The OAO Raw Thread - 7/26/04 - 60 Minute Iron Man

[Promoter 0]

Austin was the focus of the shows, though.  He was an integral part to the storylines and show.  If Benoit missed a Raw or two, would it even matter?

Actually wasn't there a show where he did go missing?

 

You are right Austin was the focus and I see the point you're making, but maybe I have just inclined to believe the belt is really Triple H's belt anyways and for him to even hold it this long is surprising. Some reason he did not get the Goldberg and HBK treatment of one month champ. Personally, I think Trips is just using Benoit to give his title increased credibility while having the wwe title shot to hell on smackdown. Notice if Orton wins the strap where everything leads to? He takes a long sabbatical from the championship where a wrestling machine like Benoit adds prestige and then he puts over someone in his faction which leads to a title match with Triple H perhaps as a face. This is what I really see is going on here and that is why this whole thing doesn't irk me that much. The good out of this for Benoit is he won at the 20th anniversary of WrestleMania in the main event. He defended the title against HBK(public enemy #1) and HHH in Edmonton and he reigned until the wwe felt he could do the miracle of making Orton look like a real champ at SummerSlam. There's the storyboard right there. The story with Triple H is he is messing up left and right in his quest to regain the title, while the cocky youngster Orton wins the title right from under him. I guess we can say Benoit is there to add credibility to the strap on the face side of things.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah because Benoit had already, you know, taken care of business. Yeah let's get

a motorcade and follow him back to the lockerroom or have a big WM-type celebration (sans Eddie) again!

 

How, exactly, is this relevant to my point of Eugene/HHH upstaging Benoits win?

 

 

When'd that happen, you mean when Kane got all pissy after he lost to Benoit, chokeslammed him, was about to choke Lita out and Benoit comes back and nails him with the belt? Yeah what a non-factor.

 

Again, relevancy? Kane spent more time focusing on Lita than on the World Champ. The World Champ (and title) should be priority #1. As such, it makes the champ -in this case Benoit- important. This goes back to the Ironman point. When the champ is not the primary focus, it makes him _not_ important. What's the point of being the champ if you are not important? What does that belt mean? That "he's the best"? But if "being the best" is not presented as important, then what good is it? "If a tree falls..."

 

And you still post here...........

 

And here you are.

 

And what would that be? That Benoit can't beat HHH? We've seen it what, three times now? And HHH has beaten Benoit exactly HOW many times?

 

No Mercy 00 comes to mind. Around the time Benoit debuted in the WWF HHH beat him as well. I recall one more time, but nothing specific jumps out. So that'd be 3. And we've seen him beat HHH -in singles- twice now. Both with the help of Eugene. He also beat HHH in 3 ways, which do not have the same impact as singles. And, the times when HHH beat Benoit, Benoit went significantly down the card. What happens when Benoit beats HHH?

 

Anyways, this is all irrelevant to my actual point (strike 3 - you aren't very good at this.) The point was - "what if Evolution didn't get involved" is the question. Title matches of a certain magnitude are supposed to make you wonder "Could the challenger -on his best day- beat the Champ on his?". The ironman match should have established that, but it didn't.

 

Hey Ric Flair never beat Lex Luger without heel cheating either, does the question still linger 16 years later?

 

Hogan beat Andre straight-up. Hart beat Austin straight-up. Warrior beat Hogan straight up. Matches that leave an impression -matches that have weight- tend to be clear of any lingering questions.

 

And the world title match with Benoit and Orton at Summerslam.

 

I didn't hear RAW go off the air with Ross yelling "BENOIT! ORTON! WORLD TITLE! SUMMERSLAM!", no it was more like "THE GAME HAS GOTTEN WHAT HE DESERVES AND IT'S THANKS TO EUGENE!". Benoit/Orton wasn't the focus _at all_.

 

Let's see, Benoit glared at the defeated HHH, nodded at Eugene, and left. Yeah looked like a chump to me.

 

Did I say "chump"? I said "insignificant". Benoit looking like a chump would imply direct harm - say, having him walk HHHs dog. Insignificant is more indirect harm where inaction is incredibly harmful to his role as champion.

 

And how exactly was THE HHH getting his "glory-time", lying in defeat after being beaten down by Eugene, looking like he was swallowing cum in the process? Some glory...........

 

He was the focus. The attention was on him. His loss was more important than Benoits win.

 

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, did your parents use you as a sex sandwich as a child as well? That might explain the frustration.

 

No, the "frustration" comes from dumb fucks who are happy that "benoit has the title" even if "the title" hasn't done anything for him except make him look silly carrying it with that grin on his face and work longer matches on house shows. How people see this lacklustre and unremarkable title reign as being good is mindblowing. Also, posters who completely miss the point also are very annoying (mmm redundant). I don't want to point out any posters around here who -in the span of one post- was able to air-ball 4 times, but the humour of it goes away pretty quickly.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think HHH "let" Benoit hold the title for so long because Benoit is a non-threat. Benoit can be controlled. It's not like a Guerrero, or Cena, or Austin-thing where it blows-up and could potentially get "big". Benoit-as-champ is "safe". HHH is the all-star quarterback, the title is the head cheerleader, and Benoit is the captain of the chessclub. HHH needs someone to take the title to the dance while he goes away without having any "funny business" crop-up; so Benoit shows up in his striped tux and $2 corsage thinking that he's finally getting his shot.

[Guest GreatOne]

How, exactly, is this relevant to my point of Eugene/HHH upstaging Benoits win?

 

Let's see, two weeks ago RAW ends with an Evolution 4-on-1 beatdown of Eugene. what do you think? What, a Eugene post-match attack to get back his heat and set up the match? Or the typical 3 on 1 beatdown happens after the match?

 

Kane spent more time focusing on Lita than on the World Champ. The World Champ (and title) should be priority #1

 

And guess what, he ALREADY LOST.

 

And you still post here...........

 

And here you are.

 

and I'm not the one crying like a little bitch here either. Can I get you a tampon?

 

Hogan beat Andre straight-up. Hart beat Austin straight-up. Warrior beat Hogan straight up. Matches that leave an impression -matches that have weight- tend to be clear of any lingering questions.

 

And we're talking Wrestlemania matches in all three, as opposed to RAW.

 

Insignificant is more indirect harm where inaction is incredibly harmful to his role as champion.

 

And what 'inaction' would that be?

 

He was the focus. The attention was on him. His loss was more important than Benoits win

 

Actually if you wanna go there it was Eugene jumping up and down and mocking him and HHH looking like a total bitch. But hey as long as you're on TV!

 

No, the "frustration" comes from dumb fucks who are happy that "benoit has the title" even if "the title" hasn't done anything for him except make him look silly carrying it with that grin on his face and work longer matches on house shows

 

Yeah I know, how dare a World Champion in WWE actually, gasp, wrestle? perish the thought!

 

Also, posters who completely miss the point also are very annoying (mmm redundant). I don't want to point out any posters around here who -in the span of one post- was able to air-ball 4 times, but the humour of it goes away pretty quickly.

 

Gee, you know, you're right but I didn't find anything humourous about your posts. When it comes to endless and pointless bitching and whining, it usually doesn't you know?

 

I think HHH "let" Benoit hold the title for so long because Benoit is a non-threat. Benoit can be controlled. It's not like a Guerrero, or Cena, or Austin-thing where it blows-up and could potentially get "big". Benoit-as-champ is "safe". HHH is the all-star quarterback, the title is the head cheerleader, and Benoit is the captain of the chessclub. HHH needs someone to take the title to the dance while he goes away without having any "funny business" crop-up; so Benoit shows up in his striped tux and $2 corsage thinking that he's finally getting his shot.

 

BTW are you supposed to be posing as a HHH or a Benoit fanboy (I'd say Democrat with all your errant bitching but I'll save it for CE) here? Can't be Benoit with all the shots you've taken at him, can't be HHH with all your whiny complaints of him getting TV time.

[iggymcfly 0]

Hogan beat Andre straight-up. Hart beat Austin straight-up. Warrior beat Hogan straight up. Matches that leave an impression -matches that have weight- tend to be clear of any lingering questions.

 

And we're talking Wrestlemania matches in all three, as opposed to RAW.

 

That's a good point, in totally disproving what RRR was saying. If you compare it to the Austin/Hart feud, they both have a decisive winner at WM. Benoit made HHH submit clean in the middle of the ring (even if HBK was involved in the match), and Hart made Austin submit clean in the middle of the ring (even if Austin did pass out from the pain instead of tapping).

 

They continued feuding after the Mania match, and Austin being better on the mic got more time to speak, even if Bret was still regarded as the better wrestler. The only real difference was that since Austin was the less established star at the time, he actually got a victory as the feud progressed (by DQ at Revenge of the Taker), and he ended up getting credit for taking Bret out. Meanwhile, since Benoit is less established in this feud, Trips has been doing everything he can to put Benoit over, even if it means that he doesn't get a token victory to protect his heat.

 

As for RRR, I've got to give out some props for the analogy of Chris Benoit as the captain of the chessclub; I can totally see that. Besides, who's to say that being the god of the IWC is less dorky than the captain of the chessclub anyway. And, for whether he's a HHH or Benoit fanboy, the answer is obvious. Neither one. He's a HHHater, pure and simple.

[Guest Loss]

When Benoit loses the title, do you still expect him to be treated like a top guy? Or do you expect him to follow the route of Jericho? The answer to that question should tell you everything you need to know.

He'll still be in the main event picture after he loses to Orton or whoever else. You don't give a guy a huge push and a strong world title reign to not elevate him to the Main Event picture.

Chris Jericho.

[deancoles 0]

When Benoit loses the title, do you still expect him to be treated like a top guy? Or do you expect him to follow the route of Jericho? The answer to that question should tell you everything you need to know.

He'll still be in the main event picture after he loses to Orton or whoever else. You don't give a guy a huge push and a strong world title reign to not elevate him to the Main Event picture.

Chris Jericho.

In 99 DDP had the same treatment after his run bombed.

[Guest Brian]

To summarize what Rudo's saying, Benoit getting second billing to Triple H will not make him a champ. The title has gotten Benoit nowhere in that regard, and all he's doing is basically going through the motions. It hasn't made him any more popular, or more credible.

 

The second point is that Benoit has yet to conclusively beat HHH. One on one, he hasn't proven himself yet. It doesn't matter when the matches take place, he just need to prove that he is at that level when it comes to mano a mano, just the two of them. The point is, if they have one singles battle and Triple H wins it, no questions presented or asked afterwards, he's going to come out looking like the champ and Benoit's going to go back (did he ever leave) and get second billing. That's the case.

 

And third, simply categorizing someone as a fanboy or hater is a defense mechanism to discredit one and another's arguments.

[what 0]

I think HHH "let" Benoit hold the title for so long because Benoit is a non-threat. Benoit can be controlled. It's not like a Guerrero, or Cena, or Austin-thing where it blows-up and could potentially get "big". Benoit-as-champ is "safe". HHH is the all-star quarterback, the title is the head cheerleader, and Benoit is the captain of the chessclub. HHH needs someone to take the title to the dance while he goes away without having any "funny business" crop-up; so Benoit shows up in his striped tux and $2 corsage thinking that he's finally getting his shot.

It sounds like you're making excuses for Benoit ahead of time. So after his reign is over, you can say "oh it wasn't Benoit's fault he was a weak champion, it was Triple H's!" even though Triple H lost to Benoit in 4 matches and tapped out three times to him.

[what 0]

When Benoit loses the title, do you still expect him to be treated like a top guy? Or do you expect him to follow the route of Jericho? The answer to that question should tell you everything you need to know.

He'll still be in the main event picture after he loses to Orton or whoever else. You don't give a guy a huge push and a strong world title reign to not elevate him to the Main Event picture.

Chris Jericho.

Read what I said. Strong world title reign. Jericho's reign was among the weakest I've ever seen.

[Dark Age 0]

Cos Benoit's has been SO strong.

[DerangedHermit 0]

Cos Benoit's has been SO strong.

Did Benoit pick up Stephanie's dog's shit?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

When Benoit loses the title, do you still expect him to be treated like a top guy? Or do you expect him to follow the route of Jericho? The answer to that question should tell you everything you need to know.

He'll still be in the main event picture after he loses to Orton or whoever else. You don't give a guy a huge push and a strong world title reign to not elevate him to the Main Event picture.

Chris Jericho.

Read what I said. Strong world title reign. Jericho's reign was among the weakest I've ever seen.

Up until the build up to WrestleMania X8 I'd say it was just fine. His program with The Rock was pretty good and he did beat two big names in one night to win it. It wasn't until he was basically booked as a side note in his own feud that I'd say it was terribly weak and that wasn't his fault. He tried his best to make that mess entertaining.

[what 0]

It hasn't made him any more popular, or more credible.

 

Were you expecting him to explode like Stone Cold Steve Austin ? And the title has easily given him credibility. He squashed Kane and has beaten HHH time and again.

 

The second point is that Benoit has yet to conclusively beat HHH. One on one, he hasn't proven himself yet. It doesn't matter when the matches take place, he just need to prove that he is at that level when it comes to mano a mano, just the two of them.

 

The booking has made HHH and Benoit look like peers which is good enough to make Benoit a permanent main eventer, in my opinion. If Benoit is made a midcarder again on Raw after he loses to Orton (which I suspect will happen), who will take over as top face on Raw? Edge is not over. Jericho is buried. Eugene is a 'tard.

 

The point is, if they have one singles battle and Triple H wins it, no questions presented or asked afterwards, he's going to come out looking like the champ and Benoit's going to go back (did he ever leave) and get second billing. That's the case.

 

The Benoit/HHH feud is over. Benoit beat HHH time after time. Benoit won the feud.

[what 0]

Cos Benoit's has been SO strong.

It really has. He's beaten the top heels on Raw and has had the title for 5 months. It's definitely been a strong title reign.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I can't believe people are saying Benoit's title reign was weak. Did I used to be like this?

 

Who else has beaten HHH this many times in a feud? Benoit is doing just fine and he's held the title about 4 months now...5 or 6 when he probably loses it. That's a good run especially when you look at who all he's beaten during it.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

At WrestleMania XX, Chris Benoit made HHH tap out to become the World Champion. Since then he has beaten HHH multiple times, as many have pointed out.

 

So, between the night after RAW when Benoit came out with the title (only after HHH was done cutting a promo, I might add) and now, what has changed? What evolution of his character has occurred? What evolution of HHH's character has occurred? What has happened that has brought justification to the repeated matchups between the two?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I think a lot of this falls on Benoit. I know we don't want to see that, but like someone has said Benoit is going through the motions.

 

He could be cutting more promos on HHH about how he's beaten him more than once and made him tap more than once (especially since the fans love chanting "you tapped out". It would be a great crowd pleaser), but we're not getting the fire from Benoit that should be coming out of these wins. Instead he wins and then goes through the motions to set up his next match.

 

Is that because the WWE bookers aren't giving him promo time because they don't have faith in his promo skills or is it because Benoit doesn't have faith in his promo skills? Either way it's up to Benoit to bust out that great promo and show that he can do it.

 

Benoit's run has provided some great matches and will be looked back upon as a strong in ring success, but what will we take from it other than that? Will this lead to a second title run for Benoit or is this it?

 

What it boils down to is does Benoit have the promo skills to take his run to the next level? If not then maybe it is time for someone else as champ.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Benoit can bring the believeability and intensity to his promo's enough to get the crowd into his character, just look at the way he got MSG riled up by shouting "I believe in me".

 

Why isn't he cutting more promo's like that? I have no idea.

 

 

I have no idea where that shirt came from or what it is doing in this thread. Like I said, I have no idea why Benoit isn't getting more promo time.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

That's one terrible shirt...I hope that's a joke shirt. I couldn't see HHH wearing that.

[King Cucaracha 0]

RRR...do you think the average fan even thinks about half the stuff you're talking about? I've never heard a non smark fan say 'Benoit sucks because he's never beaten Triple H in a one-one one match without any form of interference'.

 

It's just another example of reading too much into everything, just because Benoit is the one involved.

 

I had a full rant planned because this constant 'nothing is ever good enough' philosophy and the same old 'if you're satisfied by Benoit's reign then you're obviously too easily pleased' counter arguement in EVERY Raw thread are quite frankly getting on my tits, but it's not worth it seems because none of the pro-Benoit crew will ever be satisifed. Fact is though, if it were someone over than Benoit in this position, the complaints would be a fraction of what they are now, simply because all the 'smarks' complaining are total marks for Benoit.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Well then the marks for whoever it was in place of Benoit would complain or we would complain because it was someone none of us liked as champ.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Well then the marks for whoever it was in place of Benoit would complain or we would complain because it was someone none of us liked as champ.

Eh. Probably wouldn't be as common though as the Benoit one.

 

Then again, that'll rub off on whoever beats him. Which'll probably mean everyone calling Orton 'Triple H Junior' by the time Summerslam is over.

 

 

 

Jeez, was I always this bitter?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Around here people either complain or are bitter about the complaining...or they just stay out of the WWE Folder and remain sane.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

That's one terrible shirt...I hope that's a joke shirt. I couldn't see HHH wearing that.

The shirt wasn't placed there for fashion discussion, but yeah, it is a really ugly shirt.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Yeah I didn't want to open that can of worms so I just commented on the shirt.

[what 0]

I have no idea where that shirt came from or what it is doing in this thread. Like I said, I have no idea why Benoit isn't getting more promo time.

It's because he's not good on the mic. He's among the worst mic performers in the WWE.

[Guest Brian]

You're missing the point. If Triple H gets that conclusive win, Benoit will be back to square one. It's not that he's not compiling the wins. It's what they're headed to. Are they building to a big, final victory, or is Benoit just going to lose and up with nothing for it.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love the fact he's holding the title. But you haver to think about where they're heading with these things, and it's never as simple as holding the title is going to make you a main eventer e.g. Jericho or Angle. All ther wins and losses have a context in a larger picture, and that will ultimately be where Benoit ends up. And if Triple H can conclusively prove that he is better in a singles match, it will be that kind of situation.

[Guest GreatOne]

You can make the argument that Benoit lacks on the mic and in his total persona, that wouldn't be the fault of the booking though. Austin referred to that in his book a couple of times and how it's all that's holding him back. However, a few more 'Hey I beat you, now stop whining' or 'Whose fault is it that you lost to me, not Eugene, Bischoff, or Evolution, YOURS!' promos and he's back on track. The latter is something I've been saying and would make a killer promo.

 

--HHH claims that Michaels and Benoit's egos will be all the "edge" he needs, bam Benoit runs thorugh both to win the world title.

 

--HHH tricks a hapless retard into his plan. It backfires BIGTIME.

 

--HHH and Evolution beat the hell out of Eugene, and as Tom Araya would say, PAYBACK'S A BITCH, MOTHER---FUCKER!!!!!!!!

 

So who's fault is it that HHH loses? Besides anyone else remember HHH tapping twice in five minutes? Yeah Benoit can't beat HHH alright.

 

I know that he's somewhat forgotten here, but like Austin asked in his book, where would certain people be in WWE today if they're just sitting around for writers to give them ideas? Gee, anyone think The Ringmaster, Rocky Maivia, and Preppy Hunter Hearst Helmsley would ever have become 'the holy trinity' if they kept going as their selves of the time?

[Guest GreatOne]

BTW does it occur to all the haters that Rock never got that CLEAN DECISIVE ONE ON ONE win over HHH? (Not counting the Rocky Maivia upset era) I think he survived quite nicely............