The Punisher (1990/2004) question...

[Guest Vitamin X]

OK, so I'm quite a Punisher mark and I loved the 2004 version, but the other day I was flipping through channels and saw The Punisher on the TV, and looked to see if it was based on the comic. Sure enough, their mention of Frank Castle and the badassedness of the character were all there, but this one was EXTREMELY different from the 2004 version. Dolph Lundgren (a Sylvester Stallone lookalike who can't act, if that says anything about his talent..) played Frank Castle and the film was of rather crappy quality.

 

With all that said, I'm curious to know more about this 1990 version. I know obviously the 2004 version details the origins of Frank Castle turning into the Punisher, but from what I saw in the 1990 version, he was already punishing, and this took place in NYC instead of Florida. Can anyone more informed tell me how one got to the other, and what the older one was based on?

 

It's pretty obvious this movie bombed also, as I had never heard of it and it was TERRIBLE. Thomas Jane does the role so much better.

[Guest Samurai Johnny Frankenstein]

Actually, I thought Dolph was pretty good, everyone else was terrible.

 

When Louis Gossett Jr. gets second billing, it's a bad movie

[Guest DVD Spree]

Never heard Dolph referred to as a Sly lookalike, but hey.

[JasonX]

The 1990s version is a lot more dark and depressing and that the Lundgren (who dyed his blond hair black for the part) makes Punisher much much much more of a dark and tragic figure. The 1990 version also tells of the whole origin of the Punisher right off the bat and doesn't spend no-where near as much time on it than the 2004 version did.

 

The plot for the 1990 version is also based upon an original story while the 2004 film's plot is loosely based upon the Garth Ennis written Punisher mini-series....

[BrokenTiger]

Dolph Lundgren is a Sylvester Stallone lookalike who can't act?

 

*watches Rocky IV again*

 

No. Or maybe I've gone senile. You're right about the 'can't act' part, though.

 

I prefer the original origin of the Punisher (before Marvel Knights relaunch the title, I think) although Thomas Jane carried the role of Punisher/Frank Castle extremely well.

 

Any plans for a sequel to the movie?

[Guest Vitamin X]

Well I suppose that Lundgren looks a lot like Stallone in this particular role since his hair is dyed black and he has the infamous Sly drawl.

 

I'm pretty sure they're going to make a sequel. Marvel Films is absolutely annihilating the general public with the quality of their comic adaptations (First X-Men, Spidey, and then Punisher)... We'll just forget about the Hulk. Am I the only one here by the way who felt that the music used for the opening credits would have been a MUCH better song than the one used for the closing ones? The movie ends on such a quiet, dark tone and then it kind of ruins the moment with the horrible nu-metal at the end.

 

So then the 1990 version used the actual origin of the Punisher whereas the 2004 version used another version? I really liked the slow-burn though, and the time spent on the origin really gave a lot of value to the end part after Castle kills off Travolta's character and he's about to commit suicide because his work was done and decides to instead take the law into his own hands. That really was the moment that defined the greatness of the movie for me.

[nogoodnick]

Im sure their doing a Punisher sequel. Are they doing a sequel to the Hulk? One that doesn't suck maybe?

[Guest Vitamin X]

Impossible. For that to happen, the entire Hulk character would have to actually be interesting first.

 

"Rarrr! I'm angry and turn into a giant nuclear green beast! But when I'm not I'm a pussy-ass scientist."

 

Yeah fuck a bunch of that. Though it'll probably get a sequel because the first one made a fair amount at the box office (sadly, possibly more than Punisher because Punisher had to open up against Kill Bill Vol. 2)

[Guest SpiderFan]

There was a story up at Super Hero Hype awhile ago that said Lions Gate is unsure of a sequel, since the first one didn't make what they thought it would (did it turn a profit? I'm not sure it did) and if they do go ahead, it might be direct-to-video.

[TheBigSwigg]

OK, so I'm quite a Punisher mark and I loved the 2004 version, but the other day I was flipping through channels and saw The Punisher on the TV, and looked to see if it was based on the comic. Sure enough, their mention of Frank Castle and the badassedness of the character were all there, but this one was EXTREMELY different from the 2004 version. Dolph Lundgren (a Sylvester Stallone lookalike who can't act, if that says anything about his talent..) played Frank Castle and the film was of rather crappy quality.

 

With all that said, I'm curious to know more about this 1990 version. I know obviously the 2004 version details the origins of Frank Castle turning into the Punisher, but from what I saw in the 1990 version, he was already punishing, and this took place in NYC instead of Florida. Can anyone more informed tell me how one got to the other, and what the older one was based on?

 

It's pretty obvious this movie bombed also, as I had never heard of it and it was TERRIBLE. Thomas Jane does the role so much better.

I like the story of the original much better than the new one. Though Thomas Jane owns Dolph Lundgren as the Punisher, pretty much everything else in the second was a waste of time to me.

[Zack Malibu]

You can find the older Punisher movie in the Wal-Mart bargain bin. I believe it was an Australian production as well. It's completely an original story, as you'd never see Punisher striking a deal with a mob boss out of any form of sympathy. The recent version was much, much better. The '90's version is a good popcorn action flick, nothing more.

 

I believe a Hulk sequel is coming, and I can't wait for it. I loved the first one and am a fan of anything Hulk as it is. A Punisher sequel is also rumored, but the talk of it being direct to video is something new. I'd doubt it going DTV though, since Marvel is raking in the dough at the box office.

[dubq]

So then the 1990 version used the actual origin of the Punisher whereas the 2004 version used another version?

Neither used the actual origin.

 

Frank Castle, in the comics, is a bitter ex-Vietnam vet whose family is killed because they witnessed a mob rub-out during a "wrong place at the wrong time" scenario while picnicing in Central Park.

[Lil' Bitch]

Another difference is:

 

1990 version: The Punisher fights the Yakuza

 

2004: The Punisher fights John Travolta and his hired goons.

 

 

 

The 1990 version was pretty violent, the only things I didn't like about it were that Dolph didn't have the skull on his chest, and no the skulls at the end of the knifes weren't good enough, and he was living in the sewers or some shit.

[Guest Vitamin X]

So then the 1990 version used the actual origin of the Punisher whereas the 2004 version used another version?

Neither used the actual origin.

 

Frank Castle, in the comics, is a bitter ex-Vietnam vet whose family is killed because they witnessed a mob rub-out during a "wrong place at the wrong time" scenario while picnicing in Central Park.

That sounds like what they used for the 1990 version.

 

Either way, the 2004 version was much better.

[dubq]

So then the 1990 version used the actual origin of the Punisher whereas the 2004 version used another version?

Neither used the actual origin.

 

Frank Castle, in the comics, is a bitter ex-Vietnam vet whose family is killed because they witnessed a mob rub-out during a "wrong place at the wrong time" scenario while picnicing in Central Park.

That sounds like what they used for the 1990 version.

 

Either way, the 2004 version was much better.

I think in the 1990 version they turned him into an ex-cop instead of an ex-vet.

[Guest Big_Jay101]

Yeah in the 1990 version he was an ex-cop. He was fighting the Yakuza because they kidnapped children and he struck a deal with a mob boss to help. Then kiled the mob boss.

[Guest Joshua A. Norton]

The '89 Punisher wasn't that faithful to the comics because Marvel gave the producers a “restricted license” that granted them the rights to the title and the character, but not the more specific details.

[Conspiracy_Victim]

Well I looked it up on IMDB and it looks like it just BARELY broke even. I can never figure out if IMDB's "budget" listing includes advertizing, but it had a $33 million budget and as of June 27 had made $33,571,379 in the USA. Depensing on how it does overseas they may see a small return.

 

Personally I hope they make a sequal. I wasn't expecting a whole lot out of Thomas Jane but he was surprisingly good. The Castle/Russian fight was the best fight I've seen Kevin Nash have in a long time *rimshot*.

[Guest Vitamin X]

They should open up anytime other than the big summer season. Against Kill Bill Vol. 2 was just too much to handle, but with the right amount of advertising and intrigue, I thought it could hang with the Hulks and X-Mens of the world.

[Secret Agent]

Wait till Punisher is out on DVD. DVD sales can help make or break a movie anymore, and any sequels for it.

[Guest Samurai Johnny Frankenstein]

Also, it hasn't been released in Europe

[Guest combat_rock]

I do believe at some point they're going to have to make the cop story official cannon, because right now, most Vietnam vets are in their fifties or older.

 

In fact, I've heard that the "Born" mini-series may have been the official goodbye to that part of the Punisher legacy, which is sad, because if you read it, it's obvious the horrors of Nam played a big role in Castle's life, stuff that even the most hardened police officers never see.

[JasonX]

I do believe at some point they're going to have to make the cop story official cannon, because right now, most Vietnam vets are in their fifties or older.

 

In fact, I've heard that the "Born" mini-series may have been the official goodbye to that part of the Punisher legacy, which is sad, because if you read it, it's obvious the horrors of Nam played a big role in Castle's life, stuff that even the most hardened police officers never see.

Actually "Born" was a glorified vanity project for Garth Ennis, who's been wanting to do a war comic about Vietnam for quite some time but could never get DC to greenlight him doing a Vietnam-themed story as part of his ongoing "War Stories" series for the company.