DangerousDamon Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 The Kane vs Benoit topic in the WWE folder inspired me to make this thread. All the talk in there about comparing random puro matches to random WWE matches had me wondering if there has EVER been a five star match.
Guest whitemilesdavis Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 I can think of a few that are all on the Flair disc. Of course, everyone's ratings are different, but I know that generally, people agree that some of those matches were *****.
TheFranchise Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Benoit/Angle from 01/03 is the only match that comes to mind that has it all.
Coffin Surfer Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Wow, this hasn't been done before(sarcasm). Hansen vs Kobashi, 7/29/93 Misawa vs. Kawada 6/3/94 Kawada/Taue vs. Misawa/Kobashi 12/3/93 Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi 6/9/95 Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Akiyama 12/6/96 Hokuto vs. Kandori Dreamslam Toyota/Yamada vs. Kansai/Ozaki Dreamrush There's a few acclaimed lucha matches I need to see so the list could change in the future.
theintensifier Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Are you talking just WWE? If so there are a couple IMO. Austin/Hart I Quit WM 13 Michaels/Ramon Ladder WM 10 - SS 95 HHH/Foley Street Fight RR 00 HHH/Foley HIAC TLC 1 & 2 Hart/Hart SS 94 Austin/HHH Three Stages of Hell Michaels/Taker HIAC Benoit/Michaels/HHH WM XX - BL 04 Taker/Mankind HIAC Hardys vs. E&C Ladder Austin/Rock WM X7 That's all that I can think of. But if it's every promotion, then there is a ton. *EDIT* Changed date (thanks Fook), and added a few more matches.
Guest cobainwasmurdered Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 TLC 1 & 2 Benoit/Michaels/HHH WM XX - BL 04 Taker/Mankind HIAC BWAHAHAHAHA. TLC matches are spot fests with little to no psychology...something you need to have a ***** match. Taker/Foley HIAC isn't even **. It's a bunch of standing around and two or three killer spots. It's the most overrated match in the history of the WWE. The three was was close to 5 stars but was more like ****1/2 just for some spotty selling.
Guest Dynamite Kido Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Wow, this hasn't been done before(sarcasm). Hansen vs Kobashi, 7/29/93 Misawa vs. Kawada 6/3/94 Kawada/Taue vs. Misawa/Kobashi 12/3/93 Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi 6/9/95 Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Akiyama 12/6/96 Hokuto vs. Kandori Dreamslam Toyota/Yamada vs. Kansai/Ozaki Dreamrush There's a few acclaimed lucha matches I need to see so the list could change in the future. These are definately 5 stars. I have different ratings than others too as I would also qualitfy the following...... Magnum T.A. vs. Tully Blanchard - "I Quit" Steel Cage - Starrcade 85 Rock vs. Austin - Wrestlemania X-7 Flair vs. Steamboat - 2/3 falls - Clash of the Champions 6 just to name a few.......
Guest Monday Night Jericho Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Hansen vs Kobashi, 7/29/93 Misawa vs. Kawada 6/3/94 Kawada/Taue vs. Misawa/Kobashi 12/3/93 Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi 6/9/95 Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Akiyama 12/6/96 Hokuto vs. Kandori Dreamslam Toyota/Yamada vs. Kansai/Ozaki Dreamrush Aside from these I'd add Misawa vs. Kobashi 1/20/97 and would maybe put Misawa vs. Jumbo 6/8/90 and Jumbo vs. Funk 6/11/77 as being strong outside candidates.
Art Sandusky Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 I'm still watching these Flair matches on the DVD and wondering why they're so revered. Am I missing something?
Guest drdrainoscott Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 I'm still watching these Flair matches on the DVD and wondering why they're so revered. Am I missing something? yeah, the fact that they are awesome.... No, but seriously, I thought the same thing the first time I watched them. Then a few weeks later i watched again and I thought they were pretty good, and then I watched again and I saw what the hype was all about. Try doing that, see if it helps.
Guest whitemilesdavis Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 I'm still watching these Flair matches on the DVD and wondering why they're so revered. Am I missing something? Uh, you know what they say, "50,000,000 Elvis fans can't be wrong." Well, I guess everyone has their own tastes, and that's fine, but their is no denying that Flair, in his day, was able to draw in and entertain loads of people with his ring work. Honestly if it doesn't entertain you, I don't know what to tell you. Magnum T.A. vs. Tully Blanchard - "I Quit" Steel Cage - Starrcade 85 God, that's an entertaining piece of brutality isn't it? Those guys totally make you believe the hatred there, and the gimmick was used perfectly to add to the match, unlike last Sunday.
Art Sandusky Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 I'm still watching these Flair matches on the DVD and wondering why they're so revered. Am I missing something? yeah, the fact that they are awesome.... No, but seriously, I thought the same thing the first time I watched them. Then a few weeks later i watched again and I thought they were pretty good, and then I watched again and I saw what the hype was all about. Try doing that, see if it helps. I've been trying to "get" these since I got the DVD back in December. I can't even figure out what makes his Rumble performance so special other than how long he was in there. The one match on the DVD I've enjoyed most by far is the Flair/Funk match. I mean, I love his character and his promos and general presence in the ring (as well as the mannerisms and selling of just about everything), but his offense-minded wrestling itself just hasn't struck a chord with me yet.
Guest Coffey Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 I say "no." My reason being that a 5-star match, to me, would be perfect. A flawless match that every other match would have to be compared to. So, no, I don't think that there has. There have been very good matches...some that even stand the test of time. However there are too many things to factor into the equation. Storyline build-up, psychology, crowd heat, match length, etc.
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 I think Flair's performance is given props because the whole 59 minutes he was in, he never really took a break, and was given some nice beatings. I think Race/Flair from Starrcade 83 is over-rated, I'd say ***1/2-****. Flair/Windham though, if not for the TLD, I'd slap a 5-star on that. The fact it went somewhere around 35:00 and felt like 5:00 made it great. I think the Flair/Steamboat match gets too much praise for the WrestleWar match. I think the Clash match was a bit better. And whoever said Mankind/UT HIAC needs an eye examination. The match completely sucked except for Foley trying to kill himself. If not for the few Holy sh*t bumps, I'd probably put a "-" before the stars. And before the argument starts, there is no such thing as the perfect match, if anyone cares. Just because one match is called ***** doesn't mean everything else compared to it has to be lower. I probably can name 20 5-star matches. (exageration)
Art Sandusky Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Eh, these matches (watching the DVD again now that I've brought it up in my mind) are certainly good, but I'm not seeing what takes them from good to great.
Guest whitemilesdavis Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 In regards to Taker/Foley HIAC. I think what makes a ***** match is one that serves it's purpose to perfection. Which is: A) Moving a storyline, B) To entertain. To that respect, I'd have to say Foley/Taker is really, really good. I can't think of a much more entertaining match.
Guest whitemilesdavis Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Eh, these matches (watching the DVD again now that I've brought it up in my mind) are certainly good, but I'm not seeing what takes them from good to great. To some degree, it would be experiencing the storyline and build to the match. Flair is absolutely GREAT at promoting a match.
Guest Choken One Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Bret Hart Vs Owen Hart WM X Bret Hart Vs Owen Hart Slam 1994 Bret Hart Vs Steve Austin Series 1996 Bret Hart Vs Steve Austin WM 13 The Rock Vs Steve Austin WMX7 Triple H Vs Mick Foley RR 2000 Samoa Joe Vs CM Punk-Ultimate Endurance
Guest Salacious Crumb Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Mysterio/Guerrero - Halloween Havok 97 Flair/Steamboat - 2/3 Falls Magnum TA/Tully Blanchard - "I Quit" cage match
Guest Choken One Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 TA/Tully really didn't age well. I remember seeing it on tape in 1990 as a young boy and being mesmerized by the sicking hate but i watched it on the bloodbath dvd and thought it wasn't really all that great...still, the hate was evident and still sick but not on that ***** level anymore.
Guest Salacious Crumb Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 It aged better than a lot of WWF stuff. Savage/Steamboat especially.
Guest NateRizzle Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 This thread makes me cry. Angle/Benoit? HA! Misawa vs. Kawada from 6/94 Taue/Kawada vs. Misawa/Kobashi from 6/9/95 The 96 RWTL Finals The fact that TLC and Angle/Benoit were mentioned in this thread depresses me.
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Why must we have this thread every month? It always turns into the Puro fans always pick the matches from Japan and think anything ever done in the states sucks, while the non-Puro fans take cheap shots. So....who's Misawa and Kawada? I have no fucking clue who the guys are.
Guest Choken One Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Guys that can't come close to reaching the greatess of Hardcore Holly and Mark Jindrak. Fucking Posers.
The Mandarin Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Jindrak > Misawa I just watched Misawa/Taue and Misawa's dropkick was utterly lifeless. On the other hand, have you SEEN the height Jindrak gets? Therefore, Jindrak > Misawa
Guest Salacious Crumb Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 This thread makes me cry. Angle/Benoit? HA! Misawa vs. Kawada from 6/94 Taue/Kawada vs. Misawa/Kobashi from 6/9/95 The 96 RWTL Finals The fact that TLC and Angle/Benoit were mentioned in this thread depresses me. Please don't cause a Puro vs. North America flame war.
BHK Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 As I said in another thread, Foley/Taker gets ***** from me because I was there live. the reaction after Foley took the bump off the cage was amazing. When Vince came out to check on him the first thing that crossed my mind was "Oh my god he's dead"
Guest Salacious Crumb Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Foley/Taker is not a ***** match. It's two bumps and not much of anything else. The bumps were unreal when they happened but the WWF has overplayed them to the point that they've lost any impact whatsoever.
UseTheSledgehammerUh Posted June 16, 2004 Report Posted June 16, 2004 Foley/Taker is a ***** match. Going into the bout, it was expected to be a "Stinker" due to Taker's ankle injury and Foley not exactly having "classics" with him before. The match is perfectly executed. The "sick bumps" are done in a way to put over both men. The moves in the ring are done to put over both men. The crowd loved it. The announcers were perfect. The drama was real. I wonder if half the people who say "it's not *****! it's bumps and brawling!" have even seen it for it what it truly was. It made the stale Undertaker into a believable non-caring killer. It made Foley into a "you can't stop him! he loves pain!" hero that eventually became a top face. It also gave us stuff we've never seen before. "At the time the bumps were sick!" At the time, Steamboat/Savage and Steamboat/Flair were "classics". Nowadays, I find Savage/Steamboat to be average. Hell in the Cell II: The Best.
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