Anyone agree with me?

[SuperJerk 0]

I agree, they totally hotshotted this feud.

 

Meltzer says at wrestlingobserver.com:

 

--When you wake up with a few dozen e-mails all saying the same thing (they blew off 4-5 months worth of good programming in one fell swoop last night), it becomes clear about the story telling and lack thereof. I think they felt they needed something immediately and needed to get there right away. I knew it was going to be rushed, but until HHH came out and did that promo where he didn't hint there were any problems regarding Orton winning (current wrestling predictable storytelling swerve), I pretty much figured they were doing it in one night.

Meltzer is dead wrong about this.

 

Triple H's character has already been developed (mostly by in his fued with HBK) as someone who can turn on his friends at any minute. Using a character's past actions as a guide to his present actions IS good storytelling. It wouldn't be remotely realistic for HHH, as a character, to tolerate ANYONE as champ but himself for a long period on months. The audience would not buy Triple H being nice to Orton for an extended period of time because Triple H is such a well-established heel who values the title above everything else.

 

And "they blew off 4-5 months worth of good programming in one fell swoop last night"?

 

I honestly don't see anything good about dragging this out for months. The slow turn is way overplayed, and would get boring quickly.

 

The WWE did the right thing. They gave us something immediately exciting to look forward to, instead of the usual slow-turn crap they've already recently done, or are currently doing, with:

Jericho, Trish and Christian

Jericho and Edge

Lita and Matt

Triple H and Eugene

Eddie and Chavo

Lesnar and Angle

etc., etc., etc.

[Exslade ZX 0]

I find it funny that...(about no one in paticular) but that many, MANY people after reading reports and stuff..complained, and complained and complain..they can't believe Orton would win the title, and then they're gonna drag a long..'stupid' (in their minds) for months and months and months between him and HHH...and then BAM, storyline appears the next day, and those same people go, WTF are the WWE doing? They just blew months of storylines and that sucks...

 

 

I mean, if they hated the angle? Why are they mad they're getting it out of the way?

 

Yes, I actually don't believe the feud will extend all the way to Wrestlemania, I just have a feeling it will actually 'end' before WM. And not just, they have a few ppv matches and the big blowoff is at WM, I think it'll be at an earlier PPV, and one of them will end up on SD. As many have said, the Orton/cena confrontation wasn't for nothing Im' sure.

[dubq 0]

Am I the only who thinks that it would have been funny if Triple H, after turning his thumb down, pushed Randy Orton off of Batista's shoulders?

Or better yet.. DOOMSDAY DEVICE!!

[Guest Loss]

HHH didn't have to pretend to like the fact that Orton had the belt. He could openly be upset about it for months, with the allegiances of Flair and Batista questioned over time as well. The defenders of this angle keep mentioning that it's consistent with HHH's character, but what about Orton, the guy they're trying to get over? Orton suffers for what happened Monday night. He's going to have a harder time than ever getting pops, and I just hope he doesn't turn into Edge, where he starts getting resented.

 

The fans were in the process of turning Orton face, but that was so still so early that it needed more time to play out. By the time Orton got kicked out of Evolution, the fans should have been dying to see it. They could have done several "Are there problems in Evolution?" RAWs over time where it appears that Flair and HHH are on one side while Orton and Batista are on another. They finally come to blows, but Batista intervenes and then puts the exclamation point on Orton getting kicked out by attacking him along with the others.

 

The angle was well-executed, but had no real forethought. If the goal is to get Orton getting cheered, they should have worked all that out before making him the top guy, or they should have let that turn happen naturally over time. As it stands, Orton still has potential, but his entire push has been one of the most artificial in WWE history, and that's eventually going to come back and bite them in the ass.

[Guest M. Harry Smilac]

It was perfect timing.

 

The only thing I would have liked to make it more interesting was if HHH actually started giving a damn before Orton got the title or if he would have at least mentioned it a few times.

 

I went in to RAW with the mindset I would no longer tune in if they A.Didn't give Benoit the title back or B.Have Evolution turn on Randy

 

Thankfully they went with the latter because if the only thing we had to look forward to next week is the Kane wedding and Diva Search crap I wouldn't have even wasted my time.

[BHK 0]

I was going to comment on this, but Loss basically took the words out of my mouth.

 

 

Actually, prediction: The build up to Ornton/Cena as the main event of Wrestlemania XXII(or XXIII) lasts all of 3 weeks, with them having wrestled at least 3 times in the year beforehand.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Did HHH turn on Orton too soon? No, not at all. As a character, all HHH cares about is himself & being champion. So, if he needed to end a friendship to get a chance at 'his' belt, it'd make sense that he'd do it immediately.

 

Did Flair & Batista turn too soon? Hells yes. Like has been said previously, it should have been a "who sides with who" type of scenario, where both Flair & Batista maintain a 'friendship' with both HHH & Orton until a time that Evolution disbands. Why would Flair & Batista immediately side with HHH over Orton? It doesn't make sense.

 

/awaits the first "you still expect WWE writers to make sense?!?" response

[dubq 0]

Why would Flair & Batista immediately side with HHH over Orton? It doesn't make sense.

Well, A] because as it was said before in this thread, HHH is the leader. Flair and HHH have a relationship that goes back further than Evolution, and Flair has always been Batista's mentor ever since he came to Raw from Smackdown. HHH calls the shots so it only makes sense that the drones fall in line and follow him.

 

and B] personally, I feel that having a who-sides-with-who scenario doesn't establish Orton as a face. He needs the fans siding with him.. not Flair & Batista.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Did HHH turn on Orton too soon? No, not at all. As a character, all HHH cares about is himself & being champion. So, if he needed to end a friendship to get a chance at 'his' belt, it'd make sense that he'd do it immediately.

 

Did Flair & Batista turn too soon? Hells yes. Like has been said previously, it should have been a "who sides with who" type of scenario, where both Flair & Batista maintain a 'friendship' with both HHH & Orton until a time that Evolution disbands. Why would Flair & Batista immediately side with HHH over Orton? It doesn't make sense.

 

/awaits the first "you still expect WWE writers to make sense?!?" response

It makes perfect sense if you think about it. Who would you rather be friends with the up and coming 23 year old champion or the veteran that has been at the top of the WWE for years now? Considering Triple H pretty much created Evolution himself......that's who they went with. Plus, if you watched the NWA when the Horsemen were around, anytime they turned on anyone they would ALWAYS side with Flair aka the leader of their group.

[CanadianChick 0]

Am I the only who thinks that it would have been funny if Triple H, after turning his thumb down, pushed Randy Orton off of Batista's shoulders?

Or better yet.. DOOMSDAY DEVICE!!

I think Orton would have seen it coming if Triple H slowly made his way to the top rope...

[dubq 0]

Am I the only who thinks that it would have been funny if Triple H, after turning his thumb down, pushed Randy Orton off of Batista's shoulders?

Or better yet.. DOOMSDAY DEVICE!!

I think Orton would have seen it coming if Triple H slowly made his way to the top rope...

..that's why it'd be funny.

[Slingshot Suplex 0]

My first RAW (well, last half of RAW) I get to see in ages and I really liked the turn against Orton. Like many, I was surprised it happened this quickly but it does make sense at least.

 

One way they could have prolonged the time before the turn was that ,since they played up the youngest champ bit, HHH is ok with Orton winning because he figures Randy's youth and inexperience will catch up with him and he'll drop the title to someone like Benoit again in a short period of time. When that doesn't happen, HHH starts getting antsy and frustrated and then they drum Orton out of the group.

 

But I'm fine with the way things went down. Watching HHH with a smile on his face saying "You're the man!" and then his face becoming sullen and repeating it.....I just said "Uh-oh" . That whole last half hour of RAW was some great tv.

[nl5xsk1 0]

It makes perfect sense if you think about it. Who would you rather be friends with the up and coming 23 year old champion or the veteran that has been at the top of the WWE for years now? Considering Triple H pretty much created Evolution himself......that's who they went with. Plus, if you watched the NWA when the Horsemen were around, anytime they turned on anyone they would ALWAYS side with Flair aka the leader of their group.

DK, I agree that it'd have made sense for Flair to side with HHH, but not necessarily for Batista to. Why wouldn't he - in a real-life scenario - side with his peer, who he'd probably have more in common with, rather than side with people from a different generation (including someone old enough to be his father in Flair)?

[Guest Loss]

You're all considering HHH's motives here, which gets considered enough, but what about Orton? Doing this as quickly as they did does him no favors.

[Guest Brian]

I was sorta hoping they'd have Benoit get up at the end, clean house, then punch out Orton, as a way of keeping Orton from going full-blown babyface and maybe deflecting the Triple H/Orton feud for a while, to help their original plan. Benoit's going to get lost in the mix in this, so it'd help him out. They could actually use Batista and Flair as total lackeys, with Trips putting them up against Orton in non-title situations, putting some pressure on the other cracks in Evolution. Shoot the title on Triple H in a cheap way in November or December, and build Orton up for the big Mania win, and break up Evolution afterwards, as Batista and Flair see HHH was using them (put Flair in the manager role for Batista).

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

It makes perfect sense if you think about it.  Who would you rather be friends with the up and coming 23 year old champion or the veteran that has been at the top of the WWE for years now?  Considering Triple H pretty much created Evolution himself......that's who they went with.  Plus, if you watched the NWA when the Horsemen were around, anytime they turned on anyone they would ALWAYS side with Flair aka the leader of their group.

DK, I agree that it'd have made sense for Flair to side with HHH, but not necessarily for Batista to. Why wouldn't he - in a real-life scenario - side with his peer, who he'd probably have more in common with, rather than side with people from a different generation (including someone old enough to be his father in Flair)?

One simple reason....to be cool with the big dog. It's that simple. If Bautista wanted to skyrocket into wrestling fame......who would be a better person to roll with? That is the only reason it was justified. Plus, they are patterning them after the four horseman and they ALWAYS backed their leader(aka Flair) just like the Evolution members were doing here.

[nl5xsk1 0]

I definitely agree with the 4H comparison ... because it's just so obvious that that's the exact thing that HHH is patterning this whole Evolution thing after. With himself cast in the Flair (leader) role.

 

*My problem with it is that I'm thinking like it's real, and what someone would do in real life. **Regardless of what HHH (or Flair) did in the past, at this moment it's Orton that is supposed to be considered the best in the business, so if Batista wanted to be cool with the big dog, he'd actually stay with Orton.

 

(*yes, I know wrestling's not real.)

(**yes, I know that Orton really isn't the best in the business, but was given the belt because of his relationship with HHH and to erase Lesnar as the youngest champ.)

[jester 0]

You're all considering HHH's motives here, which gets considered enough, but what about Orton? Doing this as quickly as they did does him no favors.

I think Loss is right here, unless they book this feud smart (and what are the odds of that?). In all probability, the next Raw will open with HHH blathering on for 20 minutes about why he did it, and then Orton might interrupt. Or they'll keep him off Raw to sell the injuries. That's a mistake.

 

Randy Orton should take the lead here, and come out and DEMAND HHH explain his actions, or cut a promo saying that HHH has made the biggest mistake of his life. In other words, he should be the prime mover of this feud. That will make the audience pay attention to him and think of him as important.

 

But it will probably be HHH saying "uh" and "you see" a lot for the first 20 minutes of the next few Raws. HHH will always act, Orton will react.