Does RVD deserve a chance....

[Angle-plex 0]

No, but RVD has/had more moves than he currently does, and if he was more motivated/had longer matches, he'd probably try to do them.

 

That is why he hasn't been given the god push, why he isn't a main eventer and why he'll never be the champion.

BINGO!

 

I know RVD-marks don't wanna hear it, but the argument can be made that JBL's putting more effort into his character than RVD has ever.

Ok, so JBL is putting more effort into his character. Does that make him a better choice as champion? Don't you think that maybe JBL is putting so much effort into his character in an attempt to get over with fans BECAUSE he is champion?

Whether you liked Bradshaw at any time or not, you can't say that he was going through the motions (at least as an Acolyte), something Mr ECW can't say................

 

Oh and your little "BECAUSE he's champ' argument might hold water if the whole JBL character hadn't had three and a half months before he was champ

Nobody even liked/cared about/disliked JBL until a few weeks after he became champ at least, and he was on a PUSH with plenty of TV time for those first 3 1/2 months. RVD on the other hand has been depushed to hell the last three years and has remained over to a degree.

[Guest GreatOne]

And to whoever said that RVD should cut his hair, change his attire, ect: Why? So he looks like everybody else? Bad idea.

Oh what you can't see the money in the RVD-Test 'they're actually brothers' feud?

 

Main event anywhere in the country I tell you!!!!!!!

 

Anyway let's just say RVD wins the WWE title from Bradshaw on a fluke, what's gonna be his celebratory promo anyone? 'DUUUUUUUDE, I WON!!!!!!'? Makes Benoit look/sound like the Rock.................

[Guest Trivia247]

Im starting to think that RVD's hair is in fact a hairpiece..

 

think about it his hair hasn't grown or shorten since his debut in ecw in 96. His ponytail is a trademark for him and he never taken it out.

[CanadianChick 0]

Im starting to think that RVD's hair is in fact a hairpiece..

 

think about it his hair hasn't grown or shorten since his debut in ecw in 96. His ponytail is a trademark for him and he never taken it out.

It's came out during matches before. Damn, he looks good with his hair down...

 

And it is possible to keep hair the same length. You just constantly cut it. Duh.

[NoCalMike 0]

RVD was doing fine, in-ring and with the crowd in 2001. It doesn't matter what workrate freaks or ECW marks, or WWE lemmings etc...think. The proof was in the pudding when you turned on Raw/Smackdown. RVD was over and having decent enough matches. His merchandise was selling quite hot. Vince and the writers weren't ignoring this at all, as he was pushed for a couple of months climbing slowly to the better timeslots of the shows, and then in a flash it all ended and the depush was on. Now I could understand not getting title shots, but all what WWE was use the fans love for RVD to get other people over, like Brock and Orton.

 

It doesn't really matter how and/or why he was depushed the way he was, but the fact of the matter is, if Vince wanted him to be there as champ it would have happened. For whatever reason Vince didn't so he never got the title.

[Scroby 0]

When RVD first came back into the WWE in 2001/2002 he was one of the most over people there. Jericho and him were suppose to have a feud for the title but HHH and Austin convinced management that guys with 3 initials shouldn't be in a feud or the fans wouldn't buy into some crappy excuse like that for some reason came out of HHH's mouth, plus you had Angle and his wife complining that RVD was to stiff when Angle got a few bloody lips. Truth was RVD should have been in the title hunt back then but due to people bitching and manupliting the backstage scenes RVD never was able to get his chance so really RVD never got a good chance for the title. I also wanna point out when HBK won the title at Survivor Series the next night on RAW him and RVD had a good match going but HHH came out and RVD never ever got a rematch instead he got put into the tag team with Booker T. So RVD got used to set up the HBK vs HHH feud that went on FOREVER! Ever since he's been on Smackdown there isn't really one thing to complain about with him, people have been complining about how he's been on Velocity a few times but nothing about his matches. If WWE wanted him to go up against JBL RVD could get over big time if he was in that main event spot again. Espically if he won the rumble in some great way, thats just an example so don't get mad at me for saying it. But if he was playing a heel in WWE I think he'd have a tough time trying to stay heel since the fans love the cocky cool guy that he is now, so if he was to go heel he'd might just have to change his entire gimmick around to get heat.

[Angle-plex 0]

Anyway let's just say RVD wins the WWE title from Bradshaw on a fluke, what's gonna be his celebratory promo anyone? 'DUUUUUUUDE, I WON!!!!!!'? Makes Benoit look/sound like the Rock.................

I would take "Dude, I won!" over "But that doesn't matter to the wolverine. *awkward pause* No, that doesn't matter to the wolverine..."

 

Sometimes Benoit is good on the mic, but he usually even makes me feel uncomfortable despite me not even being in the arena.

[humongous2002 0]

Benoit is a great wrestler and could carry anyone to a 4+* match, too bad the mic can't do that for him.

[CanadianChick 0]

You know, maybe RVD wouldn't make a great long term champion, but he'd be perfectly fine as a transitional champion, at least. It'd be a nice break from INTENSITY~! I mean, when was the last time we've had a face World Champion that had the attitude "Yeah, I won. Did you expect any different?" Fans love that. And then when another intense guy wins it, maybe they won't be sick of intensity.

[Guest GreatOne]

When RVD first came back into the WWE in 2001/2002 he was one of the most over people there. Jericho and him were suppose to have a feud for the title but HHH and Austin convinced management that guys with 3 initials shouldn't be in a feud or the fans wouldn't buy into some crappy excuse like that for some reason came out of HHH's mouth, plus you had Angle and his wife complining that RVD was to stiff when Angle got a few bloody lips. Truth was RVD should have been in the title hunt back then but due to people bitching and manupliting the backstage scenes RVD never was able to get his chance so really RVD never got a good chance for the title. I also wanna point out when HBK won the title at Survivor Series the next night on RAW him and RVD had a good match going but HHH came out and RVD never ever got a rematch instead he got put into the tag team with Booker T. So RVD got used to set up the HBK vs HHH feud that went on FOREVER! Ever since he's been on Smackdown there isn't really one thing to complain about with him, people have been complining about how he's been on Velocity a few times but nothing about his matches. If WWE wanted him to go up against JBL RVD could get over big time if he was in that main event spot again. Espically if he won the rumble in some great way, thats just an example so don't get mad at me for saying it. But if he was playing a heel in WWE I think he'd have a tough time trying to stay heel since the fans love the cocky cool guy that he is now, so if he was to go heel he'd might just have to change his entire gimmick around to get heat.

First of all you forgot RVD's run in 03 with Kane and later Orton. Second hey wasn't THIS VERY BOARD doing a collective WTF???? when Jericho/RVD was planned for Royal Rumble 02's main? Hey don't you just love 20/20 hindsight?

 

I would take "Dude, I won!" over "But that doesn't matter to the wolverine. *awkward pause* No, that doesn't matter to the wolverine..."

 

Yeah and his WATER MIMIC OF DOOM!~ bit so owned Benoit's post-WM rebuttal to HHH.......

[Scroby 0]

QUOTE (Scroby @ Aug 23 2004, 03:37 AM)

When RVD first came back into the WWE in 2001/2002 he was one of the most over people there. Jericho and him were suppose to have a feud for the title but HHH and Austin convinced management that guys with 3 initials shouldn't be in a feud or the fans wouldn't buy into some crappy excuse like that for some reason came out of HHH's mouth, plus you had Angle and his wife complining that RVD was to stiff when Angle got a few bloody lips. Truth was RVD should have been in the title hunt back then but due to people bitching and manupliting the backstage scenes RVD never was able to get his chance so really RVD never got a good chance for the title. I also wanna point out when HBK won the title at Survivor Series the next night on RAW him and RVD had a good match going but HHH came out and RVD never ever got a rematch instead he got put into the tag team with Booker T. So RVD got used to set up the HBK vs HHH feud that went on FOREVER! Ever since he's been on Smackdown there isn't really one thing to complain about with him, people have been complining about how he's been on Velocity a few times but nothing about his matches. If WWE wanted him to go up against JBL RVD could get over big time if he was in that main event spot again. Espically if he won the rumble in some great way, thats just an example so don't get mad at me for saying it. But if he was playing a heel in WWE I think he'd have a tough time trying to stay heel since the fans love the cocky cool guy that he is now, so if he was to go heel he'd might just have to change his entire gimmick around to get heat. 

 

First of all you forgot RVD's run in 03 with Kane and later Orton. Second hey wasn't THIS VERY BOARD doing a collective WTF???? when Jericho/RVD was planned for Royal Rumble 02's main? Hey don't you just love 20/20 hindsight?

 

Alright lets talk about RVD vs Kane feud, where Shane took the place of RVD and lets talk about Orton vs RVD which only last about two matches then matches that were spaced out as RVD vs Orton matches were just something for both guys to do as Orton feuded with someone else.

[Guest GreatOne]

Alright let's,

 

Shane got the feud with Kane in a feud no one cared about, while RVD went to the 'Fire Austin' feud that, while ultimately was sacrificed for Orton, was more important and contained some actual good RVD matches with Christian, Jericho, and RVD/Storm vs Vitamin C somewhere in there.

 

Orton led to the RVD/Booker team.

 

Yeah I'm really miffed at the loss of all those RVD/Kane money matches.

[Guest MikeSC]

RVD v Lynn never hit higher than *** at any point. Hate to break it to you. The only people calling them ***** were the ECW marks who called almost anything ECW did as being great.

 

Have you honestly seen those matches?

Yes. All of the PPV ones and all of the ones on TNN.

I find them incredibly entertaining, the only off one of the series being at Guilty as Charged '01. And EVERYONE was calling them classic at the time, it's the only reason I checked them out, as I wasn't an ECW mark.

You were reading ECW marks. Hell, even Keith was dumping on them at the time.

Nash v Hart and Nash v HBK is better than anything RVD has been involved with outside of his match with Eddy at JD 2002. Hell, RVD dragged Benoit to a lacklustre match at SSlam a few years back.

 

Hart/HBK marks would prefer any Hart/HBK match to the next coming of Christ. I disagree. Nash is, was, and will always be a turd. I really don't think I need to back that up.

Nash is pure shit in the ring. No argument. His matches with Hart and Michaels, though, were substantially better than Rob's work.

Funny, Jericho gets buried, stays over, and never appears obviously unmotivated in the ring. RVD does it and gets even WORSE in the ring than he was.

 

Well, I'm a Jericho fan, too, and would love to see him used more, but his ring work for the last year or so has not impressed me at all, and he appears to be out of shape. But yeah, Y2J is over, and could be moreso.

Jericho made Batista look like a million bucks. He took Christian to an excellent match. He'll drag Edge to good matches. I will say that his work has been worlds better than RVD's.

It takes significantly more than just people chanting your name for about 5-10 seconds.

 

What else then? Normally people chant the names of the over wrestlers. This isn't a good argument for you. They also pop for his entrance, and his crappy signature moves. He's over. Sorry.

They sit on their hands when his match is going on. Getting an "ooh" for a nifty spot isn't being over. It's being a mediocre spot monkey.

RVD was doing fine, in-ring and with the crowd in 2001. It doesn't matter what workrate freaks or ECW marks, or WWE lemmings etc...think. The proof was in the pudding when you turned on Raw/Smackdown. RVD was over and having decent enough matches.

RVD is similar to Sabu. When an audience first sees him, they're amazed.

 

After a few appearances, they quickly get bored.

Now I could understand not getting title shots, but all what WWE was use the fans love for RVD to get other people over, like Brock and Orton.

Largely because they are better performers.

Truth was RVD should have been in the title hunt back then but due to people bitching and manupliting the backstage scenes RVD never was able to get his chance so really RVD never got a good chance for the title.

Gee, amazing how it's never RVD's fault.

 

RVD didn't become champ because he was not as good as MANY other choices. RVD was sloppy. RVD couldn't cut a promo to save his life. It took a Herculean effort by Jericho to drag him to a good match.

I also wanna point out when HBK won the title at Survivor Series the next night on RAW him and RVD had a good match going but HHH came out and RVD never ever got a rematch instead he got put into the tag team with Booker T.

That's because RVD wasn't going to be a serious contender.

 

And the match was not very good.

 

RVD is a worker with an amazing propensity to get stale in short order.

-=Mike

[cabbageboy 0]

Most of you guys forget that in ECW RVD was quite good on the mic. WWE has never had any concept of his character (namely an ultra cocky stoner who is confident in his abilities and belittles his opponents). Since early 2002 RVD has played a cookie cutter face character for the most part, which isn't really him.

 

Why is this such a debate anyway? I mean, RVD or Bradshaw...yeah that's a tough pick.

[Guest MikeSC]

Most of you guys forget that in ECW RVD was quite good on the mic. WWE has never had any concept of his character (namely an ultra cocky stoner who is confident in his abilities and belittles his opponents). Since early 2002 RVD has played a cookie cutter face character for the most part, which isn't really him.

 

Why is this such a debate anyway? I mean, RVD or Bradshaw...yeah that's a tough pick.

I, honestly, would take JBL. At least his character isn't bloody dull as dishwater.

-=Mike

...Who thinks JBL has been a good champ...

[Guest GreatOne]

Most of you guys forget that in ECW RVD was quite good on the mic.

 

And the relevance of that's supposed to be? Plus ECW does not equal WWE. Hell Jeremaine Copeland should have been destined for stardom in the NFL after leading the XFL in receiving, right? Same argument essentially.

 

WWE has never had any concept of his character (namely an ultra cocky stoner who ).

 

Gee, other than the weed, ultra cocky dude who is confident in his abilities and belittles his opponents. Wow never seen that in WWE before!!!!!!!!

 

I mean, RVD or Bradshaw...yeah that's a tough pick.

 

Hell, Bradshaw's been bustin' his ass in WWE for eight years. RVD has yet to put together one--solid anyway.

[CanadianChick 0]

WWE has never had any concept of his character (namely an ultra cocky stoner who ).

 

Gee, other than the weed, ultra cocky dude who is confident in his abilities and belittles his opponents. Wow never seen that in WWE before!!!!!!!!

Okay, you can diss Rob's ability, talent and mic work all you want. But there is NO WAY that you can't say that his character is unique. There is nobody even remotely like RVD in WWE, or in the past. Yes, he's confident and cocky, as are alot of people. But his delivery of his character is completely unique. Don't be saying bullshit like he's a dime a dozen or something to that extent when he clearly isn't.

[Guest GreatOne]

Ever heard "Your ass is grass and I'm gonna smoke it" before?

 

I'll leave RVD alone when people stop overrating him beyond all hell.

[CanadianChick 0]

Ever heard "Your ass is grass and I'm gonna smoke it" before?

 

I'll leave RVD alone when people stop overrating him beyond all hell.

Ever heard Rob say that in WWE? Oh right, he hasn't.

[Angle-plex 0]

I mean, RVD or Bradshaw...yeah that's a tough pick.

 

Hell, Bradshaw's been bustin' his ass in WWE for eight years. RVD has yet to put together one--solid anyway.

Bradshaw's been busting his ass for eight years, and people STILL don't give a damn about him. RVD was there for a few months and was more over than ANYONE in the company. That's much more impressive.

[The Niggardly King 0]

RVD should never be more than somebodys sidekick. Like a Face Champion's best friend.

 

Should he Main Event sometimes... yes, but if he ever gets the belt, then he should just be a Transtional Champ.

[Guest GreatOne]

RVD was there for a few months and was more over than ANYONE in the company. That's much more impressive.

 

Yeah it's called NOVELTY. Add in that he was probably the only person that benefitted from the InVasion. Once that ended he was done whether you want to admit it or not

 

Ever heard Rob say that in WWE? Oh right, he hasn't.

 

Actually I was referring to everybody's favorite stoner with his own trademarked heat (aka get off my screen now) currently in rehab.

[CanadianChick 0]

RVD should never be more than somebodys sidekick. Like a Face Champion's best friend.

 

Should he Main Event sometimes... yes, but if he ever gets the belt, then he should just be a Transtional Champ.

Yeah, I pretty much agree. I'm not sure about the buddy thing, but he probably shouldn't be more than a transitional champion. Or course, if his reign is a success, go balls out.

[The Niggardly King 0]

RVD should never be more than somebodys sidekick. Like a Face Champion's best friend.

 

Should he Main Event sometimes... yes, but if he ever gets the belt, then he should just be a Transtional Champ.

Yeah, I pretty much agree. I'm not sure about the buddy thing, but he probably shouldn't be more than a transitional champion. Or course, if his reign is a success, go balls out.

His character type just screams out someone who would hang around with the champ a lot.

[Angle-plex 0]

RVD was there for a few months and was more over than ANYONE in the company. That's much more impressive.

 

Yeah it's called NOVELTY. Add in that he was probably the only person that benefitted from the InVasion. Once that ended he was done whether you want to admit it or not

That's not true, as he was really over in 2002 as well, and he COULD have been even more so had he gotten the same push JBL is getting.

 

And by your logic, we would have World Champion Test right now, since he has been in the company longer than Randy Orton. Is Randy just a novelty act, too?

[King Cucaracha 0]

Anyone else think Mike hates ECW? I dunno, it's just...this vibe he gives off sometimes. Maybe it's just me.

 

 

Anyway, RVD has become like a lot of other people since he's turned face...stale. He got over as a heel so he was turned face and sure enough, he's become stale. Just like Eddie, Cena, Rock, Austin etc. I mean, the basics are still there. But really, his character is a shell of it's former self. If you go back to that Summer Games Relay thing, the crowd popped for him...but gone are the days of RVD really interacting with the fans, talking himself up endlessly to the camera. Now, it's just 'hold arms out, grin, R...V...D, rinse repeat'.

 

If they were to turn him heel and keep him heel, even when/if the crowd react positively to him, then we'll talk. Until then, I really can't summon up the strength to give a damn about face RVD...not least as World Champion.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Mike does hate ECW. But hey, like the shirt said: "It's not for everyone."

 

Mike also hates liberals, fat people, Jeff Jarrett, Dutch Mantel, and Vince Russo. Yet he likes me, and I just hate Dutch Mantel and Jeff Jarrett. Go figure.

[Guest MikeSC]

Anyone else think Mike hates ECW? I dunno, it's just...this vibe he gives off sometimes. Maybe it's just me.

I have little patience for them. Incredibly overrated promotion. The MOST overrated promotion ever. Nothing has EVER approached their level of overratedness.

Anyway, RVD has become like a lot of other people since he's turned face...stale.

He was stale before then.

But really, his character is a shell of it's former self. If you go back to that Summer Games Relay thing, the crowd popped for him...but gone are the days of RVD really interacting with the fans, talking himself up endlessly to the camera. Now, it's just 'hold arms out, grin, R...V...D, rinse repeat'.

WWE cut out the stalling --- improving his matches immensely.

If they were to turn him heel and keep him heel, even when/if the crowd react positively to him, then we'll talk. Until then, I really can't summon up the strength to give a damn about face RVD...not least as World Champion.

It's not like he'd suddenly become less stale as a heat. His offense is far too weak for a heel to begin with.

-=Mike

[Angle-plex 0]

RVD could copy Foley's "anti-hardcore" gimmick and just do all restholds in his matches.

 

It would fit WWE style too.

[NYU 0]

I mean, RVD or Bradshaw...yeah that's a tough pick.

 

Hell, Bradshaw's been bustin' his ass in WWE for eight years. RVD has yet to put together one--solid anyway.

Not to get off-topic here, but:

 

Just how the hell has Bradshaw busted his ass for 8 years?

 

Up until the John Bradshaw Leyfield character created in April, the guy has pretty much done jack shit in his matches. Whether it be when he was a member of the New Blackjacks, the Acolytes, the A.P.A......just when the hell has he "busted his ass"?

 

For eight years, it's always been the same garbage with Bradshaw's matches. Power moves galore, without any shred of psychology to them. Subpar brawling that could be seen in independent federations all over the country. And, in many of these matches, an overall lethargic attitude. During these EIGHT years before he became JBL, give me one memorable match he has had. One match - whether it be singles OR tag - where you could point to it and say "Now THAT proved this guy should be a Main-Eventer."

 

The only time Bradshaw has shown any type of actual fire was when he was pushed on Raw in 2002 alongside Steve Austin and Ric Flair. And even then, his work was pure trash. To the point where WWE had to depush him, even against their high wishes to turn him into an actual somebody.

 

By my count, he's had THREE good matches. All of which were against Eddie Guerrero. His match against the Undertaker at SummerSlam was blah. Not awful, but certainly not too good.

 

Whether you like Rob Van Dam or hate him, I certainly think you could find more than THREE good matches in the last eight years of his career. Both Bradshaw and RVD have gone against the same caliber of opponents in WWE - from Chris Benoit to Chris Jericho to Eddie Guerrero to The Undertaker to everyone in between. And I certainly find the RVD matches with these guys to be more memorable - and just overall better - than the ones Bradshaw has had with them.

 

Why is this even being argued?