Smackdown post-Summerslam

[clean rob 0]

How about:

 

He's become shit in the ring

He's no workrate dream, that's for sure, but to say he's shit is pushing it. His selling and ability to get a crowd behind him are both great, and he delivers his spots crisply. He's better than Hogan ever was, and not far off Rock, and they both made fine champions.

 

He's become shit on the mic

No he hasn't. Cena always looks extremely comfortable on the mic, and although he hasn't quite managed to deliver what I'd call a 'money promo' yet, he nearly always has the crowd eating out of his hand. His material regularly sucks, but his mic technique is better than 90% of the roster.

 

He's got a shit character

No he hasn't. He's got a well-defined character who a lot of the audience can relate to. In a world of over-the-top characters, Cena's is relatively realistic and translates well to the wrestling world. Most importantly, he's got a character period, which is more than a large proportion of the roster have.

 

His gimmick is stale as hell

Perhaps it is if you suffer from ADD. The gimmick has caught on to such a degree that to change it right now would be lunatic.

 

Yeah, he's over. But so is Eddie, who is 100x the wrestler Cena is.

Well, he's a lot better if that's what you mean.

 

Cena's ONLY positive is his popularity.

If that's his only positive, how did he get so popular in the first place?

 

It would be fine if his overness smokes Eddie's, but it doesn't. When he's only slightly more over (debatable) than Eddie, who is way better in everything else, he shouldn't be pushed over him.

It's quite possible for both to be pushed at the same time, you know. And if they meet at Mania, Cena would gain a whole lot more from a win than Eddie.

[Promoter 0]

I know I see some problems with the smackdown run going into Mania. I have a problem with Angle heading into Mania with the belt. He has done this the last two years and lost the title. Who wants to see the hat trick of that? Angle is not that over to overlook this. I think if he was at Rock levels of popularity it might be possible, but something fresh needs to happen for the smackdown main event regarding Angle if he is to be involved. No Way Out is in Pittsburgh and it's possible Angle may be given the strap there. The only twist with Angle for the sd main event would be him entering in as challenger and winning. Let's not forget the health issue either. Personally, I think the wwe should turn either Cena or Eddie heel and do Eddie/Cena for the strap in Los Angeles. The demographics in the audience would eat it up. Then do something fresh with Angle with a raw vs. smackdown match with Shawn Michaels. BTW, Cena is no where close to Hogan in terms of workrate, at least the 1984-1988 version. Hogan actually made his challengers look like they had a chance of beating him. His mic work was good to great in an era when that wasn't a major issue in getting a wrestler over. Plus, he didn't make poo poo jokes even at his most super hero like best I do have concerns with Cena's character losing the edge it had just last winter. He has been coasting ever since WM XX imo and been turned to PC friendly.

[Dark Age 0]

He's no workrate dream, that's for sure, but to say he's shit is pushing it. His selling and ability to get a crowd behind him are both great, and he delivers his spots crisply. He's better than Hogan ever was, and not far off Rock, and they both made fine champions.

 

You're serious with Rock? You honestly think Cena is anywhere near Rocky in terms of in-ring ability? Wow. Cena has had one match I would rank above 'good' in WWE, against Angle at MN last year. Other than that, he's had a couple of pretty good tv matches with Benoit, a solid bout with Eddie last year, a fun brawl with Eddie, a pretty good match with Taker at Vengeance, and that's about it. This year (from which I'm rating his abilities), he's been horrible. He had a solid match with Taker, and that's it really. Last year, I thought he did show alot of potential, and looked good in the ring. When he turned face, his timing and his selling where almost spot on. He timed his comebacks well, knew when to hit his hope spots. This year, Cena has shown ZERO IMPROVEMENT and has actually gotten worse. I don't know how you can even put him in the same breath as Rocky.

 

No he hasn't. Cena always looks extremely comfortable on the mic, and although he hasn't quite managed to deliver what I'd call a 'money promo' yet, he nearly always has the crowd eating out of his hand. His material regularly sucks, but his mic technique is better than 90% of the roster.

 

He has the crowd "eating out of his hand" because he is the king of the cheap pops. Last year, I was one of Cena's biggest fans. Heck, even when he first turned face he was still enjoyable on the mic. This year it's all 'deez nutz' and 'the poo poo' and really forced humour. Like you said, there hasn't been any money promos, but there doesn't need to be YET. Still, he has yet to deliver a promo that puts over ANYTHING, never mind sells a ppv. What does Cena on the mic acomplish? Does it sell pay per views? No. Put over his opponents? No. Is it really funny? No. Is it really intense and cool? No. So what does it do? It's just an excuse for Cena to suck up to the crowd, then start making poop jokes, which aren't funny. Or gay jokes.

 

I'll agree he does look comfortable on the mic, as if he "belongs".

 

No he hasn't. He's got a well-defined character who a lot of the audience can relate to. In a world of over-the-top characters, Cena's is relatively realistic and translates well to the wrestling world. Most importantly, he's got a character period, which is more than a large proportion of the roster have.

 

Ok, answer me this: What IS Cena's character? His gimmick is that he's a rapper. But what's the character behind the gimmick? He comes out, makes poop jokes, squashes someone in 2 mins. This year, how has his character developed?

 

Perhaps it is if you suffer from ADD. The gimmick has caught on to such a degree that to change it right now would be lunatic.

 

It needs tweaking. He needs "his edge" back. Heel Cena = Good. He can still be a heel and get face pops.

 

Well, he's a lot better if that's what you mean.

 

Yup.

 

If that's his only positive, how did he get so popular in the first place?

 

Heel Cena. Heel Cena is cool. They turn him face, he loses what made him cool in the first place.

 

It's quite possible for both to be pushed at the same time, you know. And if they meet at Mania, Cena would gain a whole lot more from a win than Eddie.

 

Why would he? Cena can be pushed for years to come. Eddie can't. Use Eddie while you still can. Cena will still be here, and over, when Eddie's gone.

[clean rob 0]

You're serious with Rock? ... This year (from which I'm rating his abilities), he's been horrible. He had a solid match with Taker, and that's it really. Last year, I thought he did show alot of potential, and looked good in the ring. When he turned face, his timing and his selling where almost spot on. He timed his comebacks well, knew when to hit his hope spots. This year, Cena has shown ZERO IMPROVEMENT and has actually gotten worse. I don't know how you can even put him in the same breath as Rocky.

Yes I am. He's not as good as Rock, but he doesn't need too much improvement to get to that level. Every time he's been in a big match against a decent opponent he's delivered. Like I said, I wouldn't call him great in the ring, maybe not even good, but he's got enough to have earned a run with the belt.

 

He has the crowd "eating out of his hand" because he is the king of the cheap pops. Last year, I was one of Cena's biggest fans. Heck, even when he first turned face he was still enjoyable on the mic. This year it's all 'deez nutz' and 'the poo poo' and really forced humour. Like you said, there hasn't been any money promos, but there doesn't need to be YET. Still, he has yet to deliver a promo that puts over ANYTHING, never mind sells a ppv. What does Cena on the mic acomplish? Does it sell pay per views? No. Put over his opponents? No. Is it really funny? No. Is it really intense and cool? No. So what does it do? It's just an excuse for Cena to suck up to the crowd, then start making poop jokes, which aren't funny. Or gay jokes.

Essentially what you're mostly saying here is that you think the a lot of Cena's material stinks. I agree. However, you ask what his promos accomplish - well in a similar fashion to HHH's, they function almost solely to put himself over. You may not like his promos, I may not like his promos, but a lot of people must do, because when Cena does one the crowd lap it up - and that's whats got (and kept, to an extent) him over.

 

Ok, answer me this: What IS Cena's character? His gimmick is that he's a rapper. But what's the character behind the gimmick? He comes out, makes poop jokes, squashes someone in 2 mins. This year, how has his character developed?

It hasn't developed at all, but it doesn't need to right now. If it ain't broke etc. His character is just your typical post-Austin face - he's basically a good guy, but he bucks authority and acts cocky etc.

 

It needs tweaking. He needs "his edge" back. Heel Cena = Good. He can still be a heel and get face pops.

Heel Cena. Heel Cena is cool. They turn him face, he loses what made him cool in the first place.

I agree that Cena should try to get a little bit of his harder edge back, but turning him heel sounds like a bad plan to me. The fans are so much behind him that, like the attempted Eddie turn last year, the crowd are likely to just reject the turn offhand. Also, Cena as a heel is nowhere near as effective in the ring.

 

Why would he? Cena can be pushed for years to come. Eddie can't. Use Eddie while you still can. Cena will still be here, and over, when Eddie's gone.

Because letting a future main eventer who seems to be hitting the peak of his popularity wallow in the midcard for years on end is a bad idea. Eddie, Angle, Taker etc. need to elevate Cena now, while they're still here.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

Dark Age, I agree with a lot of what you are saying, in theory.

 

But to say Cena's material sucks and all that is irrelevant because the crowd goes crazy for it. This is an extreme comparison, but I'm sure a lot of people were saying "Hogan has no business being World Champ because he sucks in the ring and his promos are cookie cutters". But if the fans are buying into it, who really cares? And how can you argue against it?

 

The thing about money promos really has no relevance because he's never been put in a position to do a money promo. The only thing we really have to go on in terms of his drawing ability is his merch, which seems to be selling better than anyone except maybe Evolution.

 

Workrate to me is meaningless because its been proven before people will buy into a guy regardless of how good they are in the ring. If workrate mattered for much Chris Benoit would have been World Champ 6 years ago, and would never be out of the title picture. Good work is great for people like us, but I dont thinkt he average fan really cares.

 

His character is as defined as Rock or Stone Cold's was. Austin wanted to whoop the boss' ass, Rock wanted to talk smack and John Cena likes to rhyme and make fart noises. Some may not like it, but it seems most of the audience does.

 

I can see why people have issues with Cena stuff, but at the same time I dont think there is a valid reason why he shouldn't be up in the World Title picture within the next 6 months. Especially considering the fact that Randy Orton will probably be champ by Sunday night.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Workrate to me is meaningless because its been proven before people will buy into a guy regardless of how good they are in the ring ..... Good work is great for people like us, but I dont thinkt he average fan really cares.

Not necessarily. I think the average fan is starting to come around on that lately. They may not be way into the workrate gods, but they are definitely tuning out worthless lunks like Tomko, Heidenreich, Suzuki, Nathan Jones.

[what 0]

But to say Cena's material sucks and all that is irrelevant because the crowd goes crazy for it. This is an extreme comparison, but I'm sure a lot of people were saying "Hogan has no business being World Champ because he sucks in the ring and his promos are cookie cutters". But if the fans are buying into it, who really cares? And how can you argue against it?

 

The thing about money promos really has no relevance because he's never been put in a position to do a money promo. The only thing we really have to go on in terms of his drawing ability is his merch, which seems to be selling better than anyone except maybe Evolution.

He's living off of his good heel promos. The crowd will turn on him eventually. It's not just the smarks who think he's getting old. He's been horribly uninteresting lately.

[Dark Age 0]

Exactly. I don't think the crowd will turn on him, but he will eventually lose steam. Look at Matt Hardy. Got over big from Mattitude. Still over as a face, but the pops died down, because he no longer had the dynamic that made people care about him in the first place. Cena won't be AS bad, because he's beyond that point (Hardy's reaction died almost immediatley, Cena's still hasn't) but he will need to freshen up his character soon.

[Brett Favre 0]

Exactly. I don't think the crowd will turn on him, but he will eventually lose steam. Look at Matt Hardy. Got over big from Mattitude. Still over as a face, but the pops died down, because he no longer had the dynamic that made people care about him in the first place. Cena won't be AS bad, because he's beyond that point (Hardy's reaction died almost immediatley, Cena's still hasn't) but he will need to freshen up his character soon.

Which is when he would turn heel to get that edge back. It's how it works.

[Dark Age 0]

Erm, no. If he's no longer over, what was the point of the turn in the first place? The fans liked to cheer Matt's heel character. Let them.

[Brett Favre 0]

Erm, no. If he's no longer over, what was the point of the turn in the first place? The fans liked to cheer Matt's heel character. Let them.

It's hard to imagine him being not-over. Matt Hardy was never over as a face. When he was over as heel, the WWE didn't even care and just let it die down. That's not the case with Cena.

 

They capitalized on his heel popularity to turn him face. Once the crowd starts getting sick of him as a face, the same thing will happen to him that happened to The Rock when he came back from hollywood, forcing him to turn heel. It'll just go back and forth then. But I really don't think the crowd will get sick of him to begin with anyway.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

Workrate to me is meaningless because its been proven before people will buy into a guy regardless of how good they are in the ring ..... Good work is great for people like us, but I dont thinkt he average fan really cares.

Not necessarily. I think the average fan is starting to come around on that lately. They may not be way into the workrate gods, but they are definitely tuning out worthless lunks like Tomko, Heidenreich, Suzuki, Nathan Jones.

No, but those guys have zero talent, they aren't good in the ring and they're not entertaining characters. My point is just that with a guy like Cena you have a guy the fans connect with, and because of that the workrate is meaningless.