MoveOn's New Ads

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

What does she say?...

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

She picks up some Republican hitchhiker and blabbers on about this and that while the Republican sits there silently.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

http://www.blogsforbush.com/mt/images/infographicfull.jpg

That was a joke, right? I LOLed damn hard when I saw they threw in the Hitler ads. The mobster connected to one guy with no political connection whatsoever made it feel like one of those Onion infographs.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Republican hitchhiker? WTF?!

 

We're the party with the gas-guzzling SUVs...

[Vyce 0]

Tony Snow looked like he was about to throw up at the image of Cho in lingerie on the O'Reilly Factor tonight.

Oh Jesus.

 

You might as well just stick Samo Hung in lingerie then, because it would be the SAME thing.

 

(Except he's Chinese and she's not)

 

Just as awful though.

[Guest MikeSC]

http://www.blogsforbush.com/mt/images/infographicfull.jpg

That was a joke, right? I LOLed damn hard when I saw they threw in the Hitler ads. The mobster connected to one guy with no political connection whatsoever made it feel like one of those Onion infographs.

Ironically enough, those actually had more definite ties than the NYT hit piece. Isn't that sad?

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I'm going to have to print that for some people, Mike. Seeing someone pretend this is even fair is a hoot.

 

I just love the MoveOn Hitler Ads that were included in the table for no reason (they're linked to two people who are already linked to one another) and the Mafia Hitman who has no ties to any politicians but was only included so we could Six Degrees of John Kerry with mafiosos.

[Guest MikeSC]

I'm going to have to print that for some people, Mike. Seeing someone pretend this is even fair is a hoot.

No less fair than the NY Times graph. If you want an unfair one, I can give you one.

I just love the MoveOn Hitler Ads that were included in the table for no reason (they're linked to two people who are already linked to one another) and the Mafia Hitman who has no ties to any politicians but was only included so we could Six Degrees of John Kerry with mafiosos.

No dissimilar to "Bush knew about 9/11", etc.

 

There is STRONG evidence of a lot of overlapping between the Dems, Kerry, and their 527's.

 

BTW, Bush and McCain are filing a suit to try and ban 527's. While I don't agree with it --- I don't see Kerry joining the fray.

-=Mike

[jesse_ewiak 0]

Here's the thing Mike. MoveOn PAC is, as the name suggests, is a...wait, here it comes... a PAC! Otherwise known as a... POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE. As all smart well-informed people out here in America, we understand that PACs have nothing to do with the "shadowy 527s" we keep hearing about. PACs have very strict donation limits and timely financial disclosure requirements. Individuals can't give more than 5 grand in a calendar year to it, and there are overall PAC contribution limits as well.

 

Also, I've never seen a MoveOn ad played the 8,567.456 times on CNN,MSNBC, and FOX like I saw the Swift Boat Ads. But I know, all the networks expect FOX all want Bush to crash and burn because they're all evil liberals.

[Guest MikeSC]

Here's the thing Mike. MoveOn PAC is, as the name suggests, is a...wait, here it comes... a PAC! Otherwise known as a... POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE.

Actually, almost ALL of the money is with the 527 side --- which is very much there. Check out opensecrets.

As  all smart well-informed people out here in America, we understand that PACs have nothing to do with the "shadowy 527s" we keep hearing about. PACs have very strict donation limits and timely financial disclosure requirements. Individuals can't give more than 5 grand in a calendar year to it, and there are overall PAC contribution limits as well.

Explain why moveon.org's 527 has SO MUCH MORE money spent than the PAC (moveon's PAC: $853,830; 527: $17,435,782)

 

Mind you, technically, moveon.org's 527 has only officially raised a shade over $9M.

 

Also, mind you, $853,000 wouldn't cover such things as the book they released, the costs of the web site,lobbying Congress, and TV ads -- so it's definitely not all from the PAC. Which means that they have considerable overlap.

 

Explain how a company under BOTH headings doesn't have MASSIVE coordination, as it defies logic. Explain why so many executives in the DNC helped found these groups.

 

Go ahead.

Also, I've never seen a MoveOn ad played the 8,567.456 times on CNN,MSNBC, and FOX like I saw the Swift Boat Ads. But I know, all the networks expect FOX all want Bush to crash and burn because they're all evil liberals.

No, it's because moveon's ads are so bad and moronic that the media would be too embarrassed to even play it.

 

Watch them. They're so patently false and amateurish that nobody even REMOTELY can buy.

-=Mike

[Jobber of the Week 0]

No dissimilar to "Bush knew about 9/11", etc.

I asked for information and you gave me bullshit because someone once said Bush knew. Great.

 

There is STRONG evidence of a lot of overlapping between the Dems, Kerry, and their 527's.

Evidence without assassins and Hitler involved? Then let's hear it.

[Guest MikeSC]

No dissimilar to "Bush knew about 9/11", etc.

I asked for information and you gave me bullshit because someone once said Bush knew. Great.

Actually, I gave you more actual info than the NY Times did. Scary.

There is STRONG evidence of a lot of overlapping between the Dems, Kerry, and their 527's.

Evidence without assassins and Hitler involved? Then let's hear it.

Hmm, Moveon.org and the DNC co-ordinated a petition drive to oppose Bush's judicial nominees in 2003.

 

Harold Ickes is on the executive committee of the DNC WHILE he raised money and founded ACT.

 

Joe Sandler is the DNC's General Counsel AND a lawyer for moveon.org (which, using the Ginsberg precedent, is proof of co-ordination).

 

Bill Richardson was chairman of the Convention AND advisor to New Democrat Network, a 527.

 

That's just a QUICK overview of Democrat/527 overlap.

-=Mike

...And, yes, Kerry and ACT share a lawyer, too...

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Hmm, Moveon.org and the DNC co-ordinated a petition drive to oppose Bush's judicial nominees in 2003.

When Kerry was viewed as dead meat in the race. I fail to see how that connects him.

 

Harold Ickes is on the executive committee of the DNC WHILE he raised money and founded ACT.

Source?

 

Joe Sandler is the DNC's General Counsel AND a lawyer for moveon.org (which, using the Ginsberg precedent, is proof of co-ordination).

That connects the Democrats, but not Kerry (and remember that Ginsberg represented the Bush campaign, not the GOP, and thus the reason he was dropped was because Bush is trying to distance himself.)

 

Bill Richardson was chairman of the Convention AND advisor to New Democrat Network, a 527.

I think he appeared in some TV ads for them to attract Latino votes?

 

...And, yes, Kerry and ACT share a lawyer, too...

I'll pass on this one until you can come up with a name or some evidence.

[Guest MikeSC]

Hmm, Moveon.org and the DNC co-ordinated a petition drive to oppose Bush's judicial nominees in 2003.

When Kerry was viewed as dead meat in the race. I fail to see how that connects him.

 

 

Doesn't change the fact that there was co-ordination.

Harold Ickes is on the executive committee of the DNC WHILE he raised money and founded ACT.

Source?

Democratic money man isn't officially for Kerry

By DENNIS B. RODDY

BLOCK NEWS ALLIANCE

 

BOSTON - His father was a famous diarist in Franklin Roosevelt administration, but the only literature Harold Ickes practices is polite fiction - a genre printed on checks, which he smuggles deftly past the edges of the campaign finance laws.

 

His two groups, The Media Fund and America Coming Together, are not campaigning for John Kerry. They are simply trying to get him elected.

 

Mr. Ickes glided into the Four Seasons Hotel for a press conference yesterday along with ACT co-founder Ellen Malcom, ACT director Steve Rosenthal, and Erik Smith, who now runs The Media Fund. The quartet announced plans to spend $125 million on door-to-door voter outreach.

 

Paid ACT staff and volunteers on loan from the Service Employees International Union will prowl the streets in 17 states, Pennsylvania and Ohio among them. They will ask people if they plan to vote and, if the voters do not flee in time, will show them a 16-second video spot on a hand-held computer. The Media Fund, Mr. Ickes' other creation, already has spent $27 million on TV spots attacking President Bush's record.

 

Under federal election law, ACT and The Media Fund may protest as boisterously as they wish against Bush so long as they do not advocate for John Kerry. During their hour-long press conference, Mr. Ickes and his partners left little doubt that, should they inadvertently cause Mr. Kerry to win the presidency, they will require all of four seconds to get over the mistake.

 

Because his group is officially nonpartisan, there are weird distances Mr. Ickes must keep. He wore no Kerry button. When Tad Devine, a top Kerry fund-raiser saw him, he approached with a sheepish grin, as if physical contact might set off the hotel sprinkler system.

 

"Can I touch you?" Mr. Devine asked. "I'm not toxic," Mr. Ickes replied.

 

The Republicans consider him an ethical Superfund site. They have sued twice to stop Mr. Ickes. They have cried foul so loudly that umpires have rushed to the scene. Mr. Ickes was Bill Clinton's deputy chief of staff and, hence, much of his time was spent in courtrooms, where litigants used him to chum the sharks.

 

"During that time I was served 37 subpoenas. I testified under oath 34 times - six of them were before federal grand juries. What they're doing now? That's easy," he said.

 

As a member of the Democratic National Committee, Mr. Ickes is attending the convention as a super delegate. As the grand duke of two fictionally nonpartisan political action committees, he has come to recycle the donors who have already reached the legal limit for giving to John Kerry and the DNC. Federal election regulations limit individual donations to $2,000 for the Kerry campaign and $25,000 for the Democratic National Committee.

 

Donations to Mr. Ickes' groups are limited only by the number of zeroes that can fit on a check.

 

"We think most donors have maxed out on their federal contributions," Mr. Ickes said. "We are the backbone of the on-the-ground operations here."

 

It is unlikely many of them will ever touch the ground. The Four Seasons is one of those opulent, overbuilt places with faux marble in the bathrooms and a line of uniformed greeters at the front lobby. Some of them appear to have been hired solely to smile at people.

 

In a large room on the second floor, the DNC Finance Committee was rewarding big donors and fund-raisers with convention hall passes. Karen Kruse, a fund-raiser from Phoenix, and her friend, Ana Ma, were in line.

 

"I was in Phoenix. We did an event - half a million," Ms. Kruse said. That was one night. Now, with some wealthy donors unable to give more to the DNC, they can give to its shadow, who was standing in the hallway outside that room explaining that, even if the law is silly, it's the law, as decided in 1976 in footnote 52 of the Buckley decision. The Supreme Court ruled that an ostensibly independent committee may raise and dispense all the money it likes so long as there is no direct advocacy. Thus was born the art of the political sideswipe.

 

"You could say hogwash and I wouldn't disagree with you for saying hogwash," Mr. Ickes said. "But that is what the United States Supreme Court has said."

 

And to think we trusted those people to choose a president four years ago.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...mplate=printart

Joe Sandler is the DNC's General Counsel AND a lawyer for moveon.org (which, using the Ginsberg precedent, is proof of co-ordination).

That connects the Democrats, but not Kerry (and remember that Ginsberg represented the Bush campaign, not the GOP, and thus the reason he was dropped was because Bush is trying to distance himself.)

1) DNC cannot coordinate with 527's EITHER. It is very much illegal.

2) Ginsberg quit on his own accord and, flat out, said that nobody in the Bush campaign had anything to do with it.

Bill Richardson was chairman of the Convention AND advisor to New Democrat Network, a 527.

I think he appeared in some TV ads for them to attract Latino votes?

Amazingly enough, that is illegal. You know, the whole no coordination rules.

...And, yes, Kerry and ACT share a lawyer, too...

I'll pass on this one until you can come up with a name or some evidence.

Robert Bauer.

I bolded the relevant part for you:

Bush Campaign's Top Outside Lawyer Advised Veterans Group

By JIM RUTENBERG and KATE ZERNIKE

 

The Bush campaign's top outside lawyer said Tuesday that he had given legal advice to the group of veterans attacking Senator John Kerry's Vietnam War record and antiwar activism in a book, television commercials and countless appearances on cable news programs.

 

The lawyer, Benjamin L. Ginsberg, said that the group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, called him last month to ask for his help and that he agreed. Mr. Ginsberg said that he had yet to work out payment details with the group and that he might consider doing the work pro bono.

 

Mr. Ginsberg, the chief outside counsel to the Bush-Cheney re-election effort, agreed to an interview after several telephone calls to him and the campaign's asking that he explain his role. He said that he was helping the group comply with campaign finance rules and that his work was entirely separate from his work for the president. President Bush has called for an end to advertising by all groups like that of the Swift boat veterans, called 527's for the section of the tax code that created them.

 

The campaign of Senator John Kerry shares a lawyer, Robert Bauer, with America Coming Together, a liberal group that is organizing a huge multimillion-dollar get-out-the-vote drive that is far more ambitious than the Swift boat group's activities. Mr. Ginsberg said his role was no different from Mr. Bauer's

 

Mr. Bush's campaign aides have repeatedly said they have no connection to the group, almost all of whose challenges to Mr. Kerry and his war record have been contradicted by official war records and even some of its members' own past statements.

 

Scott Stanzel, a Bush spokesman, said, "There has been no coordination at any time between Bush-Cheney '04 and any 527."

 

Mr. Ginsberg, a prominent elections lawyer, was a senior lawyer for the Bush organization in the Florida recount after the 2000 election and was once general counsel to the Republican National Committee. He said he had no involvement in the message or strategy of the Swift boat group and said he had no reason to believe that Mr. Bush knew of his involvement.

 

"The truth is there are very few lawyers who work in this area,'' Mr. Ginsberg said. "It's sort of natural that people do come to the few of us for the work. What happened was a month or so ago some decorated Vietnam vets came to me and said: 'We have an important point of view to enter into the debate. There's a new law that's complicated, and we want help complying with the law.' "

 

He added, "I have given them some legal compliance advice."

 

Mr. Kerry has gone on the offensive over the group's activities, saying it is "a front" for Mr. Bush's campaign and repeatedly calling on the president to repudiate an advertisement from the group attacking his record. Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican who is also a decorated war veteran, has also called on Mr. Bush to repudiate the spots.

 

The 527 groups are allowed to raise and spend unlimited amounts of money as long as they do not coordinate their activities with federal campaigns or political parties. Campaign finance rules do not prohibit lawyers from working for both outside groups and campaigns because they are not considered strategists.

 

Mr. Bush has declined to take on the group directly but repeated this week that he believed that all outside groups should stop advertising.

 

Mr. Ginsberg had been at the forefront of pressing the legal case against Democratic 527's, which have spent more than $60 million on advertisements against Mr. Bush.

 

In complaints against the groups, Republican lawyers have noted that Harold M. Ickes, who has helped raise money for and organize America Coming Together and the Media Fund, both 527 groups, is also on the executive committee of the Democratic National Committee.

 

The chairman of the Democratic convention, Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico, has been an adviser to another 527 group, the New Democrat Network. And Jim Jordan, a spokesman for the Media Fund, was Mr. Kerry's campaign manager until he resigned in November.

 

Mr. Ginsberg said he decided to help Republican groups after the Federal Election Commission declined to imposed strict rules on the 527 groups in May.

 

"At that point,'' he said, "I was more than happy to help all Republican groups comply with the law so that there wasn't unilateral disarmament."

 

An occasional collaborator with Mr. Ginsberg, Chris LaCivita, is also working for the group, advising on media strategy. Mr. LaCivita was political director of the National Republican Senatorial Committee in 2002 and now works for the DCI Group, a Washington political strategy firm whose partners include Charles Francis, a longtime friend of President Bush from Texas and Tom Synhorst, an adviser to the Bush campaign in 2000, who was an architect of the campaign's effort in the Iowa caucuses.

 

Mr. LaCivita said yesterday that he worked as a private contractor for DCI and Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and that there was no coordination between the firm and the group.

 

"Obviously, I don't work for the Bush campaign," he said.

 

Mr. LaCivita described his role as providing advice on the news media and placing advertisements. Asked to describe how close his involvement was or how Mr. Ginsberg was involved, Mr. LaCivita referred calls to a spokesman for Swift Boat Veterans, which declined to comment.

 

Mr. LaCivita and Mr. Ginsberg have also been involved with Progress for America, a group that calls itself the leading organization pushing a conservative agenda. Mr. Ginsberg did not say how frequently he consulted with the group.

 

This is the second time in recent days that an individual associated with Mr. Bush's campaign has acknowledged working with Swift Boat Veterans. On Sunday, the campaign confirmed an accusation first made by Mr. Kerry's campaign that Kenneth Cordier, a retired colonel who appears in the second of two commercials by the group, had been a member of the Bush campaign's veterans' advisory committee. The campaign said that it had not known that Mr. Cordier, a volunteer, was going to be in the spot and that he had resigned as a result of it.

 

Mr. Kerry's campaign filed a complaint last week with the Federal Election Commission about collaboration between Mr. Bush's campaign and the Swift Boat Veterans, activities that would violate the laws for the 527's.

 

Swift Boat Veterans portrays itself as an organic group opposed to Mr. Kerry. Yesterday, the chairman of the Federal Election Commission defended the group's right to advertise. But it has gradually acknowledged ties to people close to the Republican Party and Mr. Bush's campaign.

 

"It's another piece of evidence of the ties between the Bush campaign and this group," Chad Clanton, a spokesman for Mr. Kerry, said. Asked about his campaign's use of shared lawyers, Mr. Clanton said, "If the Bush campaign truly disapproved of this smear, their top lawyer wouldn't be involved.''

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/25/politics...print&position=

-=Mike