Benoit/Orton, Michaels/Kane

[Guest wildpegasus]

From PWI insider

 

 

Allen Woods sent a link to the Ticketmaster listing for the 9/5 Raw brand house show in Dallas, TX. One of the matches listed is Shawn Michaels vs. Kane. All I can add to that is that Michaels is expected back at or shortly after SummerSlam and last I heard was planned to have a program with Kane, which will be based on the injury angle that they shot between the two that gave Michaels the summer off to be with his wife as she prepared to give birth. And, in a "was it a spoiler or a mistake" moment, Allen also sent word that in the Dallas market last night, during Smackdown, a commercial aired for that same house show where they promoted a main event of a Texas Death Match: Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton for the World Title and they announced Orton as the champion.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I don't know how that qualifies as a spoiler.

 

Wait.

 

You mean people are expecting Benoit to retain? Yipes.

[Guest TigerDriver91]

I don't know how that qualifies as a spoiler.

 

Wait.

 

You mean people are expecting Benoit to retain? Yipes.

Golly! I sure can't wait for that 6 month Orton-HHH feud.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I don't know how that qualifies as a spoiler.

 

Wait.

 

You mean people are expecting Benoit to retain? Yipes.

Golly! I sure can't wait for that 6 month Orton-HHH feud.

Both of those guys will have a hard time getting the fans behind them when one of them has to of course turn face.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

..I think the crowd will be really into Orton as a face.. he gets pops as a heel.. I think he'll be a break-out face

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I wouldn't be suprised to see Benoit win at Summerslam, then jobbing to Orton at Unforgiven.

[natey2k4 0]

Me either. I do think Orton will win, but its quite possible for Benoit to win (it is in Canada, remind you) and have Orton win at Unforgiven. Although, they seem to want the Orton push NOW! So I dont think they are going to job him to Benoit. And at the second biggest PPV of the year.. I'm not sure if they wanna send the fans home without a declared winner.

[Promoter 0]

If Orton loses to Benoit what would be his reason for getting a rematch? Orton is gonna win folks. He got the battle royale win and the pinfall over Benoit. They obviously want us to buy him as a top contender to buy him going over the champion. Jobbing to Benoit doesn't equal that status. More people would be watching summerslam as well.

[Guest TigerDriver91]

Orton's victory over Benoit in the tag-team match was nothing more than a fluke.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

This topic kinda got me thinkin': What will end off the show?

 

HHH/Eugene- Possibility. Does the company have enough faith in Eugene to not only give him the ME spot but to put him over in it?

 

JBL/Taker- Nope. Should be chock full of overbooking and a possible run-in by John Heindreich. Not gonna happen.

 

Eddy/Angle- LOL.

 

Benoit/Orton- Another possbility, but Orton going over Benoit probably won't still well with the crowd and the WWE tends to end off the big shows with a face victory. Well, except for last years SummerSlam where HHH killed Goldbergs heat (not to mention the crowds).

[Promoter 0]

Orton's victory over Benoit in the tag-team match was nothing more than a fluke.

TigerDriver91. Do you remember Eddie Guerrero fluking a win over Brock Lesnar in a tag match before the big title change at No Way Out as well? Not many people thought Eddie would have gone over either.

 

The wwe if they are smart won't have HHH end the show in Toronto for obvious reasons. JBL/Taker could end the show where Taker gets some kind of consolation celebration. As I said before the 1993 Yoko/Luger finish. I still don't put it past the wwe do screw with us Canadians deliberately by having Benoit job in the last match. They know the damn building will piss and moan. Think about Montreal. I still think Edge costing Benoit the title in Toronto might be the finish of the ppv. That would be a strong ending with a strong reaction.

[Guest TigerDriver91]

All I have to say is the pending Orton-HHH feud will be coma-inducing garbage shoved down our throats for six months or so. Yeah that's enough to make me watch baseball games again.

 

Maybe a lot of people are might be excited about the feud, but I sure as hell won't be.

 

Just what we need...

 

WWE Champ - JBL

World Champ - Orton

 

Who is the bigger fuck up in the ring?

[ChrisMWaters 0]

For the Shawn/Kane thing...

 

Perhaps that means HBK will cost Kane the match against Matt Hardy?

[Lil' Bitch 0]

WWE Champ - JBL

World Champ - Orton

 

Who is the bigger fuck up in the ring?

 

Bradshaw by a long shot. At least Orton can bring something to the table.

[Use Your Illusion 0]

I think it is painfully obvious that Kane is beating Hardy at Summerslam, so I don't think HBK will be involved in the finish. If he is, it'll be to accidentally cost Hardy the match, but even then I doubt that will happen.

 

The creative depth and downright unpredictability of a Kane/Lita wedding is must-see tv!

[Guest TigerDriver91]

I predict that Kane defeats Matt Hardy with help from Lita.

[cawthon777 0]

They obviously want us to buy him as a top contender to buy him going over the champion. Jobbing to Benoit doesn't equal that status.

... Yuh huh.

 

Survivor Series 96. Bret vs. Austin. Austin lost but did the rivalry end there? No. Did he look bad in defeat? No, because his push to the next level was just beginning.

 

Royal Rumble 03. Benoit vs. Angle. Benoit loses but his performance showed that he COULD be champion, given another opportunity.

 

There are dozens of other examples here.

 

My point is that there is no reason to hotshot the belt onto someone who the company is trying to bring to that next level. Make it a slow burn. Make the fans care about the title hunt. Stretch it out a little more. Have Benoit go over at Summer Slam, in which Orton comes very close to taking the belt, then Orton wins the belt at Unforgiven.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

I dont know, I think this isn't much different in terms of timing as when Rock won the World Title for the first time. He had never main evented either, and it worked out. Now, I dont think Orton will come anywhere near Rock's success but in terms of timing its similar.

 

I dont think the house show spoilers are a sure thing, but it seems to make sense to go to Orton right now, because Benoit doesn't have any interesting opponents left and they seem to want to do HHH-Orton for Mania.

 

In terms of order of the matches, I think they'll end on Orton-Benoit because it will likely have a title change. Even though its a heel title win, I still see it going last. Just like when Lesnar beat Rock 2 years ago.

 

However, I could also see them ending on Eugene-HHH because thats the only babyface win I see in the top 4 matches on the show.

 

As for HBK-Kane, leave it to PWI to state the obvious. BREAKING NEWS: HBK will go after Kane! Wow! Thanks Dave!

 

The way I see the angle playing out, Kane will just beat Hardy at the PPV and hurt him to explain his absense. In 2 weeks or so they will have the Kane-Lita wedding on RAW, which will be ruined (or saved) by HBK doing a run-in at the end to attack Kane. That kicks off their program. Cant see them bringing in HBK at Summerslam because no wrestling fan in Toronto will cheer HBK doing anything.

[Promoter 0]

The fans have cheered HBK in Toronto. I give you exhibit A when Jericho was attacking Stacy and hbk did the run in to CHEERS. Who would have thought Toronto would cheer HBK over Jericho regardless of the situation.

 

cawthon777, I know about Austin not going over Bret at Survivor Series '96. First of all the writers(more like bookers then) were different. When you look at the situation how could Bret Hart who just signed a 20 year contract return in MSG and JOB to Austin. You kill his return heat right away. What happened however was Austin going over Bret Hart at the Royal Rumble in the match that meant something in terms of a championship or accolade. Hart never beat Austin at WM 13 either because he never quit. Most importantly there was no title on the line for the match. Hart was still possibly the top contender to challenge HBK for the title down the line. The point with having Orton go over in his first try is to perhaps rub it in Triple H's face that he did it in his first attempt, while Triple H had numerous chances and blew it. The story is Triple H/Orton in the long run. I have already said personally I would have booked Orton/Benoit at Survivor Series for multiple of reasons.

 

Benoit was not going to go over Angle at the RR '03 because it was already slated to be Angle/Lesnar just as it's slated supposedly for Orton/HHH for Mania 21.

[clean rob 0]

My point is that there is no reason to hotshot the belt onto someone who the company is trying to bring to that next level. Make it a slow burn. Make the fans care about the title hunt. Stretch it out a little more. Have Benoit go over at Summer Slam, in which Orton comes very close to taking the belt, then Orton wins the belt at Unforgiven.

I agree completely. Have Orton in a 25-30 minute match with Benoit where he gets a ton of nearfalls but makes a mistake at the end which costs him the match. Then HHH can give him a load of 'Don't feel bad kid, taking the belt off Benoit is a job for a pro, like me.' spiel to add to the animosity between them. As for Orton's reason for a rematch, 'I came really really close to winning' is usually enough in WWE-land.

[Guest Quik]

Hmm. I wouldn't be surprised to see them give the belt to Orton just to stick it to Brock "I did make it into the NFL, Vince" Lesnar

[Fökai 0]

Hmm. I wouldn't be surprised to see them give the belt to Orton just to stick it to Brock "I did make it into the NFL, Vince" Lesnar

Where's the relation between making Orton the champion and sticking it to Lesnar?

[Guest TigerDriver91]

Hmm. I wouldn't be surprised to see them give the belt to Orton just to stick it to Brock "I did make it into the NFL, Vince" Lesnar

Yeah, I am sure Brock would really give a damn right now.

[cawthon777 0]

cawthon777, I know about Austin not going over Bret at Survivor Series '96. First of all the writers(more like bookers then) were different. When you look at the situation how could Bret Hart who just signed a 20 year contract return in MSG and JOB to Austin. You kill his return heat right away. What happened however was Austin going over Bret Hart at the Royal Rumble in the match that meant something in terms of a championship or accolade. Hart never beat Austin at WM 13 either because he never quit. Most importantly there was no title on the line for the match. Hart was still possibly the top contender to challenge HBK for the title down the line. The point with having Orton go over in his first try is to perhaps rub it in Triple H's face that he did it in his first attempt, while Triple H had numerous chances and blew it. The story is Triple H/Orton in the long run.

 

Um, ok. I think you missed my point - that being that when you have two guys ... and one is top tier and you want the other one to get to that point ... it's not always best to have the mid-carder beat the main eventer on the first try. This has nothing to do with contracts or what was on the line and what match was more important. Benoit has to beat Orton every single night to stay champion. Orton only has to beat Benoit once to win it. So have Benoit beat Orton. Then have him make a mistake somewhere along the way, with Orton taking the belt. That's a better plan than just throwing the belt on Randy with 3 weeks buildup.

 

Benoit was not going to go over Angle at the RR '03 because it was already slated to be Angle/Lesnar just as it's slated supposedly for Orton/HHH for Mania 21.

 

'Supposedly' is the key word here. Anything can happen between August 6, 2004 and WrestleMania XXI. At this point last year, Bret Hart was 'supposedly' going to be at WrestleMania XX - a card which was to 'supposedly' feature a unification match pitting the WWE Champ against the World Champ. Or so the Internet said.

 

If Triple H / Orton is a long term plan - why put the belt on Orton now? And what sense is there in having Orton defend the belt at WrestleMania as a face? Wouldn't it be better for him to challenge a heel Triple H? There are too many questions surrounding this whole thing now to put in stone that Orton is winning at Summer Slam or that it will be Triple H / Orton at Mania.

[Promoter 0]

cawthon777, I know about Austin not going over Bret at Survivor Series '96. First of all the writers(more like bookers then) were different. When you look at the situation how could Bret Hart who just signed a 20 year contract return in MSG and JOB to Austin. You kill his return heat right away. What happened however was Austin going over Bret Hart at the Royal Rumble in the match that meant something in terms of a championship or accolade. Hart never beat Austin at WM 13 either because he never quit. Most importantly there was no title on the line for the match. Hart was still possibly the top contender to challenge HBK for the title down the line. The point with having Orton go over in his first try is to perhaps rub it in Triple H's face that he did it in his first attempt, while Triple H had numerous chances and blew it. The story is Triple H/Orton in the long run.

 

Um, ok. I think you missed my point - that being that when you have two guys ... and one is top tier and you want the other one to get to that point ... it's not always best to have the mid-carder beat the main eventer on the first try. This has nothing to do with contracts or what was on the line and what match was more important. Benoit has to beat Orton every single night to stay champion. Orton only has to beat Benoit once to win it. So have Benoit beat Orton. Then have him make a mistake somewhere along the way, with Orton taking the belt. That's a better plan than just throwing the belt on Randy with 3 weeks buildup.

 

Benoit was not going to go over Angle at the RR '03 because it was already slated to be Angle/Lesnar just as it's slated supposedly for Orton/HHH for Mania 21.

 

'Supposedly' is the key word here. Anything can happen between August 6, 2004 and WrestleMania XXI. At this point last year, Bret Hart was 'supposedly' going to be at WrestleMania XX - a card which was to 'supposedly' feature a unification match pitting the WWE Champ against the World Champ. Or so the Internet said.

 

If Triple H / Orton is a long term plan - why put the belt on Orton now? And what sense is there in having Orton defend the belt at WrestleMania as a face? Wouldn't it be better for him to challenge a heel Triple H? There are too many questions surrounding this whole thing now to put in stone that Orton is winning at Summer Slam or that it will be Triple H / Orton at Mania.

I didn't miss your point and I agree with you for the most part. I think you missed my point WHY they might have Orton go over Benoit in the first try. Benoit repeatedly beating Orton until he finally gets the title weakens the story of Orton being another Evolution member showing up Triple H's leadership role as being the guy who gets the job done. It goes back to "not dropping the ball". I also understand that the key word is "supposedly", but we are dealing with Triple H who is basically management. The champ vs. champ scenario was brought up around Survivor Series. Obviously, the behind the scenes problems with Goldberg and the wwe prevented them going ahead with Lesnar/Goldberg(not counting Lesnar's passion or lack thereof). It still ended up with Triple H in the main event. I have already stated in another thread why they might think this is a good idea.

 

I ask this. What would be the direction for Chris Benoit as champion then? Champ vs. Champ against Edge if he retains the title? Highly unlikely.

[Guest TigerDriver91]

How the hell do they expect to make a 6 month HHH-Orton feud interesting or even remotely exciting? Especially when it's obvious that HHH gets the belt back at WrestleMania 21.

 

[Promoter 0]

They can break up the 6 months with 3 months having Orton remaining heel and in the group and the other half turn him face by getting kicked out of Evolution(face off against Batista/Flair/new Evolution member perhaps). The last month you got the build for Orton heading into WM 21 against Triple H. The three months have Orton up against faces Benoit/Jericho/HBK and then the other 3 months against Flair/Batista/maybe heel turned Edge. The problem here is that WE know what the possible plan is so of course it may be boring now. Suppose we didn't find out?

[Jericholic82 0]

Hmm. I wouldn't be surprised to see them give the belt to Orton just to stick it to Brock "I did make it into the NFL, Vince" Lesnar

Where's the relation between making Orton the champion and sticking it to Lesnar?

the significance is that Lesnar became the youngest wwe champion in history at ss 02 at 25, orton is only 24, heck randall even mentioned it on raw

 

despite the fact that the raw title is a bogus title (its basically the wcw title with no cred) but myabe we can just draw from it that it carries the wcw/nwa lineage all the way back to 1906!!!(tm eric bischoff)

 

 

and also rock/brock will probably be thought of as 10 times or more better than the orton/benoit match well get

 

 

besides that benoit has beaten orton numerous times in tag matches (the last time in the six man elimination tag on raw a while ago (yknow the one when the show lasted 15 mins past the usual end time)\

 

and if orton does win at ss I cant bring a "hey at least bradshaw isnt the world champ here" sign to raw on aug 23 as a "tribute" to scott keith

 

 

(and if any of my fellow smartmarks on this board are going to summerslam, please try to bring a "I can't believe I went to a ppv main evented by bradshaw" sign for me lol )

[Guest wildpegasus]

I ask this. What would be the direction for Chris Benoit as champion then? Champ vs. Champ against Edge if he retains the title? Highly unlikely.

Well, they're doing Orton now so after that's done Benoit should face Michaels as champ. The rivalry never ended when HHH took Michaels away from Benoit. Really, it's just starting. They can go a long way with it. They can also do Benoit vs Jericho {Mania), Edge, Batista or Regal if they play their cards right. The HHH feud hasn't been decided yet either. Neither man beat the other one on one in a clean manner yet.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

It isn't certain Orton will job to HHH at WM..

 

Wrestling has alot of variables..

 

A) Things can go according to "plan" and Orton will keep the title until WM, then job it to HHH

 

B) Orton will beat Benoit for the title, and become such a break-out champ that they won't give the title to HHH

 

C) Orton will beat Benoit and be such a disappointment that they'll have to take the belt off him much sooner than WM

 

etc, etc...

 

With WM so far away, saying that Orton will job the title to HHH is ridiculous.