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[Guest Anglesault]

If he stays in Arizona, I really want to see just how miserable he makes the whole clubhouse. At this point, I can see him making it completely unbearable.

 

I wonder if it's totally below Johnson to start coming up with injuries for the rest of his contract.

 

Then I say they match him and send his ass down to the minors where he can sit till he rots.

Can he be sent down?

 

And I don't think they'll trade with the Yankees for what they're offering, especially after they were kind of burned by the Schilling deal in Boston.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

If he stays in Arizona, I really want to see just how miserable he makes the whole clubhouse. At this point, I can see him making it completely unbearable.

 

I wonder if it's totally below Johnson to start coming up with injuries for the rest of his contract.

 

Then I say they match him and send his ass down to the minors where he can sit till he rots.

Can he be sent down?

No. If they tried sending him down then they would basically being designating him for assignment. Which means they have 10 days to trade him to a team that makes a waiver claim or give him his outright release.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

It looks as though the A's have no interest in getting into the post season.  They need an extra bat.

Even though the offense as a whole is average, second base is the only position where they have a glaring need for a bat as every other position they've had solid production. As always though funds is an issue and the A's already added some payroll with the Dotel trade and I don't know if ownership will be willing to add more.

 

Besides the A's are plenty good enough to win the division with the team they have...if they could finally start winning on the road.

I don't consider you a true A's fan until you take down your cocksucking avatar and member title in regards to Zito. He's going to rebound just fucking fine, so take it down now before you raise my ire any more.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The Mariners lost to a team with 98 wins. How is that an example of ANYTHING?

 

Where the fuck does that come from? I'm sorry if I didn't cowtow to you on the Pedro argument but get over it!

 

Anyway the last thing they were supposed to do was squeak by in the West and get bitchslapped out of the playoffs by a team that came out of nowhere in Baltimore. That might have been more to their lackluster pen but Johnson and Moyer getting lit up the first two games and scoring a grand total of eight or nine runs the whole series didn't help either. Plus you had Randy Johnson beginning to mope about a new contract as well. It's called not being ready to play, you might not call it chemistry--then again you're also the one saying Enrique Wilson is just as good as Derek Jeter in the 9th inning with 2 on and 2 out down by two--but it's something. Point is you have to have more than an 'all-star' team. It might be the manager, it might be something else, but it's there. Call it what you want.

 

I guess the '99 Dodgers would be a more clear example eh?

You do need more than an All-Star team. But that's not an issue of team chemestry. That's an issue of having to field a player at every position. The '97 Mariners had great players. Johnson, Griffey, and Rodriguez at least are going to the Hall. But they also had Joey Cora, left field by committee, and a complete lack of pitching outside of their three best starters and Bobby Ayala. That's not a problem of team chemestry, that's a problem of talent.

 

And that Wilson/Jeter comment is asinine. When have I EVER said anything remotely resembling that comment? I do not believe in clutch hitting ability. That said, Jeter is better than Wilson in that situation. Not because Jeter hits in the clutch, but because Jeter is just a better hitter.

 

And no, the '99 Dodgers are not a better example. Their hitting was near the bottom of the league and their starters were weak outside of Brown and Valdes.

 

Seriously dude, a debate consists of intelligent points and counter-points. You grasp for straws at everything you argue, and you easily venture off topic. Phrase your arguments better.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

If he stays in Arizona, I really want to see just how miserable he makes the whole clubhouse. At this point, I can see him making it completely unbearable.

 

I wonder if it's totally below Johnson to start coming up with injuries for the rest of his contract.

 

Then I say they match him and send his ass down to the minors where he can sit till he rots.

Can he be sent down?

No. If they tried sending him down then they would basically being designating him for assignment. Which means they have 10 days to trade him to a team that makes a waiver claim or give him his outright release.

To clarify, if he were to clear waivers, they could send him to the minors if they wished. But since Johnson's situation doesn't appear to effect his performance, there's no reason to do it.

[Guest tangerine]

Johnson isn't going to fake a injury or something, he'll just go out there and throw 8-12 K's and hope his team doesn't blow it.

 

He's basically there to pad his stats at this point.

[Guest GreatOne]

Seriously dude, a debate consists of intelligent points and counter-points. You grasp for straws at everything you argue, and you easily venture off topic. Phrase your arguments better.

Grasping at straws eh? Frequently straying from the topic? Like:

 

Pedro: Maybe Grady DID make the wrong move, my points were 1)Pedro clearly proved that he ISN'T a great pitcher (great pitchers don't lose to the Orioles twice and squeeze by the Mariners in 2004) and 2)The original topic which was 'Fire Terry Francona', which I replied with 'Yeah it's always someone else's fault for underachieving players BUT the players', then you went off on the ALCS. Now who strayed off the topic again?

 

All-Stars: "All-Star team" is a figure of speech, even the Yankees are finding out that you can't literally have an All-Star team. I figured a baseball columnist--even if it is just an anonymous website--would know that. But a team with three HOFers, an argument can be made for four, and a few other good players really is built for more than just a token playoff appearance. A team that has about six or seven all-stars should do more than go a pathetic 76-86. The 2002 Yankees were destined for more (before everyone found out that Raul Mondesi was indeed garbage), I know 'Sault'll agree there. BTW nowhere did I argue FOR chemistry, I said it's something, whatever you wanna call it. Now who's grasping for straws again?

 

Is that good enough for you? Fuck it, it doesn't even matter.

[Bored 0]

1)Pedro clearly proved that he ISN'T a great pitcher (great pitchers don't lose to the Orioles twice and squeeze by the Mariners in 2004)

Yup no great pitcher has ever lost to a bad team ever. Uh huh. Sure. You bet.

 

Curt Schilling lost to the Orioles tonight. Man he fucking sucks.

[Guest GreatOne]

1)Pedro clearly proved that he ISN'T a great pitcher (great pitchers don't lose to the Orioles twice and squeeze by the Mariners in 2004)

Yup no great pitcher has ever lost to a bad team ever. Uh huh. Sure. You bet.

 

Curt Schilling lost to the Orioles tonight. Man he fucking sucks.

When those losses are contributing to your team that was supposed to "destroy the myth" this year being a mile back in the AL East (the Yanks pitching, if you can call it that, is keeping the Red Sox alive) and on the brink of missing the playoffs ENTIRELY, yeah.

 

Actually though Schilling has proved himself (I think he had something to do with that World Series banner down at the BOB), Pedro won one big game nearly five years ago, WHOOPEE!!!!!!!!!

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Supposedly theres a "surprise" team that just became interested in Hairston/Roberts, but I really don't believe it. In fact, I doubt, despite the clear need to move one of them, that either will be traded. The Orioles do not need to keep 2 quality 2B on their roster.

 

Oakland was supposedly interested, but Orioles management screwed that up huge by asking for Harden in return for Hairston/Roberts and Julio. Supposedly thats where the whole "Zito for Hairston/Roberts and Julio" rumor got started, but thats not happening either.

 

The only other stange thing I've heard is that the Cubs were interested in Melvin Mora, but I don't think he's available.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Several Sources say the Pirates are asking the Twins for either Micheal Cuddyer or Jason Kubel. Kubel is not available, and Cuddyer will either be the Twins 2nd or 3rd basemen next year, he's also too valuable this year.

 

Benson's not going to Minnesota. Twins won't mortage the future for a pitcher they won't re-sign.

[Guest Anglesault]

1)Pedro clearly proved that he ISN'T a great pitcher (great pitchers don't lose to the Orioles twice and squeeze by the Mariners in 2004)

Yup no great pitcher has ever lost to a bad team ever. Uh huh. Sure. You bet.

 

Curt Schilling lost to the Orioles tonight. Man he fucking sucks.

When those losses are contributing to your team that was supposed to "destroy the myth" this year being a mile back in the AL East (the Yanks pitching, if you can call it that, is keeping the Red Sox alive) and on the brink of missing the playoffs ENTIRELY, yeah.

Good to know.

 

Sox fans, that's 5,000 strikeouts down the shitter for you guys. And you thought those two were good pitchers! So easily fooled by the pretty numbers!

 

Meanwhile, I'll be deleting my Whitey Ford Yankeeography off my Tivo. I always thought he was somewhat decent, but he blew it twice against the Koufax shmuck in 63.

 

What a hack.

[Guest GreatOne]

1)Pedro clearly proved that he ISN'T a great pitcher (great pitchers don't lose to the Orioles twice and squeeze by the Mariners in 2004)

Yup no great pitcher has ever lost to a bad team ever. Uh huh. Sure. You bet.

 

Curt Schilling lost to the Orioles tonight. Man he fucking sucks.

When those losses are contributing to your team that was supposed to "destroy the myth" this year being a mile back in the AL East (the Yanks pitching, if you can call it that, is keeping the Red Sox alive) and on the brink of missing the playoffs ENTIRELY, yeah.

Good to know.

 

Sox fans, that's 5,000 strikeouts down the shitter for you guys. And you thought those two were good pitchers! So easily fooled by the pretty numbers!

 

Meanwhile, I'll be deleting my Whitey Ford Yankeeography off my Tivo. I always thought he was somewhat decent, but he blew it twice against the Koufax shmuck in 63.

 

What a hack.

'Sault whose your team again? BTW repost and quote the last line about Schilling where I mentioned that World Series that Schilling had SOMETHING to do with.

 

So everyone on this folder's turned into a bunch of closet Red Sox fanboys or what?

[Guest Anglesault]

1)Pedro clearly proved that he ISN'T a great pitcher (great pitchers don't lose to the Orioles twice and squeeze by the Mariners in 2004)

Yup no great pitcher has ever lost to a bad team ever. Uh huh. Sure. You bet.

 

Curt Schilling lost to the Orioles tonight. Man he fucking sucks.

When those losses are contributing to your team that was supposed to "destroy the myth" this year being a mile back in the AL East (the Yanks pitching, if you can call it that, is keeping the Red Sox alive) and on the brink of missing the playoffs ENTIRELY, yeah.

Good to know.

 

Sox fans, that's 5,000 strikeouts down the shitter for you guys. And you thought those two were good pitchers! So easily fooled by the pretty numbers!

 

Meanwhile, I'll be deleting my Whitey Ford Yankeeography off my Tivo. I always thought he was somewhat decent, but he blew it twice against the Koufax shmuck in 63.

 

What a hack.

'Sault whose your team again?

I'm a Yankee fan.

 

I'm not a Yankee fan who goes "OMG PEDRO IS TEH SUXORS BECAUSE HE DIDN'T GO EIGHT INNINGS IN GAME 7!"

[strummer 0]

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews.../9267599.htm?1c

 

 

Marlins might be in the mix to make it a 3 way trade, Yanks, Fish and D-Backs.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

*looks at the mess left here and in other threads while he was away*

 

....

 

*goes to talk baseball at a different forum instead*

[Guest GreatOne]

1)Pedro clearly proved that he ISN'T a great pitcher (great pitchers don't lose to the Orioles twice and squeeze by the Mariners in 2004)

Yup no great pitcher has ever lost to a bad team ever. Uh huh. Sure. You bet.

 

Curt Schilling lost to the Orioles tonight. Man he fucking sucks.

When those losses are contributing to your team that was supposed to "destroy the myth" this year being a mile back in the AL East (the Yanks pitching, if you can call it that, is keeping the Red Sox alive) and on the brink of missing the playoffs ENTIRELY, yeah.

Good to know.

 

Sox fans, that's 5,000 strikeouts down the shitter for you guys. And you thought those two were good pitchers! So easily fooled by the pretty numbers!

 

Meanwhile, I'll be deleting my Whitey Ford Yankeeography off my Tivo. I always thought he was somewhat decent, but he blew it twice against the Koufax shmuck in 63.

 

What a hack.

'Sault whose your team again?

I'm a Yankee fan.

 

I'm not a Yankee fan who goes "OMG PEDRO IS TEH SUXORS BECAUSE HE DIDN'T GO EIGHT INNINGS IN GAME 7!"

Hey what am I saying that isn't true?

 

Pedro wants to be recognized as one of the all-time greatest, well getting through eight innings in a playoff game (I know it's not like it's ever been done before, not by Josh Beckett or anything) would help his rep.

 

Staying away from the occasional eight-run inning against a team with offensive problems (or giving up Rich Aurilia's first AL home run, when he went the first seven weeks without one) would also help. I wouldn't harp on it actually, if it hadn't happened more than once.

 

My god, what the hell kind of fan am I? I actually demand GREATNESS from those who want to be considered as such. There must be something wrong here! (actually I don't really because I could care less about Pedro or the Sox for that matter, but as a BASEBALL fan yes in this case)

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Can we have this idiot banned? He seems hellbent on bringing up Pedro's performance in Game 7 last year every place possible. Just because no one else thinks your idiotic opinions are true doesn't make them "closet Red Sox fans." It's pretty bad when you can't even get AS to side with you on an anti-Boston argument. Jackass.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

1)Pedro clearly proved that he ISN'T a great pitcher (great pitchers don't lose to the Orioles twice and squeeze by the Mariners in 2004)

Yup no great pitcher has ever lost to a bad team ever. Uh huh. Sure. You bet.

 

Curt Schilling lost to the Orioles tonight. Man he fucking sucks.

Will you please change your avatar and member title...for my sanity!

[Bruiser Chong 0]

No need to do so until the question's given a solution. None thus far. And considering how he's continued to pitch, it could be a while until we get one.

[Dogbert 0]

The only thing we all know for sure is that there will be a Montreal salary dump.

 

Who do you think gets Cabrera? My money's on San Fran.

[Guest Anglesault]

1)Pedro clearly proved that he ISN'T a great pitcher (great pitchers don't lose to the Orioles twice and squeeze by the Mariners in 2004)

Yup no great pitcher has ever lost to a bad team ever. Uh huh. Sure. You bet.

 

Curt Schilling lost to the Orioles tonight. Man he fucking sucks.

When those losses are contributing to your team that was supposed to "destroy the myth" this year being a mile back in the AL East (the Yanks pitching, if you can call it that, is keeping the Red Sox alive) and on the brink of missing the playoffs ENTIRELY, yeah.

Good to know.

 

Sox fans, that's 5,000 strikeouts down the shitter for you guys. And you thought those two were good pitchers! So easily fooled by the pretty numbers!

 

Meanwhile, I'll be deleting my Whitey Ford Yankeeography off my Tivo. I always thought he was somewhat decent, but he blew it twice against the Koufax shmuck in 63.

 

What a hack.

'Sault whose your team again?

I'm a Yankee fan.

 

I'm not a Yankee fan who goes "OMG PEDRO IS TEH SUXORS BECAUSE HE DIDN'T GO EIGHT INNINGS IN GAME 7!"

Hey what am I saying that isn't true?

 

Pedro wants to be recognized as one of the all-time greatest, well getting through eight innings in a playoff game (I know it's not like it's ever been done before, not by Josh Beckett or anything) would help his rep.

Just for shits and giggles, I'm going to give you a couple stats from a couple diffent pitcher's play off outings. Just to see if you can name the hacks and losers involved.

 

NLCS 1971

IP H HR R ER BB K

5.2 10 1 7 7 2 6

WS 1967

6 3 0 1 0 2 5

 

NLCS 1976

7 8 1 5 4 5 6

 

NLCS 1977

5 4 1 4 4 5 3

 

NLCS 1980

5.1 4 0 2 2 5 3

 

WS 1980

7 4 0 1 1 3 7

 

NLCS 1983

7.2 7 0 0 0 2 6

6 6 1 1 1 3 7

 

WS 1983

6.2 5 1 3 2 3 7

 

ALCS 1986

7.1 10 0 8 7 3 5

 

7 4 0 1 1 1 3

 

WS 1986

 

7 4 0 2 1 2 8

4.1 5 0 3 3 4 3

 

ALCS 1988

7 6 1 3 3 0 8

 

ALCS 1990

1.2 3 0 3 3 1 0

6 4 0 0 0 4 4

ALDS 1995

7 5 0 3 3 1 5

 

 

ALDS 1999

7 3 0 0 0 2 2

 

ALCS 1999

2 6 1 5 5 2 2

 

WS 1999

7.2 4 0 1 1 2 4

 

ALDS 2000

6 7 0 4 4 4 5

5 6 1 6 6 4 5

 

ALDS 2001

4 4 1 2 2 3 1

4.1 5 0 3 3 1 5

 

ALCS 2001

5 1 0 0 0 4 7

 

WS 2001

7 3 0 1 1 3 9

6.1 7 0 1 1 1 10

 

ALDS 2002

5.2 8 1 4 4 3 5

ALDS 2003

7 5 1 1 1 1 6

 

ALCS 2003

6 5 0 2 2 1 7

3 6 2 4 3 1 1

 

WS 2003

7 8 1 3 3 0 5

ALDS 1995

7 4 1 2 2 4 10

 

ALCS 1995

7.1 8 1 4 3 0 7

ALDS 1997 5 7 1 5 5 4 3

 

NLDS 1998

6 3 1 2 1 1 8

NLCS 2001

7 7 1 2 2 2 8

 

WS 2001

 

7 6 0 2 2 2 7

 

NLDS 2002

6 10 2 6 5 2 4

 

 

 

 

Clearly, such a group of hacks and losers and non 8 inning pitchers has never been assembled.

 

The $ 64, 000 question.

 

Who are they?

Edited July 29, 2004 by Anglesault

[Precious Roy 0]

Let me just say that team chemisty may not be quantifiable but it exists, and the statement, "I don't believe in clutch hitting," makes me laugh excessively.

 

Not a trade, but the Yankees are looking at Crime Dog. Good pickup IMO, with Giambi and all. Clark will still start most games but I can definitely see McGriff picking up a couple clutch pinch hits down the stretch.

[Guest Anglesault]

Let me just say that team chemisty may not be quantifiable but it exists,

But it's not a necessity.

[Precious Roy 0]

Not a necessity, but it does make close knit teams play greater than the sum of their parts, and it can make a big difference in a close pennant race or series.

[Guest Anglesault]

and it can make a big difference in a close pennant race or series.

And so can a team of 25 men and 25 cabs. Look at the 1978 Yankees. They may not admit to it now, but that was a group of people that didn't particularly like each other (It wasn't just Reggie, Billy and Thurman) making the greatest comback in years.

[Gert T 0]

As a Cards fan, I want them to pick up Urbina, but even if they don't I won't cry.

 

Urbina would be nice as another right-handed arm getting the ball to the always "reliable" Izzy.

[Bored 0]

and the statement, "I don't believe in clutch hitting," makes me laugh excessively.

Clutch hits happen but there is no special skill to clutch hitting, period.

 

Besides the idea of "clutch" hitting is overrated. Say a team wins a game 3-2. On the winning team Player A hits a two-run homer in the 3rd with no one out. Player B hits a game winning bloop single in the 9th. Now many will refer to Player B's hit as "clutch." Now why is his bloop single more "clutch" than Player A's homerun? If Player A doesn't homer early in the game Player B isn't in the situation to win the game. Player A is more responsible for his team winning yet Player B will be considered the hero especially if it's a postseason game.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

This thread has elevated Anglesault.

 

Clutch hits happen but there is no special skill to clutch hitting, period.

 

Agreed. When you argue against clutch hitting, you'll always get the usual "you're crazy" responses. I think the numbers bear out my argument. The more playing time a player gets in the postseason, the more his postseason stats resemble his career stats. Let's take a look at Derek Jeter, the first player mentioned when it comes to clutch hitting....

 

(Through 2003)

Career 317/389/462

Postseason 314/385/469

 

Another player always mentioned as a great clutch hitter is Reggie Jackson. In five World Series, he hit 357/457/755. Very, very impressive. But in 11 League Championship Series, he hit 227/298/380. It begs the question, if he had this inate ability to hit in the clutch, why didn't he use it?

 

Clutch performances happen. But they aren't the result of any special "clutch" ability.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

As a Cards fan, I want them to pick up Urbina, but even if they don't I won't cry.

 

Urbina would be nice as another right-handed arm getting the ball to the always "reliable" Izzy.

At this point, there's no need to tamper with anything in regards to the Cardinals. With the best record in baseball, they don't seem to have any holes in their team, so any additions wouldn't seem necessary at this point.