Has the NFL QB position declined in talent?

[Guest Redhawk]

While playing Tecmo Super Bowl earlier today a thought occurred to me. Not too long ago, it seemed like NFL quarterbacks were just better, overall, than the ones today.

 

Back then you had Hall of Fame-types or borderline HOF-types, guys like Montana, Elway, Marino, Jim Kelly, Boomer, Aikman, Kosar, Moon, Simms, Cunningham, etc. Steve Young, who if he played today would be one of the best QBs in the league, didn't even start in San Fran for a long time. Back then, when a team's No. 1 QB went down, it was a disaster. And the teams that had the "journeyman" or career backup-types starting at QB were the teams who sucked hard.

 

But now it seems like anyone can play QB in the NFL, and anyone can play well. A lot of the top-level QBs in the league were classic career-backup types: Bulger, Delhomme, Kitna, Trent Green, Tom Brady, Pennington, Gannon, Tommy Maddox, Matt Hasselbeck, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, etc. Nowadays, it seems like the difference between No. 1 and No. 2 QB isn't really much of a difference. In 2004, if your starter goes down it's like, "Oh well, no biggie." Of course there are some exceptions (Vick, P. Manning), but for the most part, backups can step right in and succeed. We saw it in Minnesota with Frerotte lastyear and Bouman in '03; in Philly with Feely; and in Tennesee with Volek. But 10 years ago, could you really see a new coach coming into Arizona and saying, "It's cool, we'll roll with Josh McCown for this year." No, they would have drafted Phil Rivers of Ben Roethlisberger in a heartbeat.

 

Has the overall quality of NFL QBs dropped? Has the "system" one plays in made it easier for anyone to succeed? Or has the quality of play improved, so now backups are better than the backups of 10 years ago?

[Damaramu 0]

Yes there were a lot of greats in the old days.

And I think the fact that the backups can step in and play may speak for the overall increase of talent. You have so many talented ones that some have to play backup.

 

Oh and you put Vick in the elite class. I say the jury's still out on him. Give him a few years before we call him an all time great. He could break his leg again next season and never return or be the same. Give him the test of time before you go rattling him off as one of the all time greats. That and a lot of people mark for him.

[KingPK 0]

Has the overall quality of NFL QBs dropped? Has the "system" one plays in made it easier for anyone to succeed? Or has the quality of play improved, so now backups are better than the backups of 10 years ago?

Bingo. IMO, it's all about the system in today's NFL. Just look at New England: Drew Bledsoe just wasn't the type of QB that fit into Belichick and Charlie Weis' system. Drew was all about standing in the pocket and going long to his receivers. Tom Brady is more mobile, and is very good at the short/intermediate passes, which is Weis' forte. Better fit=better offense=success.

 

Of course, the thing is with those two examples you cited about 2nd stringers coming in and succeeding (Volek and Ferotte), that was only for a few games. There could be a whole bunch of reasons they did well in that short time (bad opposing D, QB just had a good game, etc.)

[Damaramu 0]

And let's not forget that one of the best actually still does play these days..........Brett Farve.

[Guest Redhawk]

Oh and you put Vick in the elite class. I say the jury's still out on him. Give him a few years before we call him an all time great. He could break his leg again next season and never return or be the same. Give him the test of time before you go rattling him off as one of the all time greats. That and a lot of people mark for him.

I'm not saying Vick is an all-time great. I'm saying Atlanta is one of the teams that will be/has been screwed if their starter goes down. Most teams have a No. 2 QB who isn't that much of a dropoff from their No. 1.

[Guest Redhawk]

Oh and you put Vick in the elite class. I say the jury's still out on him. Give him a few years before we call him an all time great. He could break his leg again next season and never return or be the same. Give him the test of time before you go rattling him off as one of the all time greats. That and a lot of people mark for him.

I'm not saying Vick is an all-time great. I'm saying Atlanta is one of the teams that will be/has been screwed if their starter goes down. Most teams have a No. 2 QB who isn't that much of a dropoff from their No. 1.

[Damaramu 0]

Well if the backup isn't a dropoff and can carry the offense doesn't that speak more about the backup and his ability? I mean if you have a #1 offense and the QB goes down and they remain a #1 offense......then the backup must be good.

 

And let's not forget some of the diamond in the rough backups. I mean Roger Staubach(sp?) anyone?

[Damaramu 0]

And Vick has potential yes......but I'm telling you......if I could get a monster pocket QB with a long and accurate arm I wouldn't hesitate to make Vick a RB. I think he could do great things at both positions but I don't want him to turn out to be another ball hog like my boy McNabb who decides he wants to run with it every play even when he doesn't have to b/c he thinks it's cool to rush for 100 yds a game and throw for 200.

[Guest]

The quarterback position as a whole is overrated, I mean look at Trent Dilfer and Jake Delhomme. They never did anything but they had a great offensive line. Without protection, your offense is nothing and hence you have why the Raiders drafted Robert Gallery.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I think QBs today are just as good but they've become less important overall. Running backs and defense have become so important to winning that a team can go all the way with a QB that only throws a few times a game.

[Guest Astro]

Look at poor Farve, he turns around and sees CRAIG NALL as his main competion, since Pederson got the boot

[Guest]

Tim Couch will be a Packer by the pre-season, so yeah.

[Guest]

Tim Couch will be a Packer by the pre-season, so yeah.

[Guest Astro]

Tis true

 

What QB has no competition? Almost every team has 2 guys who are decent enugh to start (although the gap is bigger on some teams than others)

[Damaramu 0]

God damn! 4 posts!?

[Guest HungryJack]

Brett Favre should be retired. But he's not. That sucks.

 

 

That said, I would agree with the "System > QB" assessment, though i'm sure certain QBs would be successful anywhere they played.

[Damaramu 0]

Why should Brett be retired?

He's still got it.

[Guest El Satanico]

Another thing is that we're still in transition from the last group of "greats"(Elway, Aikman etc.) to the next group. There's alot of young guys playing QB and it will a few years until we have the next group of "greats".

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Favre is still a playmaker. What he needs is some more help in the form of weapons around him.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Favre is still a playmaker. What he needs is some more help in the form of weapons around him.

What he needs a better defense. The Packers lost several times last year (including in the divisional playoffs) because they couldn't hold off their opponents in the 4th Quarter when they had the lead. Often this would be under two minutes with Favre sitting on the sideline. The offense was fine. Favre got hurt, and didn't have great numbers during the middle of the year, but Green did his share and Favre really turned it on by the end. The offense is not Green Bay's problem.

[The Man in Blak 0]

Favre is still a playmaker.

Yeah, to the detriment of his team, at times. The last play of the Packers' season involved Brett forcing a throw into triple coverage and getting picked off...and that seems to be the norm for him, nowadays. He had a phenomenal streak towards the tail end of last year, but his legendary presence is almost a liability in the fact that they won't think of giving the ball to anybody else in the clutch situations (like, say, Ahman Green).

 

Favre has earned that respect, no doubt, but his gunslinging tendencies (which were incomparable at the peak of his career) seem to do more damage than good. I think next year's his last ride.

 

And Kingpk nailed it with the comment about systems dominating the NFL now. Even the best player in the game at any given position can be taken out of the game with proper defensive strategies. And, conversely, offensive systems can be tooled to take advantage of above average quarterbacks with particular skills. It's all systems warfare, now, and a quarterback is measured in his versatility, his ability to work within a system and make things happen out of nothing.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Tim Couch will be a Packer by the pre-season, so yeah.

The Packers would be better of bringing in a nice 2nd string QB at a cheaper price. The tired idea of a younger QB, being groomed by the veteran. Seriously besides Montana and Young when has that ever worked.

[NoCalMike 0]

Well you have to also look at the fact that overall teams are not as good as they used to be, which contributes to the decline of every position. with the way Free Agency is, an elite QB could be learning a new offensive system every 5 years or so, opposed to a QB from the 70's who played in the same system for 12 year. If you look at the GREATS though, they are probably just as good as the guys from yesteryear.

[Damaramu 0]

Well.........you are right about the system.

Look at the Patriots. They have good players. But nobody like singuarly great that could carry a team on his back like a Montana or Elway.

But the system they work in and the way they work together allows them to win championships.

[Gert T 0]

I have a few theories, first that the passing game has changed, the downfield passes have slowed down, and teams rely more on short passes and letting the WR's create. And most QB's even backups, or not highly regarded ones can make these passes.

 

Also speed of LB's has changed the game as well. They are too fast and can recover quicker so we do not see as much passing over the middle.

 

I think the reason the shorter passes have also occured is better speed on the front four. The classic "pocket passer" has a tougher time because he does not have as much time to stay in the pocket.

[Mole 0]

Vick is so overrated. What is so great about him?

 

He threw for 2,936 yards.

He was 231/421, 54% of his passes connected.

His rating was a 81.6.

Oh but he rushed for 777 yards, so that makes him SUCH a great QB. Besides when he runs with the ball, he doesn't tuck the ball in. Everytime I see him run with it, I scream at the TV for him to tuck the damn ball in.

 

When he has more than 3 good seasons, gets the Falcons to the SB or NFC championship, and does more than run around, then I will call him a good QB. Even then, look at what happened to Warner.

 

Vick = OVERRATED

[Agent_Bond34 0]

Seriously besides Montana and Young when has that ever worked.

Chad Pennington

 

He sat for 2 seasons, and he turned out just fine.

 

Didn't Steve McNair sit for 2 seasons, also?

[Shanghai Kid 0]

Vick is so overrated. What is so great about him?

 

He threw for 2,936 yards.

He was 231/421, 54% of his passes connected.

His rating was a 81.6.

Oh but he rushed for 777 yards, so that makes him SUCH a great QB. Besides when he runs with the ball, he doesn't tuck the ball in. Everytime I see him run with it, I scream at the TV for him to tuck the damn ball in.

 

When he has more than 3 good seasons, gets the Falcons to the SB or NFC championship, and does more than run around, then I will call him a good QB. Even then, look at what happened to Warner.

 

Vick = OVERRATED

Overrated or not, he's the most exciting player in sports and he's the biggest draw the NFL has.

 

Stats don't tell the whole story on Vick. NOBODY can do some of the stuff that he does. He's a physical freak, his legacy won't even rely on QB stats. The stats don't tell the gamebreaking plays. Vick does things that makes him stand out, he's quite simply the stuff that legends are made off. Not that he's a legend yet, but the door is open for Vick to become one of the all time greats. He was a MVP candidate in his first year as a starter and you can believe he'll win a MVP in the near future, and even win some superbowl rings. The NFL wanted/needed a Micheal Jordan, and Vick is just that. He makes his teammates so much better. Without him, they are one of the worst teams in the league. They won all his games when he came back and they're always a playoff contender with Vick there.

 

Let's not forget that he was the first to go into Greenbay in the playoffs and whoop Farve in his own home.

[Guest El Satanico]

Go and tell NFL defensive coordinators that Vick is overrated, but be prepared to get laughed at.

[Ripper 0]

Vick also has a rocket for a arm, is great at throwing on the run, and has a damn good long ball. His stats would be better, but his recievers did have a ungodly number of drops.

 

He isn't as accurate as he could be but he isn't really overrated because noone ever calls him a great QB. They call him the most exciting playmaker in the game, and well...that is certainly is a point you can make a case for.

 

 

And Damaru... A job as GM or coach is not in your future.