Kane vs Benoit

[theintensifier 0]

I know theres no way Angle/Benoit could be compared to Misawa/Kobashi. But what I was trying to get at was: Angle and Benoit were the top workers in the WWE, and should be having ***** matches, just like Misawa/Kobashi did in AJPW.

 

2pacallyps, read my post over again, I didn't say Kawada/Misawa, I said Misawa/Kobashi (the best AJPW feud and matches ever, IMO). Also, you post way too often, and it confuses not only you, but others.

 

I don't want to nitpick, because I don't like to, it's uncalled for, those guys busted their asses, and don't deserve to be nitpicked by someone who couldn't do half of what they do.

 

MrZsasz, I didn't mean to come off as a prick, was not my intention. I was just giving info, some I thought he might not know.

 

I've seen 6/3/94 Misawa/Kawada, I have a 1st gen tape to be exact. It is a classic (lol) match, but it's not the greatest match of all time IMO. I think Flair/Steamboat - Misawa/Kobashi have that match topped.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Here it is:

 

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/columns/...columns_id=1942

Wow. That article is total madness. Please don't believe a word of this arctile. El Dandy is rather clueless in such matters.

 

How come it’s so over with these fans to see people take it to the mat and hit big moves in the end like a certain other Japanese promotion that took the world by storm in the 1990s? If you like segues...you’ll find it...

 

Uh....you won't find alot of mat work in 90s All Japan. Hitting big moves at the end isn't really a trademark of All Japan either, it's rather a fundmental that can be found in all forms of wrestling. You want a real U.S. comparision to 90s All Japan, go watch Sting/Vader from WCW. Them two had way more in common with Baba's boys than Lesnar and Angle. For more literal similarities, Sting even used alot of Kawada's kicks.

 

I keep watching these two wrestling and I want to pin the "Next Misawa/Kawada feud" moniker on them. Maybe it’s because they were tag partners that had split? Maybe it was because Angle is Vince McMahon’s boy and that Benoit is constantly in his shadow, just like Misawa was with Baba with Kawada? Maybe it’s because when they wrestle, there is magic in the air?

 

That's pretty fucking thin right there. Because we all know that every time tag partners split and fight, it has shades of Misawa/Kawada.

 

Misawa trying to get out of Baba's shadow? WTF? I think that problem was solved when Misawa beat Baba with a variation of his own move in 94.

 

In all reality, these two have a rivalry that is now two years old, and Angle has dominated, just like Misawa. It’s weird to see this kinda domination. However, Benoit has not been totally shut out. He does score pinfall victories over Angle, and even though he’s been held down NUMEROUS times, he’s always there, and always willing to get another shot

 

As if there haven't been lots of one sided fueds over the years, didn't Steamboat dominate Flair for years as well. Besides, Misawa was presented in such a way that he was totally superior to Kawada in every shape and form.

 

He never won with a roll up, tights, cheating, he just flat out handed Kawada his ass for years. It took Kawada 3 fucking years to pin the guy in a tag match but even than that was only after his partner Chokeslammed him off the damn ring apron first. Beniot/Angle isn't even close to that kind of one sided domination.

 

 

The match is a beautiful mutation of an All Japan-style match. Of course, you aren’t gonna see a whole lot of head drops at the end of the match, but you WILL see the basic All Japan structure tweaked just a little bit.

 

There are some similarities but to call it a variation of King's Road style is more than a bit of a stretch. Beniot does bring what appears to be a King's Road influence to the match with the way he builds to the Scorpion Deathlock and Headbutt. There's also a struggle to lock on the submission holds as I recall.

 

They do throw away lot of meaningless Suplexes like Kobashi and Misawa would start doing later in the 90s.

 

As far as Beniot/Angle having a match on the level of the "Great" Misawa/Kobashi matches, impossible. In 97, Misawa/Kobashi adavanced King's Road so far that only two guys had the athletic ability, the timing, and the movesets to work those matches....Misawa and Kobashi. Not even Kawada(arguably the greatest worker of all time) couldt keep up with them at that point.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

I know theres no way Angle/Benoit could be compared to Misawa/Kobashi. But what I was trying to get at was: Angle and Benoit were the top workers in the WWE, and should be having ***** matches, just like Misawa/Kobashi did in AJPW.

 

In his prime long before he came to the WWF/E, Beniot couldn't even reach the levels of Misawa, Kobashi, and Kawada. So there really isn't a reason for him to do so now, especially since he's physically detoriated, working with someone who is far from an all time great, and in a enviroment such as the modern WWE. I just don't see "Greatest match of all time" potential there.

 

Oddly enough, Taue of all people was under similar circumstances and actually had an excellent match with Nagata that year and it totally blows away Beniot/Angle.

[Guest I Got Banned for Sucking]

Evil Blood, I think you're overrating it just a tad.

 

I mean, it was a good match, I'll give it that, but I expected more. More of a David/Goliath mentality, and better wrestling than what we got, and that can be blamed squarely on Kane.

 

Deon, it'd all make sense if there was to be a rematch.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I know theres no way Angle/Benoit could be compared to Misawa/Kobashi. But what I was trying to get at was: Angle and Benoit were the top workers in the WWE, and should be having ***** matches, just like Misawa/Kobashi did in AJPW.

 

In his prime long before he came to the WWF/E, Beniot couldn't even reach the levels of Misawa, Kobashi, and Kawada.

Benoit never worked the All Japan style or had that amount of time to work with what the All Japan guys did on avearage so it's not a completely fair comparison. There are guys such as the Big Boss Man and Wolf Hawkfield who can go to All Japan and all of a sudden be better wresters than they were before. Is it because they're really better? No, it's because they got the advantage of the All Japan style.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Evil Blood, I think you're overrating it just a tad.

 

I mean, it was a good match, I'll give it that, but I expected more. More of a David/Goliath mentality, and better wrestling than what we got, and that can be blamed squarely on Kane.

 

Deon, it'd all make sense if there was to be a rematch.

EvilBlood is just fooling around having a good time if you ask me. Of the posts I've read of his I've enjoyed.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Benoit never worked the All Japan style or had that amount of time to work with what the All Japan guys did on avearage so it's not a completely fair comparison.

 

No this is not a discussion of styles but quality of matches.

 

Lyger and Ohtani never worked in All Japan and yet they have matches that I would put on the level of some of the great Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi matches. Hell, in 96 Ohtani had a better year than any of the big three as far as singles matches are concerned.

 

There are guys such as the Big Boss Man and Wolf Hawkfield who can go to All Japan and all of a sudden be better wresters than they were before

 

Bossman was a decent worker though and I'd say that sharing the ring with guys like Kawada, Kobashi, Misawa, Hansen and Dr. Death helped him more than the actual style. Workers make the style, not the other way around.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Benoit never worked the All Japan style or had that amount of time to work with what the All Japan guys did on avearage so it's not a completely fair comparison.

 

No this is not a discussion of styles but quality of matches.

 

Lyger and Ohtani never worked in All Japan and yet they have matches that I would put on the level of some of the great Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi matches. Hell, in 96 Ohtani had a better year than any of the big three as far as singles matches are concerned.

 

There are guys such as the Big Boss Man and Wolf Hawkfield who can go to All Japan and all of a sudden be better wresters than they were before

 

Bossman was a decent worker though and I'd say that sharing the ring with guys like Kawada, Kobashi, Misawa, Hansen and Dr. Death helped him more than the actual style. Workers make the style, not the other way around.

I assume you mean Liger vs Ohtani 3/96 and Liger vs Ohtani from early 97. I have Benoit vs Sasuke, Ohtani from 3/96, Eddie from 6/96 and Samurai from 7/95 around the same level. I'll have to go and back and check Benoit and Eddie 2 BOSJ 95 matches. Benoit also had 2 great preformances against Kanemoto.

 

 

Yes, good to see some Bossman love. The style and the workers combine to help each other out.

 

 

To keep this thread on track somewhat, does anybody think there's going to be a Benoit Kane rematch or can Kane not be beaten now because he has to be saved for Michaels?

[Coffin Surfer 0]

I assume you mean Liger vs Ohtani 3/96 and Liger vs Ohtani from early 97. I have Benoit vs Sasuke, Ohtani from 3/96, Eddie from 6/96 and Samurai from 7/95 around the same level. I'll have to go and back and check Benoit and Eddie 2 BOSJ 95 matches. Benoit also had 2 great preformances against Kanemoto.

 

 

Yes, good to see some Bossman love. The style and the workers combine to help each other out.

 

 

To keep this thread on track somewhat, does anybody think there's going to be a Benoit Kane rematch or can Kane not be beaten now because he has to be saved for Michaels?

Actually:

 

Lyger's performance against Samurai at 4/30/92 is better than anything I've ever seen Beniot do.

 

From 96, Ohtani/Samurai is also better than any Beniot match and is probably the best pro style men's singles match from that year.

 

Never liked Lyger/Ohtani from 97 that much.

 

Yeah, I hate to take this topic as well but it appeared to be going there before I came around anyway.

[iggymcfly 0]

Yeah, but there's a cut-off.  Like you, or -ib-, or Rico.  You guys at least have some sort of structure to your posts.  This guy has the longest sentences on the board.  He uses more "ands" in one line than a fucking novel.  His posts are that of a 6 year old...

 

"I went to the ice cream shop and I ate some ice cream and it was really good and I asked my mom if I could have some more and she said no and I cried and she said ok and I had some more and my tummy hurt and I threw up and then I played with my transformers and it was fun."

OMG! That was the funniest thing I've read in months. It was funny and it was sad and it was true.

 

Anyway, as for the actual content of the thread, I didn't see the Benoit/Kane match, and I've never seen any Japanese wrestling. However, I did see Benoit/Angle from RR 2003, and I have to agree that it's vastly overrated. I'm an Angle mark and I tend to overrate his work if anything, but I couldn't justify giving that match higher than **** and even that might have been pushing it a little. What annoyed me wasn't just the suplexes. It was the constant reversals on a dime, as if putting someone in a submission hold did absolutely nothing to put them at a disadvantage, and all they had to do was roll around and pretty soon you'd be in a submission hold instead. It wasn't good psychology or wrestling.

 

Now, if you're including such factors as buildup and quality of the feud, the last WWE match I'd consider a classic was HBK/HHH from SS 2002. I know I'm not in that much greater company that Evil Blood on the point, but I really think that match had a special "real" aura to it that I haven't seen since in the WWE. I know that it's hard to admit those two guys would do it, especially following what from all accounts was a very disappointing HIAC match, but that first street fight was a classic in every sense of the word.

[Guest 2pacallyps]

Sorry about the amount of posts. There is some psychology your're right with the built of the diving headbutt and there're a lot of nice variations on spot's like the Angle Slam of the crossface. The problem is that they never try to tell a deep story. The suplexes are used to try to get the pin but they don't sell the back enough. It feels like a suplex spot fest. I don't like the head dropping AJ wrestling main event's became in the late 90's either. If I want's to watch a lot os spot's with no selling there're many indy matches I can watch. The problem is they don't set up their submissions it more or less comes out of the blue. I enjoyed their previous match at Unforgiving more because Benoit works on the shoulder area with a shoulder breaker and the diving headbutt late in the match. They do spot's to play of other matches and the reversal sequence late in the match shows how well they know each other by that time. Still for some of the positive aspects ther're many more negative ones and that brings the match down to being just good. Wildpegasus is the body of the match(most of their moves before the finish) focus on the back? Do they both long term sell the back? Does all that work on the back factor's in at the end? There you go

[Guest wildpegasus]

Anyway, as for the actual content of the thread, I didn't see the Benoit/Kane match, and I've never seen any Japanese wrestling. However, I did see Benoit/Angle from RR 2003, and I have to agree that it's vastly overrated. I'm an Angle mark and I tend to overrate his work if anything, but I couldn't justify giving that match higher than **** and even that might have been pushing it a little. What annoyed me wasn't just the suplexes. It was the constant reversals on a dime, as if putting someone in a submission hold did absolutely nothing to put them at a disadvantage, and all they had to do was roll around and pretty soon you'd be in a submission hold instead. It wasn't good psychology or wrestling.

 

Now, if you're including such factors as buildup and quality of the feud, the last WWE match I'd consider a classic was HBK/HHH from SS 2002. I know I'm not in that much greater company that Evil Blood on the point, but I really think that match had a special "real" aura to it that I haven't seen since in the WWE. I know that it's hard to admit those two guys would do it, especially following what from all accounts was a very disappointing HIAC match, but that first street fight was a classic in every sense of the word.

Well, I give it 4 1/4 * so we're not too far off. See the phychology of it was what I said before. Desperation and one upmanship. If you don't personally like that it's fine but to deny their is phychology and the fact they use the physchology aspect they're working on here in a strong way is wrong. Benoit and Angle can trade reversals like that because they are the two top technical wrestlers in the WWE.

[Guest 2pacallyps]

Wildpegasus please reply to my questions about the backwork. Just prove me wrong if you want to on my assestment of the flaws in the match.

[Guest Wondermouse]

I'm just wondering...

 

Why would Benoit need to work on the arm for the crossface? It targets the head and neck.

 

Why would Angle need to work on the leg for the Ankle Lock? It targets a very small part of the leg (the Ankle, obviously) that is pretty hard to work over.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Sorry about the amount of posts. There is some psychology your're right with the built of the diving headbutt and there're a lot of nice variations on spot's like the Angle Slam of the crossface. The problem is that they never try to tell a deep story. The suplexes are used to try to get the pin but they don't  sell the back enough. It feels like a suplex spot fest. I don't like the head dropping AJ wrestling main event's became in the late 90's either. If I want's to watch a lot os spot's with no selling there're many indy matches I can watch. The problem is they don't set up their submissions it more or less comes out of the blue. I enjoyed their previous match at Unforgiving more because Benoit works on the shoulder area with a shoulder breaker and the diving headbutt late in the match. They do spot's to play of other matches and the reversal sequence late in the match shows how well they know each other by that time. Still for some of the positive aspects ther're many more negative ones and that brings the match down to being just good. Wildpegasus is the body of the match(most of their moves before the finish) focus on the back? Do they both long term sell the back? Does all that work on the back factor's in at the end? There you go

but they don't sell the back enough. It feels like a suplex spot fest

 

What part of the back do you want them to sell? The upper back around the trap area? Has anyone ever done that in the history of wrestling efficiently during a match? Remember that they go back into submission holds during the bout so really their back can get a little "rest" there. It's not a suplex spot fest if you look at it from the perspective of oneupmanship.

 

I'm not going to touch the All Japan comment because I'm staying on track now and it's kind of a broad scope of things.

 

 

If I want's to watch a lot os spot's with no selling there're many indy matches I can watch

 

Yes, there is some no selling which I've talked about before but there is selling here too. Is there bodypart selling? No? Well except for Benoit's ankle which he does a great job with. Still they got the idea of desperation out there. Angle's facials after one of the anklelocks he does here was very good. Than we get into Benoit's normal selling off of normal moves which is as always excellent.

 

 

 

Wildpegasus is the body of the match(most of their moves before the finish) focus on the back? Do they both long term sell the back? Does all that work on the back factor's in at the end? There you go

 

See, this is what I don't get. Why do the moves have to focus on the back before the finish? This frustrates me because too many people and I'm not saying this is you seem to be getting the idea that"good" physcology is only working one and only one bodypart over and over until your opponent has to sell it as lethal damage and nothing else. Than the finish has to come off of a worked bodypart and if the opponent does any offence that uses the worked bodypart the match sucks. This is not the only way to have "good" phycology in a match. If every match went like this wrestling would be too predictable.

 

But anyway I don't understand why you're so worried about the back. At the end of the match they're doing submission stuff and there IS continual damage done to a bodypart so you should be happy here. Benoit's ankle which is constantly getting ankle locked over and over again until Benoit has to submit when Angle brings out the big submission.

 

 

Does all that work on the back factor's in at the end? There you go

 

It doesn't have to.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I'm just wondering...

 

Why would Benoit need to work on the arm for the crossface? It targets the head and neck.

 

Why would Angle need to work on the leg for the Ankle Lock? It targets a very small part of the leg (the Ankle, obviously) that is pretty hard to work over.

You wouldn't have to automatically work on the arm even if the crossface did work on the arm.**

 

** The crossface does actually work on the arm (as well as the neck, nose (which is dangerous -don't try at home), could be used as a choke ala Jericho, sleeper ala Raven,) as it injures something in the shoulder but I believe it depends on how Benoit uses it. Say on FLair in the Raw tag he had it in differently than he did against other opponents rescently. I think the version he had on Flair is the one that injures the arm. When he has the arm not as tightly procured at least sometimes I don't believe he's supposed to be inflicting damage with it on the arm. I once read a great article on the crossface and how it worked. there's more than 1 way to put it on.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Wildpegasus please reply to my questions about the backwork. Just prove me wrong if you want to on my assestment of the flaws in the match.

I just saw this inbetween posts. I should watch this match tonight if I have time. I believe you're looking at the match the wrong way to truly get the most enjoyment out of it.

[Guest 2pacallyps]

Wildpegasus the problem is that Benoit sells the leg only after the match is over. When they're reversing the ankle lock no body sells. Does Angle sell his shoulder after being put in the cross face bout 5 times? No. I rather watch Dory Funk Jr. and Jack Brisco matches because they know how to sell and understand the psychology of working a body part than an Angle match. Angle never learned to work on the leg before the ankle lock. All Angle does is a bunch of suplexes than hooks the ankle lock without any prior work done to the leg. If you feel like they don't have to sell the part's of the body that're being worked on that's fine but I do. All Benoit had to do was apply the sharpsooter at the end of the match before going into their finishing sequence and that would have made the match much better. The fans would buy it as the finish even if Angle got out. This would show continuety of the back work that Benoit focused on with all the suplexes. The match is still good but their lack of focus on doing all the suplexes for nothing drags the match down. Bret Hart who I thinks is not that great knew how to work a leg to get his finisher over, Angle on the other hand never learned to do that. The problem is in the end all those suplexes never mattered. About the cross face it also target's the shoulder. In their Unforgiving match Benoit works on the shoulder(I shouldn't have said the arm sorry about that.) here he doesn't.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Wildpegasus the problem is that Benoit sells the leg only after the match is over. When they're reversing the ankle lock no body sells. Does Angle sell his shoulder after being put in the cross face bout 5 times? No. I rather watch Dory Funk Jr. and Jack Brisco matches because they know how to sell and understand the psychology of working a body part than an Angle match. Angle never learned to work on the leg before the ankle lock. All Angle does is a bunch of suplexes than hooks the ankle lock without any prior work done to the leg. If you feel like they don't have to sell the part's of the body that're being worked on that's fine but I do. All Benoit had to do was apply the sharpsooter at the end of the match before going into their finishing sequence and that would have made the match much better. The fans would buy it as the finish even if Angle got out. This would show continuety of the back work that Benoit focused on with all the suplexes. The match is still good but their lack of focus on doing all the suplexes for nothing drags the match down. Bret Hart who I thinks is not that great knew how to work a leg to get his finisher over, Angle on the other hand never learned to do that. The problem is in the end all those suplexes never mattered. About the cross face it also target's the shoulder. In their Unforgiving match Benoit works on the shoulder(I shouldn't have said the arm sorry about that.) here he doesn't.

Wildpegasus the problem is that Benoit sells the leg only after the match is over. When they're reversing the ankle lock no body sells

 

But Benoit does absolutely no running on his ankle during the match after the anklelocks and is not put in a posistion to really sell the anklelock the way you'd want.Especially at the end of the match where he's constantly on Benoit's ankle like a sharks senses blood. He does nothing that really requires a bending of the foot. Also remember that Angle has his arms around Benoit's ankle while the anklelock is being reversed.

 

 

Does Angle sell his  shoulder after being put in the cross face bout 5 times?

 

Angle doesn't sell the shoulder and that can be seen as a problem. It's one of the faults of the match. I'll have to back and see how the crossface was applied and see how much it was hitting the shoulder.

 

I rather watch Dory Funk Jr. and Jack Brisco matches because they know how to sell and understand the psychology of working a body part than an Angle match.

 

As much as I like Jack Brisco I have seen him do the exact same thing you're complaining about here in a match against Tsuruta. Controversial selling of a bodypart.

 

Angle never learned to work on the leg before the ankle lock

 

Angle doesn't have to work on the leg before an anklelock. It'd be cool if he did but what he's trying to do is wear down Benoit or whatever other opponent physically so he can have a better chance of procuring the anklelock on. His breakdown legwork is usually in the form of the anklelock itself.

 

All Benoit had to do was apply the sharpsooter at the end of the match before going into their finishing sequence and that would have made the match much better. The fans would buy it as the finish even if Angle got out. This would show continuety of the back work that Benoit focused on with all the suplexes. The match is still good but their lack of focus on doing all the suplexes for nothing drags the match down.

 

But why would Benoit put the sharpshooter on at the end? In the beginning parts of the match it's clear that Angle's leg is not a weak point as we can see with our very own eyes. The only other reason Benoit would hit the sharpshooter which isn't quite as powerful as the crossface is to work on Angle's lower back for a submission. But see Benoit's offence was all centered around the upper back trap/neck area so putting on a sharpshooter doesn't make sense from a wear down a body part perspective. If Benoit had a nice opportunity to put it on or if it was used as some kind of transistion to get Angle on offence I could live with it but I'd rather have Benoit going for upperbody submissions.

 

 

See, like I said befoe the suplexes do have purpose to them.

 

Now at the end the suplexes do matter because a) Benoit was trying to win with his suplexes that target the upper back/neck which the crossface also targets. So his suplexes do matter there. Angle's suplexes matter because they physically wear down Benoit and let the crowd feel more sympthany for Benoit at the end because he was in such a battle. Also, Angle's suplexes do set up his Angleslams a more believable nearfull and make Benoit more worn out physically so there's a better chance Angle can snatch his anklelock on. The suplexes also matter because they do help build the match into a climax.

 

 

 

One other cool tidbit I just remembered about this match is Angle learning mid way through. During the match Benoit does his flip his body around technique and use his other leg to drive Angle down to the mat with the crossface. Later on in the match he goes for his good old faithful reversal but Angle has learnt this counter so he hangs on for dear life and maintains his grip on the anklelock creating a very tense moment. Nice phycology there.

[Guest 2pacallyps]

The thing is wildpegasus when Angle sold the back a couple of times after suplexes he grabbed the lower back which is the way he sold the sharpshooter in the beginning. In that sense the sharphooter would work because Angle never sold the upper back but did grab his lower back. You see what I'm saying? I would have liked upper back submissions from both of them (Benoit could do the liontamer which he did in Japan). In the match with Michaels Shawn worked on the back of Benoit pulling out his old suplex finisher then using the bostoncrab variation to try to get a submission (using one of Benoit's moves to beat him). Again the problem with the suplexes and the cross face is that Angle doesn't sell the area that the crossface is focused on after the suplexes. If he did then the match would have been much better. Also ***1/4 is not a bad match. I have less than 10 WWE matches that hit the ****+. It's still a good match but I can't consider it a classic.

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

Misawa/Kawada pisses all over Flair/Steamboat.

[Guest 2pacallyps]

Monday Night Jericho is correct althought I consider the Clash 2 out of three falls match one of the top three north American matches their WrestleWar match is very overrated.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Angle doesn't have to work on the leg before an anklelock. It'd be cool if he did but what he's trying to do is wear down Benoit or whatever other opponent physically so he can have a better chance of procuring the anklelock on. His breakdown legwork is usually in the form of the anklelock itself.

 

To add to that, in WWF reality the anklelock has been established as such a devestating hold that there doesn't have to be much buildup.

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

Don't get me wrong - Flair/Steamer from Chi-Town and Clash are both great matches, but 6/3/94 is just so much more advanced that it isn't funny. The 10/92, 3/93, 7/93 and 7/95 matches are all just as good or better also.

[Guest 2pacallyps]

I'm not the only one that thinks that the match is just good. Here is Cris Coey's opinion. http://www.airraidcrash.com/review/crunch054.html It's an in depth review and he gives the match ***. I read other reviews that give the match an even lower rating. I really do like Angle and especially Benoit it's just their matches never impressed me.

[Dark Age 0]

Yeah, because of Coey doesn't think a match is good, then it can't be.

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

To add to that, in WWF reality the anklelock has been established as such a devestating hold that there doesn't have to be much buildup.

 

Ur not really. When you have wrestler A being put in the hold for 20-30 seconds at a time it kind of defeats it being as "such a devastating hold". Also when everyone and their dog escapes the anklelock without too much effort and that it so rarely earns a tap out hardly puts it over as dangerous.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Why would Angle need to work on the leg for the Ankle Lock? It targets a very small part of the leg (the Ankle, obviously) that is pretty hard to work over.

There's *plenty* of stuff that can be used to work the ankle.

 

1) Stomp on ankle

2) Pull opponent towards ring apron, then slam leg/ankle down on the apron

3) Pull opponent towards corner, slam leg/ankle against ring post

4) Take opponent to the outside, slam leg/ankle against ring steps

5) The "shinbreaker atomic drop" can be sold as an ankle move

6) Place opponent's leg on bottom rope, then jump on leg

7) Jumping knee drop to the ankle