It's time for you, the POSTERS, to decide!

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Mike was debating such things until you come in and insult him yet somehow he's the troll.

 

Let's go to the debate

 

NoCalMike makes original post

vivisectvi replies to snippet with sarcastic reply

CoreyLazarus cites B4C, is ignored

Mike debates the point of vivi by asking "Does making asinine comments make you cool?"

Betty Houle posts an Ebert column

Mike respoinds to the points in that column by saying ""The Reagans" was MILDLY critical? Ebert is a fucking moron."

Metroman adds thoughts

Mike replies, brings up Liberal support of Moore, calls the film a joke

Mole asks Mike if he's seen the movie which he's calling a joke

Mike says that he doesn't have to see it

Yami notes that Mike's credbility went down with that statement

Mike debates that point by stating "Don't you have more moronic non-points to make elsewhere?"

KKK promises no fat jokes, says he won't see the movie

TheOriginalOrangeGoblin says he loved the movie

NoCalMike says that the thread has been hijacked

Mike refutes that point by saying "This gets filed under "tough shit"."

MrZsasz replies to the Ebert post with "Could you stop being so bitchy and obsessively pedantic?"

Kotz notices the Corey post

Mike pledges to not be bitchy and all that if Zsasz does the same

Renegade mentions a change of the thread title in relation to Mike's replies, reviews the movie

Mike debates the 'thread title' point with "Renegade, you are a dolt", also mentions the idea of a movie with a conspiracy theory about Clinton and Ron Brown wouldn't be reacted to the same

NoCalMike notes that with that idea "it would be fair for to ask that people replying to the thread had actually seen the movie"

godthedog wants the thread to be a Movie topic and not a CE topic

Mike replies to the sentiments about anti-Moore people with "Gee, I feel the same way about the people who think he's just peachy"

godthedog clarifies "yeah, post was edited to make it more clear that i was referring to the degeneration of the whole discussion, not just those who think he's a fat, overrated, lying sack of shit."

Mole questions having an opinion on a movie without seeing it

NoCalMike replies to the first godthedog post with a headbanging symbol

vivisectvi declares Mike's reply to godthedog to be asinine

treble charged asks for the thread to stay on topic

Mike blames NoCalMike and vivisectvi for the thread going off topic, claims they want a "circle jerk"

IllustriousOne notes the title of the folder, and that he hasn't seen the movie

Mike claims the posts were off-topic

IllustriousOne compliments Mike's intelligence, notes that the intentions of the thread were clear

NoCalMike notes the movie was better than expected

Mole comments on the 'circlejerk' by citing the first post

Vitamin X replies to NoCalMike's comments about the 2000 election facts, mentions the ignorance of people

Corey talks about B4C

Mike asks for cites, claims stuff is myths, says that he won't correct Mole because his head is in his ass

JAxlMorrison asks Mike for cites on the invented parts of the movie

Mike thinks JAxl was talking about the Reagans

JAxlMorrison clarifies and says he was talking about Fahrenheit 9/11

Mike cites the errors in Moore's film (which he hadn't seen at this point)

slacklet comes in and the thread falls apart

 

Mike was debating such things until you come in and insult him yet somehow he's the troll.

 

Out of 13 posts to that point, i'd say one post was him taking part in a debate. He goes get half-points for the Ron Brown thing, the reply about how certain Florida events were myths and for the errors in Moore's film. He might get some credit for the post about the errors in "The Reagans"

 

Basically, Mike's posts were made up of various insults to other posters, and not some part of a debate. And he blamed the thread going off-topic on the first two posters. It seems that if he hadn't posted in that thread, it would have stayed a reaction thread. But, he felt the need to comment with the debate inspiring "Does making asinine comments make you cool?".

 

Ok Mad Dog. Whatever ya say.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

When a thread gets far too long for me to read I want Rob doing play-by-play for it.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Rob E Dangerously presents 'Cliff Notes: TSM'. So you won't have to read though all those long threads.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Again, every other Moore post goes this way so you have to expect that. I would have more sympathy from someone who didn't resort to actually flaming in the actual thread and then trolling Mike in another. It reeks of hypocrisy and adds to this new sentiment that if you can't out debate someone that you try your damnedest to get them banned.

 

And I'm no Mike defender either. He and I have ripped each other to shreds in the TNA folder several times in the last few weeks. But people bitching about situations where they resort to the level of the person they complain about it highly irritating.

[IllustriousOne 0]

Key word being "try" in "try to get them banned"

[Guest INXS]

I don't think anyone should be banned unless they clearly violate any of the rules/terms of service. I understand that all forum mods, at any board on the net, enjoy their power and go off on a power trip every now and then but I expect that at the "mark" boards i.e WZForums and certainly not here.

 

Yeah, Mike is annoying, yeah I don't agree with almost all of his views but in no way does he deserve a ban.

[Si82 0]

I'm going to add MikeSC as well. He was giving his opinion on Farenhiet 9/11, even though he did not see it. Maybe I'm the only one who see something wrong with that, I don't know. But then, when you have EVERYONE as a credible source, like Mike claims to, then I guess you can do that.

I totally agree. The guy just whored up that thread giving his "opinion" on a film he hadn't seen (he might have by now as he was downloading it). I understand that you hate Michael Moore but just shut the fuck up until you have a reason to post in the thread.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

It's not favoritism towards anyone; Tom pretty much doesn't ban people, period.  Whenever a regular CE poster is banned, it's usually some other mod who did it.

Fair enough, however it certainly seems like he was condoning "flaming outside of HD" which is a fundamental rule here. Authority should not pick and choose which rules to uphold.

Amazing the revisionist history we have around here. Flaming outside of HD used to be a MAJOR offense, one numerous posters were banned for. The reason why this folder even exists is because of rampant flaming in the WWE folder over HHHate and other random bullshit. COINCIDENTALLY (or not), when the CE folder came to prominence and Marney came about, this rule was relaxed to allow flaming in the CE folder since so many posters were complaining about it.

 

Now, I'm going to stop right here. If posters are complaining about flaming in the CE folder, what would YOU do? (A) Stop it so that the complaints would cease? Or (B) Relax the rules to allow what most people want stopped? Well, you can guess what happened here.

 

After the rules were relaxed in CE, the walls came down in other forum as well, since some of the CE regulars posted in other forums too. Then, the non CE posters started flaming each other on a regular basis with no moderation. This is also the time the WWE folder stareted to drop in quality with a number of low quality, flame happy posters registering. With no rules against flaming, well the original one with as much potency as a limp dick, they had free reign to do as they wished. And here we are today.

 

So, don't think for a second that flaming was never a major, bannable offense. It was. Else, this folder would never have existed.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Oh please, the biggest complainers about the CE folder are people that can't hold their own in an argument. Like I posted earlier the new attitude here is that if you can't win a debate with someone that you run around the board trying to get them banned at every turn.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

I love it how some people make this into a CE VS. THE BOARD situation.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

I heard some of these dudes are gonna invade the CE folder later.

 

So heads up!

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

ARM THE TREEHOUSES

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

I love it how some people make this into a CE VS. THE BOARD situation.

And who praytell is doing that? Just giving a little bit of forum history. Flaming WAS relaxed in the CE folder first. As for this banning thing, I don't know how this is turning into a CE vs. The Board war, is it because Mike is involved or something?

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

After the rules were relaxed in CE, the walls came down in other forum as well, since some of the CE regulars posted in other forums too

 

 

Haha, well, right there you're blaming "CE regulars" for flaming all over the rest of the board.

 

Personally, I really don't care. I just think it's funny, as I stated up there.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I love it how some people make this into a CE VS. THE BOARD situation.

And who praytell is doing that? Just giving a little bit of forum history. Flaming WAS relaxed in the CE folder first. As for this banning thing, I don't know how this is turning into a CE vs. The Board war, is it because Mike is involved or something?

So it seems to you at least Marney is all to blame for this...... yet at most she visted maybe 3 forums at TSM. And most of the other CE regulars with the expection of 2 or 3 only visit another folder or two.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Justify your post all you want.  Your just as guilty of anything wrong in that thread as he is.

 

And way to troll him in another thread to completely become what you're accusing him of.

HEY MAN! I used the word "pedantic" and that's an impressive word. All he did was "I know you are, but what am I?"

[Dr. Tom 0]

COINCIDENTALLY (or not), when the CE folder came to prominence and Marney came about, this rule was relaxed to allow flaming in the CE folder since so many posters were complaining about it.

Again, you'd probably have to try to be more wrong.

 

This is the way it actually went down. A couple people complained to goodhelmet (don't ask me why) about "flaming" in the CE folder. These were people who made ridiculous posts and got a good, deserved drubbing from the forum regulars for it. Helmet made a thread about the situation, calling me out to explain it. I did, saying that hated debate is sine qua non to any CE board, and that what happened in ours was mild in my experience (which it was, and still is). He went on about the Grand Unfairness of Things for a while, and the compromise was that the disclaimer that used to be at the door to CE was put into place. That let people know they were stepping into potential hostile territory, and not to go in if they couldn't handle it.

 

People who have been posting there from the beginning have never once complained about "flaming." They know what it's like to argue politics, ethics, religion, and things like that. A couple thin-skinned folks complained, and the disclaimer was put into place. It's not that the board rules didn't apply in there; it's that, right or wrong, the rest of the staff saw CE as "my" forum (and I was the local mod for it before I became a global), and my position has always been that "flaming" was a ludicrously overrated messageboard offense. People who tear up because a stranger called them a name on the internet have some issues they need to work out, and I'm not going to censure someone who makes good points and good posts because some ninny got his panties in a twist. Suck it up and deal or move on.

 

After the rules were relaxed in CE, the walls came down in other forum as well, since some of the CE regulars posted in other forums too.

Ah, so those damn CE people up and ruined the whole board. Boo-hoo. Plenty of people made confrontational, "flaming" posts in other forums. Don't blame a few folks for the sins of everyone else. For the bad press CE has collectively gotten recently, I'd take a million folks like Marney, Mike, Tyler, NoCalMike, Cerebus, Vyce, Powerplay, JotW, kkk, and a few others over any of the idiots and serial whiners who have ever fouled this board with their presences.

 

This is also the time the WWE folder stareted to drop in quality with a number of low quality, flame happy posters registering.

Which pretty much shoots that theory that the CE folks killed the board right in the ass.

 

So, don't think for a second that flaming was never a major, bannable offense.

I don't recall anyone saying it wasn't. The point is that there's no global rule against it today. Flaming has always been a silly offense on any board, and we finally got tired of catering to ninnies.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Oh please, the biggest complainers about the CE folder are people that can't hold their own in an argument.  Like I posted earlier the new attitude here is that if you can't win a debate with someone that you run around the board trying to get them banned at every turn.

There's a difference between legitimately winning a debate and calling someone evil and stupid in eighty different ways. In cases where providing evidence is an issue, you provide it and then are debunked because it wasn't evidence against your exact argument, or perhaps countering with a source that is (often, but to their credit not always) stilted in its viewpoint already.

 

Granted, some of the people in CE are better suited for debate than others, but I'm not going to confuse holding a viewpoint with ability to argue. I'm predisposed towards the left, but I can admire the abilities of some of the right-wing posters in there. Mike and Marney just happen to be two whose abilities I do not admire, because they don't just leave it within the confines of the issue, choosing instead to browbeat whoever is questioning a point they make. The same goes for people who can make nothing but Moore fat jokes, and people who say "If it was a DEMOCRAT, you wouldn't be upset!" The same is true on the liberal side. Tyler and JotW are great (as I consider Cerebrus as a good example of a right-thinking poster that can argue properly), but for each of those, there's just as many on the liberal side that make us look like retards.

 

I'd like to think I'm not one of them, but even I get dragged into stupid quasi-flamewars with Mike and the like more often than I should (which is never). If someone can adequately show me how I'm wrong, as Cerebrus did when I questioned why it was a big deal that the Christian population in Palestine has dropped so drastically, then I shut up. Perhaps I should note to that poster that proves me wrong that they did so, and I'm not just going quiet because I'm a sore loser. Tell me I'm evil, hate America, etc., and I'll just fight right back because such statements are just bullshit.

 

What has unfortunately happened is that CE has gotten the reputation of being something of a folder for the intellectually elite, which it isn't. Each folder on this board has its intelligent people, yet for some reason the CE folks are held in a higher regard, probably because they, for the most part, will attack someone else's intelligence more than a denizen of another folder. It's a case of buying into its own hype. People avoid CE because they don't think they're smart enough to go in there. Others avoid it because they don't want to be dissected and flamed. Any attempted evening of the playing field is not catering to dumber people as some would have you believe, rather it's just that, making things even.

 

I personally don't worry about the banning of any of the CE regulars until they take their tendencies outside of the folder and start ruining things elsewhere, as Mike did most recently in the Movies folder. CE has always been HD with political topics rather than whatever we BS around with down here, and that isn't changing any time soon, so I'm not going to complain about it. But, as with HD, when people take their stuff elsewhere on the board, it needs to be addressed.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I don't think it's any of the regulars and semi-regulars that are a problem with it, Kotz. But there are definately several people like Yamii who rip on CE constantly and most of the occupants. More times than not this person turns out to be someone that stupidly stepped into the forum, got their ass throughly handed to them by someone and now whines about it to this day. I take it Marney was the one since he seems to have such a vendetta against her but who knows. All I know is that I see a lot of complaints from people who never post in there.

 

And I don't really see a big problem with Mike or Marney's style. It's a lot less friendly but it's still a popular debating strategy. And I agree with Tom that the CE board here is nothing compared to some of the others.

 

I am by no means a Mike defender as I said earlier. But he definately doesn't deserve to be banned. He and I have ripped each other to shreds in the TNA folder and quasi-flamed each other but he'll be totally civil in other threads. So I definately don't see the trolling argument of some.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

RE: Spoon.

 

Why? Just ignore people. Like, if you spent that entire post complaining about me or something, I could've just ignored it, and posted a picture of Cosby here instead.

 

The "CE folder dynamic" or whatever you want to call it is only that because it's a selective group of posters that know what each others viewpoints are, have personal assessments of one another, and act badly accordingly. It's the same in the music folder where everyone knows everyone's tastes, same in here, so on and so forth, just different people. The problem people are having is that the rats are out of the cage, so to speak.

 

Lets all just clean our shorts like big boys, and go on with our lives, dig?

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

Why? Just ignore people. Like, if you spent that entire post complaining about me or something, I could've just ignored it, and posted a picture of Cosby here instead.

The secret to my success at this board: I really don't give a fuck about what most of you have to say about anything. Starting threads calling for some faceless internet nerds to be banned because they said you smell bad and fuck your mother requires a certain amount of emotional investment in the board, the level of which I will never have.

 

Message boards are for shits and giggles, guys. Nothing else.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

If you hadn't clarified that, it would look like you attribute everything to Cosby, which is more or less true also. He jumpstarted your messageboarding career, you know..

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

Yeah, really. I couldn't get out of Kinetic's shadow until I found that Cosby picture.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

It's a lot less friendly but it's still a popular debating strategy.

 

Um Mad Dog, I don't think the style I usually see from Mike is much of a debating strategy. Maybe I just haven't been enlightened to the debating strategies where you insult your opponent and various other people, while blaming others.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

I love it how some people make this into a CE VS. THE BOARD situation.

 

well everyone likes you Tyler.

 

As for myself I regret saying anything.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

It's a lot less friendly but it's still a popular debating strategy.

 

Um Mad Dog, I don't think the style I usually see from Mike is much of a debating strategy. Maybe I just haven't been enlightened to the debating strategies where you insult your opponent and various other people, while blaming others.

Then you don't pay attention to debates very much. They take it somewhat to an extreme but taking shots at the person you're debating is fairly common.

[Nighthawk 0]

If you're gay, yeah.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

It's a lot less friendly but it's still a popular debating strategy.

 

Um Mad Dog, I don't think the style I usually see from Mike is much of a debating strategy. Maybe I just haven't been enlightened to the debating strategies where you insult your opponent and various other people, while blaming others.

Then you don't pay attention to debates very much. They take it somewhat to an extreme but taking shots at the person you're debating is fairly common.

I forgot such classic debate moments as

 

"Perot, you are a dolt" - Clinton, 92

 

"Does making asinine comments make you cool?" - Mondale, 84

 

"This gets filed under "tough shit"." - Carter, 80, commenting on the recession

 

Damn.

 

[Guest slacklet]

It's a lot less friendly but it's still a popular debating strategy.

 

Um Mad Dog, I don't think the style I usually see from Mike is much of a debating strategy. Maybe I just haven't been enlightened to the debating strategies where you insult your opponent and various other people, while blaming others.

Then you don't pay attention to debates very much. They take it somewhat to an extreme but taking shots at the person you're debating is fairly common.

So you're saying in CE they debate a topic not with the intent of drawing a conclusion, but merely to stress each individual's personal ideals to the point of repetition?

 

Great debating strategy right there.