Why I respect Jim Cornette

[Guest Coffey]

Which is something I suggested and still stand by.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

*bows to Coffey*

[Guest Coffey]

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

SHO NUFF!

 

Jacuqes, I have but one thing to say to you: woosh. The point of my little "essay," as you called it (but if it were an essay it would have gotten an F, since it's more a recap until the last few sentences), was to demonstrate how Jarrett made Raven - a person the fans wanted to see win the title from day one - appear to be a jobber. He kicked out of Raven's finisher, which is the only DDT people sell these days. He kicked out of a move even Hulk Hogan would have sold like death: the double superkick conchairto. He made Raven look like complete shit, which is not something you're supposed to do to your top heel.

 

Face it. Jarrett cannot draw, does not know how to put anybody but himself over, and does not realize that new fans tuning into TNA would prefer to see Truth or Styles over himself. He has always been a midcard-level talent, is still a midcard-level talent, and always will be a midcard-level talent. The sooner he himself learns this, the better off he and TNA will be. Booking somebody that was made to look like a complete joke in the biggest company in the world (when they don't have a hardcore fanbase behind them) as your top talent is only acceptable if the company you are running is a small, independent promotion. TNA is trying to become a large competitor to World Wrestling Entertainment. This will not happen until they learn how to book a company again. The main event is "The Jeff Jarrett Show," and Jarrett does not have the aura of having been in the main event during the most profitable era of any large company to warrant such booking (as even Triple H was the top talent in the WWF during its record-breaking run in 2000, thus earning him the right to at least believe he is a draw).

 

I want you to point out why Jarrett is a draw and is good for TNA as its World champion. And be civil about it, because the TNA folder is under heavy watch by the mods now, so it would not be a wise idea to flame.

[Guest Coffey]

Jarrett made Raven - a person the fans wanted to see win the title from day one - appear to be a jobber. He kicked out of Raven's finisher, which is the only DDT people sell these days. He kicked out of a move even Hulk Hogan would have sold like death: the double superkick conchairto. He made Raven look like complete shit, which is not something you're supposed to do to your top heel.

 

Face it. Jarrett cannot draw, does not know how to put anybody but himself over, and does not realize that new fans tuning into TNA would prefer to see Truth or Styles over himself. He has always been a midcard-level talent, is still a midcard-level talent, and always will be a midcard-level talent. The sooner he himself learns this, the better off he and TNA will be. Booking somebody that was made to look like a complete joke in the biggest company in the world (when they don't have a hardcore fanbase behind them) as your top talent is only acceptable if the company you are running is a small, independent promotion. TNA is trying to become a large competitor to World Wrestling Entertainment. This will not happen until they learn how to book a company again. The main event is "The Jeff Jarrett Show," and Jarrett does not have the aura of having been in the main event during the most profitable era of any large company to warrant such booking (as even Triple H was the top talent in the WWF during its record-breaking run in 2000, thus earning him the right to at least believe he is a draw).

Amen!

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

I tried to say the same stuff, but Laz is smarter. Good job.

[Guest Coffey]

You shouldn't put yourself down like that. You don't want your self esteem to drop any lower.

 

You tried to say that stuff for the same reason why I commended him for saying that stuff. That's because it's true. I can understand people wanting to play devil's advocate every now and then to get some conversation going, but when the arguement is so obviously lop-sided, it just seems like a waste of time and effort.

[Jacques 0]

Jacuqes, I have but one thing to say to you: woosh. The point of my little "essay," as you called it (but if it were an essay it would have gotten an F, since it's more a recap until the last few sentences), was to demonstrate how Jarrett made Raven - a person the fans wanted to see win the title from day one - appear to be a jobber. He kicked out of Raven's finisher, which is the only DDT people sell these days. He kicked out of a move even Hulk Hogan would have sold like death: the double superkick conchairto. He made Raven look like complete shit, which is not something you're supposed to do to your top heel.

I don't know if you read my earlier post or not but as I already said that was probably going to be Raven's last night in TNA. You wanted them to make an outgoing guy appear stronger than the champion? Jarrett was the only top face those days as both Raven and AJ were heels(I think). So obviously TNA wanted their top face and biggest draw to look strong against a departing guy. And when they saw the kind of reaction Raven got that night they extended his contract and turned him face.

 

I don't know why is everybody saying he got buried after that loss. Guys sorry to break it to you but that loss made him even bigger than before. He was booked in one of the best feud in TNA history (Raven-New Church, Raven-Gathering). After that he was again pushed in the main event with the other 5 guys before TNA smartly realised that they need to spread their main players in front of the free TV audience.

 

Jarrett cannot draw, does not know how to put anybody but himself over, and does not realize that new fans tuning into TNA would prefer to see Truth or Styles over himself.

No. AJ in the heavyweight division will kill the X-Division and casual fans remember Truth as K-Kwik "Jobber Extraordinaire". On the other hand casual fans recognize Jarrett and know that he has been a main-eventer/uppercarder in the big two (5 times WCW champion, 5 times intercontinental champion, multi times tag-team champion) so he brings instant credibility to the title.

 

I want you to point out why Jarrett is a draw and is good for TNA as its World champion. And be civil about it, because the TNA folder is under heavy watch by the mods now, so it would not be a wise idea to flame.

Just read my earlier posts.

[Guest Coffey]

I've watched wrestling for over seventeen years and I don't remember The Truth as K-Kwik, so I'm damn sure casual fans won't either. I'll remember him as Ron Killings. Obviously I remember the gimmick happening and him "gettin' rowdy" with the Road Dogg, but it only lasted for about a month. No one would remember that. I don't remember Raven as Johnny Polo....

 

Jarrett is not a draw. There's no reason to read your earlier posts because all you did was speculate and provide false numbers. Jarrett is not a draw. He's not a draw. Jeff Jarrett does not draw. There's no arguement here. There's nothing to discuss. Jeff "The King of the Mountain" Jarrett does not draw. He doesn't draw. Jeff don't draw. Jarrett doesn't draw. There's no other way to say it.

[JoeDirt 0]

Killings can't get over? Hmmm...

 

Then the Rock could never get over. Everyone remembers him as a jobber loser Rocky Maivia.

[Jacques 0]

Killings can't get over? Hmmm...

Umm... i never said that. Actually I am a big fan of Killings but I don't think people who watch TNA for the first time will be too impressed if they see K-Kwik as the world champion.

 

Obviously I remember the gimmick happening and him "gettin' rowdy" with the Road Dogg, but it only lasted for about a month.

No, it lasted close to an year.

[what 0]

No. AJ in the heavyweight division will kill the X-Division and casual fans remember Truth as K-Kwik "Jobber Extraordinaire". On the other hand casual fans recognize Jarrett and know that he has been a main-eventer/uppercarder in the big two (5 times WCW champion, 5 times intercontinental champion, multi times tag-team champion) so he brings instant credibility to the title.

I doubt casual fans will remember K-Kwik at all.

 

And AJ as heavyweight champ will kill the X-Division how? TNA still would have Daniels, Sabin, Skipper, Shane, Kazarian, Shelley and plenty of others for their X division.

 

And give it up, man. Jarrett's a midcarder. He's never drawn and never will draw.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

My last question, and honestly the only one that matters. Is Jeff drawing right now? If you say yes, you are apparently oblivious to reality. I'm not talking opinion, I'm talking fact. The shows aren't selling out the tiny little buildings they are in...Fact. If you say Jarrett is drawing right now, there is no reason to continue this discussion, because that will mean you are dillusional.

 

If Jarrett is not drawing right now, why not? Surely you know he's had enough chance in TNA to prove he's the man. Is someone holding him down? No he's been the focus of the show for two years, and he isn't drawing. Give someone, anyone else a shot.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

As I stated earlier, Raven was NOT on the way out. If he was going to be on the way out, he would not have stayed for a feud with Jarrett. Every one else they've had for one offs and the like were short term and meant for short term. Hell, they gave Shamrock the title and I'm pretty sure Raven is more stable unsigned than Shamrock.

 

No, it lasted close to an year.

 

More like 3 months. At most. Just enough to not catch on. And most people I know have completely forgotten K-Kwik, and the fact that he was once K-Krush in TNA.

 

No. AJ in the heavyweight division will kill the X-Division and casual fans remember Truth as K-Kwik "Jobber Extraordinaire". On the other hand casual fans recognize Jarrett and know that he has been a main-eventer/uppercarder in the big two (5 times WCW champion, 5 times intercontinental champion, multi times tag-team champion) so he brings instant credibility to the title.

 

First off, most marks don't know AJ from you. So it doesn't matter where they put him. Secondly, Jarrett's 5 title reigns came when WCW was dying. As in when the ratings were below 3.0. Which means most people won't remember it, and didn't care.

 

 

EDIT: Jacques, if you're going to sig someone give them credit. "some guy" and "some other guy" is extremely insulting. And WMD, I will credit you with my first sig, because I like you more at the moment.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Hey Swiggy, check out my new siggy.

[Guest Donners]

My last question, and honestly the only one that matters. Is Jeff drawing right now? If you say yes, you are apparently oblivious to reality. I'm not talking opinion, I'm talking fact. The shows aren't selling out the tiny little buildings they are in...Fact. If you say Jarrett is drawing right now, there is no reason to continue this discussion, because that will mean you are dillusional.

 

If Jarrett is not drawing right now, why not? Surely you know he's had enough chance in TNA to prove he's the man. Is someone holding him down? No he's been the focus of the show for two years, and he isn't drawing. Give someone, anyone else a shot.

And things changed dramatically with Styles and Killings as champs?

[Guest MikeSC]

Shockingly, he ended up going over in both.

Nope, AJ defeated him.

JJ is World Champ.

AJ is X Champ.

 

Mild difference.

He leached Owen's heat!!! You do remember that Owen was just Jarrett's sidekick? Right. He leached D'Lo's non-existant heat too? Wow amazing

.

A JJ supporter mentioning that anybody has "non-existant heat"?

 

He totally leached off Owen's heat --- and Debra's heat. Take away the fake tits and the fans wouldn't have even bothered to spend the time to shit on Jarrett.

AJ is in the X Division.

Harris is back in AMW.

Truth is a non-entity in the ME picture.

 

Yup, he's promoted talent.

And just when I thought your arguments can't get any more dumber, you come with this. Truth just main-evented and won against Jarrett a couple of weeks ago

And NOBODY gives Truth even the tiniest shot in hell of winning. And. lo and behold, who is wrestling tomorrow for a shot at the World Title? Huh, it's NOT Truth? SHOCKING!

 

Hell, Eugene had a main event on RAW. I don't refer to him as a ME'er. (I do refer to him as a better draw than JJ, though)

AMW main evented last week

They're still only a tag team.

and AJ is going to main event next week. Instead of every main players in one division, TNA has distributed them to solidify the whole card.

Funny, ALL of these guys worked with JJ and couldn't draw flies --- so WHICH guy gets to keep the World Title? One of the bunch who couldn't draw with JJ --- or JJ, who hasn't drawn with ANYBODY.

It is perfectly acceptable for the exposure they have. WWE shilled their Vengeance PPV on primetime on Spike and UPN. Yet the got 150,000(I think) buys. For the kind of publicity TNA gets, I think 20,000 is a good number.

20,000 is also a completely fictitious number, but don't let that slow you down.

I don't know if you read my earlier post or not but as I already said that was probably going to be Raven's last night in TNA. You wanted them to make an outgoing guy appear stronger than the champion? Jarrett was the only top face those days as both Raven and AJ were heels(I think). So obviously TNA wanted their top face and biggest draw to look strong against a departing guy. And when they saw the kind of reaction Raven got that night they extended his contract and turned him face.

Where are you pulling this "His contract was up" line from?

I don't know why is everybody saying he got buried after that loss. Guys sorry to break it to you but that loss made him even bigger than before.

Stuck in an endless feud with Mitchell and Shane Douglas is "bigger than before"?

He was booked in one of the best feud in TNA history (Raven-New Church, Raven-Gathering).

Well, if that is your idea of a great feud, it does explain the praise for Jeffy.

No. AJ in the heavyweight division will kill the X-Division and casual fans remember Truth as K-Kwik "Jobber Extraordinaire".

And that's worse than Jeff Jarrett, World Champ of Death? Or Jeff Jarrett, unable to get over in the WWE?

 

Who the heck remembers Ron Killings as K-Kwik any longer?

On the other hand casual fans recognize Jarrett and know that he has been a main-eventer/uppercarder in the big two (5 times WCW champion, 5 times intercontinental champion, multi times tag-team champion) so he brings instant credibility to the title.

Just to remind you, it's all worked.

No, it lasted close to an year.

More like 2-3 months.

Umm... i never said that. Actually I am a big fan of Killings but I don't think people who watch TNA for the first time will be too impressed if they see K-Kwik as the world champion.

"Aztec Warrior" as World Champ is better?

And things changed dramatically with Styles and Killings as champs?

How much time did they have to prove themselves?

 

JJ has had about 2 years.

-=Mike

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

And things changed dramatically with Styles and Killings as champs?

 

1) I didn't say they did, and that is not the point.

 

2) They haven't had near the chance JJ has had. Please admit that.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Jacuqes, I have but one thing to say to you: woosh. The point of my little "essay," as you called it (but if it were an essay it would have gotten an F, since it's more a recap until the last few sentences), was to demonstrate how Jarrett made Raven - a person the fans wanted to see win the title from day one - appear to be a jobber. He kicked out of Raven's finisher, which is the only DDT people sell these days. He kicked out of a move even Hulk Hogan would have sold like death: the double superkick conchairto. He made Raven look like complete shit, which is not something you're supposed to do to your top heel.

I don't know if you read my earlier post or not but as I already said that was probably going to be Raven's last night in TNA. You wanted them to make an outgoing guy appear stronger than the champion? Jarrett was the only top face those days as both Raven and AJ were heels(I think). So obviously TNA wanted their top face and biggest draw to look strong against a departing guy. And when they saw the kind of reaction Raven got that night they extended his contract and turned him face.

Raven was getting bigger face pops than Jarrett since the night he debuted, so that gets rid of that part of your argument (and it makes sense, since Raven was the top draw for ECW when it was growing from regional Pennsylvania promotion to America's #3 promotion). AJ turned face during the World title match vs. JJ in Feb. 2003, so that takes care of that. And hey, I don't care if TNA (read: Jerry Jarrett and Vince Russo) wanted to make their World champion (read: Jeff Jarrett, the boss's son and the booker's best friend) look strong. But there's a difference between looking strong and looking invulnerable. Taking the offense JJ did and bouncing back for a win, shaking all of the "punishment" he took like it was nothing? That made the fans turn on him, because it showed how selfish, idiotic, and uncaring of a worker he really is.

I don't know why is everybody saying he got buried after that loss. Guys sorry to break it to you but that loss made him even bigger than before. He was booked in one of the best feud in TNA history (Raven-New Church, Raven-Gathering). After that he was again pushed in the main event with the other 5 guys before TNA smartly realised that they need to spread their main players in front of the free TV audience.

So...the worst feud Raven has been in (Raven/Gathering, which was pretty much CM Punk being forced to just do punch/kick for 7 minutes a night with workers that aren't nearly as good as he is, and Julio botching spots left and right, all the while Raven was nowhere to be seen) is one of the best feuds in TNA history? Wow...you really don't think too highly of TNA at all, do you? I'll give you Raven/New Church, as that feud was strongly booked...until the Hair vs. Hair match. That match was terrible, and the subsequent feud of Raven/Redshirts was terrible. And I didn't know going from the focus of the show each week to being an afterthought was being pushed to the main event...

Jarrett cannot draw, does not know how to put anybody but himself over, and does not realize that new fans tuning into TNA would prefer to see Truth or Styles over himself.

No. AJ in the heavyweight division will kill the X-Division and casual fans remember Truth as K-Kwik "Jobber Extraordinaire". On the other hand casual fans recognize Jarrett and know that he has been a main-eventer/uppercarder in the big two (5 times WCW champion, 5 times intercontinental champion, multi times tag-team champion) so he brings instant credibility to the title.

AJ in the Heavyweight division didn't affect the X-Division one bit. The only thing hampering the X-Division is TNA's insistance upon putting workers in it that do NOT work X-Style (Michael Shane works WWE Style and always has, and Frankie Kazarian works SUCK Style). If Jarrett didn't personally dislike Jerry Lynn so much? I guarantee you that the focus of the X-Division would be Lynn and Sabin and all of the fun matches they would have together, since both can go spot-spot-spot-spot without slowing down, and all the while actually selling each spot and building it up. But no, they put untalented shits in there and expect people to react simply because No Name Indy Cruiser #47 did a moonsault.

And casual fans remember Truth as K-Kwik? First off, casual fans probably don't even remember K-Kwik. Fuck, I watch wrestling religiously (or at least used to until a few months ago), and I didn't know who K-Kwik was until his third month in the WWF. I think it's a safe bet to say that casual fans don't remember who the shit K-Kwik was, and it's not like it would matter anyway. They would see Ron Killings, The Truth, showing off why he should be a main event player in TNA (and why he was TNA's first superstar). He's incredibly charismatic, has good timing on his comebacks, has a diverse enough moveset while not abandoning a basic repertoire of signature maneuvers, and can sell very well.

Besides, if casual fans remember Truth as K-Kwik? Then they remember Jarrett as J-E-double F, J-A-double R-E-double T! Let's see...rapping black man that would do 450 Splashes and tagged with one half of the most popular tag team in the WWF of the 1990's, or a country singer that turned into a beater of women and lost his final WWF match to a woman in a "Good Housekeeping" match...I think they'd take the NWA (and I don't mean the wrestling company) over a good ol' boy. Remember, casual fans are also the "popular" people, and what's "popular" today, and has been for the last 8 or so years, is "urban culture."

I want you to point out why Jarrett is a draw and is good for TNA as its World champion. And be civil about it, because the TNA folder is under heavy watch by the mods now, so it would not be a wise idea to flame.

Just read my earlier posts.

I did. You were being a dumb prick. Now you're just being dumb.

[Guest Donners]

And things changed dramatically with Styles and Killings as champs?

 

1) I didn't say they did, and that is not the point.

 

2) They haven't had near the chance JJ has had. Please admit that.

I think it's precisely the point. I don't even believe in the concept that the champion = the main draw these days. If the show is built around the champ in match and promo time maybe. But I'd be as likely to watch TNA whether the champ is AJ or Jeff, because they get roughly equal time (hell, AJ's had much more in the last few months).

 

Hell, look at the ratings/buys for Raw with HHH and Goldberg as champ and compare them to Benoit's reign. Either the IWC is very, very out of touch with the majority of fans, or there are many other factors at play.

[JoeDirt 0]

Two points:

 

1) I believe the whole Raven's contract thing came from the fact that Jarrett wasn't going to job the title to Raven, and there was heat between the two for that, so Raven threatened to leave. Scott Levy is NOT a dumb person - he knew that this was the time to put him over for the title, but Jarrett put the kabosh on that.

 

2) AJ Styles, IIRC, volunteered to go back to the X-Division. Not that I blame him, though, as he can have great matches with the guys there and he wasn't going to get a push over Jarrett again anyways.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

But I'd be as likely to watch TNA whether the champ is AJ or Jeff, because they get roughly equal time

 

 

Noone gets the time or importance put into him that Jeff does. Period. It's not even close.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I agree that JJ gets over on just about everybody......but honestly AJ does get just as much airtime.....and if he doesn't....he's a close second.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

If you count the minutes of airtime, maybe..but I still doubt it. Nobody is treated with the importance that JJ is. AJ isn't injected into every fued, etc.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

If you count the minutes of airtime, maybe..but I still doubt it. Nobody is treated with the importance that JJ is. AJ isn't injected into every fued, etc.

It depends on the week. AJ has been promanently featured for sometime now.......Jarrett actually makes himself look worse by being in all the bush league stuff.......at least AJ always seems to be the "important" part of the show. Hell, they have done more with AJ since he won the X-Division title back as opposed to Jarrett seemingly floating around since winning the NWA title again.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Maybe I've grown prejudice and need to clear the slate. I only became a JJ hater a few weeks ago, maybe I overreacted

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Maybe I've grown prejudice and need to clear the slate. I only became a JJ hater a few weeks ago, maybe I overreacted

Well, I am not saying that you are overreacting....I am just saying that they are actually doing the right thing with AJ.....and the wrong thing with JJ. Because Jarrett definately gets more facetime than ANYONE(except AJ, who either is on TV more, or just a little less than AJ).......trust me....JJ buries EVERYONE when it comes to that....just not AJ.

[JoeDirt 0]

Jarrett makes me yawn.

 

But it's clear that he's running the show in TNA and wants to be the champ for now. I guess he thinks he's clearly the top draw they have.

 

Oh well.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

Jarrett and AJ get fairly equal time, it's just AJ's in the ring for a match, and Jarrett's is in the ring for an EL-KABONG~!

Actually, that's just on IMPACT, but on the PPV's they're pretty equal.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

That's it. I'm wiping the slate clean. I want so much to enjoy this product that I'm willing to drop the resentment I've gained over the last couple of weeks. JJ is cool with me right now. If he entertains me this week, hey, that's great. No preconceived notions here.