EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 The Phillies are a amazing 1-6 on their homestand. Despite being division favorites at the beginning of the season, they sit 5.5 games behind the Braves, and just a single game above .500. Tomorrow is an off day. So does Bowa get the long awaited boot? Or does the Philly brass wait until the next homestand just to hear the boobirds in full force? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarleyQuinn 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 If they were bloody smart they would set the pitbulls on him while he races out the door on monday. Who would his replacement be though? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 Can they blame some of the loses to Billy Wagner having a subpar season filled with injuries? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 If they were bloody smart they would set the pitbulls on him while he races out the door on monday. Who would his replacement be though? Would it be possible to bring in Valintine who is currently coaching in Japan? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 Can they blame some of the loses to Billy Wagner having a subpar season filled with injuries? Not really. Tim Worrell has four blown saves, and a few of those were as a middle reliever. So the loss of Wagner hasn't hurt. The real problem from a performance standpoint is subpar pitching (especially from Myers and Abbott), and the uselessness of Roberto Hernandez, among others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruiser Chong 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 Can they blame some of the loses to Billy Wagner having a subpar season filled with injuries? I don't think so. The pen has blown many games, but I not enough in the ninth to justify that reasoning. Their offense just seems to have underachieved most of the season and their starting pitching has been embarrassing at times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 Would it be possible to bring in Valintine who is currently coaching in Japan? I doubt Valentine would jump countries mid-season. My dream choices (in no particular order) would be Earl Weaver, Larry Dierker, Davey Johnson, Willie Randolph, and Marc Bombard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 Or it could be that everyone dismisses the Braves for some reason.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 The Braves having a .558 winning percentage doesn't surprise me one bit. That the Phillies are barely above .500 is the problem. The Braves are on the verge of running away with this division. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted August 2, 2004 As a Marlin fan SAVE LARRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 So would it be allright to start a "Fire Howe" thread? Bowa isn't even the worst manager in the NL East! I don't agree with his firing....not yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted August 2, 2004 Willie Randolph, HEY! Willie will be a manager. In four years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strummer 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 Would it be possible to bring in Valintine who is currently coaching in Japan? I doubt Valentine would jump countries mid-season. My dream choices (in no particular order) would be Earl Weaver, Larry Dierker, Davey Johnson, Willie Randolph, and Marc Bombard. Agree on Davey Johnson. Al, could you almost say that Davey Johnson was a precursor to the MoneyBall explosion? When he managed the Mets, they NEVER played smallball. The Mets never bunted, never stole bases, or gave up outs. The man played Kevin Mitchell at shortstop for Christ sakes, Kevin Mitchell! It was my favorite period in Mets history. It was all about drawing walks and hitting 3 run homers. The Mets during Johnson's era were allows near the bottom of the League in Team BA, but hit a ton of homers and WON without playing God Damn smallball. That is why I never liked Valentine, who bunted ALL THE TIME. Now, he had a lot of weak hitters during his reign, so you could make a case, but Valentine was all about small ball. And the funny thing is that when Davey managed the Mets, the media would kill him for not bunting and playing supbar defenders. I don't know what it is, but the small ball theory has always been blindly accepted by the media and even till this day. I wish the Mets had a manager like Davey Johnson, or better yet had Davey Johnson. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 So would it be allright to start a "Fire Howe" thread? Bowa isn't even the worst manager in the NL East! I don't agree with his firing....not yet. What's the point in firing Howe? The Mets aren't winning reguardless of who their manager is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 Agree on Davey Johnson. Al, could you almost say that Davey Johnson was a precursor to the MoneyBall explosion? In a way, but he was by no means the first. That honor belongs to Earl Weaver. The thing about Davey Johnson that I like is that his teams almost always became winners, and he was extremely creative with his roster. One game he was forced to put a pitcher on the field, and he platooned Roger McDowell and Jesse Orosco, bringing one to the mound and the other to left/right field depending on whether a lefty or righty was at bat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smh810 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 So let me get this straight you guys love a manager that left Dwight Gooden out to rot in 88 then subsequently underachieved in Cincinatti and Baltimore. (could have won a WS in Cincy and definitely should have won a WS in Baltimore) and was a miserable flop in LA??? Davey Johnson... good manager, yes. Great manager? no Highly overrated? Hell yes! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarleyQuinn 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 If you call 4 season above(well above) .500 ball with Cincinnati/Baltimore underachieving then damn right. In 94/95 he finished 1st with Cincinnati and in 96/97 he finished 2nd and 1st with Baltimore. He's only performed under .500 ball with the 90 Mets(Got fired after only 42 games), 93 Reds and 96 Dodgers(Next season the Dodgers with him as coach finished 86-76, good for 2nd and a .531 W%). You could also technically discount the 93-95 seasons if you want due to the whole strike fiasco. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 While we're at it, can we fire Ed wade, too? CF and starting pitching were the 2 main concerns, and neither were addressed. But, hey, Marlon Byrd is coming back up. The. Phillies. Are. Done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 If only we had a good pitcher in the bullpen that we could slide in the rotation, we'd be set. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smh810 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 If you call 4 season above(well above) .500 ball with Cincinnati/Baltimore underachieving then damn right. In 94/95 he finished 1st with Cincinnati and in 96/97 he finished 2nd and 1st with Baltimore. He's only performed under .500 ball with the 90 Mets(Got fired after only 42 games), 93 Reds and 96 Dodgers(Next season the Dodgers with him as coach finished 86-76, good for 2nd and a .531 W%). You could also technically discount the 93-95 seasons if you want due to the whole strike fiasco. Davey is a good manager but he didn't consistently get the most out of his teams. He completely botched the 88 NLCS by having a tired Dwight Gooden work the ninth inning with a 4-2 lead and nobody warming up in the bullpen in Game 4. The Dodgers tied the game with a Mike Scoscia HR and eventually won it in the 12th inning. The Mets were swimming upstream for the rest of the series. In his Reds tenure, they were quickly losing ground to the Astros when the strike hit and who knows whether they would have won the division. In 1995, that team should have beaten the Braves and moved on to the World Series (although I dont think they had enough to beat Cleveland that year). In Baltimore he should have at least won in 1997. There is no excuse for using Armando Benitez when he blew a game (3?) earlier in the series and he gave up the home run to TONY FERNANDEZ! At any rate, Johnson is definitely a good manager but if he was truly great IMO he would have at least two more World Series rings based on the teams he had to work with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 In 1995, that team should have beaten the Braves and moved on to the World Series (although I dont think they had enough to beat Cleveland that year). How can you say they should have beaten the Braves? The Braves were five wins better and had two or perhaps even three HOF starters. At any rate, Johnson is definitely a good manager but if he was truly great IMO he would have at least two more World Series rings based on the teams he had to work with. The postseason is not a good measure of success. Look at the teams Johnson had..... Davey Johnson inherited a team that finished 68-94 in 1983. Johnson took over, and the Mets AVERAGED 96 wins over the next six seasons. Johnson left, and the next year the Mets fell to 77-84, and quickly became the joke of baseball. Johnson took over the Reds, who finished 73-89 in 1993. Johnson led them to consecutive division titles. He left, and the Reds fell to third place. Johnson moved on to the Orioles, who finished 71-73 in 1995. The made the playoffs the two seasons Johnson managed. Since he left, the team has yet to finish higher than fourth. Three teams, all of which were worse before and after Johnson managed. If he wasn't great, but his teams were good, what the heck happened? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therealworldschampion 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 Don't worry guys, Wade and Bowa's firing day is coming........I hope Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Czech Republic 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 Well, Cubs are done with Philly, so I don't care what you guys do. But go ahead, yeah, fire Bowa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smh810 0 Report post Posted August 2, 2004 How can you say they should have beaten the Braves? The Braves were five wins better and had two or perhaps even three HOF starters. The postseason is not a good measure of success. Look at the teams Johnson had..... Davey Johnson inherited a team that finished 68-94 in 1983. Johnson took over, and the Mets AVERAGED 96 wins over the next six seasons. Johnson left, and the next year the Mets fell to 77-84, and quickly became the joke of baseball. Johnson took over the Reds, who finished 73-89 in 1993. Johnson led them to consecutive division titles. He left, and the Reds fell to third place. Johnson moved on to the Orioles, who finished 71-73 in 1995. The made the playoffs the two seasons Johnson managed. Since he left, the team has yet to finish higher than fourth. Three teams, all of which were worse before and after Johnson managed. If he wasn't great, but his teams were good, what the heck happened? Ok, I'll concede the 1995 point. However, I strongly disagree with your assesment that the postseason results are not a good indicator of a manger's success. A manager's career is made (and sometimes broken) in the post season. That doesn't neccessarilly mean you MUST win multiple World Series all of the time but you MUST win when the talent is there to back you up IMO. When you look at the talented teams that Johnson had he shouldnt have only one WS ring. He should have won in 1988 and 1997, there is no excuse for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
