Bradshaw Causes Incident At House Show

[Downhome 0]

Well you sure proved your knowledge on the subject.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

What does that mean?

[OldSchoolWrestling 0]

Looking at this from Germany's POV, I can easily see why they'd want to ban goose-stepping and the heil Hitler gesture.

 

 

I don't get it. It's a hand in the air. That's it. Could be a wave or haling a Taxi. How do you ban people from putting their hand in the air?

 

And goose-stepping? What, do you measure the distance between the foot and the ground, and if the foot is high enough, and the knee isn't bent, you arrest the guy?

The laws are rediculous. Trust me when I say, I'm no Nazi, but if someone holds those beliefs, banning those moves isn't going to change the real problem. The real problem being that the guy is a moron.

 

I don't like to watch Bradshaw, because I think he's a crappy wrestler. I could care less what kind of useless laws he breaks in aforeign country.

Just a hand in the air? You and everyone know he was doing it as a Hitler salute. If I stick my middle finger in your face is it just a finger or does it mean something? Hitler was a monster and they have a law barring what he did there. Yes he was doing it to get heat, but that would be like burning a cross here.

[Guest Goodear]

Hitler was a monster and they have a law barring what he did there.

 

What Hitler did there was gas Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals and pretty much anyone else he could find not to mention slaughter tons of people in the war itself. In the broad scope, I don't think the wave and goose stepping should be what law makers should be worried about. Quite the opposite, the symbols are just that... symbols and it is far more important for a group to understand the philosophy behind those symbols and deal with the actual meanings rather than to outright ban the incidental symbols from ever appearing again.

 

Yes he was doing it to get heat, but that would be like burning a cross here.

 

Uhmmm... Undertaker and Mordecai ring a bell?

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Silly Goodear.

 

It's not a cross, it's a "symbol".

[OldSchoolWrestling 0]

I'm sure the lawmakers aren't just worried about the symbols. I'm sure they deal with any Nazi activities and not just salutes and symbols. But kudos to them for taking it as far as barring the symbol and the salute. I think the U.S.A. should take a similar stand.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

If I stick my middle finger in your face is it just a finger or does it mean something?

 

In an adult world, it's just a finger. I've got two of my own. I don't reall understand what distinguishes the middle one, but if you try to offend me with it, OK, whatever.

Now if you were to physically attack me, then we'd be have a real problem. And by the way, I don't think you'll get arrested any time soon for sticking up any of your fingers, middle or otherwise.

 

Burning a cross is a different issue, because if you do it in someone's front yard, then it can be tresppassing or destroying property. However, I live in the South, and it was ruled a constitutional right that the KKK morons be able to burn a cross on their own property.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

But kudos to them for taking it as far as barring the symbol and the salute. I think the U.S.A. should take a similar stand.

You can't be serious about that. So they should ban what, speaking out against the government?

[Guest nikowwf]

You certainly can get arrested for words or gestures if the purpose is to offend or threaten another person.

 

And im just not feeling the WHY DOES GERMANY BAN NAZI SYMBOLISM etc argument. They do it cause they don't want the skinhead type groups to be able to do that stuff in public, in what was as horrible and ugly a situation as there as ever been in the world. Why is banning these gestures so troublesome? It has nothing to do with not touching on the deeper issues.

 

niko

[OldSchoolWrestling 0]

I was referring to Nazi support.

[Guest Trivia247]

You certainly can get arrested for words or gestures if the purpose is to offend or threaten another person. 

 

And im just not feeling the WHY DOES GERMANY BAN NAZI SYMBOLISM etc argument.  They do it cause they don't want the skinhead type groups to be able to do that stuff in public, in what was as horrible and ugly a situation as there as ever been in the world.  Why is banning these gestures so troublesome?  It has nothing to do with not touching on the deeper issues.

 

niko

suppose its a shameful reminder of what a strong party that held the country sway did to certain groups within their borders and then Outside their borders.

 

We also should keep in mind that our countries Law's and freedoms are still both Peculliar and Unique to us. Freedom of speech gives doofus Moronic Skinhead neo nazi's and KKK dipshits the right to go marching around if they feel the need.

 

Just sometimes I wish they take a wrong turn in my local DC area and march onto Martin Luther King Jr Blvd and see what happens there.......

 

would be a rout.

[haVoc 0]

 

JBL Internet Fans

[jester 0]

The Nazis orchestrated the slaughter of six million Jews. There is a great deal of collective shame in the national German consciousness about it. Yes, I have talked to Germans about it. Ones that were born well after WWII. You can see a deep pain in their faces when the subject comes up.

 

The reason why Germans don't "get over it already" is because they will not let themselves. They hammer it home to show that they are deeply sorry about this and are resolved to squash any sign of Nazism the second it shows itself, even its something like spray painting a swastika on a wall or jokingly waving Hitler in someone's face. Considering the incredible amount of damage the Nazis did, and a relatively short time ago, I don't think this is unreasonable.

 

So to have this idiot, Bradshaw, Mr. So-Called Expert on Global Affairs (just read his columns on international relations, you'll see), to come into Germany and use Nazi imagery to get a WRESTLING ANGLE over, is insanely offensive.

 

Free speech does not mean unlimited speech. Bradshaw could argue freedom of expression and "it was just a joke," but that doesn't mean the Germans have to listen. He did what he did, the Germans have a right to tell him he's not welcome and to never come back.

 

For every country WWE visits, they should make an effort to see what the local taboos are, and make sure their employees know not to cross lines. What can be joked about, and what will cause a riot. This is just common sense. And it's not like Nazi Germany was a particularly difficult one to spot.

 

I have no sympathy for Bradshaw whatsoever.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Why is banning these gestures so troublesome?

 

Personally, I live in America, so it really doesn't bother me. However, the point is: If someone hates Jews, banning him from raising his hand in the air does not stop him from hating Jews. Creating useless laws that are basically unenforceable only goes to weaken the laws already in place.

 

The midlle finger is a good one. Let's say I find it offensive and threatening, so we ban it.

Now first thing on the agenda is to arrest all the middle school girls in America cause they are all using the finger.

Surely you get my point.

[Guest Goodear]

And im just not feeling the WHY DOES GERMANY BAN NAZI SYMBOLISM etc argument. They do it cause they don't want the skinhead type groups to be able to do that stuff in public, in what was as horrible and ugly a situation as there as ever been in the world.

 

They should really worry about Skinhead types from attacking people or creating genuine problems. Just having some bald cracker stand on a corner saluting perhaps the most evil man in modern history doesn't do anything but make the vast majority of the people call him an ass. Thats why when the KKK gathers for a march, its like 4 members and 2500 people booing the crap out of them.

 

 

Why is banning these gestures so troublesome? It has nothing to do with not touching on the deeper issues.

 

In fact, it does. It proposes a total erasure of the past in order to white wash history rather than deal with it. For instance, let us say that because of slavery that the Confederate flag is illegal to possess or show in any way. How does discussion of that symbol and what it symbolizes ever continue (much less any meaningful or accurate discussion of the Civil War)? The visual aid of the symbol allows people to form concrete representations for abstract concepts and allows us to disuss those concepts more effectively. Forgetting that Nazism ever existed won't help us deal with the attitudes that allowed its creation in the first place.

[Guest Trivia247]

Why is banning these gestures so troublesome?

 

Personally, I live in America, so it really doesn't bother me. However, the point is: If someone hates Jews, banning him from raising his hand in the air does not stop him from hating Jews. Creating useless laws that are basically unenforceable only goes to weaken the laws already in place.

 

The midlle finger is a good one. Let's say I find it offensive and threatening, so we ban it.

Now first thing on the agenda is to arrest all the middle school girls in America cause they are all using the finger.

Surely you get my point.

As I said not everyone has the Freedom of speech which goes one way and then the other.

 

Someone hating jews has a right to spout his bullshit, as well as a jewish person has the right of tell him how much full of shit he is.

 

ah Geo political stryfe.... Thank you Bradshaw for giving us a lesson in this.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The WWE does make an effort to learn the local taboos - and then tries to play them up. Which is why you get Trish making a "frog" reference when in Montreal.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Someone hating jews has a right to spout his bullshit, as well as a jewish person has the right of tell him how much full of shit he is.

 

Trivia,

I'm not sure if you were trying to agree with me or not, but this somes up my point as well as anything I could say.

[nl5xsk1 0]

The laws serve their purpose ... it prevents public, pro-Nationalist demonstrations and the like, and gives the police an excuse to round up extremists. Arrest them enough times for small things, and then when they commit a big crime you have them as repeat offenders and you can throw them in jail for longer (comparable to the 3 strikes laws in the US)

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

nl5xsk1,

Seriously though, where do you draw the line? If they see a guy with stiff legs high stepping down the street, do they arrest him? If they don't, couldn't the extremists have a case that they are being persecuted against?

[Guest heyimbro]

From http://www.impactwrestling.com/content.aspx?snum=2053:

 

Word from the International Licensing Convention in NYC today is that John Bradshaw Layfield showed up late, didn't look overly excited to be there, and had a relatively short line for autographs compared to others.

 

Since when did Bradshaw have MORE autographs than anybody else?

[Guest wrestlingbs]

Let's see. Germany spent the better part of the 30's and early 40's wiping out half of Europe. After it was all over, don't you think the new rulers would try to get rid of any sign of the Nazi Party, lest the rest of the world wipe the floor with them?

 

And Vince's ignorance to Bradshaw's actions is testament to how bad of a businessman he is. That and the XFL.

[Guest netslob]

Excellent article from 411...good read.

[Guest heyimbro]

Source: 1Wrestling.com

 

-- One of John Bradshaw Layfield's co-workers reacted to Layfield's behavior on the recent tour of Germany by saying, "I'm embarassed to be a part of this company".

 

"I'm sure he thought it was no big deal," said another co-worker. "Well it was a big deal, and the timing couldn't have been worse. The entire world was paying tribute to the men who died at D-Day, and we've got a clown in the ring making a fool of himself and the company."

 

--The only WWE reaction was a brief apology that appeared on WWE.com for a short time earlier today before it was pulled. More information on this whole saga can be found on the newsboard.

 

Uh oh, looks like he's making more enemies in the dressing room.

[CanadianChris 0]

Excellent article from 411...good read.

That is one of the greatest things I've ever read.

[teke184 0]

Wow... Grut actually does something RIGHT for once.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

All Grut did was admit that the IWC is a biased faction of over reacting nerds. Wow.

[CanadianChris 0]

All Grut did was admit that the IWC is a biased faction of over reacting nerds. Wow.

Biased against rude, boorish, bullying, ignorant, useless twats?

 

Guilty.

[Australian Pride 0]

A little bit off topic - but will the average wrestling fan even care that JBL did a nazi symbol? I mean, the likes of Fritz Von Erich were openly promoted as nazi's. It was a different era sure, but he ended being one of the most beloved wrestlers in Texas. Same goes for Sgt Slaughter - he stood up for Saddam Hussein at the peak of the first Gulf War, and a few years later all was forgiven as he waved the American Flag again.

I know JBL is a dick for blatantly breaking German laws (well actually, JBL is just a dick in general), but i dont think regular mat fans will even care.

[AmericanDragon 0]

That article reminded me of Christopher Walken's last words to Martin Sheen in The Dead Zone.