The OAO NBA Playoffs/Finals Thread

[The Electrifyer 0]

Lakers in 3.

 

I can see it right now:

 

Game 1: Lakers 105, Pistons 65

 

Game 2: Lakers 97, Pistons 59

 

Game 3: Lakers 110, Pistons 55

 

Game 4: Pistons forfeit the championship

 

[Guest Seven Sins]

Hi, I'm new here and I want to express my opinion on the NBA Finals.

 

Now i know alot of you hate the Lakers because of the Lakers' Fans, Now i'm a Lakers fan but i'm not as blind as the others are. The Pistons have talent and are basically owning the Lakers so far in the series. But, you guys have to realize like a poster earlier in here said don't celebrate until the Pistons have 4 games won. 'Cause the Lakers can go and do what they did against the spurs and come back and when the next 3 games. Even though i'm a lakers fan (have been for 5 years) The Pistons deserve the title.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Fuck that noise. Detroit has plenty of opportunities to come back and win again in the near future. Hell we just might see them back in the Finals next year as well. This is LA's last chance at a championship for quite some time.

 

I'm still pulling for my Oakland Lakers to come back against the Tampa Bay Pistons.

[Damaramu 0]

I have a bad feeling about tomorrow nights game.....like LA is going to do something. Of course I don't know why I'm worried because they've only looked good in 2 of the 12 quarters played so far. Then again Jackson has had time to prepare.

Hmmm.......

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Yeah, don't count LA out for Game 4, I'd go so far as to say it's a 50 chance that they'll win it.

 

Coming into the finals, the masses have shown a remarkable amount of ignorance towards the Pistons' ability, but by that note, now that they're on top there's a bit of ignorance towards the Pistons main deficiency... inconsistency. They can play marvelous basketball for a few games then play terribly. It's happened in EVERY playoff series so far, but hasn't happened yet here... the pessimist pistons fan in me says its about due. Second up is that the Pistons tend to give up series leads, they get a little lazy when they are ahead. Again it's happened each series. Up 1-0 against MIL, they lose at home. Up 2-0 against NJ, lose the next three. Up 2-1 against Indiana, get blown out at the Palace. They play better when they're clawing back or rebounding from something, its been their one constant this whole postseason. They just like to make it harder on themselves.

 

Mind you it's all about the Pistons now. If the Lakers win it will be because of the Pistons' old habits coming back, not so much what the Lakers do.

[Steviekick 0]

Its seriously time for the Lakers abandoning the triangle. Just run around and confuse. The hell with good coaching.

 

No one's really talked about this, but I'm pretty sure Rasheed will stay in Detroit. He seems too happy there.

[Damaramu 0]

Speaking of Rasheed........Detroit has been having these terriffic offensive games with little to no offensive production from Sheed. So whenever he gets hot LA is screwed again.

[Guest Choken One]

if sheed would stop getting in foul trouble...he could be a bigger threat.

 

 

That's a good question posed...Would he say? Or does he still want new york?

 

I'd imagine if he won the title, he'd have every reason to go to NY.

 

I'm still convinced someone killed the real rasheed wallace in Atlanta somewhere.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Mind you it's all about the Pistons now. If the Lakers win it will be because of the Pistons' old habits coming back, not so much what the Lakers do.

Okay, so how exactly is that comment any more ignorant than when Laker fans say that they lost because they weren't trying?

[bobobrazil1984 0]

^ well if you can tell me what else the LAKERS can do to win that they havne't tried, other than Jesus healing Malone's injury or Rush + Walton throwing up 40 points, then I'm all ears. I suppose giving Payton more offensive freedom, but other than that I can't think of a single thing.

[Guest NaturalBornThriller4:20]

1. Didn't want to start a new Thread so I put it here.

 

2. Let's change the subject for a bit.

 

 

Isiah Thomas To Leave Houston, Hardaway, Anderson, and Norris unprotected...

 

According to a Knicks official, Isiah Thomas has told Allan Houston, Shandon Anderson, Penny Hardaway, and Moochie Norris that they were being left unprotected in the expansion draft later this month.

 

Houston, whose left knee hobbled him throughout the season and might require surgery, has a contract that will pay him $47 million over the next three years, including $17.5 million next season.

 

Hardaway and Anderson carry contracts that exceed their value. Moochie Norris has three years and $12.7 million remaining. The Knicks must also decide what to do with Cezary Trybanski, Dikembe Mutombo and Othella Harrington for the final spot - all three possessing trade value

 

 

The Charlotte Bobcats yesterday received the official list of players who will be available to them in the expansion draft on June 22 or 23.

 

National Basketball Association rules prohibit the list from being disclosed, so the expansion Bobcats, who will play next season, could not comment on the players. "We have a number of directions we can take, and over the course of the next 10 days we will thoroughly explore all of our options," Bernie Bickerstaff, the Bobcats' coach and general manager, said in a statement.

 

The Bobcats received the names of available players from every team except the Lakers and the Pistons. Those two teams will send their unprotected lists to the Bobcats within 24 hours of the conclusion of the N.B.A. finals.

 

The expectation was that most teams would try to fill the unprotected list with overpriced and underachieving players. Some of the names that leaked out yesterday from various sources indicated that that was the case.

 

One Western Conference team executive said that the Dallas Mavericks left Antoine Walker and his $14.6 million contract unprotected. Washington left Jerry Stackhouse exposed with three years and $22.5 million remaining on his contract.

 

Still, the most striking names were those not on the list. Reggie Miller, who has spent his entire career with the Indiana Pacers and who was rumored to be on the list, was not, according to an N.B.A. executive. Others who were expected to be on the list but were protected included Portland's Damon Stoudamire, who is entering the final year of his contract and will earn $15.7 million, as well as the Blazers' Dale Davis, who will earn $9 million next season.

 

One source familiar with the Knicks' plans confirmed that Allan Houston, Penny Hardaway, Shandon Anderson, Moochie Norris and Cezary Trybanski were left unprotected. The Nets left Kittles, Rodney Rogers, Alonzo Mourning and Tamar Slay unprotected, a source familiar with the Nets' plans said.

 

Still waiting to see if the 2nd one is confirmed.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

^ interesting.

 

in other news on the Isiah/NY front, I dont know if any of you watched Best Damn Sports Show period last night, but there was a segment with John Salley talking to former Bad Boys at Game 3, and he asked Isiah about the rumors of Rodman hanging around them in NY these days or soon, and Isiah gave his trademark smile and said that he'd do anything he can to help out guys and friends of his who he played with. He said some mroe stuff too I dont recall, but the implication was clear, Rodman could very well be a Knick soon (this coupled with Rodman's talk on Stern and others about him coming back to an NBA team in a big announceemnt).

[Guest Vitamin X]

Right now the series is all pointing to a championship in Motown, so we can't really say what exactly it would be that the Lakers will do to win the title if they do.

 

I don't know what the Lakers can do to play since I didn't watch most of Game 3 (I only tuned in 5 minutes till the end, saw the score and Rip IMMEDIATELY jacking the ball from Kobe and putting it up and I turned off the TV), didn't get to see Game 2 (cable was out) and saw most of Game 1.

 

From what I've seen/heard the Pistons only did what was necessary to win in Game 1, and got held off in Game 2, but there is no excuse for Game 3 for Los Angeles, I didn't see one thing that LA could have done to win.

 

I think what LA needs to do is be much more aggressive on offense and play just good enough defense to get by. LA's offense is good enough to outscore Detroit, but again that's easier said than done since Detroit has the best defense in the league. Which is why the old saying goes Defense wins championships.

 

But I think you missed my point, all the Laker fans get bashed when we say that we lost because of a lack of effort, but when you (assumingly a Detroit fan/supporter) say that if the Lakers win, it would be because of Detroit's old habits coming back and not because the Lakers did anything worthwhile to earn the championship, I think both statements are in their equal.

[Guest NaturalBornThriller4:20]

Bah, don't sign Rodman. He was good once, but he's 42 years old. We have enough dead weight as it is.

[Guest Seven Sins]

Who in their right mind would want Rodman? Atleast as a Player anyway? He is way past his prime.

[Damaramu 0]

Yeah that's what I don't get. Why do you want an old man? I'm not even thinking of the potential problems with his attitude. I'm thinking about how old he is. He'd be useless unless he could play like he did when he was 30! And I saw clips of his ABA games......he's slow and lazy.

 

How long did he play for LA and when was that? I remember him being there for a bit and then not coming to LA and Jackson being like "Ok I have enough good players. Get the hell out."

[Damaramu 0]

If LA is going to win one in Detroit then it's got to be tomorrow night. They can maybe catch Detroit off guard and cocky and take it to them. I think that would be the most likely scenario with LA if they win one in Detroit. But I don't think Larry Brown would allow there heads to get to big.

Thing is unless LA dominates and blows them out in a Detroit win then I really am not worried if the series goes to Detroit b/c Detroit has already proven that Staples doesn't scare them.

 

And I think it'd be impossible for LA to beat Detroit 2 games in a row unless Jackson comes up with a master plan.....which I fear happening.

[godthedog 0]

fear it. LA is just as dangerous as detroit on the road, and i think it's fair to say that anything can still happen.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Who in their right mind would want Rodman? Atleast as a Player anyway? He is way past his prime.

Evidently Chicago, because at NBA.com, though his last team was the Mavericks, he's listed as a Bull.

[CanadianChris 0]

Magic's not happy...

 

EAST LANSING, Mich. -- Magic Johnson doesn't like what he sees from the Los Angeles Lakers, and he decided to speak up about it Saturday.

 

"I think the Lakers had a mind-set that was disrespectful to the Pistons. They thought it was going to be easy. That is not the case," Johnson said. "Unless they come out and play very hard, with the same level of intensity as the Pistons, this series will be over."

 

Johnson, a vice president and part-owner of the Lakers, was not displaying his trademark grin as he exited The Palace on Thursday night following the Lakers' 20-point loss in Game 3.

 

At a news conference to promote his basketball camp, Johnson heavily criticized the Lakers.

 

"I am angry. You have to compete. And we're not competing," he said. "You can just see the Lakers' frustration. No one is welcoming anyone to the bench. Guys are sitting there, wandering off into the crowd, defeated. We've got to get that look off our faces and play basketball the way it's supposed to be played. If not, the series won't get back to Los Angeles."

 

The series resumes Sunday night with the Detroit Pistons leading the best-of-seven series 2-1.

 

"I have eight rings and I want nine," Johnson said. "My anger is that we haven't competed in this series. I don't know what's going on. I don't know what the mind-set is. But this is just unacceptable."

 

Johnson also singled out Karl Malone and Gary Payton for criticism.

 

Malone had an altercation with a heckler prior to Game 3.

 

"You don't put your finger in a fan's face. That's unacceptable. Lakers don't do that," Johnson said of Malone, who claimed the heckler spat on him. "I don't care what he said. He has been to two Finals. I've been to nine. Do you think the Celtics fans didn't say things I didn't like?

 

Payton has been outplayed by Detroit's Chauncey Billups.

 

"Gary Payton is 35 years old and isn't the same Gary Payton he was 10 years ago. He has to accept that," Johnson said. "Gary Payton has had a lot of great, wide-open looks and hasn't knocked them down. That doesn't change if you're in the triangle or a 1-4 or what. Wide-open looks are wide-open looks. He shot an airball just the other day, wide-open. Hell, nobody was 10 feet from him.

 

"He got it, caught it, wide-open, airball. You've got to make that shot. You've got to make plays. Gary's problem isn't on offense. It's on defense. Billups is using him up."

 

Nothing in there I disagree with.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Johnson also singled out Karl Malone and Gary Payton for criticism.

 

Malone had an altercation with a heckler prior to Game 3.

 

"Fuck Karl Malone," Johnson said of Malone, who claimed the heckler spat on him. "I don't care what he said. He has been to two Finals. I've been to nine. Do you think the Celtics fans didn't say things I didn't like?

 

I agree with Magic on this one.

[Guest OraleHolmes]

That's what I always loved about guys like Bird, Magic, Jordan, I. Thomas and other basketball players of yesteryear. They always competed and never disrespected the opposition. They played with heart, with passion, with hunger, with intelligence and were willing to sacrifice for the betterment of the team. They weren't about the money, the endorsements or the adulation; they epitomized the game of basketball in its most natural form. I miss the old school days.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Especially Michael Jordan. All he wanted to do was play ball, drink Gatorade, eat Wheaties and wear his Air Jordans.

[iggymcfly 0]

Geez, why can't anyone show some respect for the Lakers. They go into the Finals as a huge favorite, with no one thinking there's any way that they'll lose. Then, they build the Pistons up as a credible threat, sell for them incredibly well, and put them over with NBA fans all over the world. And what do we hear? Not "Oh what great champions they are to make it exciting for the fans." Not "What team players they are, they really get what David Stern's preaching." Just, "Oh, Bird and Magic and Jordan would have squashed the Pistons. I miss the old days of squash matches."

 

What a bunch of ingrates.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

To really give the Pistons the rub maybe Derek Fisher and Kobe will cry again this year.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Noone is showing respect for the Lakers because they don't deserve any yet, except for the overtime winner in Game 2. If they had come out of that game with any kind of momentum and at least kept it competitive in Game 3, maybe this would be a better series.

 

I think it's almost impossible for the Pistons NOT to be a little cocky right now, but they have to keep it in check if they don't want to get surprised. LA really has their backs against the wall if they don't win on Sunday, they face elimination on the road, and that is CERTAINLY not a situation they want to get into.

 

On the flipside, LA's only chance to win the championship is to finish the job off in Los Angeles, which is what they'd like anyways. Take that for what it's worth.

[Damaramu 0]

The sad thing about iggmcfly is that I can feel that he really does believew that LA is just playing bad on purpose to make it a good series so that everyone can be like "Oh man look at this! Detroit's going to win!" and then BOOM LA comes out of nowhere for the win. That's not what's happening but I feel you really believe that it is. Detroit's better....plain and simple.

Oh and if LA is to win any game in Detroit then it's tomorrow night that they have to win. Also I think if Game 6 is in LA as a 3-2 series with LA on the verge of being eliminated that they will be eliminated. Detroit can get the job done in LA no problem.

[Art Sandusky 0]

For some reason, I thought Game 4 was tonight, I tuned in to ABC excitedly and was greeted by Field of Dreams. Yeesh, not even the right sport. I was very angry with myself.

[Guest OraleHolmes]

Wow, I can't believe this, guys. This sounds VERY interesting and can drastically change the complexion of this series. Check out this article from LATimes.com:

 

NBA FINALS | LAKERS VS. DETROIT

Change of the Season?

Veterans of title teams ask Jackson in private meeting to use them together

 

 

By Tim Brown, Times Staff Writer

 

 

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. — Phil Jackson stood in a dingy bathroom at the Palace, the Lakers in three games of the NBA Finals fortunate to win one, and he listened to the proposal that could change the course of a season, perhaps a career.

 

Before him, the five Lakers who remained from their three championships together — Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher and Devean George — asked for their season back.

 

Their plea: Bench an ailing Karl Malone, bench an ineffective Gary Payton and play those five together in tonight's Game 4 against the Detroit Pistons, Fox at power forward, Fisher at point guard.

 

Fifteen rings among them and their next title hopes fading against the relentless Pistons, they had summoned Jackson away from their teammates, away from the glare of the Finals, and outlined their plan. O'Neal stood beside Bryant, the two of them apparently in agreement.

 

When they were done, Jackson told them he would think about it. Then, in a team meeting before the Lakers practiced on Saturday afternoon, Jackson told the rest of the Lakers about the meeting and what he was considering.

 

An hour later, Jackson leaned against a cinder-block wall and recounted the bathroom stall summit. His offense fractured by the Piston defense, the Lakers had scored 68 points in Game 3, the triangle burdened by injury and misreads. Payton appeared more disconnected than ever and Malone was hampered by another knee ligament injury.

 

The answer, Jackson was reminded, might be to reach back to the three-peat, to summon the players and the execution that made them champions before. And Jackson said maybe.

 

"They harassed me, took me in the toilet to have a private conference," he said. "They're asking for more of an opportunity to perform the wizardry of the triangle under the auspices of their talent. They're afraid guys don't have the kind of experience with it to operate under this kind of pressure."

 

Jackson and his coaching staff had made dramatic changes to the offense in earlier series against the San Antonio Spurs and Minnesota Timberwolves. They initiated the offense more through pick-and-rolls, giving triangle rookies Payton and Malone roles that were more familiar.

 

The Pistons have stopped nearly everything, however. Bryant scored off some pick-and-rolls in overtime of Game 2, but outside of that the Lakers often have looked old and slow, or indecisive. In a 20-point Game 3 loss, Bryant often appeared frustrated by his teammates' offensive decisions, the ball coming to him in double-teams and moving away from him when he'd posted the smaller Lindsey Hunter.

 

Now, with the series in jeopardy, they've asked Jackson for a chance.

 

"I said I'd consider it," Jackson said. "I think it puts us in a deficit position for rebounding, for one thing. But I appreciate their initiative. I have to weigh the benefits of that."

 

Not only hasn't Fox played a lot of power forward, he hasn't played much of anything lately. A series of injuries — first to his elbow, then his thumb and now in his neck and shoulder — have kept him off the floor for long periods.

 

A lineup change, getting the five players trained in the intricacies of the offense on the court together, would necessitate Fox defending Rasheed Wallace or Ben Wallace, or at least sharing them with O'Neal. Jackson also could start Slava Medvedenko at power forward and run Fox in at small forward.

 

Fox said Saturday that his lack of playing time was partly a result of his recent injury and partly because Jackson simply had not called on him. Asked about playing power forward, he smiled and pointed to George.

 

"I'm trying to talk Devean into power forward," he said.

 

Fisher and Fox long have toiled on the periphery of an offense called three-sided but built around two — O'Neal and Bryant. Except O'Neal had only 14 points in Game 3 and Bryant 11. In three games, the Lakers are averaging 80.7 points, shooting 41.4% and going to the free-throw line about 10 fewer times a game than they did in the regular season.

 

"We've got to start looking for execution, that's all," Fox said.

 

Even without the offensive lapses, Jackson said he'd have to think about Malone's role, given the injury that limits so much of what he does.

 

"What I've told him is we like what he's doing with Rasheed Wallace," Jackson said. "He's played him well enough so that he has not become a big factor in this series…. [but] his ability to rebound and all of those things, we do need to move forward. As he goes through the series and he improves, he has to make that call and help us out. It's a consideration."

 

Benching the prickly Payton, of course, could bring a new set of problems. He has been unhappy about his role almost from training camp and has seethed when Fisher played the critical minutes of fourth quarters.

 

At the end of a season in which the Lakers have learned to love him all over again, however, Fisher has proven himself to be at least as strong defensively as Payton and is, of course, a better jump shooter. He also knows the offense, having run it among the superstars for five years.

 

"I've definitely shown up before and even at times in this postseason," Fisher said. "If we execute properly, that third or fourth [scorer] just kind of automatically appears…. When you're playing against a good defensive team, then you have to be willing to sustain your offensive execution even more and we failed to do that."

 

So, they've asked for more. If they lose, they'll have lost at their own game. If not, then they'll have done it again, together again.

 

So Jackson went to bed Saturday night weighing one of the crucial decisions in a coaching career that has brought thousands of them, and nine NBA championships, and could end with one final choice, either way.

 

Final Examination

 

Starters and their scoring averages in the NBA Finals in the Lakers' three titles under Phil Jackson: 2000 VS. INDIANA

Forward A.C. Green 5.0

Forward Glen Rice 11.5

Center Shaquille O'Neal 38.0

Guard Kobe Bryant 15.6

Guard Ron Harper 10.8

2001 VS. PHILADELPHIA

Forward Horace Grant 5.2

Forward Rick Fox 9.8

Center Shaquille O'Neal 33.0

Guard Kobe Bryant 24.6

Guard Derek Fisher 9.8

2002 VS. NEW JERSEY

Forward Robert Horry 8.0

Forward Rick Fox 9.8

Center Shaquille O'Neal 36.3

Guard Kobe Bryant 26.8

Guard Derek Fisher 12.8

NOTE — O'Neal and Bryant are the only Lakers averaging more then 10 points a game against Detroit.

[alfdogg 0]

Johnson also singled out Karl Malone and Gary Payton for criticism.

 

Malone had an altercation with a heckler prior to Game 3.

 

"Fuck Karl Malone," Johnson said of Malone, who claimed the heckler spat on him. "I don't care what he said. He has been to two Finals. I've been to nine. Do you think the Celtics fans didn't say things I didn't like?

 

I agree with Magic on this one.

:lol: :lol:

 

Jesus Christ, are you trying to give me a hernia?

 

Also, I read in the Indy Star that Slava may get a start.

 

And I'm being serious, I'm not just saying that to set off Vitamin X.