The OAO NBA Playoffs/Finals Thread

[Guest Choken One]

He was right to an extent...Darko won't manifest until two years from now and at the time the Pistons didn't have 'Sheed and Rip and Tayshun still hadn't figured out who they were yet.

 

It's just another sign of proof that Brown is one of the greatest coaches ever.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

Well first and foremost, Congrats to the 2004 World Champions, The Detroit Pistons. The Pistons were the better team, they were more hungry than the Lakers, they didn't suffer any key injuries, and proved that a good defense will win you a championship over the supposed better offense/better players. Despite the Pistons dominating all four wins and only losing Game 2 (which they could have easily won), this still has to be considered one of the Greatest upsets in NBA history. I mean if you went through all the national media predictions, most of them had the Lakers winning, and in many cases winning badly. I think only one or two ESPN writers/personalities picked the Pistons. I even thought the Lakers would win in 6, but I did think it was going to be a dog fight. I am definately not too suprised by the Pistons championship victory. And as I watched the series a few things became more and more obvious why the Pistons were going to win.

 

1. Payton - His moniker the Glove was totally smashed. He couldn't stop Billups at all, as Billups torched him multiple times. His attitude became more and more a distraction. His offense was pretty offensive. And in Game 5, his defense was better, but in crunch time, Rip basically was too hard for him to guard, as Rip was losing him multiple times. Payton came to win a ring, but he couldn't accept a lessor role in the end. He will be gone.

 

2. Kobe - Game 2, Kobe looked to have saved the Lakers from a disasterous 0-2 start. After his game tying shot to send the game into OT, Kobe began to get more and more comparisons to Michael. And then the next 3 games happened. Kobe was shut down in Game 3, as Teyshawn Prince has done one of the best defensive jobs against Kobe I have ever seen. And then Game 4 happened and Kobe's selfishness really derailed any chance the Laker's might have had against the Pistons. Shaq was on fire, and when he is going, you are best to get him the ball. And a player more worried about winning would have gotten him the ball. Kobe instead threw up many bad shots, and the Lakers lost by 8. And Kobe lost his composure as well in this game, which I have rarely seen him done. And in Game 5, despite leading the team in scoring, he shot 7-21 from the field. My biggest knock against Kobe is that he sometimes takes way too many bad shots, which I will admit have a tendency to go in, but in this series Kobe was out defended, and he took many forced shots that did not find their mark in this series.

 

Now Kobe is one of the best current players in the NBA. If his trial goes his way, and he goes onto a long career, I feel that he will be in the Hall of Fame. He has accomplished more in his first 6 seasons than most players do in their whole careers. But, for now, I still feel Michael is the best player I have ever seen in my lifetime. And the biggest reason, which Kobe needs to learn in order to be elevated to his Jordon-level, is that Michael made his teammates around him play better. Michael got his teammates involved. And Michael would have no problem setting up the last shot for his teammates, as he did with Paxon in the 93 finals and Steve Kerr in the 97 Finals. Kobe still ball hogs too much, which is fine when he is on fire and draining every thing in sight. But in this series when he was struggling in all four losses, Kobe instead of adjusting, and maybe work on getting more assists (I do feel Kobe is a great passer, which he doesn't utilize as much as he could). His assists for each game goes as following: 4,7,5,2,4. Doesn't scream "Making Teammates Better" Does it? But Kobe is not the main reason for the Lakers losing. But I do see Kobe not returning next season, as this series really showed that Kobe and Shaq really hate each other. This hate was there, but usually they could bury it so that it didn't affect them in their 3 year championship run. Well this year it did hurt the Lakers, especially in Game 4. I think one or the other will be in a different uniform next season.

 

Lack of supporting cast for Kobe and Shaq - Except for Game 2, where Luke had 8 assists, every other Game it was obvious that besides the big two, there were no other players the Lakers could rely on. It was a telling sign as Kobe and Shaq would have two high scoring games, and the rest would not break double digits. The Pistons defense did a great job shutting every one else in this series. In the Lakers three championships, they would always get a third teammate to contribute, and this would be enough to win. This year the Lakers did not get help from other teammates, who got shut down by the Pistons. And the third player who might have been the missing piece, was injured in his knee to the point where he couldn't move, and this proved to be another factor.

 

Injuries to Malone and Fisher - Fisher might not be the quickest player, but he gives you all he has, and in years past, he would out hussle and play tough defense. With his injury, he became less effective, to the point that he couldn't stop Billups along with Payton. Malone's injury was even more hurtfull. Now I am not the biggest Malone fan out there, but this year he showed why he is future Hall of Famer. He never complained about being option 3. He was supportive of his teammates. He played his heart out, and he really wanted to win that ring. Unfortunately, I don't think his knee fully healed, and as the playoffs wore on, so did his knee injury. He got to the point that he could barely move at all, nor defend at all. And he couldn't even play in Game 5. Malone used to never get hurt. He was a paragon of physical fitness, and he never missed games due to injuries. Well this season his knees finally aged, quickly, so that this 40 year old freak, finally began to show his age. And that is a shame, because Malone really wanted to win it all, and he acted like a true professional, unlike Payton. I am thinking Malone might be done with his career, which was a great one, nothing to be ashamed about at all.

 

Phil got outcoached by Brown - I think Phil is a great coach. It does take a good coach to manage multiple egos of two of the most dominant players in the league. He does have a knack of getting his stars to over achieve. You don't win 9 rings by being a slacker. But, I do feel Brown is the better coach and this year he showed why. The Lakers were so used to teams playing hack-a-Shaq and double teamming, that when they finally played a team which didn't play that way, it threw the Lakers way off, and that is why the Pistons won Game 1, and set the tone for the rest of the series. And throughout the series, Brown kept throwing new game plan, after new game plan. The only real questionable coaching move was not fouling Shaq in the last 10 seconds of Game 2, but that prove to be a moot point. The Pistons had a great game plan, the Lakers didn't. Besides Game 2, the Lakers looked poorly coached. Phil didn't seem to make much adjustments in this series. And Phil was so used to always being up, as well as the Lakers, that when they fell behind they didn't know how to react. The Lakers were getting out played by the Pistons, and Phil didn't really do anything. His style is to allow his players to make the changes themselves, which is fine when they are winning, but in this case they were getting outplayed and Phil never really came up with a plan to counteract this. This was not one of Phil's better coaching jobs this season, as he never really got the Lakers on the same page. I am suprised the Lakers made it as far as they did, becuase this series showed how this team, despite having two of the best NBA players, really never played like a team and when this "team" played the better team, they really did not have a chance. And the LA era for Phil more than likely comes to an end.

 

And Finally, Shaq did not get the ball enough - Plain and simple, Shaq did not get enough shots. Now Shaq did face the toughest defense in the finals he has faced since his Magic lost to the Rockets, but as usual, the Pistons only could slow him down. But in many of the games, Shaq did not get the ball enough, and in cases like Game 4, where 4 made shots by Shaq might have at least saved the Lakers until Game 6, instead the game plan involved keeping the ball away from Shaq. Part of this was that Kobe took way to many bad shots, instead of giving it up to Shaq. The other Lakers are guilty of this as well. Shaq, despite beginning to lose some of his physical talent, is still the best center in the league. If he gets the ball down near the basket, it usually ends with a dunk. Part of the reason of Shaq's lack of productivity is attested to some great defense, which pushed Shaq out further so that he took a lower percentage shot. But there were many times Shaq had better postion and he was not the number one option. The more Shaq shoots, the higher his point total. When he is not getting the opportunity to shoot, you just saw what happened. This can be also attested to the lack of game plan. Shaq still was making the most of what was given, but he was not given as much as should have been. Phil didn't make adjustments to play to the strengths of Shaq, as it was obvious that the Lakers really looked like the deer-caught-in-the-headlights.

 

But the main reason for the Pistons win was because the Pistons were the better team plain and simple. The Lakers did not take the Pistons serious at all. They assumed that this would be another team that would roll over and play dead. Well the Pistons came at them, showed no fear, and had a ever-changing game plan. I know Billups got the MVP, but this is a year the whole team could have won it. They had hero for every game. This is a fine example of temwork and players working together for the greater good, even if it means less minutes and stats. The Piston's defense has to be considered one of the greatest of all time. And with the Pistons returning a majority of their players, they will be a favorite next year, which is the first time in a long while an East team will be in the talks as Pre-Season favorites to win it all, not since the Bulls at least. So I was hoping for a 7 game series, but I am happy for the Pistons. Now I can get back to being a Warriors and Kings fan once again.

[Damaramu 0]

I don't really care about who Karl Malone poked, (like it's a big fucking deal), but it's really sickening to look at ESPN.com and see every single article about how great the Pistons were and why didn't they know they'd win the series, Uh, newsflash. The series is STILL GOING ON. I'm gonna have to go to work in a little bit, so I won't watch the game until late but I want to make my prediction now so everyone can reference it later.

 

The Los Angeles Lakers will win Game 5 tonight, Game 6 on Thursday, and then Game 7 on Sunday to once again become NBA champions. If the Pistons have any minute chance of winning the series, it would be in Game 6, where the Lakers could theoretically suffer a letdown, but that's not what will happen.

 

The Lakers will come back and win the series in seven games.

This needs to be quoted again.......AHAHAHAHAHA!

 

I just got back from the bar. I watched the game. We went nuts the whole game and the whole bar was nuts. There was one jackass in a Lakers jersey there and he left at the end of the 3rd.

The Lakers didn't just get beat they got there asses whipped and handed to them. Had Larry not removed his starters then LA would've lost by 30! Fucking great! What an ass whipping!

I wonder how the Lakers feel about Larry putting his bench in against them and then basically running practice!? HAHAHAHAHA!

It's always a good day when The Lakers lose! I partied all night! WHOOO! FUCK THE LAKERS! GO PISTONS!

[The Czech Republic 0]

The Lakers will come back and win the series in seven games.

This needs to be quoted again.......AHAHAHAHAHA!

Yep. So much for his bold prediction. (Did he intend that?)

[A Happy Medium 0]

Tonight was very beautiful. The right team came out on top. The losers...lossed in a humiliating fashion.

 

There were no conspiracies, the Lakers did not show up for eighty percent of the series. The Pistons ran them off the court.

 

So yeah, the Lakers are over.

[King Kamala 0]

What happenes to the Lakers next year? My very early prediction (This will change), Kobe leaves (Either The Clippers or Memphis), Malone retires, and Payton re-signs (Where else will he go). The Lakers make the playoffs for the next two or three years, but don't get past the 2nd round. Or at least that's what I'd like to happen.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Wow. What an asskicking. I'll admit I had written the finals off, too, but I happily eat my foot. The better team won in grand fashion.

[Black Lushus 0]

am i the only one that sees the amusing stuff in this series and not just the basketball itself?

 

Darko was a joke in clean up duty...a BADLY missed shot, 2 BADLY missed freethrow, he got the ball stolen like the kid that gets picked last in PE...either he wasn't trying (which could be the case but would be dumb considering you want to make an impression) or this kid really sucks the dong...

 

notice Tolbert was wearing a much better suit tonight...

[alfdogg 0]

I'm not going to partake in the Laker mocking, other than this one thing:

 

 

Discuss.

[The Electrifyer 0]

Who is the third one from the right? Kenny Smith or something?

[Damaramu 0]

Where's CanadianChris? His avatar says "#15 coming up." Sorry pal........BUT YOU DIDN'T GET 15!!!!!!! HAHAHA! I LOVE IT! I LOVE THE LAKERS LOSING! WHOO!

 

Man the game's been over for about 12 hours and I'm still pumped! HAHA!

[Youth N Asia 0]

In case I didn't stress this enough...FUCK PHIL JACKSON!

[The Electrifyer 0]

Fuck Payton too for that hit right in the face on Richard Hamilton.

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

Congrats to the Pistons on winning the NBA title. They had the best team and the best coach and they deserved to win. They beat the Lakers so badly that the only questioned left unanswered after the series was: How the hell did Larry Brown end up with such a young and beautiful wife?

 

I just knew that the basketball gods were not going to allow the Lakers to win the NBA Championship. Living in L.A. and seeing and reading about this dysfunctional team all season, I never understood how anyone could cheer and root for this team to win. Them winning would have been a disgrace to all team sports.

[Damaramu 0]

How about Ben Wallace? If I had to pick a center other than Shaq I'd take Ben. Hell I'd take him over Shaq probably!

He's only like 6'9" but he's fucking strong as hell and his vertical leap is just absurd! Those dunks he was making were amazing. And he looked like a gorilla hanging off the rim..hehe.

[Youth N Asia 0]

Ben is just amazing to watch. He really restored my interest in this team. He appears to steal and block the ball with such easy. He can just come out of nowhere and dominate a play. 22 friggin rebound last night. He's always good for 8 points, and it's no uncommon for him to bust out 15-20.

[Damaramu 0]

So everyone.....what do you think?

Who has the best chance to win the title next year?

The Pistons with everyone back?

A healthy T-Wolves?

A revigorated Spurs?

 

I know one thing. After this year The Western conference better learn defense or they'll get eaten for lunch.

[lomasmoney 0]

All I know is that my hometown team just won it again.... and the city of Detroit is still standing. it was a sight to see last night in Detroit with all the people celebrating the Pistons winning with a decent amount of class. It's just so awesome because the Pistons are certainly a team that fits their city. They come out and they out work you at both ends of the floor and they never quit. Wow, I just can't believe we just pulled off maybe the biggest upset in NBA finals history

[Brett Favre 0]

Anybody see the movie "A Christmas Story"? Well remember the scene where that kid Ralph got so upset that he just beat the shit out of the bully? That's what this was. The Pistons (Ralph) just got sick of all the crap the media was throwing out (got sick of all the hype and fear this bully was getting) and just took it to him. The Lakers (Bully) couldn't do shit about it (the bully just cried and took the beating), and lost.

[KingPK 0]

Hey wait, Chauncey Billups was MVP?

 

And remembering Rick Pitino's tenure as Celtics Coach/GM gets THAT MUCH MORE aggrivating.

Edited June 16, 2004 by Kingpk

[alfdogg 0]

Thank you for taking Doc Rivers out of the booth, btw.

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

Hey wait, Chauncey Billups was MVP?

 

And remembering Rick Pitino's tenure as Celtics Coach/GM gets THAT MUCH MORE aggrivating.

If I remember correctly, Pitino had Wallace at a training camp too... and Wallace left because Pitino tried to make him into a shooting guard.

[The Electrifyer 0]

If anyone should be aggrivated, it should be the Wizards. They had Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Rip Hamilton at one time or another.

[alfdogg 0]

I do remember them at halftime of one of the games saying Wallace was at a Celtics training camp. They didn't say why he didn't get on though.

[Black Lushus 0]

i just wanted to say that Pacer Fans' quote that he stole from apparently some dumbass poster is the best thing i've read all day...

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

I do remember them at halftime of one of the games saying Wallace was at a Celtics training camp.  They didn't say why he didn't get on though.

I first read it in an interview a couple of years ago, after Wallace got his first DPOY. He also confessed in that interview that he's closer to 6'6" than his "program" height of 6'9".

[The Electrifyer 0]

6'9'' is probably his height with his afro.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Is there anything here that I can say other than congrautlations Detroit?

 

You guys DO realize there is such a thing as being a sore winner, right? Next time the Lakers win the championship... Which granted may not be for many years to come now.... I'm going to gloat just that much more for all of you. They will be back.

 

I got to thinking last night... I don't think the problem in LA is between Shaq and Kobe... It's between Kobe and Jackson. I think Kobe will stay in LA, Memphis is a total idiot choice, and there's nowhere else in the league I think that'll make him as happy or treat him as much as a star as in LA. I think Jackson, Malone, and Payton all retire after this season. If they don't retire, they get released. I was really down for a bit last night till I realized a couple things...

 

1. Let the city of Detroit celebrate their championship. Not only did they earn it, but they've got nothing else in their pathetic city to celebrate for. I'll look forward to Green Bay sweeping the Lions this year, especially now.

 

2. The Lakers might not be totally gone, I think it really depends on this offseason. I don't remember keeping tabs on what happened in the last offseason, but other than Horry and Rice, who have the Lakers lost from their threepeat? If Malone and Payton are gone, and Kobe and Shaq stay, it's difficult to imagine they'd still be out of contention especially since it seems Jackson's lost his touch as a coach. But will his replacement be any good? I guess time will tell.

 

3. Throughout the course of 4 losses and only 1 win in the Finals, I was still not settled on who the more dominant team was. Sure Detroit had two blowout wins, but the other two were easily close games that LA could have feasibly won. The difference? Heart, hustle, determination, and damn good coaching. Last night it seemed like LA was so concentrated on NOT getting fouled that they seemingly forgot how to play offense and defense, and failed at all three.

 

4. Early favorites for Conference Finals next year... Minnesota vs. San Antonio in the West and Detroit vs. Miami in the East. Sacramento and Indiana's windows of opportunities I think are behind them, unless Artest and O'Neal get more support besides Miller in Indy.

 

After this huge letdown at the end of an NBA season I found myself getting into more and more as it went on, all I can say right now is..

 

 

 

 

ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL?!??!?!

[Guest Seven Sins]

So everyone.....what do you think?

Who has the best chance to win the title next year?

The Pistons with everyone back?

A healthy T-Wolves?

A revigorated Spurs?

 

I know one thing. After this year The Western conference better learn defense or they'll get eaten for lunch.

Pistons/ T-wolves next year for the NBA Finals Pistons repeat.

[The Czech Republic 0]

6'9'' is probably his height with his afro.

So basically he's Fletch