JoeDirt 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 How did the whole 123 Kid storyline with Razor come about in spring/summer of 1993? Had Waltman worked his ass off with the WWF long enough as a jobber that they decided to give him a push? Was he already friends with Hall, who got him the push? How did he go from jobber to fulltime roster member? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Papacita 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 He was getting a lot of attention as the Lightning Kid in GWF prior to coming to WWF, and I think that had more to do with his push than anything else. He had only worked about 3 or 4 televised matches before he went over Razor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MillenniumMan831 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 I read/heard an interview w/ Waltman where he talked about that win over Ramon. He was so excited all day and had 1,000,000 ideas for that match. When he bumped into Razor, he started rattling them all off to which Ramon just barked something like, "How bout I just beat the shit out of you like a jobber and then you hit something cool off the ropes." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Only The Strong Survive 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 Too bad Waltman has deteriorated so much over the years. He could be so much better if he wasn't on drugs and cared enough to actual do moves right and wasn't so busy beating on Chyna. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DangerousDamon 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 Too bad Waltman has deteriorated so much over the years. He could be so much better if he wasn't on drugs and cared enough to actual do moves right and wasn't so busy beating on Chyna. Waltman can be a hell of wrestler when he has his head on straight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeDirt 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 I read/heard an interview w/ Waltman where he talked about that win over Ramon. He was so excited all day and had 1,000,000 ideas for that match. When he bumped into Razor, he started rattling them all off to which Ramon just barked something like, "How bout I just beat the shit out of you like a jobber and then you hit something cool off the ropes." That's pretty damn funny. It was a really cool little angle on RAW...after he beat Razor he had that rematch where he ran away with the money, and I know he also beat one of the Beverlys and Ted Dibiase...anyone else? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 21, 2004 How did the whole 123 Kid storyline with Razor come about in spring/summer of 1993? Had Waltman worked his ass off with the WWF long enough as a jobber that they decided to give him a push? Was he already friends with Hall, who got him the push? How did he go from jobber to fulltime roster member? He had lost several RAW matches --- changing his name every time (Cannonball Kid and Lightning Kid were two of them) --- when he just suddenly pinned Ramon clean in the ring. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Kamala 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 What was the whole point of the IRS-123 Kid match at Summerslam 93? 123 Kid was fresh off the upsets of Ted DiBiase and Razor Ramon and had his decent push and IRS wasn't particularly going anywhere, yet IRS just beat Waltman in like four minutes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 21, 2004 What was the whole point of the IRS-123 Kid match at Summerslam 93? 123 Kid was fresh off the upsets of Ted DiBiase and Razor Ramon and had his decent push and IRS wasn't particularly going anywhere, yet IRS just beat Waltman in like four minutes. Was Waltman having neck problems by that point? I honestly don't know. Maybe Vince didn't feel like he needed to be TOO high up on the card. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeDirt 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 What was the whole point of the IRS-123 Kid match at Summerslam 93? 123 Kid was fresh off the upsets of Ted DiBiase and Razor Ramon and had his decent push and IRS wasn't particularly going anywhere, yet IRS just beat Waltman in like four minutes. I think they wanted to keep him as the upset kid, so the theory was that losing here would do that for him, because he couldn't _always_ win and remain the big underdog. I don't think he was injured or anything, though, and by Survivor Series 93 he survived with Jannetty and then they won the tag titles shortly after that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cawthon777 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 He lost to Mr. Hughes and Doink the Clown in earlier Raws under different names. I think IRS beating the Kid at Summer Slam laid the foundation for the Razor / IRS feud. Since Dibiase was leaving, IRS could gain revenge for his tag partner and say he beat the Kid while Razor couldn't get the job done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustJoe2k5 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 They actually set up the I.R.S. vs. Razor Ramon feud by using another jobber in an upset, and that jobber was Justin Credible. I.R.S. came out talking about how Razor Ramon got beat by a jobber and how that would never happen to him, then Razor Ramon interfered in his match and P.J. Walker won. I believe it was also the time Razor Ramon became a face. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Report post Posted March 21, 2004 For a guy who was SO SMALL (in terms of muscle) The Kid was pushed pretty hard in 1993. Going over Ramon & Dibiase on TV, being the Survivor with Marty Jannetty in his SSeries 93 match, pinning Pierre for the tag titles clean on the 1st An. of RAW, and in mid 1994, having a kick-ass World Title Match v. Bret Hart on MNR. Then it went downhill from there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Report post Posted March 21, 2004 They actually set up the I.R.S. vs. Razor Ramon feud by using another jobber in an upset, and that jobber was Justin Credible. I.R.S. came out talking about how Razor Ramon got beat by a jobber and how that would never happen to him, then Razor Ramon interfered in his match and P.J. Walker won. I believe it was also the time Razor Ramon became a face. I'm pretty sure that happend AFTER Summerslam, which set up the Ramon/IRS feud that lasted until the RR94 blowoff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cawthon777 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 They actually set up the I.R.S. vs. Razor Ramon feud by using another jobber in an upset, and that jobber was Justin Credible. I.R.S. came out talking about how Razor Ramon got beat by a jobber and how that would never happen to him, then Razor Ramon interfered in his match and P.J. Walker won. I believe it was also the time Razor Ramon became a face. I'm pretty sure that happend AFTER Summerslam, which set up the Ramon/IRS feud that lasted until the RR94 blowoff. It did. It was after Summer Slam but a few weeks prior to Razor winning the IC title. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yankovic fan 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2004 His names in the weeks going to the upset were: Cannonball Kid vs. either Hughes or Doink Kamakaze Kid vs. the other one out of those two The Kid (in his Lightning Kid outfit, even had L. Kid on his tights) that's when he beat Razor. I THINK there was one more week in there. I remember on Mania Todd Pettengil laughing with the crew, "Now he's calling himself the 1-2-3 Kid!" and they laughed. I also remember WWF Magazine doing the "Battle of the Titans" feature on that Raw, covering both that match AND the match where Marty Jannety upset Shawn Micheals for the IC title after Mr. Perfect's interference. Great times (Not Jannety winning, just Perfect using his towel as a foreign object) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Betty Houle 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2004 For a guy who was SO SMALL (in terms of muscle) The Kid was pushed pretty hard in 1993. Going over Ramon & Dibiase on TV, being the Survivor with Marty Jannetty in his SSeries 93 match, pinning Pierre for the tag titles clean on the 1st An. of RAW, and in mid 1994, having a kick-ass World Title Match v. Bret Hart on MNR. Then it went downhill from there. No. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Report post Posted March 22, 2004 For a guy who was SO SMALL (in terms of muscle) The Kid was pushed pretty hard in 1993. Going over Ramon & Dibiase on TV, being the Survivor with Marty Jannetty in his SSeries 93 match, pinning Pierre for the tag titles clean on the 1st An. of RAW, and in mid 1994, having a kick-ass World Title Match v. Bret Hart on MNR. Then it went downhill from there. No. ^----Post Of The Year Ladies (all three of you) and Gentlemen. Exactly what is the "No" directed at? 1-2-3 Kid being shoved down everyon's throat as a legit contender? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Betty Houle 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2004 Then it went downhill from there. No. (to clarify) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JST 0 Report post Posted March 23, 2004 No. Relevant discussion at its finest, folks. I seriously dug Waltman back then. He was THE definition of an underdog. I remember marking out most on an episode of Superstars, he managed to beat Bastion Booger by countout by splashing a pitcher of water on his face then beating the count. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 23, 2004 No. Relevant discussion at its finest, folks. I seriously dug Waltman back then. He was THE definition of an underdog. I remember marking out most on an episode of Superstars, he managed to beat Bastion Booger by countout by splashing a pitcher of water on his face then beating the count. Man, I missed that? Sounds like a ***** classic. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Papacita 0 Report post Posted March 23, 2004 Then it went downhill from there. No. (to clarify) Yeah, his stint as Syxx in WCW and the first couple of years of his X-Pac run were easily more successful for Waltman than anything during his 1-2-3 Kid run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deancoles 0 Report post Posted March 23, 2004 He was doing fine until the turn on Kane, the feud could have been ended in the Cage Match at Armageddon but it dragged on for months and all his heat vanished. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Papacita 0 Report post Posted March 23, 2004 I agree that he should've remained face (he could've easily been a challenger for the World Belt, especially with HHH as Champion), but what really did his heat in was that boring tag team with Road Dogg in early 2000. It didn't help that DX were made HHH's lackeys during the McMahon-Helmsley Era. I always found it funny that in later years, people complained that X-Pac was only pushed because of his relationship with HHH when HHH's push in 99 probably did more to harm his career than anything else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Betty Houle 0 Report post Posted March 23, 2004 No. Relevant discussion at its finest, folks. Hey, all he said was "Then it went downhill from there." He didn't give me much to work with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Report post Posted March 23, 2004 OK, druing his first WWF Stint, after the summer of 94, he just hung around doing nothing, was given a lame duck tag title reign because one of the Gunns was injured for the tag tournament, and did nothing until his heel turn where Razor Ramon made him his bitch and force fed him a bottle and diapered him. Sounds like a plummet in quality of push. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Betty Houle 0 Report post Posted March 23, 2004 OK, druing his first WWF Stint, after the summer of 94, he just hung around doing nothing, was given a lame duck tag title reign because one of the Gunns was injured for the tag tournament, and did nothing until his heel turn where Razor Ramon made him his bitch and force fed him a bottle and diapered him. Sounds like a plummet in quality of push. Oops! I misunderstood your original post. Sorry! I thought it was intended as a dig at 1-2-3/X-Pac as I see a lot of them on the internet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2004 It went downhill when he hit puberity and grew the beard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Report post Posted March 25, 2004 OK, druing his first WWF Stint, after the summer of 94, he just hung around doing nothing, was given a lame duck tag title reign because one of the Gunns was injured for the tag tournament, and did nothing until his heel turn where Razor Ramon made him his bitch and force fed him a bottle and diapered him. Sounds like a plummet in quality of push. Oops! I misunderstood your original post. Sorry! I thought it was intended as a dig at 1-2-3/X-Pac as I see a lot of them on the internet. I actually liked him as Syxx and X-Pac, but by late 2000 he needed a gimmick change, and it never happend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
