Ultimate Athlete FINALS...

[Mik 0]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...le/athlete/2004

 

I don't know how many of you have been following along with this, but Page 2 has been doing an ultimate athlete tournament similar to the 100 other tournaments they do each year. It's down to the finals...Michael Vick vs. Lance Armstrong.

 

Vick beat Michael Phelps (swimmer) and Armstrong beat Barry Bonds in the semis. I've been voting for Vick the whole way through but as of my vote about 5 minutes ago, Armstrong is winning by a very large margin.

 

Do you agree with this pairing? Who do you think is the better athlete, and if not these two, who do you think if the ulimate athlete?

[razazteca 0]

Vick is an injury risk and Armstrong beat cancer so Mr. Tour de France wins.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

Career Accomplishmentes

 

Armstrong: won 5 consecutive Tour de France

 

Vick: won a playoff game

broke his leg

 

 

hmm........

[Guest Choken One]

Stupid Idiots.

 

Vick runs fast. That doesn't make him a freakin Athelete.

 

The One Decathalon guy should be facing Armstrong here.

 

But Armstrong is the obvious and deserving winner.

[Damaramu 0]

Are you shocked? It's Michael Vick. ESPN and fanboys the world over's wet dream.

[nl5xsk1 0]

No ... Barry Bonds is the teat that ESPN likes to suckle it's milk from. Vick doesn't get nearly the adoration that BALCO Bonds does.

 

If this poll was accurate (and not just a popularity contest) the athletes that went furthest would have been the triathletes, the pentathletes, the decathletes, etc. And throw in Armstrong for good measure, winning 5 Tours is pretty damn impressive. People like Bonds, Vick, Lewis, etc. shouldn't have gotten past the round of 32.

[Ripper 0]

Stupid Idiots.

 

Vick runs fast. That doesn't make him a freakin Athelete.

 

The One Decathalon guy should be facing Armstrong here.

 

But Armstrong is the obvious and deserving winner.

Well, to be fair, Vick does alot more than "run fast".

 

I have this theory that if you put enough hype on anyone, you will have droves of people saying they aren't really that good. Runs a 4.3, has a rocket for a arm, leads a team with historically bad record to good record and plays solid qub position...HES NO ATHELETE!!! HE HAS A GATORADE COMMERCIAL~!

[starvenger 0]

I have this theory that if you put enough hype on anyone, you will have droves of people saying they aren't really that good.  Runs a 4.3, has a rocket for a arm, leads a team with historically bad record to good record and plays solid qub position...HES NO ATHELETE!!! HE HAS A GATORADE COMMERCIAL~!

Which begs the question - why wasn't that kid in the Gatorade commercial in this poll? j/k

 

Anyways if all Armstrong did was beat cancer and return to compete at a high level in cycling he's more of an "ultimate athlete" than Vick in my mind. But since he's won 5 Tour de France's, it's a slam dunk.

[Ripper 0]

Oh he definately wins in this little poll, but to say Vick can't do anything but run fast is basically bullshit.

[starvenger 0]

Oh he definately wins in this little poll, but to say Vick can't do anything but run fast is basically bullshit.

Agreed. If all he did was run fast, he'd have no business being in football.

[Ripper 0]

Oh he definately wins in this little poll, but to say Vick can't do anything but run fast is basically bullshit.

Agreed. If all he did was run fast, he'd have no business being in football.

Let alone playing quarterback.

 

Let alone playing QB with a 14-7 record as a starter...with the FALCONS.

[Guest Redhawk]

If your argument is that all Vick does is run fast, then I'd say all Lance Armstrong does is pedal a bike fast.

[starvenger 0]

If your argument is that all Vick does is run fast, then I'd say all Lance Armstrong does is pedal a bike fast.

Hah!!

 

Anyways, I doubt that any athlete in high level competition could be considered one-dimensional. No matter how much we want to label a DH as such...

[Guest Flyboy]

If your argument is that all Vick does is run fast, then I'd say all Lance Armstrong does is pedal a bike fast.

LO-fucking-L. That was intensely great.

[CanadianChris 0]

Armstrong has been the clear and deserving winner since the start of the competition. It's not even close, really.

[Guest Redhawk]

Armstrong has been the clear and deserving winner since the start of the competition.  It's not even close, really.

How's that? He RIDES A BIKE!

 

What are the elements of athleticism? Straigh-line speed, strength, agility, flexibility, throwing power, throwing accuracy, hands (catching), kicking power and accuracy, acceleration and jumping/leaping ability, right?

 

Now, when he's on the field, how many of these does Vick display? I'd say all of them except for the kicking part.

 

When Lance rides a bike, how many of them does he show?

 

Maybe Lance can jump higher than Vick. Maybe he's faster. Maybe he's stronger or has a better arm. But we don't know that. All we can go off of is what we see, and given that, Vick is a superior athlete.

[Guest MikeSC]

Armstrong has been the clear and deserving winner since the start of the competition.  It's not even close, really.

How's that? He RIDES A BIKE!

 

 

 

Now, when he's on the field, how many of these does Vick display? I'd say all of them except for the kicking part.

 

When Lance rides a bike, how many of them does he show?

 

Maybe Lance can jump higher than Vick. Maybe he's faster. Maybe he's stronger or has a better arm. But we don't know that. All we can go off of is what we see, and given that, Vick is a superior athlete.

Moment Vick manages to do ANYTHING remotely as grueling as winning the Tour de France, he can talk.

 

What are the elements of athleticism? Straigh-line speed

Armstrong quite high here.

strength

Try peddling a bike up the friggin' Alps.

agility, flexibility

Armstrong in a walk.

throwing power, throwing accuracy

When has THIS been considered a basis of "athletic talent"?

hands (catching), kicking power and accuracy, acceleration and jumping/leaping ability, right?

Funny you leave off things like, well, stamina.

 

Fact is, Vick, athletically, is behind triathletes, decathletes, boxers, long-distance bikers, et al.

-=Mike

[Mik 0]

Who is to say? Just because he doesn't do those things doesn't mean he can't! I think the point of the whole competition was to eliminate the sports people play and pit them by their natural abilities.

 

Now, Mike, I'm not saying I'm disagreeing with you, but we don't know that Vick can't do those things if he put in the proper training, just as we don't know that Lance couldn't be a good qb if he put his life training for it.

 

To automatically say that all of those other athletes are better is absurd, because I'll say it right now, Bo Jackson is the greatest athlete of my lifetime, and he isn't a triathlete, decathatle, boxer, biker, whatever. Bo Jackson could do things with his body no other human being could do.

[Guest Redhawk]

How do you know Armstrong easily beats Vick in flexibility? Have you seen either one of them stretch? And as far as agility, have you seen Armstrong cut and dance through 11 defenders?

 

Armstrong can pedal a bike fast, but you know damn well Vick would beat him in a race.

 

Lance does have great lower body strength, obviously, but what do you know about his upper-body strength? I know Vick had to do the bench-press test at the NFL Draft combines -- as well as leg strength tests such as squats -- and his arm strength when throwing the ball is another example of his upper-body strength.

 

Why wouldn't throwing be considered part of athleticism? If it's not, than I guess Pedro Martinez isn't an athlete. Also, since javelin is part of the decathalon, I'd say most people consider throwing part of athleticism.

 

Right, I did leave off stamina; my bad.

 

However, all we know now is that Lance beats Vick in stamina, maybe lower-body strength, maybe flexibility, maybe agility (though I still can't see how he "walks" here) and...riding a bike.

 

Bottom line is, more of Vick's athletic talents are on display on the field, while we only see a few of Lance's talents during the Tour. Just because the sports media has been sucking Lance off forever doesn't mean we have to as well.

[CanadianChris 0]

How do you know Armstrong easily beats Vick in flexibility? Have you seen either one of them stretch? And as far as agility, have you seen Armstrong cut and dance through 11 defenders?

I've seen him cut and dance through a group of cyclists like they were standing still.

 

Armstrong can pedal a bike fast, but you know damn well Vick would beat him in a race.

Depends on how far. Armstrong used to be a champion triathlete, too.

 

Why wouldn't throwing be considered part of athleticism? If it's not, than I guess Pedro Martinez isn't an athlete. Also, since javelin is part of the decathalon, I'd say most people consider throwing part of athleticism.

You took it way too far. Why MUST someone be able to throw to be considered a great athlete?

 

Bottom line is, more of Vick's athletic talents are on display on the field, while we only see a few of Lance's talents during the Tour. Just because the sports media has been sucking Lance off forever doesn't mean we have to as well.

Doesn't mean they're not all right on the money, either. What he's been able to do is superhuman, and if you'd ever watched him race the Tour de France closely, you'd know that, too.

[Guest MikeSC]

Who is to say? Just because he doesn't do those things doesn't mean he can't! I think the point of the whole competition was to eliminate the sports people play and pit them by their natural abilities.

And, when compared to other football players, Vick is WAY up there. However, when compared to ALL athletes, he's not even close to being the greatest athlete.

Now, Mike, I'm not saying I'm disagreeing with you, but we don't know that Vick can't do those things if he put in the proper training, just as we don't know that Lance couldn't be a good qb if he put his life training for it.

We go with what's been shown --- and guys like Armstrong and most boxers have shown more athletic ability.

To automatically say that all of those other athletes are better is absurd, because I'll say it right now, Bo Jackson is the greatest athlete of my lifetime, and he isn't a triathlete, decathatle, boxer, biker, whatever. Bo Jackson could do things with his body no other human being could do.

I don't argue that Bo could well be the greatest athlete of our generation. But, since the choice is between a 5-time Tour de France winner and a football QB --- the choice is fairly easy.

How do you know Armstrong easily beats Vick in flexibility? Have you seen either one of them stretch? And as far as agility, have you seen Armstrong cut and dance through 11 defenders?

Ever seen a cluster of bikes?

Armstrong can pedal a bike fast, but you know damn well Vick would beat him in a race.

What kind of race? 40-yard dash? Probably. An endurance race? Not a chance in hell that I've seen.

Lance does have great lower body strength, obviously, but what do you know about his upper-body strength? I know Vick had to do the bench-press test at the NFL Draft combines -- as well as leg strength tests such as squats -- and his arm strength when throwing the ball is another example of his upper-body strength.

I put far more emphasis on endurance than muscle strength.

Why wouldn't throwing be considered part of athleticism? If it's not, than I guess Pedro Martinez isn't an athlete. Also, since javelin is part of the decathalon, I'd say most people consider throwing part of athleticism.

Baseball players are seldom great athletes. Let's go ahead and be honest here. As John Kruk said: "I'm not an athlete, I'm a ball player".

Right, I did leave off stamina; my bad.

 

However, all we know now is that Lance beats Vick in stamina, maybe lower-body strength, maybe flexibility, maybe agility (though I still can't see how he "walks" here) and...riding a bike.

 

Bottom line is, more of Vick's athletic talents are on display on the field, while we only see a few of Lance's talents during the Tour. Just because the sports media has been sucking Lance off forever doesn't mean we have to as well.

Lance has won the biggest event in his sport for 5 years in a row AFTER combating cancer.

 

Michael Vick won a playoff game.

 

Winning the Tour De France OWNS playing an NFL season in terms of physical endurance, rigor, and athletic demands.

 

Just because some wish to fellate Vick, so be it.

-=Mike

[Guest Redhawk]

Vick doesn't play games by himself, you know. The fact that he's "only won one playoff game" doesn't really say anything about his athletic ability. But if the NFL had some kind of individual athletic competition, like an NFL heptathalon or something, who's to say Vick wouldn't win it five years in a row?

[Damaramu 0]

Baseball players aren't great athletes? I think to do what they do would require a hell of a lot of atleticism.

[Guest MikeSC]

Vick doesn't play games by himself, you know. The fact that he's "only won one playoff game" doesn't really say anything about his athletic ability. But if the NFL had some kind of individual athletic competition, like an NFL heptathalon or something, who's to say Vick wouldn't win it five years in a row?

You're going with assumptions.

 

Lance has won one of the most brutal sports accomplishments out there FIVE YEARS IN A ROW.

Baseball players aren't great athletes? I think to do what they do would require a hell of a lot of atleticism.

I put most of their play up there with golfers.

 

Requires TONS of skill --- but athletically? Not much there.

-=Mike

[Damaramu 0]

Vick doesn't play games by himself, you know. The fact that he's "only won one playoff game" doesn't really say anything about his athletic ability. But if the NFL had some kind of individual athletic competition, like an NFL heptathalon or something, who's to say Vick wouldn't win it five years in a row?

You're going with assumptions.

 

Lance has won one of the most brutal sports accomplishments out there FIVE YEARS IN A ROW.

Baseball players aren't great athletes? I think to do what they do would require a hell of a lot of atleticism.

I put most of their play up there with golfers.

 

Requires TONS of skill --- but athletically? Not much there.

-=Mike

Hitting the ball, running the bases, stealing bases, catching the ball, diving for the ball, jumping for the ball, etc........all require athletic ability.

[Jorge Gorgeous 0]

You're going with assumptions.

I almost spit Dr. Pepper all over my computer screen when I saw this... ALL you did in refuting Redhawk's claims of athleticism was use assumptions.

 

No shit? Armstrong is faster on a bike than Vick is on his feet? I could be faster on a bike than Vick is on his feet. If the two are having a foot race I'm fairly certain that Vick would blow Armstrong away... seeing as how Vick is one of the fastest people in the NFL and Lance Armstrong has never done anything to show me that hes fast on his feet. Strength? Armstrong has exceptionally strong legs, yes, but strength is not limited to one muscle. For football we have this thing called The Big Three - its Bench, Squat and Clean and its a pretty fair representation of someone's strength (strength being fast-twitch muscle use, endurance being slow-twitch.) The only one of these lifts that Armstrong could hang with Vick on is the squat, and even that one is questionable. As far as flexibility and agility are concerned... Armstrong in a walk? Bullshit. Maybe Armstrong is more flexible than Vick... I honestly don't know the level of flexibility required for competitive bicycle riding - I DO know the level required for football and its much higher than most people think. I'm a 350 pound defensive tackle and some of the stretches I was required to do were incredibly difficult (even for the smaller guys) and would make the average person faint. Agility? Vick takes the walk on this one. Weaving a bike through a pile of twisted metal on some French road? Hard. Weaving through 11 WORLD CLASS athletes who are doing everything they can to chase you down and cause you massive physical harm? Much harder. And since you were wondering, throwing power and accuracy have been considered "athletic talent" since people started tossing around the discus, javeline and shotput... to the best of my recollection that was BEFORE bicycles were invented. Stamina belongs to Armstrong, and this one isn't even close, I'll give you that one any day of the week. I'm so tired of athletic elitists. They're no better than people who stand around in record stores wearing a vintage t-shirt, talking about how "Well I'VE been listening to Radiohead since before they even learned how to play instruments... they were so much better back then." Michael Vick is an incredible athlete. The man can throw a 60 yard pass from his knees, sprint 120 feet in around 4.3 seconds, throw a perfect spiral... in a dead run... across his body... being chased by people nearly twice his size... and have it land RIGHT in his reciever's hands - 30 yards down the field. If thats not athletic talent, please... tell me what is. I'm not taking anything away from Lance Armstrong, hes amazing. Hes dominated his sport like only one other man in history has done and hes done it after coming back from a life threatening disease. If the question was "Who dominates their sport better?" it would be Lance Armstrong without a second thought. For the question at hand, however, I believe Vick has a slight edge.

[nl5xsk1 0]

With more than 80,000 votes cast, it's decidedly in one athletes favor (I'm not going to say who, just in case people want to be surprised.)

 

But, suffice it to say, it's not even close and I'm not even a little surprised.

[Damaramu 0]

What everyone is doing is going off assumptions. For both men. What both men do requires tremendous athletic ability and which require's more is kind of up in the air. Mike has good reasons for why Armstrong is better and the rest of you have good reasons for why Vick is a good athlete.

However we have no idea how'd they'd actually do in head to head competition. So we're all assuming one can do something else better than the other having no idea how the other will perform.

Suffice to say.....this tourney is a joke and basically based off who you like or who impresses you more doing what they do. There's not actual basis for "Well he's a better athlete!"

[Ripper 0]

This all reminds me of that Nascar commercial that made me hate the "sport" even more.

 

The one where the guy is driving the car saying "You know, I really worry about those football players. I mean, what if you pull a groin. You could be out a week or two." while all these cars are crashing around him.

 

Bitch, you drive in a fucking circle for a living. The only thing slightly sports like about nascar is the pit crew. The fact they had the nerve to make that commercial pissed me off.

 

But it goes to show, people will say anything to make their point more known.

 

With that said, Lance and Mike train for two different things. Lance trains for endurance, Mike trains for speed and the intangebles in football. There is no definative way to say who the better athlete is.

[Guest Redhawk]

With more than 80,000 votes cast, it's decidedly in one athletes favor (I'm not going to say who, just in case people want to be surprised.)

 

But, suffice it to say, it's not even close and I'm not even a little surprised.

IT's RACIAL!!!

 

Just kidding. Actually, I believe the poll results more reflect how the public has bought into the media's infatuation with Armstrong more than anything else. Think about this, though. How many of the voters actually watch the Tour de France? They're just going off of what they've been told.