MMA June PPV Double-Shot II~!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Last June had the OUTSTANDING UFC 43: Meltdown card and the okayish PRIDE 26: Bad to the Bone card. This year, each promotion turns up the heat as the Ultimate Fighting Championship brings YOU their UFC 48 card that is all about PAYBACK and the PRIDEFC continues their Heavyweight Grand Prix as 8 fighters meet in a Critical Countdown.

 

 

UFC 48: Payback // Saturday, June 19th 2004 // 10:00 PM EST

UFC Website

 

Fight Card

 

Ken Shamrock vs. Kimo

 

Tim Sylvia vs. Frank Mir for Heavyweight Championship

 

Matt Hughes vs. Renato Verissimo

 

Phil Baroni vs. Evan Tanner

 

Curtis Stout vs. Trevor Prangley

 

Dennis Hallman vs. Frank Trigg

 

Matt Serra vs. Ivan Menjivar

 

Georges St. Pierre vs. Jay Hieron

 

Mir vs. Syliva promotional video

 

 

PRIDEFC Heavyweight Grand Prix Stage 2: Critical Countdown // Sunday, June 20th 2004 // 9:00 PM EST

 

PRIDEFC Website

 

Grand Prix Match Ups:

 

Fedor Emelieneko vs. Kevin Randleman

 

Giant Silva vs. Naoya Ogawa

 

Sergei Kharitonov vs. Semmy Schilt

 

Heath Herring vs. Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera

 

---

 

Additional Matches:

 

For the rank of #1 middleweight:

Quinton “Rampage” Jackson (USA) vs. Ricardo Arona (Brazil)

The winner of this match will be positioned for a title shot in October 2004

 

Kazushi Sakuraba (Japan) vs. Antonio “Nino” Schembri (Brazil)

 

Hidehiko Yoshida (Brazil) vs. Mark Hunt (New Zealand)

 

 

 

Like last year, there will be Fight and Fighter profiles and analysis along with some great discussion. I am greatly looking forward to both events (even Shamrock / Kimo) and it will be fun seeing guys like Verissimo, Kharitonov, St. Pierre, Menjivar (~!), Sylvia, Fedor, Nog, Hughes (holy crap is this list getting long!), and hell even RANDLEMAN go at it in the ring.

[Guest CurryMan]

The UFC card is eh I only look forward to Sylvia vs Mir there actually.

 

I believe that Pride will be better, there are talk about Rampage being back, and Sakuraba will have a match. And probebly some nice matchups in the grand prix.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I really like the UFC card, and if they show some of the prelims OOOH BOY!

 

Ken Shamrock vs. Kimo

 

There is no actual reason for this; no point. BUT, if they have Royce Gracie doing commentary, this would be the greatest match of all time. Hell, if they could do gimmicks, a "Shamrock vs. Kimo with Royce Gracie as special guest referee" would soooo = ratings. I look forward to this because it won't go to a decision. There will be a finish. Plus, the crowd loves Kimo for some reason.

 

Tim Sylvia vs. Frank Mir for Heavyweight Championship

 

Is Mir the real deal or will be get ran over? Either way, this won't go to a decision (RRR loves his finishes!) and someone is bound to get hurt.

 

Matt Hughes vs. Renato Verissimo

 

How can you NOT look forward to this?! Verissimo dominated Newton in his UFC debut and showed well rounded skills. Hughes wants revenge (ok, he doesn't... he was actually kinda happy to lose to BJ... but you can make your own story here) and Verissimo, BJ's BJJ trainer, is the method inwhich he'll extract it. I'm watching this to see how good Verissimo is, and if he wins, who can stop him??

 

Phil Baroni vs. Evan Tanner

 

I really enjoyed their first fight which was a balls-out slugfest (or something similar to) and this should be no different.

 

Curtis Stout vs. Trevor Prangley

 

Who?

 

Dennis Hallman vs. Frank Trigg

 

This should be really fun.

 

Matt Serra vs. Ivan Menjivar

 

If there is any justice at all in this world, they will air this fight.

 

Georges St. Pierre vs. Jay Hieron

 

C'mon, St. Pierre is going to be huge and they still don't want to put him on PPV. Dumb Zuffa.

[Lei Tong 0]

Early predictions:

 

UFC

 

Ken Shamrock vs. Kimo Leopoldo

- THIS is a main event? Ugh. Anyways, I say Kimo msotly because he hasn't looked like a broken-down pardoy of himself. Kimo via TKO, Rd.2

 

Tim Sylvia vs. Frank Mir

- Sylvia via KO rather easily. Mir hasn't shown any significant takedown or stand-up skills, both of which he would need to even last long enough to try and utilize his submission skills. Thrown in a horrible gas tank, and this doesn't look to competitive.

 

Matt Hughes vs. Renato Verissimo

- Verrisimo via JD. Though the Carlos Newton he totally handled seemed to totally out of it, Verrissimo showed great all around skills (as he did vs. Gil Castillo in Hawaii). And although Hughes will probably take this fight more seriously than his alst bout vs. Penn, the fact he's facing Penn's instrcutor is probably somewhere in the abck of his mind.

 

 

Phil Baroni vs. Evan Tanner

- As much as I hate to say it, if Tanner hasn't properly learned to close the distance to utilize the thai clicnh and takedowns, Baroni takes his head off with punches for an early KO.

 

Curtis Stout vs. Trevor Prangley

- Murray's visa problems are karma for UFC trying to bring in someone like Stout to protect & safely build up the English fighter. Prangley's definitely got the goods though, having already faced and betaen some top competition, and will probably be even more dangerous at 185. Prangley via submission, Rd.2

 

Dennis Hallman vs. Frank Trigg

- Rematch to one of the worst fight outcomes in recent MMA history. I've never really bought the Trigg hype, as I always felt he got credit due more to his mouht and close fight vs. Sakurai. Hallman is a bit incosistent at times, but I think he's got the skills on the ground to submit Trigg late.

 

Matt Serra vs. Ivan Menjivar

- Actually haven't seen much of Menjivar (I don't follow Canadian MMA as much as I should), but have heard plenty of good things about him. However, even with Serra still being somewhat limited (though his submission game is nigh without par), he'll have quite the size advantage over Menjivar, much as he did vs. Jeff Curran (Serra fought originally at 169, while Curran & Menjivar are msot effective at 143). Serra via JD.

 

Georges St. Pierre vs. Jay Hieron

- I realize he wasn't the first choice (Jason Miller was), but Hieron is one of the least deserving fighters awarded a UFC shot in recent memory. None of his opponents have a win amongst them. Come on. St. Pierre has shown to have some skills, and is a very powerful WW, so I see no reaosn he shouldn't take this.

 

PRIDE:

 

Naoya Ogawa vs. Giant Silva

- Geez, you think they want Ogawa in the semi's? But hey, at least this one match they won't need to work for him. Ogawa via sub, RD.2

 

Sergei Kharitnonov vs. Heath Herring

- Herring looked good in last fight, but even the smaller, older, and limited Takahashi gave him some problems. Of course, Sergei looked suceptable to the strikes of the much smaller Murilo Rua, but I still think he has what it takes to get past Herring. Kharitonov via JD.

 

Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera vs. Semmy Schilt

- Um, the result this time around is suppsoed to be different how? Schilt still has trouble stopping the takedown, gives positoning up easily, and although his long arms help stop G&P, they'll make inviting targets for Nog's subs. Noguiera via sub, RD.1

 

Fedor Emelianenko vs. Kevin Randleman

- Assuming Fedor doesn't fall into the trap of overconfidence he had vs. Fujita (and Cro Cop did vs. Randleman), I think he takes this one, but not without attrition. Randleman is extremely strong and a good wrestler, yet he lacks the finishing skills even of Coleman, so while he may put Fedor in a bad spot, I think the Russian find his way out and takes over. Fedor via TKO, RD.2

 

Mark Hunt vs. Hidehiko Yoshida

- Ugh. Yoshida wins in another match in spite of looking inept and nothing special. Yoshida via. sub, Rd.1

 

Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Antonio Schembri

- Assuming Sakuraba's can hold up to the awesome fury that is Schmebri's windmill slaps, I think he finishes the job he should've gotten done the first time. Sakuraba via JD.

 

Quinton Jackson vs. Ricardo Arona

- Talk about opposites: Jackson is reckless to point of often putting himself in precarious positions to escape from, while Arona has rarely if ever taken a chance in competition. While the combination leads me to believe may actually catch Quinton and *GASP*... finish him, I'm going to go with my heart and say Quinton ctaches him late in the fight for a TKO.

[Lei Tong 0]

RRR: Do yourself a favor and pay attention to Prangley.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

All I know about Prangley is he looks like Josh Barnetts mini me

 

Eyes shall be opened.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Ogawa should have fought one of the two guys that called him out, but then again we all know that that would require some testicular fortitude on his part. Do the Japanese really need a Japanese star to get behind? They don't need to push all of these guys, the next Sakuraba doesn't have to be Japanese....or does he?

 

Where have all these matches been confirmed, in regards to the PRIDE card? I have been skeptical of MMA news sources other than the official websites since they generally work on rumour and such. Speaking of which...

 

 

Apparently Chuck is rumoured to take on Vernon White at UFC 49. I saw this on Sherdog. That's just a rumour, but yeah, anyone know if there's truth to this?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I heard Tito vs. Vern.

 

If the PRIDE card changes, the card changes.

 

Ogawa is god.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

"According to the fan survey, the fight that most people wanted to see (with Ogawa) was Ogawa vs. Nogueira (2nd overall with 6678 votes); however, as promoters, we felt that we wanted to see this match in the finals so we made an exception. This left Ogawa vs. Heath (6th overall with 4876 votes) and Ogawa vs. Silva (8th overall with 4332 votes). However, we did not feel that Heath is either stronger physically or technically than Ogawa. Silva on the other hand has an advantage over Ogawa. Both physically and in terms of ability, he is above Ogawa, and we want to see how Ogawa will deal with this. We felt strongly that heath would be overwhelmed so we went with Silva as the selection"

 

Contradicted by...

 

The fight that most fans wanted to see was Fedor vs. Randleman. With 10656 votes, this fight took a long time to arrange. Sakakibara states "The fans voices comes first, so we tried are very best to make this fight a reality, however, Randleman was not easy to convince. For the opening rounds, Randleman requested the fight with Mirko, however ever since he beat Mirko, he has higher ambitions. Randleman said he wanted to avoid fighting Fedor in the next round but we were able to convince him to take the fight in order to avenge Colemans loss" In addition, if Randleman defeats Fedor in his next fight, beating 2 of the "big 3," Sakakibara says "there is a very high possibility that he will be in contention for the HW title."

 

I think we all knew that the winner of Silva/Sentoryu would be facing Ogawa, even when they announced the matchup, but still, there's no need to bring the Texas Crazy Horse into this. Slap in the face to Heath in my opinion. You could lie about why Ogawa is facing Silva, but you don't have to shit on Heath in order to make that point. Here's hoping all 350 lbs of Silva is packed into one punch where he KO's Ogawa.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

FUCK YOU!

OGAWA RULES!!

 

HUSTLE! HUSTLE!

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I don't know how to respond, so I'll just say that FCF has said that talk in BTT is that Herring will be taking on Noguiera. I don't know how valid that is though.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Yeap, just like I figured:

 

Click the link, then click on Fight Card and that should clear things up

[Lei Tong 0]

Okay, my thoughts on changed fights:

 

Kharitonov vs. Schilt- I see this one being similar to Fedor/Schilt, but with a few differences: Kharitonov's questionable ( if only because he's yet to need it) cardio, his succeptability to strikes standing (if Rua could catch, imagine what a guy with 11 inches taller than that will do), and superior submissions from the top. While the previous two make this fight a lot closer on paper than Schilt's fight with Fedor was in the ring, I think Kahritonov will be be able to use his G&P from the top until Semmy gives up an arm as usual, and from there Kharitonov gets the sub via armbar, Rd.1

 

Noguiera vs. Herring- For whatever reason, this match does little for me. I'm pretty sure it'll be exciting with herring's submission defense, but I just don't see anyway Herring can beat Noguiera, even should he land one of his big sloppy high kicks/knees. Noguiera via JD, again.

[AboveAverage484 0]

 

Ogawa sucks and so does Hustle-3!

 

And yeah, Herring is fighting Silva, while Schilt takes on Sergei.

 

Predictions:

 

UFC 48

 

Ken Shamrock vs. Kimo

Kimo by submission at 1:57 of round 1.

 

Tim Sylvia vs. Frank Mir

Sylvia by TKO at 3:34 of round 1.

 

Matt Hughes vs. Renato Verissimo

Hughes by submission at 3:13 of round 2.

 

Phil Baroni vs. Evan Tanner

Tanner by submission at 0:55 of round 2.

 

Curtis Stout vs. Trevor Prangley

Prangley by submission sometime in 1st round.

 

Dennis Hallman vs. Frank Trigg

Trigg by submission at 2:59 of 2nd round.

 

Matt Serra vs. Ivan Menjivar

Serra by decision.

 

Georges St. Pieree vs. Jay Hieron

St. Pierre by submission 3:32 of round 1.

[Guest CurryMan]

Damn, I was more looking forward to Herring facing Sergei then these two fights they have made. I feel sorry for Randleman he deserves a place in the semi-finals after his knock against Mirko, because I can´t see him winning against Fedor but it could be an exciting fight.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Fuck, I just realized something. It Randleman wins this tournament, he will have won the toughest tournament in MMA history. If he beats Fedor, he'll most likely meet Nogueira somewhere and another opponent. That means he will have beaten the top three pride heavyweights.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Fuck, I just realized something. It Randleman wins this tournament, he will have won the toughest tournament in MMA history. If he beats Fedor, he'll most likely meet Nogueira somewhere and another opponent. That means he will have beaten the top three pride heavyweights.

He won't beat Fedor.

 

Even if he did, Nog is a bad matchup for him.

 

Even if he did beat Nog, then I'm wrong.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Yeah I'm just saying it because Randleman is the only one with that chance. Fedor and Nogueira obviously can't beat the top three because they're in the top three, no one else can eliminate Crocop because Randleman did it. So out of the remaining "non top 3", Randleman is the only one with the possibiity of doing it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

YOUR Heavyweight Tournament Fight and FIGHTERS of the day ARE:

 

Heath Herring vs. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira

 

 

Name: Heath Herring

Nickname: The Texas Crazy Horse

Record: 22 -9 - 0

Height/Weight: 6’4 / 250 lbs.

Style: Wrestling/Muay Thai

From: U.S.A.

Birthdate: 03/02/1978

 

Last Fight: vs. Yoshiki Takahashi (Win *KO* - PRIDE HW GP: Total Elimination 2004)

Notable Fight: vs. Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera (Loss *Decision* - PRIDE 17: Championship Chaos)

 

 

 

Name: Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera

Nickname: Minotauro

Record: 22 -2 -1

Height/Weight: 6’3 / 231 lbs.

Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

From: Brazil

Birthdate: 06/02/1976

 

Last Fight: vs. Hirotaka Yokoi (Win *Sub/Choke* - PRIDE HW GP: Total Elimination 2004)

Notable Fight: vs. Heath Herring (Win *Decision* - PRIDE 17: Championship Chaos)

 

2 1/2 years ago, the PRIDE Heavyweight Championship had it’s first champion: It was Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera. The man who could have been champion, Noguiera’s opponent, was Heath Herring. Since then, the two men have travelled similar, yet very different paths. Noguiera held on to that title, defending it in memorable bout after memorable bout. He was a true champion; he was on top of the world. Herring, on the other hand, did not get to bask in the same light as his peer. Rather than living up to the name he made that night in the Tokyo Dome, going the distance with the most dominant heavyweight the sport has ever seen, he instead played a much different role.

 

Fedor.

 

Cro Cop.

 

They both fought -and destroyed- the Texas Crazy Horse. They both went on to compete for the title (in Fedor’s case, he won it. In Cro Cop’s, it was for the interim title). They both made their names off of Heath Herring.

 

Now, Herring has a chance to make it all right again. After 4 straight wins in the span of 5 months, the TCH is back-on-track and could very-well finish what he, what they, started 2 1/2 years ago. But this won’t be for any title -oh no- this is just for a chance to be the top dog of the sport. A spot many feel is reserved for one Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera.

 

“Minotauro” is carrying a lot of weight on his bronzed shoulders, perhaps more than he ever carried as champion. He *has to* win this tournament. The expectations for him are THAT high. Anything less than being crowed the Grand Prix champion is failure. But no task is too great for Noguiera, because he is THAT good. In his last bout, Noguiera showed that he can still shock and surprise as he finished his very-game opponent in Yokoi with an unconventional front-triangle choke that has no-doubt been practiced and duplicated in dojos across the globe. This ingenuity is what differentiates Noguiera from the rest. That is why he is still considered to be the best heavyweight in the world by many, despite suffering a one-sided loss to the current champion, Fedor. You can put Noguiera in any situation and he’ll not only get out of it, but he’ll get the best of it.

 

Herring vs. Noguiera is a testament to that uncanny ability. Noguiera not only out-grappled Herring, but he out-struck him as well. In what many considered today to be one of the best matches in MMA history, Noguiera proved himself in a championship calibre performance. Every facet of the game Noguiera looked to have mastered, and coupled with his knack for absorbing punishment, it’s hard to believe that anyone can knock him out or submit him. Noguiera is the favourite to win this tournament, and since both men have improved their game since PRIDE 17, this match has the possibility of bettering its predecessor. The question now is, which man has improved more?

[Guest CurryMan]

Very nice written.

 

I hope you all heard about the news about Fedor and Randleman. Fedor was in a car accident in high speed, but he didnt suffor more then bruises. Randleman has had some problem with his father passing away. But both men will be there to fight, lets see if any of this can have an impact on the outcome.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

If Fedor was the least bit hurt, he wouldn't fight. Fedor -at this stage of the game- knows how to pick his fights. Randleman, on the other hand, seems to be the kind of guy that would be affected by "this sort of thing" - and that's not a knock on him, he's human, but I can see it hurting him rather than driving him.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

WHO did you say was the favourite to win? I think you should rephrase. While it's a failure if he comes in less than first, Noguiera's certainly not the top dog, and really is expected by most to come in second. There's no doubt in my mind he wins this fight though.

 

There's no question that Fyodor is the odds-on favourite. One particular person might think he could lose, but the fact remains that when you look at it based on performance, he's the favourite. I hope Noguiera beats him though.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

As much as I love Fedor, Noguiera has better adaptability in the ring. You can put him up against _any_ fighter in the tournament, and he'd be the favourite to win. Do you think that holds true for Fedor? How many people said he'd get his ass handed to him by Cro Cop? Many people still feel that Noguiera can take him in a rematch, cause with Nog, the difference between his guard and a tap out is measured in very short seconds.

 

Noguiera has proven he can overcome getting his ass whopped and come back - he has been tested time and time again. Fedor hasn't. I don't have to rephrase anything, cause the majority of people I read, they say Noguiera is the favourite; thus making him, the favourite.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

The majority I read have placed Fyodor, but whatever. This is the point; whose more dominant now? Fyodor. Whose won their last bout? Fyodor. Whose just taken out the returning GP Champion? Fyodor took the title of being the Number One Heavyweight in the world when he beat Noguiera. He hasn't lost it since, and no matter what you think *might* happen, the bottom line is that right now, he's number one. Does that mean he's better than Noguiera? I don't know, let's see the inevitable rematch in the finals. I think Noguiera could win, but he *hasn't* yet. Like I said, until that happens, Fyodor is number one.

 

Trust me, Nog's my favourite fighter, but he's a clear Number Two right now. Look at it this way; Fyodor has nothing to prove by winning, it's just a nice statistic. Noguiera DOES have something to prove, he still has to prove that he can submit Fyodor. Fyodor already beat the shit out of him. We're talking about the NOW after all. I'll leave you with this nifty little interview bit right here:

 

Pride : Everyone at the Grand Prix will be after you, the Champion. Did you feel that at the press conference?

 

Fedor : Really? I didn't feel that at all. (laughing)

 

Pride : Nogueira looks like he's thinking “I want to beat you in a rematch” whenever he looks at you.

 

Fedor : He looked nervous at the press conference. Thanks for telling me why. (laughing)

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Sakuraba beat Rampage, does that mean he was a bigger favourite in the tournament than Jackson? FEDOR ( ) is the top fighter in terms of position, however, in this tournament Noguiera is better money to bank on. Why? Because Noguiera has a better chance at beating _any_ competition than Fedor does. Fedor -while brilliant- does not have the same adaptibility as Noguiera. He had not faced the same calibre of opposition -and variety- that Nog has. Against Tim Sylvia, who do you think would be more guaranteed to win? Against Cro Cop? Against Randleman? With Fedor there is a bit of doubt, a doubt that I don't have with Nog. Cause Nog can take a brutal beating and still manage to pull it out. Fedor hasn't been tested like Nog has, he hasn't been pushed the edge and rallied to come back (and if you say Fujita, you'd have me saying right back "Nog would have taken that shot better").

[Guest NCJ]

I usually agree with you RRR, but I think you are wrong when it comes to who is the favorite. Firstly the comparison you give dosen't work. If after beating Jackson Sak would have stayed undefeated while dominating all of his oposition then sure he would have been the favorite. However even then it would have still been a bad comparison because Rampage was new to PRIDE in that fight, and he isn't even in his prime yet. He is only 23 and still learning. Nog has already reached his prime. Nog hasn't mad any drastic changes to his game since the fight with Fedor. He really isn't going to get much better than he is right now. Fedor dominated him totally the first time the fought. While it is possible that Nog can submit him from his back anytime they fight we have seen Nog in that position before and he couldn't get it done. Fedor has still not lost. Nog meanwhile has had two fights that were very difficult before the Grand Prix. One he won on a controversial decision, and the other he won in one of the greatest fights ever. Neither win was dominating. Fedor has to be the favorite because while there is a chance for him to be knocked out, he has dominated good strikers, wrestlers, and submission artist before. He beat the only other man in the tournament that is considered a favorite in dominating fashion. He is still undefeated and he is the champ. He really has to be the favorite in this thing. Just like Silva was the favorite in the Middleweight Grand Prix.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I usually agree with you RRR, but I think you are wrong when it comes to who is the favorite. Firstly the comparison you give dosen't work. If after beating Jackson Sak would have stayed undefeated while dominating all of his oposition then sure he would have been the favorite.

You made the point I was gonna make. That's a false analogy, since the situation isn't comparable. Fyodor has not lost since his win over Nog, the win over Nog was in recent past, Nog hasn't drastically improved in areas that would tell us that he can clearly beat Fyodor, unlike Rampage has after he ran through the competition following his debut. In addition, Sakuraba was beat like what, three times since then? His only victory I believe was against Gilles Arsene. Who? Exactly. It's not the same thing.

 

How can Nog beat Fyodor? By doing the same thing he did last time. That will be his strategy again obviously, you said yourself it's about submitting him in the triangle. It's not like Rampage, who had brought out an all new set of skills since the Sak match, but I'll stop with that. Fyodor can do the same thing he did last time. Nog can't.

 

As for adaptability, Noguiera barely got a win over Cro Cop. He got lucky when Cro Cop exposed himself with the buck. He didn't do much in his triangle. If anything, I would say that Fyodor is more versatile, since he has better standup, is a better wrestler, and has a better ground game from the top, as shown by his wicked GnP.

 

Nog has proven that he can come back from a beating. He hasn't proven that he can come back from a Fyodor beating. If you want to bring up the Fujita fight, fine. I'd say that Noguiera wouldn't have been able to take him down, and he doesn't have nearly the same agression that Fyodor has in his standup to dominate a fight standing. He would not have delivered the liver kick that set up the choke obviously. If anything, it's a BAD styles matchup for him.

 

Look at the fights they've had against the same people. Goodridge, Herring, Schilt, Coleman. The only fight where Nog looked more impressive was Schilt.

 

Let's look at the remaining possible match ups, discluding Ogawa or Silva, since they're not taken seriously anyway:

 

Herring: Been done, I don't see Nog submitting him this time, and I don't see him getting a KO or TKO. If anything, Nog would just get the decision, which I expect. Herring's stand up has actually improved though, so we should find out. I don't see what Herring could do against Fyodor any differently, as he threw him around like a 250 lb ragdoll, and rearranged his face afterwards. Fyodor clearly is the better wrestler.

 

Randleman: Fyodor can out strike him, and can probably get the knockdown at the very least. This is a bad matchup for him though, it will be like Coleman all over again. If Randleman was smart he'd keep it standing in a fight with Nog. Randleman's boxing skills have been improving, and we obviously have seen the result of that against Cro Cop. Nog's stand up skills are really good, but I can't see him doing much with it since he probably can't finish a fight standing due to his passive style. I'd expect Fyodor to look more impressive in this, since his standup is much more effective.

 

Kharitanov: Mini Fyodor, well not really, he's bigger. I expect him to be the worst for Fyodor due to the size and as a result would be harder to fight standing up. They came from the same camp, and from what I've seen their styles are very similar. This is ironically the worst matchup for Fyodor. I am unsure though of his skills on the ground, although they should be pretty damn good all things considered. Could Nog submit him? Probably, I'd say this one's in Nog's favour since he's got question mark written all over him, and the fact that he reminds me of Fyodor so much, but probably inferior. Who knows though.

 

Schilt: Nog looked more impressive in this fight obviously. I doubt Fyodor would let it go to a decision again, this time he'd probably go for the submission victory if he could get it. That's an if though, so I will just give this edge to Nog too.

 

So I guess 2-2? Well the deciding vote would be for when they faced each other, and I already explained that away so....

 

Fyodor is the spelling of Fyodor Dostoyevsky along with a bunch of other Russian people, so I assume it's correct. That's also how you pronounce it. I just chalk it up to "lack of professionalism" on the part of PRIDE when it comes to the spelling. Oh well, that's not WWE bush league. Chris Benoit from Atlanta? Suuuuure.

 

Well that was a long fucking post.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

One thing at a time...

 

About "Sakuraba/Rampage":

 

How did I know that one tiny analogy would have been given so much attention? YPOV was working from the "Fedor beat Nog, so until Nog can beat Fedor...Fedor is the favourite." premise. That's it. Any surrounding factors are meaningless - Sakuraba beat Jackson, yet Jackson was a bigger favourite (if not THE favourite) to win the MW GP. Yes, Jackson was a younger fighter then; but then again, Sakuraba wasn't exactly 100% healthy. I could say that Noguiera had to do a lot of interviews and promotional stuff the day of his fight with Fedor and had to get some sleep in his car - which is true. But none of this matters because YPOV was working from a strictly W/L premise. My justification had very little to do with Wins and Losses - because W/L's don't always define who has a better chance at winning - it had to do with styles and the fighter himself.

 

About "Fedor/Fyodor":

 

His official websites domain name has his name spelled "Fedor"

 

fedor.bel.ru

 

If anything, his last name should be changed. Do a search for

 

Fedor Emelianenko

Fedor Emelyanenko

Fyodor Emelyanenko

 

Hell, you don't have to. The first try well spell check you with the second one and give you the link to his site. The third one? Nothing.

 

...now that the meaningless things are out of the way...

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

You are missing the point Paragon.

 

It doesn't matter "who wins more convincingly", it's about "who will win _more_." Nog is more of a sure-bet than Fedor, in every match. Vs. Randleman? Nog. Easy - doesn't matter how he does it, decision or submission, he'll get it. Fedor? Not so easy. Randleman will be more cautious and won't make the same mistake Coleman did. There is a ??? there. There is some doubt. I personally want Fedor to take it all, but I still have doubt. Kharitonov? Vs. Nog - Does he have the stand-up skills of Cro Cop? I doubt it. Nog weathered a more severe storm than that, and sub'd better grapplers (Hendo). Fedor? I'd love to see it, but again, it's another question mark. These two fights, the difference between Fedor and Nog here is, the difference between "if" and "when".

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

As for adaptability, Noguiera barely got a win over Cro Cop. He got lucky when Cro Cop exposed himself with the buck. He didn't do much in his triangle.

 

You've got to be kidding me? Noguiera was not lucky, he _made_ Cro Cop expose himself. I don't know how you can "barely" get a win when you sub a guy and make him cry, but this really isn't about that. Cro Cop threw everything he had at Nog and Nog still won. Do you think Fedor could survive that punishment? I mean, I think Fedor would beat Cro Cop personally, but if he was put in that position - do you think he'd be as successful as Nog?

 

If anything, I would say that Fyodor is more versatile, since he has better standup, is a better wrestler, and has a better ground game from the top, as shown by his wicked GnP.

 

I wouldn't say he has better stand up. Nog throws more combinations and works the jabs better. He throws knees and leg kicks more often. I love the fact that Fedor has trained with Golden Glory and hope to see this area improve, but I don't think he has really shown "better" standup just because he put down Goodridge and Nagata. Powerful punches are one thing, but Nog has shown better _skills_ standing.

 

"Ground game from the top" is too general. Fedor has better "in the guard" work, and also for sidemount and back control, but in terms of mount position, Nog is better. They have two different strategies and neither are better or worse - Nog works to get the mount while Fedor doesn't have an exact gameplan; he just likes smashing . Each man -when put in any of these positions- will do well. Nog has a better guard.

 

In terms of "wrestling" (takedowns?), I wouldn't say that Fedor is "better" here either. They, again, are different. If Nog wants the fight to be on the ground, it will inevitably end up on the ground. The fight with Cro Cop was a testiment to this. Fedor can do this too, but his style doesn't necessarily compensate for when he can't take them down. I LOVE the fact that he was able to armbar Coleman, but I'd love to see him on the ground again to fully get the depth of his guard skills.

 

Nog has proven that he can come back from a beating. He hasn't proven that he can come back from a Fyodor beating.

 

This is rather silly. He proven that he can comeback from a Cro Cop beating. He took kicks that broke ribs, he took punches that broke orbital bones. As much as I loved Fedors GnP display, Cro Cops beating was worse. Do you think Fedor could come back from that? You are putting too much emphasis on "Fedor beat Nog" - it seems like you're resting your entire argument on that point. It's not about Fedor vs. Nog, it's about Nog vs. Everyone else, Fedor vs. Everyone else, and how each would fair. Overall, Nog would fair better.

 

If you want to bring up the Fujita fight, fine. I'd say that Noguiera wouldn't have been able to take him down, and he doesn't have nearly the same agression that Fyodor has in his standup to dominate a fight standing. He would not have delivered the liver kick that set up the choke obviously. If anything, it's a BAD styles matchup for him.

 

He got Coleman on the ground. Fujita is not a Coleman level grappler. With Nog, it's inevitable. Here's how the fight would go: Nog "tests out the waters" with jabs and low kicks, Fujita fakes some shoot attempts and does nothing but back away from Nog, Nog tries for a take down, Fujita avoids... repeat until Nog finally takes Fujita down or pulls him into his guard.

 

Look at the fights they've had against the same people. Goodridge, Herring, Schilt, Coleman. The only fight where Nog looked more impressive was Schilt.

 

You understate his performance vs. Gary. "Quicker Result" does not necessarily = "better result". I know Gary took the fight on short notice, but Noguieras ground work in this fight was masterful. He dominated on the ground much in the same way Fedor dominated standing. However, Fedor had a bit of an advantage in knowing that Gary just liked to block shots and weather the storm rather than fight back. Each had his own strategy, and each executed it perfectly. I personally think Noguieras strategy showed more skill. The Herring fight, yes, Fedor made his name here. Great work, Herring didn't know what hit him. Coleman is a tricky situation; again, I love the fact that Fedor tapped him superbly - but I think it was a 50/50 effort here. 50% of it goes to Fedors masterful armbar, the other 50% goes to Coleman being clueless and underestimating Fedors ground work. That card has been played, it won't work the same way against Randleman.