Australian Pride Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 After the less-than-perfect HIAC match we saw at Bad Blood, and know there is Bullrope match to come at the GAB, it got me thinking of all the gimmick matches on PPV over the years. What was the best, was there anything that comes close to it and was the outright worst. Here's a couple i came up with. Feel free to agree, disagree or add more to the list: Hell In A Cell The Best - Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker at Bad Blood 1997 The next best - Mick Foley vs HHH at No Way Out 2000 The Worst - Big Bossman vs Undertaker at WM15 Steel cage The Best - Bret Hart vs Owen Hart at SummerSlam 94 The next best - The Rock vs Ken Shamrock vs Mick Foley at Breakdown 98 The worst - Hulk Hogan vs Roddy Piper at Halloween Havoc 97 (i think)
Guest Real F'n Show Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Ladder The Best- Shawn vs. Ramon- WM10 The Next Best- Benoit vs. Jericho- Rumble 01 The Worst- Dusty Rhodes vs. Brain Lawler- TNA TLC The Best- TLC 3 The Next Best- TLC 2 The Worst- TLC 4
Guest MikeSC Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Iron Man Best: Bret Hart v Ric Flair --- Boston House Show Runner-Up: Rock v HHH --- Judgment Day (damned good match) Worst: Bret Hart v Shawn Michaels --- WM XII (slow and tedious)
tbondrage99 Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Viagra On A Pole Match: Best: Billy Kidman vs. Shane Douglas Runner Up: Billy Kidman vs. Shane Douglas Worst: Billy Kidman vs. Shane Douglas Thank god there was only one.
razazteca Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 I'm a big fan of the Austin vs Regal Bull Rope match from Smackdown late 2000.
Australian Pride Posted June 17, 2004 Author Report Posted June 17, 2004 Viagra On A Pole Match: Best: Billy Kidman vs. Shane Douglas Runner Up: Billy Kidman vs. Shane Douglas Worst: Billy Kidman vs. Shane Douglas Thank god there was only one. Same goes for the Arkansas Hog Pen Match (Triple H vs Henry Godwinn) and the unforgettable Kennel from Hell (Big Bossman vs Al Snow).
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 The Hogpen Match was actually very good for 1995 Hunter Hearst Helmsley. Iron Man Match: Best: Rock/HHH J-Day 2000 Worst: Angle/Brock 2003 I won't put a middle one since there was only one...and I don't count 30 minute ultimate submission.
UseTheSledgehammerUh Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Give your opinion on FALLS COUNT ANYWHERE matches... Here's a few nominees... Sullivan Vs. Benoit (GAB 96) Sullivan Vs. Benoit (Clash, Jan. 97) HHH Vs. Cactus (Raw 97) Cactus Vs. Van Hammer (Clash, Jan 92) Sting Vs. Cactus (Beach Blast 92) Cactus/Payne Vs. Nastys (Stampede 94) Missing a bunch more, I know. Thoughts?
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 I've only seen about of those listed (Sullivan/Benoit, Payne & Cactus/Nasties, HHH/Cactus, and Sting/Cactus) and all were very good IMO. WWF hasn't held many FCA matches that weren't under Hardcore Title rules. I'll add Savage/Crush though from WM X because it was I think Savages final WWF match, and it was very good with a unique twist to the stipulations.
UseTheSledgehammerUh Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Man Of 1k, for the Iron Man Matches, you should check out Beach Blast '92, which had an AWESOME Rude Vs. Steamboat 30-minute match during the Bill Watts WCW era. Blows Brock/Angle and Bret/Shawn away, easily.
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Wait...WCW used the Iron Man gimmick BEFORE WWF?! First the tap out rule, and now this. WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO!
UseTheSledgehammerUh Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 WCW had a history of using gimmicks or ideas in a half-assed, shitty way before the WWF would soon take them and perfect them.
UseTheSledgehammerUh Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Come to think of it, they also had a history of taking the WWF's gimmicks or storylines and messing them up, too by doing them half-assed. Sigh.
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Rock/HHH maybe, Bret/HBK no, Angle/Brock OH HELL NO.
UseTheSledgehammerUh Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Well, they did a great Owen/Bret Iron Man match. Bret/Flair was damn good, too. Bret/Michaels was pretty good, if not very slow. Angle/Lesnar was good, but marred by commercial breaks and silly falls. Rock/HHH was pretty awesome. The phrase "make them the standard-bearers" would be better than "make them perfect".
DangerousDamon Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 After the less-than-perfect HIAC match we saw at Bad Blood, and know there is Bullrope match to come at the GAB, it got me thinking of all the gimmick matches on PPV over the years. What was the best, was there anything that comes close to it and was the outright worst. Here's a couple i came up with. Feel free to agree, disagree or add more to the list: Hell In A Cell The Best - Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker at Bad Blood 1997 The next best - Mick Foley vs HHH at No Way Out 2000 The Worst - Big Bossman vs Undertaker at WM15 Steel cage The Best - Bret Hart vs Owen Hart at SummerSlam 94 The next best - The Rock vs Ken Shamrock vs Mick Foley at Breakdown 98 The worst - Hulk Hogan vs Roddy Piper at Halloween Havoc 97 (i think) Pssh. That honor belongs to the brutatlity and violence that is Tully Blanchard vs Magnum T.A.
BHK Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Where are Bret/Owen and the Bret/Flair Ironmans as far as star ratings go? and are they both 60 minutes? Also, I've heard that the Nasty Boys vs. Cactus/payne match is in the ***1/2-**** range. The nasty boys had a **** match? How is that possible?
Guest MikeSC Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Where are Bret/Owen and the Bret/Flair Ironmans as far as star ratings go? and are they both 60 minutes? Also, I've heard that the Nasty Boys vs. Cactus/payne match is in the ***1/2-**** range. The nasty boys had a **** match? How is that possible? Bret/Owen, honestly, didn't blow me away. I'd give it a solid ***1/2. Bret v Flair WAS terrific. Easily ****1/2. -=Mike
Guest whitemilesdavis Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Also, I've heard that the Nasty Boys vs. Cactus/payne match is in the ***1/2-**** range. The nasty boys had a **** match? How is that possible? It's not possible. It's an entertaining little brawl with a sick bump by Cactus Jack at the end, but I don't know how you'd even put a star rating on it. They weren't in the ring much at all.
Australian Pride Posted June 17, 2004 Author Report Posted June 17, 2004 Haven't seen any of those falls-count-anywhere from WCW so i cant add to that, but how about: First Blood The best - Steve Austin vs Kane / KOTR 1998 The next best - Steve Austin vs Undertaker / Fully Loaded 1999 The worst - Hulk Hogan vs Ric Flair - Uncensored 1999 (??)
BHK Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 Where are Bret/Owen and the Bret/Flair Ironmans as far as star ratings go? and are they both 60 minutes? Also, I've heard that the Nasty Boys vs. Cactus/payne match is in the ***1/2-**** range. The nasty boys had a **** match? How is that possible? Bret/Owen, honestly, didn't blow me away. I'd give it a solid ***1/2. Bret v Flair WAS terrific. Easily ****1/2. -=Mike Only fan cams of the hart/flair match exist, right? and it was never acknowledged by the WWF? strange. I'm assuming that I can find it on Kazaa or some other P2P program, yes?
Guest krazykat72 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 I feel the Rude/Steamboat Ironman, while a good match (***1/4 good) has some severe flaws, mainly the fact that they did 7 falls in 30 minutes, which was really excessive and it probably would have been best served at 3-2 or even 2-1. These guys had gone 20 minutes on PPV before just going to one fall, so the suspension of disbelief hurts it a little. I enjoyed Bret/Flair and had it pegged at ****. It's definately a highlight of Flair's early 90's run, and frankly one of the last high level matches he had. Michaels/Ramon (Mania X) is my pick for best Ladder match, followed closely by part 2 and Benoit/Jericho. (I'd be really interested to see some of the houseshow ladder matches these two had leading up to Mania) The TLC's while fun, are a little too spotacular for my tastes, but I'd probably peg the one from 'Mania X-7 as the best of the bunch. Bret/Owen was probably the best cage match I've seen. I like Magnum and Tully, but not nearly as much as everyone else seems to. It was an incredibly intense brawl and probably ****, but I find it hard to go higher. Shawn/UT smokes every other HiaC by a mile. Sting/Vader Superbrawl 3 was the best Strap/bullrope match I've seen -Paul Jacobi-
Internet Warfare Posted June 19, 2004 Report Posted June 19, 2004 For me: Cage Match Bret hart vs Owen Hart- SS Mankind vs HHH-? Val Venis vs Rakishi Ladder Match Hardy's vs Edge/Christian- NM '99 HBK vs Razor Ramon- WMX Can't think of any right now Hell in a Cell Foley vs Taker NWO '00 Undertaker vs HBK - BB '97 HHH vs Kevin Nash- ?
Lil' Bitch Posted June 19, 2004 Report Posted June 19, 2004 Really liked: The HHH / Kane Chain match at JD 01 Absolutely hated: The Lesnar / Undertaker Biker Chain match at NM 03 (it was good match in itself, just stapled with a stupid ass gimmick. Chain on a pole, wtf.)
Jericholic82 Posted June 29, 2004 Report Posted June 29, 2004 I haven't seen every big match so I'll limit the list to ones I have seen Ladder Best: Micahels- Ramon 2 summerslam 95 (much better in my opinion and better psychology, points off for a blown ending-Micahels can't get the belt off and tries to fall to the mat and the belt doesn't come off and shawn gets poed 2nd Best Jericho-Benoit (less high flying,more pysch and a great chairshot-benoit does a tope out of the ring into a shot by jericho BRUTAL looking and sounding) Worst- Mankind-Big Bossman Raw late 98 for the hardcore title Cage Best: Bret-Owen Summerslam 94 2nd Best: Angle-Edge from Smackdown 02 Worst Austin-Mcmahon valentines day 99 (more a fun angle than a real match, though Vinces fall from the cage is pretty cool) HIAC Best: HHH/Cactus (awesome build, great spots, ingenious ending) 2nd Best taker/mankind (if only cuz I havent seen any of the others like the first one) worst-taker/bossman nuff said Iron Man Rock/HHH Judgment Day 00 (hands down, the best one I have seen, great drama and action that kept the crowd into it for the full hour, badly botched ending hurts it a bit but still the best) Rude-Steamobat (only saw it once live, but still remember it as a great match funny how I assumed it was for the us title, but I guess it wasnt WTF? Worst Shawn-Bret (boring as hell, needed yknow some falls before the time ran out) Falls Count Anywhere Best: Sting vs Cactus Jack Beach Blast 92 2nd Best: Cactus/payne-nastys (I have the tape, its short but fun) worst: Holly/Show/Gunn wm 15 (hardcore title match) honorable mention-halftime heat 99 mankind vs rock for the wwf title in an empty arena FCA match (not much of a match, as rock beats up foley all over the building while making very funny quips and coomments about it)
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