Does RVD deserve a chance....

[humongous2002 0]

Most of you guys forget that in ECW RVD was quite good on the mic.  WWE has never had any concept of his character (namely an ultra cocky stoner who is confident in his abilities and belittles his opponents).  Since early 2002 RVD has played a cookie cutter face character for the most part, which isn't really him.

 

Why is this such a debate anyway?  I mean, RVD or Bradshaw...yeah that's a tough pick.

I, honestly, would take JBL. At least his character isn't bloody dull as dishwater.

-=Mike

...Who thinks JBL has been a good champ...

All your crediblity has gone out the window as soon as you start praising a joke of a wrestler like JBL, WWE knows how pathetic is JBL in the ring that they won't allow him to wrestle unless is a gimmicked p.p.v. match or him squashing a cruiserweight.

[Guest MikeSC]

Most of you guys forget that in ECW RVD was quite good on the mic.  WWE has never had any concept of his character (namely an ultra cocky stoner who is confident in his abilities and belittles his opponents).  Since early 2002 RVD has played a cookie cutter face character for the most part, which isn't really him.

 

Why is this such a debate anyway?  I mean, RVD or Bradshaw...yeah that's a tough pick.

I, honestly, would take JBL. At least his character isn't bloody dull as dishwater.

-=Mike

...Who thinks JBL has been a good champ...

All your crediblity has gone out the window as soon as you start praising a joke of a wrestler like JBL, WWE knows how pathetic is JBL in the ring that they won't allow him to wrestle unless is a gimmicked p.p.v. match or him squashing a cruiserweight.

Wow, my life is better now without the crushing burden of your respect to deal with. Thanks for removing that amazing bit of weight off my shoulders.

 

Funny, hearing RVD supporters discuss how WWE should do this and this to get him over --- but JBL needs gimmicks to get over.

 

STATEMENT: Spike Dudley could end up killing the CW division with his title run

-=Mike

[CanadianChick 0]

STATEMENT: Spike Dudley could end up killing the CW division with his title run

 

Pssst....wrong thread.

[Guest MikeSC]

STATEMENT: Spike Dudley could end up killing the CW division with his title run

 

Pssst....wrong thread.

Bah, they all look the same to me.

-=Mike

[Fökai 0]

Why is it that when RVD has been booked to lose in an important match in his WWE career, he seems to just completely dog it, bringing down the quality of the match tenfold?

 

I think that just may be the reason why he was never pushed beyond those few matches in 2002 (with Brock, HHH and HBK) and 2003 with Kane.

 

In 2001, the WWF had way too many wrestlers at the top of the card. At any given event, you could see 6 legitimate main-eventers. Hence, the brand split. It might've been worse for business to branch out in this method, but it created a few more spots for upper-midcarders to assume. When it came time for him to re-create himself and move into the main event, he decided to go in the opposite direction: he stuck with the same moveset, eliminated any type of psychology from his match with his offense consisting solely of kicks, made his opponents look stupid if they didn't focus on his lower body, then proceeded to no-sell ALL of that with his tired offense.

[CanadianChick 0]

Why is it that when RVD has been booked to lose in an important match, he seems to just completely dog it, bringing down the quality of the match tenfold?

 

I think that just may be the reason why he was never pushed beyond those few matches in 2002 (with Brock, HHH and HBK) and 2003 with Kane.

Out of curiousity, what matches?

[Fökai 0]

Why is it that when RVD has been booked to lose in an important match, he seems to just completely dog it, bringing down the quality of the match tenfold?

 

I think that just may be the reason why he was never pushed beyond those few matches in 2002 (with Brock, HHH and HBK) and 2003 with Kane.

Out of curiousity, what matches?

1. RAW - World title match with HBK, November 2002.

2. RAW - No. 1 contendership for HBK's title, December 2002. (with Michaels as the guest referee)

3. RAW - World title match with HHH, June 2003.

4. Any match with Brock.

5. Summerslam 2003 - Kane/RVD.

 

The first three matches meant more, while in the latter two's case, he could've latched on to his opponent and snuck into that spot.

[Guest GreatOne]

Not to get off-topic here, but:

 

You will anyway

 

One match - whether it be singles OR tag - where you could point to it and say "Now THAT proved this guy should be a Main-Eventer."

 

OK how about Public Enemy completely obliterated them and sent them back to the bingo hall or wherever the hell they went? But two things:

 

1)Bradshaw has ALWAYS been just a straight forward mauler.

 

2)You assume that if Brock had stayed and Big Show and Angle weren't hurt that he was still in line for a main event push.

 

I certainly think you could find more than THREE good matches in the last eight years of his career

 

Oh sure you could, where he was being carried. And the other five consisting of 'EC-Dub, EC-Dub, this is the greatest fucking match in the history of our sport. EC-fuckin-W!!!!!!!!!!'

 

And I certainly find the RVD matches with these guys to be more memorable

 

Good for you, doesn't mean he isn't overrated as all hell.

 

Why is this even being argued?

 

Maybe since you brought it up?

[King Cucaracha 0]

Anyone else think Mike hates ECW? I dunno, it's just...this vibe he gives off sometimes. Maybe it's just me.

I have little patience for them. Incredibly overrated promotion. The MOST overrated promotion ever. Nothing has EVER approached their level of overratedness.

Hey, that's no problem with me. Each to their own and all that. And, I agree people overrate it...which isn't to say I'm not a fan, but certainly not a diehard fan.

 

Anyway, RVD has become like a lot of other people since he's turned face...stale.

He was stale before then.

As a heel? Technically his last heel run was InVasion and that's when he was at his most valuable during his WWF/E tenure.

 

But really, his character is a shell of it's former self. If you go back to that Summer Games Relay thing, the crowd popped for him...but gone are the days of RVD really interacting with the fans, talking himself up endlessly to the camera. Now, it's just 'hold arms out, grin, R...V...D, rinse repeat'.

WWE cut out the stalling --- improving his matches immensely.

True. But he doesn't really need to stall anymore than Orton (hans in the air pose) or Jericho (the shuffle thingy) do to interact with the fans.

 

If they were to turn him heel and keep him heel, even when/if the crowd react positively to him, then we'll talk. Until then, I really can't summon up the strength to give a damn about face RVD...not least as World Champion.

It's not like he'd suddenly become less stale as a heat. His offense is far too weak for a heel to begin with.

-=Mike

As a heel, he'd be more likely to turn on his cocky persona which, if anything, is his strongest point. Of course, you're right about his offense. But there's nothing to stop him being a heel and using the same fancy-ass kicks he uses now. Just as long as he stops trying to use the forearm.

 

Oh sure you could, where he was being carried. And the other five consisting of 'EC-Dub, EC-Dub, this is the greatest fucking match in the history of our sport. EC-fuckin-W!!!!!!!!!!'

You see, at least Mike doesn't resort to this. Ever watch a ROH show? The exact same thing happens there. It's the same in other indie feds too. Don't make out that it's just an 'ECW thing'.

[Guest MikeSC]

As a heel? Technically his last heel run was InVasion and that's when he was at his most valuable during his WWF/E tenure.

His work there --- outside of Jericho doing one major league carry job at Unforgiven --- was a little better than his ECW work, simply because WWE toned down the stalling.

 

However, his work was hardly stellar then, either. The fans popped because a lot of them hadn't seen much of him --- and he makes an impressive first impression.

True. But he doesn't really need to stall anymore than Orton (hans in the air pose) or Jericho (the shuffle thingy) do to interact with the fans.

In ECW, he showed that when he's told "Go 30 minutes", he'll simply stall. Jericho and Orton, at the bare minimum, don't OBVIOUSLY stall in their matches. WWE has cleaned up his severely flawed style as well as possible --- but there just isn't enough substance there to make it work well.

As a heel, he'd be more likely to turn on his cocky persona which, if anything, is his strongest point. Of course, you're right about his offense. But there's nothing to stop him being a heel and using the same fancy-ass kicks he uses now. Just as long as he stops trying to use the forearm.

Nothing I've seen out of him --- not even his ECW work --- showed any ability to actually produce a character. In ECW, Alfonso did more to make him a heel than he did.

-=Mike