Oh the memories of WWE in 2000

[Styles 0]

I always like to pop in on threads that mention the show to say I was AT Backlash 00 live, and the show was very awesome! Everyone marked out huge for Big Show as Hogan and every time Austin was so much shown in a video package the place exploded, it was such chaos when he finally came out. Insane heat.

[Kizzo 0]

Well, when they're hot they're hot, but the trick that the "genius" Mcmahon hasn't figured out yet is to stabilize things not to have the highs and lows in such a discrepancy over the years. I think 1999 was an even better year financially. What were the numbers a year or two later? I also think it's more than just storyline, but the wrestler's character's fleshing out to mature that year. It's kind of a climax from the build up from late 1997 with the roster being added with the influx of the wcw guys like the Radicalz, Big Show, Jericho etc. jumping.

I agree...

[Enigma 0]

The best part of that was big show wearing a golfball in a sock in his trunks to make fun of all the "Hogan stuffs his trunks" accusations other wrestlers made.

[Guest Staravenger]

2000 was the ONLY year I ordered every WWF PPV...and 1994, but that only had 5. The year was just great overall, and every RAW & SD seemed good.

 

I remember marking out when Jericho "won" the title...then got uber pissed at the reverse decision and wanted HHH To lose even more.

[Sideburnious 0]

Wow look how skinny Big show looks.

 

 

Other than that fond memories, i remeber laughing my ass off for that. It helps that I like Big Show and Kurt Angle

[algrim 0]

I really enjoyed the Maelnko/S2H bout, as well as the Y2J/Benoit match. The only thing that ruined the match was the DQ finish. The main event was good, even if with all the interference.

 

I keep forgetting about Eddie's match with Essa Rios. It was okay too. Does anybody have a pic of Trish wearing that sexy pink outfit?

[IWD 0]

Backlash 2000 was perhaps the best non big four ppv of all-time. That should have been WM 2000 imo.

I think No Way Out 2001 was the best non-big-4 ever, but Backlash 2000 was a lot of fun.

[chaosrage 0]

Were you?

 

The Rock was by far the most over wrestler in the promotion and clearly the top man.

Who said he wasn't the most over? Most over and the top guy are two different things.

[chaosrage 0]

Well, looking at a Raw ratings history, there were only 3 shows that cracked 7 that year, and two of those were post-PPV shows (following Backlash and Judgment Day, the other came in the week going into Backlash).  In June, Raw drew two 5's (both during HHH's 4th title reign), then pretty much stayed in the 6's until August 21 with Rock as champion (the only exceptions were July 3rd, which drew a 5.3--you could probably attribute to the upcoming holiday-- and August 14, which happened at the height of the HHH/Angle program, a period where Rock didn't even have a real program, so the show basically revolved around HHH).  They scored back to back 4's to close out August (late night shows due to the US Open), and two high 5's to start off September (judging from the list, the post-Open numbers tend to be a bit lower than normal historically) before the switch to TNN on the 25th, which is when the ratings really began to taper off. 

The ratings only fell from a 5.7 to a 5.4 when they moved to TNN. It stayed there for 3 weeks and fell to a 4.8 while the Rock was still champion. Most fans found TNN, so I don't think you can blame the switch for the ratings drop. If you brush off the 7s because they were post-PPV shows, you have to figure out why didn't Rock's post-ppv shows get 7s. The day after KOTR got a 6.4. 6.2 after Fully Loaded.

 

I forgot about the US Open, but post-Open numbers in 99 stayed about the same. The week before it was a 5.9, the week after was a 6. They did go down in 97 and 98, but it went right back up. 96 stayed the same.

 

Anyway, for whatever reason, the decline in ratings started in August with the Rock as champ. HHH beating Foley on three PPVs and winning the two big matches against the Rock had no affect on ratings, unless it was positive. Like you said, they were still doing 6's in July, so fans didn't just leave because they were pissed that he pinned Vince instead of HHH. They stayed around for a month or two and then decided to stop watching.

 

He could defend the title. If a face has strong opposition, it's just as interesting watching him try to hold onto the title as it is watching him try to attain it. If the chase is more interesting in WWE, it's only because they tend not to have an abundance of strong heels.

 

Well that's another argument for why he shouldn't have got the belt. 2000 had a lot more faces than heels. And when the Rock got the title in June, he didn't have anyone to fight. So we ended up having matches every week with him against Bossman or T & A.

 

But even with strong heels, it's a lot harder to make it interesting if the heels are the ones chasing for the belt. Seeing someone sucessfully defend the title doesn't have anything on seeing them win it.. especially if they're putting an end to an unstoppable monster heel at the same time.

 

It wouldn't really matter if they didn't win it because there would always be someone else there to try to take it. Rock wouldn't lose anything because he didn't get beat clean. I was kinda pissed when he lost it because I thought he'd face Jericho for the title at Fully Loaded. Then go on to drop it to Angle at SS. Makes more sense than how they did it.

[chaosrage 0]

HHH held the world heavyweight title for a long time basically in 2002 and 2003, yet it was boring because he didn't have too many strong faces. It's the strength of the roster in terms of faces and heels. I mean Triple H wan't hot in 2000 all by himself now was he?

The thing is in 2002 and 2003 everyone knew no one had a chance of beating him. He never came close to losing and when ever he finally did, he would just came back and bury them in a few weeks anyway. That's why it was boring. Compare that to 2000 where people could buy Rock, Foley, Jericho, even Taka and Holly beating HHH. I wouldn't call Holly or Taka strong faces, but somehow HHH turned them into stars for one night and made people care about them.

 

I think 1999 was an even better year financially. What were the numbers a year or two later?

 

I don't know the numbers, but according to Meltzer, 2000 was the best year for business in the history of wrestling.

[thuganomics 0]

I guarantee WWE made more money in 2000. Better shows and storylines overall, and they'd sucked even more of the fans away from WCW, which was still doing all right financially for the first half of the year or so.

 

I still hold that WCW could have remained successful if not for poor booking for the first 3/4 of the year and Time Warner's desire to get rid of it at ANY cost.

 

As to what killed the ratings of WWE. One Word: Invasion. Casual fans got absolutely sick of seeing these people they CHOSE NOT TO WATCH months earlier wrestling the stars they cared a lot more about.

[Guest Staravenger]

IMO, most of 1999 sucked for WWF. I can barely remember any of the feuds that weren't in the main event scene, and the titles were joke trophys changing hands every week (I'm over the top on that, but the IC Title changed hands like 16 times, the World Title somewhere around 10, and GOD knows how many tag title changes).

[Kizzo 0]

I still hold that WCW could have remained successful if not for poor booking for the first 3/4 of the year and Time Warner's desire to get rid of it at ANY cost.

IMO...if AOL had not merged with Time Warner...wCw would probaly still be here today...because Ted Turner would still be a player in the company...he was very pissed when wCw was sold from under him...and planted the seeds for him to leave the company a year or two later..

 

As you can see AOL Time Warner is no more...and they went back to Time Warner as the official name of the company.....it was a poor merger...and the company made some bad decisions..

[Papacita 0]

The ratings only fell from a 5.7 to a 5.4 when they moved to TNN. It stayed there for 3 weeks and fell to a 4.8 while the Rock was still champion. Most fans found TNN, so I don't think you can blame the switch for the ratings drop.

I know a bunch of people who didn't have TNN at the time, and therefore couldn't watch the show. Also, the first TNN show was the night after Unforgiven which got one of the best buyrates of the year. Now coming off of the climax (disappointing or not) of arguably the hottest storyline of the year in HHH/Angle AND Austin's return, the show ends up doing worse than the final USA show. Even if the PPV was disappointing (and it was still fairly enjoyable, although I'm probably a little biased on that), realistically what fan wouldn't tune in to at least see Austin's return to Raw? Also, just look at the Smackdown ratings, which, while not as high as they were in January and April, were still fairly consistent with what they'd been doing throughout the year. While I've got absolutely no love for the product they were putting out at the time, it's fairly obvious that the TNN switch hurt their ratings. And again, you really can't put the blame on Rock, because he'd been doing next to nothing since Fully Loaded.

 

If you brush off the 7s because they were post-PPV shows, you have to figure out why didn't Rock's post-ppv shows get 7s. The day after KOTR got a 6.4. 6.2 after Fully Loaded.

HHH and Rock ME'd both those PPVs. They were the two biggest stars in the company, they had a fairly hot and longstanding feud, and people were interested in the outcome. Fully Loaded had a pretty solid build all around, but with 3 lesser known stars headlining the show, it's not very likely that they'd draw as much. And for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that the post-SummerSlam would've cracked 7 (or at least a high 6) off of HHH/Angle alone if not for the Open.

 

I forgot about the US Open, but post-Open numbers in 99 stayed about the same. The week before it was a 5.9, the week after was a 6.

Smackdown had just debuted, so it was easier to maintain interest that year than in others because the product was a little fresher. You could argue that once Smackdown settled into its groove, the excitement died down, and by the time 2000 rolled around, it just didn't have the impact that it did a year earlier.

 

HHH beating Foley on three PPVs and winning the two big matches against the Rock had no affect on ratings, unless it was positive.

Of course when you consider that those were the three biggest guys in the company at the time.

 

Well that's another argument for why he shouldn't have got the belt. 2000 had a lot more faces than heels. And when the Rock got the title in June, he didn't have anyone to fight. So we ended up having matches every week with him against Bossman or T & A.

Well, just going by PPVs, an eventual rematch with HHH should've been a given. He easily could've gone back-to-back PPVs against Benoit, who, while not on HHH's level, was coming up pretty strong at the time. Angle or even Taker could've been sufficient challengers for Unforgiven. And then, of course, JERICHO would beat him at No Mercy (WHY DIDN'T THEY TURN THAT MAN?!). With the reign that he got, there were plenty of people he could've worked with.

 

But even with strong heels, it's a lot harder to make it interesting if the heels are the ones chasing for the belt. Seeing someone sucessfully defend the title doesn't have anything on seeing them win it.. especially if they're putting an end to an unstoppable monster heel at the same time.

Nothing's as special as the first win, but people don't suddenly lose interest once they get the title. If your team wins the Super Bowl, you don't suddenly turn on them and stop caring by the next season, you watch to see them defend their title. People like to see their favorites win, and when there's opposition strong enough to put the win in doubt, it makes it that much sweeter when the favorite pulls the win out. It's just a matter of keeping the heels strong and not making the face champion look invincible. And they really don't have to limit the challengers to heels all the time. If face Jericho is over enough, I don't see why he couldn't challenge Rock for the title.

 

It wouldn't really matter if they didn't win it because there would always be someone else there to try to take it.

Same thing with having the heel challenger retain. That's how title reigns go.

 

Rock wouldn't lose anything because he didn't get beat clean.

HHH had beaten Rock damn near everytime they'd faced since Fully Loaded 99. Clean or not, you can only lose so many times before you start to look weak, and with the mainstream exposure Rock was getting, it'd be stupid to keep having him lose all the time. Rock was the main star in the company, so it made the most sense to put the title on him and give him a nice run.

[iggymcfly 0]

For all the arguments about the little mistakes the WWE made in 1999 and 2000, the shows were great then. They were consistently entertaining and the problems were far from troublesome. Yeah, things started to get a little stale in the summer of 2000 when Rock and HHH faced each other for the title four PPVs in a row, but the shows were still very good. In fact, going into WM X-7, they were back to being as good as they had ever been, if not better. Ratings and buyrates were at an all-time high, and any little "problems" weren't hurting the product significantly at all. The problem was that with The Rock injured, the only real big money feud they could push in the spring/summer of 2001 was Austin/HHH. Then, before they actually got to that match, HHH got injured.

 

Then, in the summer, the Rock finally came back to save the day. People were just aching for that to happen. They were counting down the weeks one by one, about a month and a half in advance. He cut one quick promo on Austin, and then all of a sudden started feuding with Booker T who ABSOLUTELY NO ONE cared about at the time, and the backlash was so strong that Booker still hasn't completely recovered to this day. At the time, they did a pretty good job of building a star in Angle, but they were so focused on the crappy invasion storyline that everyone was still turned off, and then the WWE started losing their fanbase for good. By the time they skipped over Austin/Rock again and started booking Jericho as a joke champion, the WWE had lost a huge group of fans that they would never ever get back.