WMD found/used in Iraq.

[Downhome 0]

Here you go.

 

First from FoxNews...

 

BAGHDAD, Iraq — A roadside bomb containing sarin nerve agent exploded near a U.S. military convoy, but there were no casualties, the U.S. military said Monday. 

 

"The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found," said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt (search), the chief military spokesman in Iraq. "The round had been rigged as an IED (improvised explosive device) which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy.

 

"A detonation occurred before the IED could be rendered inoperable. This produced a very small dispersal of agent," he said.

 

 

And then from CNN...

 

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- American-led coalition forces in Iraq found sarin gas in an artillery round that was rigged as an improvised explosive device, U.S. Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said Monday.

 

The device went off before it could be disabled, Kimmitt said, causing a "small dispersal" of the nerve agent. Two members of an explosives ordnance team were treated for minor exposure, he said.

 

Kimmitt said the artillery round was of an old style that Saddam Hussein's regime had declared it no longer had after the Persian Gulf War. He said it was designed to explode after being fired from an artillery piece and that its effectiveness as an improvised explosive device was "limited."

 

Kimmitt did not say where the weapon was found nor did he say if it originated in Iraq.

 

They have said that it's not known if they have simply been holding back on using this in hopes to not change the world's view on things, or if it's something brand new that they've just got their hands on. All who came in contact with the sarin have already been released. If nothing else, this will more than likely promote yet another fear for all of the soldiers working over there.

 

Sincerely,

...Downhome...

[Guest Cerebus]

Um...SOURCE???

[Downhome 0]

Um...SOURCE???

Sorry about that. I've added the source for the first one, and another quote from another source as well.

[TheFranchise 0]

Please don't flame me for this,

 

the first thing that came to mind when i read the heading on the main page was 'it's a plant'

 

like i say, that's just what came to mind.

 

no flaming for being anti-usa please.

[Downhome 0]

Please don't flame me for this,

 

the first thing that came to mind when i read the heading on the main page was 'it's a plant'

 

like i say, that's just what came to mind.

 

no flaming for being anti-usa please.

Is it ok if I just go "My God" or "*sigh*"?

[Guest Kevin Malton]

Let's not get too excited about this. It was a very small amount of Sarin. Also, it doesn't prove that Saddam's Iraq had WMD. This shell could have come from anywhere..from any rebel or terrorist group. It does not mean that the claimed WMD that we were using to justify the war have been found.

[treble 0]

Is this actually a fabled WMD, anyway? Admittedly, I don't know much about sarin or weapons of this nature, but if they actually found one after all this searching, I figure the article would use the term 'WMD' in there somewhere.

[Guest Kevin Malton]

Fox News are now saying that this Sarin Bomb used to belong to Saddam (?) and was found by a terrorist group who in turn planted the bomb.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

Sarin is a chemical nerve gas agent pretty much banned by the world. It's not nice, and in decent quantities can kill thousands, tens of thousands, pretty easily.

 

Sarin was used in the subway attacks by a Japanese Cult in the mid-90s. It was used ineffectively, as proper use would've killed alot more people than it did.

 

A good-sized explosion of sarin (say a chemical plant storage facility would probably kill off a medium city)

 

I'll find a source for that, but they exposed such on Sixty Minutes 3 months ago, specifically referencing Pittsburgh and plants outlying it.

[Guest Cerebus]

I agree with Kevin. While I still doubt the idea that there weren't any NBCR weapons in Iraq in 2003, I wouldn't say this vindicates Bush (or the rest of the world for that matter) at all.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

It certainly doesn't point to Iraq having the fully functional clandestine WMD program we had figured.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

I didn't know enforcing 17 ceasefire violations and 12 UN resolutions required any vindication of all.

[Guest Kevin Malton]

The problem is, is the media and more importantly the government going to play up this find as THE Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Well, the media won't tell us about all of the positive things being done in Iraq, so why would they run with a story that makes Bush look good?

[Guest Cerebus]

A little more elaboration:

 

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A roadside bomb containing sarin exploded after it was discovered by U.S. soldiers in Iraq, releasing a “small quantity” of the deadly nerve agent but causing no casualties, a U.S. military spokesman said Monday.

 

Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said at a briefing in Baghdad that the bomb, which exploded "a couple of days ago" in the Iraqi capital, consisted of an old "binary-type" artillery shell that required the mixing of two chemical components in separate sections of the cell to produce the sarin.

 

"The cell is designed to work after being fired from an artillery piece," he said, adding that dispersing the substance from a device such as the homemade bomb "is virtually ineffective as a chemical weapon."

 

He said two U.S. soldiers were treated for exposure to the gas as a result of what he called a “partial detonation” of the round that resulted in "very small dispersal" of the nerve agent.

 

The source of the sarin was not immediately clear.

 

Also, it should be noted that Reuters reports:

 

Kimmitt said the round, designed to mix the sarin in flight, belonged to a class of ordnance that the ousted government of Saddam Hussein claimed to have destroyed before the 1991 Gulf war.

 

"It is a weapon that we believe was stocked from the ex-regime time, and it had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell set up to explode like an ordinary IED... when it exploded it indicated that it actually had some sarin in it," he said.

[Downhome 0]

FoxNews is now reporting that mustard gas was found in shells in Iraq two weeks ago, from a believed stockpile of around 500.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Looking at this stuff, it sounds like terrorist organizations have themselves some old shitty poison gas and don't really know how to use it effectively. They probably got a two for one deal from Saddam back in '89.

[JangoFett4Hire 0]

Wasn't sarin used in that attack on the Kurds in the late-80's?

[Murmuring Beast 0]

Who is Kevin Malton?

[Guest BDC]

I think the appropriate statement is "Who was Kevin..."

 

Anyway, while this isn't a be all forgive all ticket, it does change the paradigm a bit, or I think it should. I know I had one smarmy professor that blatantly stated that Iraq never had serin: ever. They used mustard gas on the Kurds and so on.

[Firestarter 0]

one smarmy professor... blatantly stated that Iraq never had serin: ever.  They used mustard gas on the Kurds and so on.

Hilarious. God knows what they did use on the Kurds and the marsh tribes - we sure as hell don't, not even now, not even after years of testing. Most reports I've seen, the best guess available is that it was various cocktails of sarin, VX-related leftovers, and biological agents. Makes for less than pleasant reading.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

What kind of coalition group would be armed with such an agent?

 

My first impression was that they stole it from US forces.

[Guest Cerebus]

What kind of coalition group would be armed with such an agent?

 

My first impression was that they stole it from US forces.

Answer: none. This type of artillery shell is a converted from a normal artillery shell in order to help faccilitate the spread of whatever vile chemical is inside. Instead of landing on the ground and exploding like a normal shell it is designed to "pop" in the air spreading its contents over a large percentage of the area it is over. There is no purpose for this kind of shell to be in a military that is using conventional munitions.

 

BTW, here is what UNMOVIC's last report has to say about these types of munitions:

 

Although Iraq had the capability to produce 155-mm chemical projectiles, it declared that some 85,000 suitable empty projectiles were imported for subsequent filling. Of the 70,000 projectiles filled with chemical agents, principally Mustard, more than 54,000 were declared as expended between 1984 and 1988 and 13,500 as remaining before the Gulf War.

 

Iraq primarily filled 155-mm projectiles with high purity Mustard that remained stable during long-term storage. However, Iraq also provided some information and documents on the development and tests of 155-mm binary nerve agent (Sarin and Cycolosarin) projectiles. UNSCOM found several examples of these munitions at the Muthanna State Establishment. Iraq stated that, despite positive test results, no industrial-scale production of binary 155-mm projectiles occurred.

 

Iraq declared that it had unilaterally converted approximately 15,500 empty 155-mm artillery projectiles, purchased for chemical warfare use, into conventional high explosive munitions in 1992-93. UNSCOM attempted to verify the disposition of these munitions and found approximately 1,800 of these projectiles at the Babylon Ammunition Depot. UNSCOM was satisfied with its findings and did not pursue the matter further.

 

Iraq has provided a number of explanations regarding the disposition of approximately 550 unaccounted for Mustard filled 155-mm projectiles. UNSCOM, having determined that the Mustard contained in Iraq’s 155-mm projectiles was likely to remain stable for a long period, treated this issue as a serious matter. The high purity of Sulphur Mustard contained in artillery shells, after over 12 years of storage, was recently confirmed by UNMOVIC.

 

...

 

Regarding the missing 550 Mustard filled 155-mm projectiles, UNMOVIC has been unable to resolve the status of these items and remains concerned due to their probable military utility. According to an investigation made by the Iraqi “Depot Inspection Commission”, the results of which were reported to UNMOVIC in March 2003, the discrepancy in the accounting for the mustard filled shells could be explained by the fact that Iraq had based its accounting in the 2002 CAFCD on approximations. The new accounting will be reviewed by UNMOVIC.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Interesting. It seems more to me like someone from Al-Qaeda or similar groups got them a hook-up with this stuff, but nobody really knows how to use it effectively.

 

I doubt someone said "Hey, guys, let's go to Saddam's Secret Stash!"

[Guest Cerebus]

Update: 10 days ago the Coalition found Mustard Gas shells.

[Zorin Industries 0]

These really just seem to be some old armaments that have been lying around gathering dust, not the huge WMD programs that were talked up before the invasion. No-one is really saying anything to the contary at the moment.

[teke184 0]

Even if Iraq didn't have a fully functioning WMD program, stuff like this laying around certainly makes it look like Saddam violated the UN sanctions that said they were supposed to account for all of this stuff and then destroy it under controlled conditions.

[Guest TheAustralian]

Just one note guys,

 

I cant understand people preaching about Iraq breaking UN sanctions, everyone breaks them, Australia has, America has, the UK have.

 

Its amazing that we can sit back and say they justify the war, while we ourselves ignore them,

 

 

As for this Sarin gas, its such a tiny amount, trust fox news to hype it up.

 

I have always believed Iraq do have chemical weapons somewhere, we know this because we helped them get them.

 

To me this is not earth shattering,

 

Also we must remember the USA has stated many times that many of the Iraqi fighters are actually people that have crossed the border from Iran and Syria.

 

So its quite plausible that this weapon came from there

[Guest Cerebus]

I cant understand people preaching about Iraq breaking UN sanctions, everyone breaks them, Australia has, America has, the UK have.

 

Its amazing that we can sit back and say they justify the war, while we ourselves ignore them,

 

Care to speicfy which SC resolutions they've broken?

 

As for this Sarin gas, its such a tiny amount, trust fox news to hype it up.

 

"Hype it up?" The story just broke and was reported on all the news wires and was picked up by just about every media. I don't know how Fox News "hyped it up." By reporting it along with every major news outlet on the planet?

 

I have always believed Iraq do have chemical weapons somewhere, we know this because we helped them get them.

 

To me this is not earth shattering,

 

Wrong.

 

Also we must remember the USA has stated many times that many of the Iraqi fighters are actually people that have crossed the border from Iran and Syria.

 

So its quite plausible that this weapon came from there

 

Plausible but I havn't heard of reports of 155mm binary agent delivery artillery shells coming out of Syria. I have, however, heard of UNMOVIC's reports saying that there was a large number of unaccounted for Sarin in Iraq before he was toppled.

[BX 0]

Yes.

 

Syria.

 

Man the camels Rummy, we're heading in.