Guest Shoes Head Report post Posted September 9, 2004 Actually, my Christian statement played off of your Kane statement. My Jericho one was completely unrelated. Rebuttal: Ok. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted September 9, 2004 Statement: Randy Orton has gotten more of a "rub" from the WWE as champ in 3 weeks then Benoit did in six months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheLastBoyscout Report post Posted September 9, 2004 Statement: Randy Orton has gotten more of a "rub" from the WWE as champ in 3 weeks then Benoit did in six months. Not really. Benoit went over every major contender on the show with the exception of Orton himself. He beat Kane clean in a match where the odds were heavily against him, whereas Orton's recent victory over Kane makes him look weak by comparison. It won't be till Unforgiven that we get a true comparison. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Mandarin 0 Report post Posted September 9, 2004 Statement: Randy Orton has gotten more of a "rub" from the WWE as champ in 3 weeks then Benoit did in six months. Rebuttal: I'd say that's exaggerating it a little bit, but if they continue to push Randy's title reign as much as they have been doing, by the end of the month I would agree. Randy's been getting more focus than Benoit did, and he'll probably come out of his title reign looking stronger. Randy hasn't beat as many people cleanly as Benoit did, but that could soon change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted September 9, 2004 Statement: I am sick and tired of the "At least its somebody new" response in respect to the current champion. I would rather watch a spot monkey with the flippy floppy moveset as the Champion of Champions instead of the "Ohhhhh he is improving everyday" green champion who is on Raw at the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Australian Pride 0 Report post Posted September 9, 2004 Statement: Randy Orton has gotten more of a "rub" from the WWE as champ in 3 weeks then Benoit did in six months. Rebuttal: And with good reason. Disregarding the fact that he is HHH's protege, he is easily a better prospect for the role of company flagbearer than Benoit. Not as good at the in-ring stuff for sure, but he has a better look, more charisma, is younger, and is someone the company feels can carry them into the next decade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted September 9, 2004 But his promos suck. Like, really, really, really bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted September 9, 2004 All the more reason to hold back. Orton's far from ready and he only has time on his side (barring serious injury). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted September 9, 2004 STATEMENT: The porn star gimmick is not responsible for destroying Val Venis's career. He was doing just fine in 2000 before being dumped in RTC for no reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted September 9, 2004 Rebuttal: He was doing fine, and I agree with you on that part of his career. But when he went from Sean Morley back to the Porn Star Gimmick, that was the end of the road. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted September 9, 2004 Rebuttal: Disagreed. The porn star gimmick was limiting. It's pretty easy to figure out why - do you think Vince would want a Porn Star to hold the big belt? ".. and your new WWF champion is Val Venis"? It was a short term thing, over as a midcard act, but it ran its course by 2000 and Val was in limbo. They weren't able to successfully transition him out of the gimmick into something with more growth potential and he has stayed in limbo ever since. How one could call his Trish Stratus run "doing just fine" is beyond me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted September 9, 2004 Rebuttal: I meant in that he was given the porn star gimmick and that the porn star label would always be attached to him for the rest of his career even after he changes gimmicks (ala Red Rooster). I don't mean that he should have been pushed as the porn star. I mean that he could have survived it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted September 9, 2004 I'd say that's more because of his general success in the "peak" period time and he's getting the left-over cheers from the fans who see him and go "Oh, he used to be popular we should clap!". The gimmick itself isn't even a gimmick anymore. He hasn't released any videos or made reference to being a porn star in a very, very, very long time. He's just a sleazy ladies man now. And it's not enough to survive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheLastBoyscout Report post Posted September 10, 2004 I don't see a problem with the original incarnation of the Val Venis gimmick. It was simply the logical extension of the Rick Rude/Shawn Michaels "ladies' man" heel. If they wanted him to get over they should have just continued with his push at No Mercy 1999 and had him get a win over The Rock. Tone down the actual "porn" elements and play up the "your girlfriend wants me" he's about as good as Rude was on the stick and that cheap heat stuff never gets old. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
what 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 But his promos suck. Like, really, really, really bad. As opposed to Chris Benoit's promos which set the world on fire! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Doesn't change the fact that Benoit cuts better promo's then Orton. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Benoit cuts much better promos than Orton. By no means great promos, but it didn't feel like he was reading from a cue card and he wasn't pretending to be The Rock. Benoits promos were sufficient for selling his matches, he just rarely ever got a chance to do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheLastBoyscout Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Orton came across as funny last week. Plus I dug the quasi-shoot elements of the promo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 I think Benoit can do some incredible sports-style promo's, as was evident by his work just before the 2003 Rumble. Benoit's problem is that he can't do great SE promo's, which I think is probably down to him not being able to take it seriously, for whatever reason, and it's that seriousness that makes his sports-style promo's so great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
what 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Doesn't change the fact that Benoit cuts better promo's then Orton. No, he doesn't. Benoit's mic skills are perhaps the worst in the company. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Hmmmm. Lemme think here. Yeah, you're wrong on that one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Benoit's promos aren't entertaining, but as MEer they don't have to be. They just have to sell the match. "Triple-H. You-are-a-tough-guy. But. I-am-tough-too. With-Conviction... I mean... I-WILL-BEAT-YOU-AT-UN-FOR-GIVEN." - Randy Orton. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 But his promos suck. Like, really, really, really bad. As opposed to Chris Benoit's promos which set the world on fire! A decent promo by Benoit was him doing the nose-to-nose staredown than bitch smacking his opponet with extreme prejudice. Orton: ooooh ooooh ahhhh ahhh Todd Grisham: I see Orton: shhhhhh Todd: whaaa? Orton: Finally the Pebble has come back too.... Todd: from rehab? Orton: hahaha no The Pebble's Chump has cum back from Todd: the shower with HHH Orton: oooh ooooh ahhh ahhh Todd: there you have it fans Randy Orton got his push in the same manner that Tommy Rich did. Orton: *Enzyte grin* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
what 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Hmmmm. Lemme think here. Yeah, you're wrong on that one. Benoit is a mushmouth and I've never seen him cut a good promo. Don't give me this "intensity" bullshit. All he can say is "I am going to beat you in our next match." He can't get a storyline over or convey any emotions whatsoever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Niggardly King 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Hmmmm. Lemme think here. Yeah, you're wrong on that one. Benoit is a mushmouth and I've never seen him cut a good promo. Don't give me this "intensity" bullshit. All he can say is "I am going to beat you in our next match." He can't get a storyline over or convey any emotions whatsoever. Orton is more of a mushmouth than Benoit, he messes up more words than Benoit, when he tries to look cocky, it just looks like he's trying to be The Rock, while Benoit has something that sets him aside from anyone else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Just because you've never seen Benoit cut a good promo doesn't mean said promo's don't exist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Australian Pride 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 I thought Benoit was doing a good job with his promos in and around Backlash, but it fell away after that, which I think is the fault of both him and the writers. For example, after he beat Kane at Bad Blood he just kept repeating 'Chris Benoit is for real'. To say it once, maybe twice, would have been fine, but he said it 3/4 times, and said nothing of note in between. That cant just be the writers fault. Orton ain't the best either, but he is a lot younger than Benoit so i would hold more hope for him becoming a real good promo guy. HHH was crap at promo's when he first had the World title as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
what 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Orton is more of a mushmouth than Benoit, he messes up more words than Benoit, when he tries to look cocky, it just looks like he's trying to be The Rock, while Benoit has something that sets him aside from anyone else. I'm not saying that Orton's good on the mic but he's going to improve as time goes on. Just look at how he's improved in the ring recently. And yeah, Benoit sets himself apart from everybody else. When he talks, you cringe and think about how bad he is on the mic. Way to set yourself apart, Chris. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord of The Curry 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Are you going to actually, ya know, elaborate on your points or just continue to look like a mook and say "Benoit is bad."? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Niggardly King 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 I'm not saying that Orton's good on the mic but he's going to improve as time goes on. Just look at how he's improved in the ring recently. And yeah, Benoit sets himself apart from everybody else. When he talks, you cringe and think about how bad he is on the mic. Way to set yourself apart, Chris. I don't cringe when Benoit talks, hell, I listen more to Benoit than anyone else because he's not gonna bring the gay WWE comedy, and he's not gonna take ten minutes to let you know what he plans to do Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
