GREATEST Movie Tournament...

[NYU 0]

Oh no, I do get the concept. I just think it's a very flawed one. We're nominating movies based on the preconceptions other people have had about them. Forget the fact that I found Citizen Kane to be an incredibly boring movie. Countless movie critics have enjoyed it. Does this now mean that I have to put in a vote for Citizen Kane in a tournament bracket? Despite the fact that I didn't like the movie, movie experts still think of this movie as one of the greatest movies ever created. Who's guidelines am I supposed to use here:

 

Mine (who would probably find Forrest Gump or Fight Club to be a greater overall movie than Citizen Kane)?

 

or

 

The conventional line of thinking (which means that my opinion isn't really warranted in the first place)?

 

I don't understand how we're supposed to be making the decisions in this tournament. The rules don't seem to make much sense.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

None one is forced to vote for something they don't like. I'm a little mad no one else thinks Rocky II is great, but I have to deal with it not being nominated.

 

Personally, I'm not a big fan of Citizen Kane, but it is a very good movie. It may not be my favorite, or close to it on my lsit, but it is great.

[WrestlingDeacon 0]

Fuck opinion. Any knowledgable film scholar can look at a movie objectionably and tell you whether it's "good" or not. Even if you don't like something, you can still recognize it's merits. Likewise, you can look at something you love and see it's many flaws. The concept as I understand it, is not to go for favorites, but those films that we can clearly see are "all time classics" based on their overall quality and influence on the media.

[NYU 0]

Now hold up.

 

If I'm voting for what is the conventional greatest movie, then there really is no reason for me to vote. The Godfather, Citizen Kane, Casablanca....these are all movies that have been rated the greatest by the average American. If I don't agree with this....then I would be voting for my favorite movie out of the two. Which has already been covered in that other poll.

 

You can't tell me that Citizen Kane is a great movie, if I don't necessarily agree that it is. Like I said before, it was just one of those movies that I think has been severely overrated throughout history. Now, if it is pitted against Fight Club......conventional wisdom says Citizen Kane is the better movie, which I disagree with. My personal opinion says Fight Club is the better movie, but conventional wisdom disagrees with that. Which idea am I supposed to be following?

 

Fuck opinion. Any knowledgable film scholar can look at a movie objectionably and tell you whether it's "good" or not. Even if you don't like something, you can still recognize it's merits. Likewise, you can look at something you love and see it's many flaws. The concept as I understand it, is not to go for favorites, but those films that we can clearly see are "all time classics" based on their overall quality and influence on the media.

 

Then what is the point of me voting if history has already decided which film has had a larger overall influence on the media? What you're suggesting is that this poll doesn't require you to have an opinion, which defeats the very idea of a poll in the first place.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Can someone explain to me what's so great about Fight Club?

[Nighthawk 0]

Here lies the problem. A movie can be flawless, and once it reaches that point, it can be no better. There are several flawless movies. Place one against another, you have no basis to judge one better. It's back to favorite again.

[WrestlingDeacon 0]

No, what I'm saying although it might not have been expressed clearly is that there is a difference between "favorite" and "good." What I read from your previous post is that you were equating the word "favorite" with "opinion" and I wanted you to get away from that thinking. Also, history is not the same as those qualifications for what makes a good movie. You also can't let yourself fall into the trap of what the conventional answer has been. In my personal "opinion" if you can't see why Citizen Kane is a good movie, then this might not be the poll for you. I can easily tell you why it's a great movie and it would be nigh impossible for you to disagree with those facts. You can point out flaws in the film, you can tell why you don't like the movie, or why you think there are elements of a movie like Fight Club that are so well done that it puts it above Kane for you, but you can't argue with fundamental elements of the film, such as the cinematography and acting, as not being technically 'good.' The main thing I'm saying here is that you can recognize that something is good without necessarily liking it. And saying you don't like something is not saying that it's not good.

 

What I hope this poll does more than anything is promote some intelligent discussion. If you need it simplified, I guess they way I see what Man of a 1004 Modes wants is favorite movies that also qualify as being great movies from a filmmaking standpoint.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Just to prove this isn't like the favorites one, some of my favorite movies are complete garbage, like Ace Ventura: Pet Detective, The Goonies, The Rocky series, Mrs. Doubtfire (High-larious) etc. etc.

 

Great movies I would've nominated if I wasn't hosting this would've been Rocky II, Lean On Me, Scarface (I'm a sucker for this one), and 12 Angry Men. Only 1 of these was nominated, but thankfully, no one nominated movies I would call favorites.

[tbondrage99 0]

Heres 10 from me:

The Shawshank Redemption

Monty Python & The Holy Grail

Rocky

Forrest Gump

E.T.

Clerks

Natural Born Killers

Akira

Terminator 2: Judgement Day

The Rocky Horror Picture Show

[chaosrage 0]

None one is forced to vote for something they don't like. I'm a little mad no one else thinks Rocky II is great, but I have to deal with it not being nominated.

I thought it was great, but I figured it would be a waste of time nominating it since it wouldn't get out the first round.

 

I haven't seen Citizen Kane, but movies are about more than just acting and directing, just like wrestling is about more than moves. A movie could have some of the most realistic acting and the best directing and cimematography ever seen but if it turns out to be boring, then it ISN'T good. Period. Also you can't really objectively cross genres at all. No one can say that their favorite drama is objectively better than your favorite comedy. Well they can but they'll look stupid doing it. There's not much difference between favorite and good because no movie is ever objectively good. It's all subjective.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

Requiem For A Dream

T2

The Bicycle Thief

Blue, Blanc et Rouge(the Kassovitz trilogy which I'm sure will get booted for being French)

American History X

SLC Punk

[godthedog 0]

Blue, Blanc et Rouge(the Kassovitz trilogy which I'm sure will get booted for being French)

good try, but that's kieslowski. kassovitz made 'la haine', 'the crimson rivers' & 'gothika', and played the boyfriend in 'amelie'.

 

and they closed nominations already anyway.

 

and on a personal note, the words "T2" and "greatest movie ever" should never be in the same sentence, except in a sentence pointing out that they should never be in the same sentence.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Don't forget to nominate Apocalypse Now.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Time Bandits is cooler than all of these, too.

[godthedog 0]

Don't forget to nominate Apocalypse Now.

*slaps forehead* Heavens yes. This should win, honestly.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I'm not flamebaiting you.

[Guest JumpinJackFlash]

Lawrence of Arabia

The Good the Bad and the Ugly

Pulp Fiction

Citizen Kane

Seven Samurai

[Guest JumpinJackFlash]

I have an interesting idea to make sure this is a tournament of the greatest. There was a poll by Sight and Sound magazine detailing the top 10 movies of all time. There was a director's list and a critic's list. Take all the movies on both top ten lists and make a tournament out of those. Only then will you define the greatest.

[Guest I Got Banned for Sucking]

TheBigSwigg, don't you mean The Bicycle Bandit? If so, my uncle was in a theatre production of that one.

 

1. The Shawshank Redemption

2. Citizen Kane

3. The Godfather: Part II

4. The Godfather

5. Forrest Gump

 

Slightly alters from my favourites - but this post is probably void now anyway.

[godthedog 0]

TheBigSwigg, don't you mean The Bicycle Bandit?

'ladri di biciclette'

 

I have an interesting idea to make sure this is a tournament of the greatest. There was a poll by Sight and Sound magazine detailing the top 10 movies of all time. There was a director's list and a critic's list. Take all the movies on both top ten lists and make a tournament out of those. Only then will you define the greatest.

critics' list:

 

1. citizen kane

2. vertigo

3. the rules of the game

4. godfathers I and II

5. tokyo story

6. 2001

7. battleship potemkin

8. sunrise

9. 8 1/2

10. singin' in the rain

 

directors' list:

 

1. citizen kane

2. godfathers I and II

3. 8 1/2

4. lawrence of arabia

5. dr strangelove

6. the bicycle thief

6. raging bull

6. vertigo

9. rashomon

9. the rules of the game

9. the seven samurai

 

making a tournament here out of these would be a disaster for so many reasons. maybe 3 or 4 people on the board have actually seen all these, and i'm sure the ones who HAVE don't agree with the choices (i know i don't).

[TheBigSwigg 0]

Blue, Blanc et Rouge(the Kassovitz trilogy which I'm sure will get booted for being French)

good try, but that's kieslowski. kassovitz made 'la haine', 'the crimson rivers' & 'gothika', and played the boyfriend in 'amelie'.

 

I could've swore it was Kassovitz. Hm.

 

and the T2 nomination is just because I love the movie. I don't think it would stand a chance against others.

[Nighthawk 0]

Hey, I've seen all the movies on those lists except one, I should go see it so I can be a super film knowledge ultra man. And you're right... I don't agree with it.