Another Ric Flair interview

[Guest JMA]

Wrestling Legend Ric Flair recently took time out his busy schedule to talk to us. Here is what he had to say:

 

What made you decide to train for a career in pro wrestling and what was Verne Gagne like as a trainer?

 

In 1972. Because I was living with the fellow who was training for the '72 Olympic games called Ken Patera, He had already made a deal with Verne Gagne who sponsored him in his training period to become a professional wrestler, and he and I became very close friends. Verne Gagne was the ultimate professional, as a trainer, very committed promoter / wrestler to the sport of professional wrestling, he had been an Olympic wrestler himself in 1948, a great guy to be involved with. I was very fortunate to start out with him.

 

 

Are there any things that you learnt from him, that you will take on when you train other people?

 

I don't think I really absorbed one thing, at that point in time I was just learning my craft. The thing he really instilled, was work ethic and commitment.

 

 

When you broke your back in a plane crash in 1975, did you start thinking about a career away from wrestling or was a return to the ring always your main objective?

 

I was told that they didn't know if I would get back in the ring. Sports medicine was not nearly as sophisticated as it is now so, the answer was time will tell. It did heal and it didn't become an issue (knock on wood) and hasn't so far.

 

 

Do you think coming back from an injury has changed you as a person?

 

No I was young then you don't really think about the consequences on making a career as citizens. I was focused and determined to be a wrestler. I don't think back then I would have accepted no for an answer.

 

What was it like to win your first world title from Dusty Rhodes in 1981?

 

That was an awesome feeling; it was the epitome of what I wanted to be then in wrestling. That particular evening was really not a great night for me because I was in Kansas City and either Dusty or myself were very well received in that town, not well known. It was a political deal! Bob Geigel was the president of NWA . I couldn't really tell anyone about the fact that I was going to win because that was the nature of the business. The promoter that sponsored me was there, the guy that worked with him, my mum and dad came from Minneapolis, and it was a relatively quite night, with no fanfare there really. That particular night was not over the top for me, it was a nice feeling afterwards but with so many politics going on, at that point in time-it really was not the most rewarding feeling I have ever had, but yeah it was an important win for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What was it like when you first wrestled in front of your parents?

 

They liked wrestling but they never watched it on TV. They respected what I accomplished but they never lived and died for it, or watched it every day.

 

 

When you lost that title you then won it back from Harley Race-did you fight a different sort of fight against Harley Race than you did against Dusty Rhodes?

 

That was a big night in my back yard. It was built up for months in advance, a huge night, our first Starrcade, it was billed as a "Flair for the Gold" and Dusty Rhodes had put together a phenomenal promotional scheme to make it work and it did. That was one of those nights that is over the top in terms of memory and feeling. I knowing that I had achieved something big.

 

 

After that your success was huge. Did you have the confidence at that stage to know that you could go all the way?

 

Winning it the second time told me I had the ability to go as far as I wanted to go. Winning it the second time meant I wasn't a short-term success.

 

 

Whose idea was it to form the Four Horsemen and who chose the members?

 

It was Arn Anderson's idea. It was just four guys who got along great and it was a pretty cool concept. We actually were together before we had a name, and then Arn came up with the name one day. The best combination was Arn, Barry Windham Terry Blanchard and myself. Ole was very good he was the original, but he was at the stage of his career where his heart wasn't in the wrestling. He was a great wrestler and a great part of the history of the Four Horsemen.

 

 

In 1989 you had 3 sensational world title matches with Ricky Steamboat at the Chi-Town Rumble, Clash of the Champions 6 and Music City Showdown - which would you consider to be the best of the 3?

 

I couldn't say. I don't think I ever had a bad one with him. He was the best I ever wrestled against. A phenomenal performer. We had great chemistry and a lot of respect for each other and that good guy bad guy thing worked really well, it was awesome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you prefer being a heel or a face?

 

I prefer being a bad guy. Why would you say heel or face? Are you a wrestler? You're not so why would you use that terminology?

 

 

Is that the wrong terminology? It's a question from a fan actually.

 

Well fans who use terms like that I have no respect for, because they're not wrestlers. That's a wrestlers terminology. See that's inside talk - I don't like outsiders using inside talk - I have no respect for it whatsoever. Everybody wants to think that they're a wrestler. The guy who wrote my book the first time, I'd go on record as saying is a *%$^£&$ idiot - it had to be re-written. He took everything I said and wrote it like he was on the inside. He will go down in history and I will make sure he does, as the biggest idiot ever be given an opportunity and completely ^%$& it up, 'cos he talked like he was on the inside. You know fans want to talk to us using our terminology and it's a lot of our guys faults, cos they want to talk to the fans and get their opinions. They want to talk to them like they're on the inside. So that's why I'm asking you why you said that, but it's ok, you're asking me questions the fans have asked. I do have a lot of respect for the fans but I don't like the fans who think they can talk like they're on the inside, cos they're not. We've got too many guys in our businesses that rely on the opinion of some fan who thinks he's smart - it's a real issue for me.

 

Has that been a problem throughout the industry then, people who don't know what they're talking about having too much influence?

 

We have a lot of people who think that the end result of what we do lives and breaths on what the Internet thinks is right. I mean that would be like me trying to write an article on Mercedes Benz. Do I like four doors? Yeah, but do I really know anything about it? No. I wouldn't know anything about the design of a Mercedes Benz from the inside. I could use the terminology but I wouldn't know anything about it. Dave Melzer and Mark Madden are the only guys I've ever thought who were non-wrestlers who had the knowledge enough and the overall perspective of our business to talk like they were on the inside and use the terminology.

 

 

Had you ever thought about joining WWE before you did in 1991?

 

It was in my mind but nothing I ever thought would happen. Jim Herd is the total reason I left. He did a lot to make we want to leave-things to this day, I'm not angry about but I can certainly recollect, and I've written a lot about him in my book. He is a good example of a guy who came along and thought he was on the inside, and was so far on the outside, which is so far from the truth. He had a lot to do with the destruction and bankruptcy of the company 10 years before it did bankrupt. He will go down as the biggest idiot of all time.

 

 

On entering WWE you had with you the world title from WCW - how did that come about?

 

That came about over $25,000. When the NWA was in existence it was controlled by a board of directors who ran the NWA. Whoever the champion was, had to put up a $25,000 bond. It was a statement to say that the champion wouldn't leave with the belt. I put up a bond for 25 grand and when I asked for my money back Herd said &%$£ you and the belt. I said it's not &%$£ me its &%$£ you - watch where the belt is next Monday. I called Vince and I said I'll come there as the champion if you want me to be. All over a lousy 25 grand. A multi million pound contract and, and ultimately when I came back they gave me the 25 grand plus interest. That's how ignorant Herd was - he was so ignorant it was embarrassing, and he knew so little about anything. I said to him, I'll give you three months, and guess what, ninety days later he was gone! I sent the belt to WWE and Bobby Heenan took it out on TV the next week. As soon as WCW realised the damage they filed a lawsuit to have me send back the belt. All over 25 grand!!! I was really hurt by all what happened especially after I'd been there so long

 

 

With Hulk Hogan and yourself now in WWE many fans thought the dream match they had hope for would happen. Why did a high profile feud between the 2 of you never happen in WWE?

 

I don't know for sure but there were political issues and things going on with the company. That was the original game plan and I've heard a number of reasons why it didn't happen but it was nothing I was too upset about. I enjoyed my year and a half at WWE then I went back and carried on where I left off at WCW. While I was there the title went from Piper to Hogan, Hogan to Savage, Savage to Bret Hart. I just enjoyed the working environment - I was amongst good friends. What I didn't realise when I went back was the animosity it had caused. I've explained in my book that my leaving the WCW created animosity 'cos it hurt the company. It was nothing I did - you know you have a right to protect yourself - here you have a company spending millions of pounds on nothing, and they couldn't give me my 25 grand. Herd was so arrogant that he wouldn't even ask Barnett about my situation, he just said &%$£ Barnett and &%$£ the belt - those were his ways of talking. He thought he was a tough guy. There was a time in my life when I thought I was invincible. I knew I was the best at what I did - I never thought of myself better than other people in any other way apart from the wrestling where I knew I was the best wrestler alive. I went from that character to a guy who was forced to cut his hair, a guy who Jim Herd wanted to wear an earring. He wanted to make me into a gladiator!! He was taking an established commodity, who'd been the flagship of the company and changing it stupidly.

 

 

What determined your departure from WWE and your return to WCW in late 1992?

 

WCW had been calling me and I think WWE were looking to downscale me, and I had a great relationship with Vince. I told him that WCW had offered me a great deal. He told me that I had done a great job, had been a great businessman and that I should do what was best for me. So I went back straight back into the turmoil and it got worse instead of better.

 

 

During the Monday Night War were the ratings of Raw and Nitro a topic of discussion among the wrestlers in the locker room? (James Pendle)

 

That's all we ever talked about! There were serious concerns that the guy we worked for was obsessed with beating McMahon. Everybody could see that McMahon was building up a great billing while we were all just getting ready to self-destruct.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What was it like to be part of the very last Nitro in March 2001 and to wrestle in the very last WCW match against Sting? (Lesley Weight)

 

I felt glad - I wanted to throw a party. We should have closed down a year before. We had turned into such a mockery - we had become the laughing stock. The guys in the WWE were just laughing at us. It was an embarrassing nightmare to anyone that had ever become successful in our business. It was terrible. I was emotionally upset for the people who had worked there for years, like the production people, wrestlers losing their jobs. When there is two entities and it becomes one, the market place becomes a lot smaller. Everybody got a month of severance pay for each year they had been there, so a guy who was there for ten years would only get paid for a year in severance. 150 people went out of business in one day - some of them made it and some of them didn't. Nobody gave a shit - it was pretty sad and very insensitive.

 

 

For over a decade in WCW you feuded on and off with Sting. Do you think the two of you will ever meet in a WWE ring and would you like this to happen?

 

Oh I wish he would but he won't though. He doesn't want to come out of retirement. He has made money and is fine. He lives in California, which has made his wife happy, and he is fine. It would be a lot of commuting for him to get back into it. He would be a huge addition but I don't think he is prepared to commit the time.

 

 

Is there any match not on The Ultimate Ric Flair Collection that would like to have seen included? (Billy Haden)

 

I haven't even seen all of it. In fact the only match I've seen is of me and Dusty. I'm not a big ego man. I don't go home and watch myself wrestle. Change of subject I know but going back to that Internet thing before. I think a good example of people giving advice it would be like a doctor going home and getting medical advice from random people who have posted something on the net. You know, our guys are the worst for it - they tell the fans what's going to happen. Some of the Wrestlers are marks, you know, they're catering for the guys on the Internet! "Please say I'm good, say something good about me. I'll tell you anything you want to know" they have fans they will cater too, just so they say, "You were great !" That's was why it was so successful in the past and why we had riots in stadiums, cos people didn't know. Now we have guys tell the fans what's happening the week before and they're like "don't tell anybody I told you just say that I'm really good" (laughs) It's a shame-it kills me. And if the fans are honest with themselves they wouldn't want to know either. It used to be riotous, people were so wound up!! They couldn't punch it in on the Internet and find out what's going on.

 

 

What would you say is the single worst/most embarrassing moment in your wrestling career? Can you look back and laugh about it now? (Chris Harrison)

 

Mistakes are few and far between. I can't think of anything I'm embarrassed about.

 

 

If you could sum up you whole career in one word or sentence, what would it be? (Warren Kantor)

 

Phenomenal.

 

How do you feel about the new direction of the business, with Benoit and Guerrero being the respective champions? (Bradley Gibson)

 

Oh I'm very happy, very happy. When you go to work you want to work in a professional environment. Whether the environment is how you want it to be, you can't control. But if your workplace is friendly and professional, you can tolerate a lot. WWE is the most professional, wholesome workplace environment I've ever been in. Regardless of all the politics that go on, it's like "yes sir", "no sir", "thank you sir". Everybody's on the same page-the production staff get the same respect as the wrestlers do. That's what makes life nice. That level of respect and professionalism is excellent. It's tiring but it's not hard to do because it's nice and it's a professional place to work. You know, McMahon will get mad but he won't show it-there is no trickle down effect, and he won't tolerate unprofessionalism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And how do you keep yourself motivated?

 

I didn't like the wrestling business after what happened in the WCW, I didn't have any ill feeling, cause they had been great to me over the years. The only reason they competed was because they spent millions and stole talent. There were no controls, no respect and it was unhealthy, that would never happen at WWE, and that keeps me motivated.

 

 

What does it mean to you to have the best selling WWE DVD of all time? (Lloyd Clarke)

 

It means a lot. I'll be brutally honest-I think it's based around me, but it gives people a chance to see all these wrestlers from yester-year who they never got to see and they've only ever heard of. You get to see Dusty Rhodes, Harley Race, Ricky Steamboat-a lot of these guys haven't been on TV in years. So people have heard of them but never seen them I know it's based around me but I think a lot of the success is based on the opponents and the people I'm wrestling.

 

 

Once your wrestling days are over, would you still like to be part of the WWE in some other role? (Phillip Ryding)

 

Oh yeah. I'd like to do promotional tours. I don't know if I'd have the patience but maybe I'd like to help put the shows together. The agents who work at putting the matches are the hardest working guys in the company and it's a bit of a thankless job. When you try to put together a live show it's hard work. We the wrestlers think we have it hard, the agents have it ten times as hard.

 

 

Which opponent, past or present, would you like to have wrestled but never have, or haven't for a long time at least? (Martin Robb)

 

I would really like to wrestle Triple H who I've only got to wrestle one time. I would love to wrestle Kurt Angle - I love wrestling Shawn Michaels, I would love to wrestle The Rock in a one on one match which I don't think will happen cos of his commitment to Hollywood. I would love to have wrestled Steve Austin, one on one. I'd like to wrestle Eddie Guerrero who I have a lot of respect for and Chris Benoit. I'd wrestle anybody!!! I'd love to wrestle Sting but I don't think that's going happen.

 

 

How do you feel when people call you the greatest of all time? (Andrew Graham)

 

I feel very rewarded. I don't know if that's true or not-I think I'm in the top five but that would be a very difficult call. I feel very honoured and rewarded to be back now. I mean I felt like I was in a tomb after WCW. I was a beaten man-not in my personal lifestyle but in my professional life, and even when I came back here I was very very reluctant. And I was sure I wouldn't have to wrestle. People have always seen Ric Flair as this full of life person who just gets in the ring and performs, laughs and then does it all again. The big mind game when Crockett sold to Turner. People who I thought might have informed me of the situation that was going on at WCW didn't. People who I trusted and confided in didn't tell me anything. But I do feel great about being considered the greatest of all time, and people considering me as that makes it even more real. But there have been a lot of great performers. When I was honoured at Greenville. That was the best night of my career. I didn't win any belts but I was honoured by my peers, and that was very emotional.

Source: silvervision.co.uk

 

You can check out the interview and some pics of Flair here

 

I'm not too surprised Flair feels the way about terms like "heels" and "faces," (Dusty Rhodes is the same way). But I am surprised it seems to upset him so much. I wonder if he's seen SD:HCTP...

[Guest I Got Banned for Sucking]

Great interview, and I, too, was surprised to see those terms used on that videogame.

 

Using those terms doesn't exactly make you a smart mark (well, chances are that you are, though), they're just "insider" terms for bad guys and good guys, respectively. Using those doesn't mean that you know more than shit-all about the industry.

[Guest JMA]

Great interview, and I, too, was surprised to see those terms used on that videogame.

 

Using those terms doesn't exactly make you a smart mark (well, chances are that you are, though), they're just "insider" terms for bad guys and good guys, respectively. Using those doesn't mean that you know more than shit-all about the industry.

I gotta disagree. Flair came off as kind of bitter, IMO.

 

I fail to see how fans using terms like "heels" and "faces" is such a big deal. It just seems so trivial. I know Flair came from a period where kayfabe was firmly in place, but the business has greatly changed. I can only imagine what he thinks of guys like Lance Storm...

 

And why didn't he complain about WWE using those terms in HCTP?

[Guest UncleJesseMark]

I recall some of the guys using those terms in their "shoot-style" promos. I can't recall a specific instance but HHH's "I'm a sarcastic asshole" tone pops into my head. I'm almost certain of it. Plus...the word "heel" in normal vernacular can be used referring to an Asshole.

[Mystery Eskimo 0]

As much as I love Flair, he's clearly out of touch and bitter about modern fans. What he doesnt realise is that as time passes more and more fans will get on the net and become "smart". There's no going back.

[Use Your Illusion 0]

I understand Flair completly.

 

I went to the doctor today and told him I had influenza. He promptly backhanded me and said 'that's 'the cold' to you, motherfucker'.

 

UYI

[Guest Deviant]

^ That right there is fucking gold. If that doesn't make Quote of the Week mentions, there is no justice in the world. Hell, if that Quote of the Year thing is still on, UYI just got a vote.

[haVoc 0]

You can't argue with Flair about guys running to the 'net a week before and leaking the storylines and kissing up to Dave, etc., so nothing negative gets posted about them.

 

It's almost like these guys are little kids and they happen to get asked a question by the local paper and it gets printed in the paper the next day so they cut it out and put it on the frig. Or the idiot who jumps up and down behind the guy doing the news, "LOOK AT ME MAMA!!!!!"

 

They get all excited when they sign online and see "their" story posted.

[Guest Deviant]

Of course not, except Flair seems to draw little distinction between Vince Russo and anything on the internet. Russo liked the internet and used it too much, thus, the internet is the root of all evil.

 

Flair expecting all fans to act like marks in 2004 is just a liiiiiittle bit stupid and naive. We as mere fans can't have any understanding of what it means to "job for someone" or why it would be better in the long run for one guy to "go over" another? These guys are winning on the merit of their talents, clearly. Flair says so. Wrestling is real.

 

Sorry Flair, the human race and technology has evolved and are actually intelligent. Damn, huh?

 

What freaking difference does saying "heel" instead of "nasty bad man" make, except for bringing a little intelligence and maturity to the table? Hell, someone should teach old man Flair how to use one of these new fangled contraptions they call computers. Internet fans love the man. They bought his DVD. His recent interviews are probably going to hurt his half-way intelligent fan base.

 

My respect for him has decreased recently. He can only be so condescending before it pisses people off.

[dubq 0]

I understand Flair completly.

 

I went to the doctor today and told him I had influenza. He promptly backhanded me and said 'that's 'the cold' to you, motherfucker'.

 

UYI

Pure gold..

[dubq 0]

The best combination was Arn, Barry Windham Terry Blanchard and myself.

 

RE: the 4H, gotta agree with that one. Hands down.

 

..and wow, about the whole "fans using insider talk" and him coming back to the internet. Yet, I wonder how much $$ WWE would lose if the internet magically disappeared tomorrow...

[Guest RickyB]

I actually understand him, that was supposed to be a term that Wrestlers could use and the fans wouldn't undestand them. I mean I Wrestle for 3CW (as you can probably guess since I promote it so much on Misc Promotions) and we're lucky because we Wrestle in front of kids who think it's real and adults who used to watch old British Wrestling and don't know what Faces and Heels are, they just know it "fake" but that it's entertainment and don't take it so seriously. And don't know what "going over" is, they can't tell if somethings botched and they don't care if you put on a ***** match as long as they go home entertained or get to see their favourite Wrestler win. Most of the kids think it's real and most of the adults think it's entertainment. And it's so much better that way. I've never really Wrestled in front of a smart audiance... and hopefully I won't for a while, lol. But I don't know how rewarding it would be to just have an audiance applaud you for putting on a good match than it is when you perform in front of a load of kids and they seriously HATE you because you've done your job as a heel, and when they pop like crazy when you get pinned. It's a shame it'll never go back to those days totally... but it's nice to see that there's still people that enjoy it for what it is somewhere.

 

I don't think he's totally right because it's the industry itself that's made it like that (as he actually did say), but he was around before any fans were really "smart" to the business and it's a shame that there are so many fans that know so much about the business in a way. But there's no going back now.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

..and wow, about the whole "fans using insider talk" and him coming back to the internet. Yet, I wonder how much $$ WWE would lose if the internet magically disappeared tomorrow...

This is the problem with people in the industry that are always bitching about the IWC. They obviously forget what most "smarks" tend to spend their money on...........

[humongous2002 0]

Flair sounds like a bitter old man, why bite that hand that feeds you Slick Ric??If it wasn't for us you wouldn't have the best selling DVD of all time.

[nl5xsk1 0]

It's funny how angry everyone is getting because he's not suckling on the teat of the internet. The WWE would do fine if the 'net went away, or if all the smarks took their toys and went home. Smarks are the minority, and Vince would still be able to feed his family if the internet magically disappeared.

 

I can kind of understand Flair's frustration with people using insider terminology. Heel/face isn't too bad, but when people talk about "doing the job" or "showing some ass" and stupid shit like that, it's a bit over-the-top. Or referring to the wrestlers by their actual names.

[dubq 0]

Or referring to the wrestlers by their actual names.

You're right. From now on I will only refer to Hugh Jackman as "Wolverine" and Thomas Jane as "The Punisher" - it makes total sense! What in the world was I thinking?!

 

Fuck that shit. I've been putting money in these guys' pockets since I was a kid, I can use whatever terminology I want. If Flair doesn't like it, maybe he should take a step back and stop frying his brain with all of that bleach, because it's having an adverse effect.

[nl5xsk1 0]

vivisectvi, you're comparing apples to oranges. A more accurate example would be movie stars or musicians that go by a stage name.

 

Would you call Nikki Sixx his birthname, or his stage name? Or Gene Simmons, or Axl Rose? Or Jenna Jameson (sorry, I'm really stretching to find a movie star that goes by a stage name). Or, to a lesser extent, Tiger Woods or Bo Jackson? My point is that these people have a name that they are commonly known as, why call them something else?

 

If you don't want to give Flair money, or anyone else for that matter, don't. It's just the false sense of importance shown by so many smarks is nauseating.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

What freaking difference does saying "heel" instead of "nasty bad man" make, except for bringing a little intelligence and maturity to the table?

 

Good point.

 

 

 

Maybe Flair's just bitter at us because we keep hoping he'll stop wrestling soon since he's way past the limit.

[dubq 0]

I'm not so sure that that would be a more accurate example. Wrestlers are playing characters. A musician who goes by a stage name isn't, most of the time. Nikki Sixx is still Nikki Sixx off stage, Axl Rose. Tommy Lee. Whoever.

 

Whereas, for example Kane, isn't Kane outside of the ring. He's Glen Jacobs. Just like James Gandolfini isn't Tony Soprano, he's James Gandolfini. It's just a case of certain wrestlers being to uppity and self-imporant for their own good.

 

What's next? Users on this board freaking out if someone calls them by their name!

 

VIVISECTVI: "That's it! I have no respect for anyone who calls me Bill! It's VIVISECTVI damnit!!"

 

[nl5xsk1 0]

I still stick with my analogy ... just because Kane's mother probably calls him "Glen" doesn't mean you should. And, I presume that Nikki Sixx's mother calls him _____ (whatever his real name is). Fans probably call him by his stage name, and people that know him and are friends of his probably call him by his real name.

[dubq 0]

I still stick with my analogy ... just because Kane's mother probably calls him "Glen" doesn't mean you should. And, I presume that Nikki Sixx's mother calls him _____ (whatever his real name is). Fans probably call him by his stage name, and people that know him and are friends of his probably call him by his real name.

I don't see why we shouldn't be allowed to call him Glen. People aren't always referring to the wrestler's character when talking about him. But, back on the original topic, I still stand by my initial statement.. we as fans have invested time and money into this form of entertainment, and I feel that if we want to use "insider terminology" or "real names" or whatever, than we can... especially when it concerns a publicly traded company like WWE.

[AndrewTS 0]

Would you call Nikki Sixx his birthname, or his stage name?  Or Gene Simmons, or Axl Rose?  Or Jenna Jameson (sorry, I'm really stretching to find a movie star that goes by a stage name).

The Sheen family, Nicholas Cage, etc--probably the majority of celebrities go by a stage name, it just isn't as well known sometimes. I wouldn't go by my real last name, and I don't blame Mr. Hickenbottom for not wanting anyone to know his real last name either.

 

Whereas, for example Kane, isn't Kane outside of the ring. He's Glen Jacobs. Just like James Gandolfini isn't Tony Soprano, he's James Gandolfini. It's just a case of certain wrestlers being to uppity and self-imporant for their own good.

 

At the same time, a large number of the wrestling characters are little more than extensions of their real personalities.

 

For example, Steve Austin isn't too different from his real self Steve Williams. They drink lots of beer, have problems with authority, and like to beat women. *Vince McMahon isn't terribly different from Mr. McMahon. Some of the wrestlers call EACH OTHER by their "stage name," so why shouldn't we, if it applies? The exceptions would probably be, say, guys who have been on the indy circuits or in another company far longer than their current company.

 

I doubt Nick Dinsmore would take offense to being called Nick Dinsmore by a fan instead of "Eugene." Foley has been basically playing himself since he did away with the kayfabe original Mankind (except for as Cactus, Dude) however. In addtion, he'd been called Mick Foley so much that it makes sense to call him Mick. Spanky actually went in reverse, starting out in independents as Spanky, going by his real name in WWE, eventually reverting back to Spanky--so either would work. I don't think Terry Taylor would like being called Red Rooster, etc. Exercise a little bit of common sense. Bob Holly should consider himself lucky if a fan remembers any of his names, on the other hand. It really often depends on the case.

 

However, calling HHH "Paul," Taker "Mark," and Kane "Glen" seems very pretentious to me.

 

Stuff like heel, face, worker, etc--Flair's wrong about that. He's rather old-school and hasn't fessed up to the fact that the business has changed. Vince killed kayfabe, and once you've seen the man behind the curtain, you just can't put the curtain right back up and pretend it was never pulled away. I doubt a guy in his fifties is really going to be very in-tune with the business as it currently is.

 

---

*Shameless cheap shot, but I'm just making a joke, K?

[dubq 0]

Some of the wrestlers call EACH OTHER by their "stage name," so why shouldn't we, if it applies?

 

I doubt Nick Dinsmore would take offense to being called Nick

However, calling HHH "Paul," Taker "Mark," and Kane "Glen" seems very pretentious to me.

I'm not saying we shouldn't, ever. I'm saying we shouldn't have to.

 

I'm not saying go up to said wrestler if you ever see him and start a conversation using his real name. I'm talking about general conversation. If I'm talking on the net [or anywhere else] to someone about the career of a certain wrestler and it's too taboo for me to mention his real name.. then fuck that. That is what I find pretentious.

 

It's just a matter of figuring out where to draw the line. Fanboys striking up convos in the parking lot or a autograph signing with a wrestler, okay, I agree there. But if I'm a fan, who works somewhere that a wrestler frequents, using his real name [say, a car rental agency, etc] then I'm not exactly going to feel like a goon if I use his real name.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

However, calling HHH "Paul," Taker "Mark," and Kane "Glen" seems very pretentious to me.

 

I remember on Celebrity Deathmatch, the Undertaker was fighting the son of Nick Diamond who was possessed by the Devil and kept messing with the Phenom by calling him "Mark"

 

The Undertaker: Don't call me that! I'm the Undertaker!

 

[Guest CommaderK9]

I agree that Flair seems out of touch with today's fans in this interview, but I question the accuracy of the quotes attributed to him. Flair is definately not from the UK, but there are several instances where British terminology is used: "mum", "million POUND contract" in the Flair responses. I wonder how much of his quotes about using "inside" terms are embellished by the author?

[nl5xsk1 0]

I think that my view on the 'real name' debate can be broken down like this ...

 

when we're talking about the person behind the character (e.g. Steve Williams beating his wife) it's fine to use a real name. If Shawn Michaels gets hit by lightning tonight, I'd have no issue with people using either his stage or birth name to talk about what happened. But when people are talking about them as wrestlers, it only makes sense to use their character's name.

 

To use the Sopranos anaology, if Tony Soprano has a scene in which he kills Michael in an emotionally wrenching scene, no one would say "wow, Gandolfini really flipped out when he killed Imperioli" (or whatever the last name of the guy that plays Michael is). There's a time to refer to the character and a time to refer to the actor.

[Silence 0]

So Flair wants us to start calling female wrestlers like Victoria "good women" and Trish Stratus a "bad woman", a "jezebel", or an "evil bitch"? Because right now I'm laughing my ass off at how stupid those markish terms sound.

[dubq 0]

You know, I was just thinking.

 

WWE brings a lot of this shit down on itself.

 

I remember when their site first came out, and it was "the place to be" - and was all "insider" and shit.

 

Then, a few years later, their stance is all "kayfabe 24/7" and "we hate the internet!"

 

Yet they still have an internet presence, not to mention articles that are written by their wrestlers out-of-character.

 

Yet we get blamed for exposing the business.

 

They put programs like Tough Enough on the air, which is pretty much ALL ABOUT exposing the business, and yet.. the IWC still takes the blame.

 

If they want to fix all of this shit, then maybe they should start in their own fucking back yard before they go harping on us.

 

..and if Ric Flair doesn't like me using the word 'kayfabe' - well boo-hoo, Mr. DVD can just go suck my left nut.

[thecitythesky 0]

*

 

it's been said before... but bare in mind that Flair is from a time and place where doing anything to "smarten" up anyone who wasn't in the business was cause to get your arms and legs broken twice over (see Heenen's book)

 

... so i don't think he comes across as bitter, more sad/disappointed. i mean, Blassie got mobbed and stabbed for christ's sake. in Mexico (where by and large they still "believe") Jeff-fucking-Jarrett caused a riot... and he barely gets any kind of reaction in the states.

 

realitically, from a performer and fan's standpoint, it was more fun before the secrets were out. go to a show and sit by a group of kids... or watch a PPV at your local Hooter's or BW3's packed w/ full on blind marks, and there's still that magic there. and as much as i know that will never again be the case for folks like those around here, i'll admit that i do kind of miss it; as even the bad stuff could be entertaining or something that i could get into.

 

(sidenote, last June's Bad Blood (which was horrid) was a PPV i actually enjoyed by virtue of sitting in a bar full of people who didn't care/know about anything but what they were shown on TV and admitedly it rubbed off a little bit, and somehow i had a good time watching it.)

 

and Flair's not blaming the fans on the Internet for exposing the business. he's blaming the business for exposing itself. because, really, if everyone had always kept their mouths shut like they were supposed to - we wouldn't know much of anything. and as much as i frequent a wide variety of wrestling sites, i do agree w/ Flair on this. but if you go through it again, he clearly is blaming a handful of people on the inside for opening the flood gates and continuing to fan the flames.

*

[King Cucaracha 0]

it's been said before... but bare in mind that Flair is from a time and place where doing anything to "smarten" up anyone who wasn't in the business was cause to get your arms and legs broken twice over (see Heenen's book)

 

... so i don't think he comes across as bitter, more sad/disappointed.

Totally agree. Flair has been in the business for a long while, and obviously 'grew up' with the kayfabe...and probably sees the disadvantages it is bringing down on the business. Some guys aren't getting the reactions they would have done in the 80's, and obviously Flair being in the wrestling business feels bad for those guys.

 

Plus it's a whole different world, which no doubt is less fun to be in. I'd imagine his life during the kayfabe filled years was better/more fun/more interesting than it is today.

 

You can see his point.