Michrome's article from the Observer

[JoeDirt 0]

Credit: Wrestlingobserver.com

 

On April 9th, 2004 TNA pulled its signed wrestlers from Ring Of Honor, because Cary Silkin would not sign a document that would make him "personally liable" if Rob Feinstein was really still with the company. The TNA story was that they felt a relationship with a company owned by Feinstein would hurt their business. Doug Gentry signed, Silkin didn't, so the TNA stars were pulled.

 

Fast forward to late June, Cary Silkin buys Rob's portion of Ring Of Honor, and severs all ties with RF Video. Everyone started to think about the potential returns of AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels to Ring Of Honor. Bill Behrens told Gabe Sapolsky it would be no problem once the split was finalized. Ring Of Honor sent all the paperwork to TNA, as requested, shortly after the split was finalized.

 

Fast forward again to today, a week from a show in Boston, and 3 weeks out from Elizabeth: Christopher Daniels and AJ Styles are still not back in Ring Of Honor. Alex Shelley, despite being signed by TNA, can work Ring Of Honor. Chad Collyer can too. TNA has offered ROH other minor names too, but they will not allow AJ Styles, Chris Daniels, or anyone they percieve to be a big name to work ROH. This may or may not include Chris Sabin, not that Sapolsky wants him back anyway. Current word is that Red may be allowed back, since TNA doesn't see him as much of a star anymore.

 

It looks as though the debate that raged in April has been settled. Those of us aware of TNA's long-standing paranoia about ROH believed this was all a fraud when it went down, and that this was just a great excuse to hurt a company they saw as a force taking away their thunder. They had earlier asked AJ Styles and Chris Daniels to split ways with ROH voluntarily, and both said no, so they came up with the contract.

 

Shortly after TNA pulled its talent from Ring Of Honor, Jeff Jarrett had a long meeting with AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels, where he promised they could return if Cary Silkin would sign that contract, and/or legally prove Feinstein was gone. Well, Rob is gone now for sure, and those guys aren't back. In the week leading up to the 7/17 Rexplex ROH show, Gabe put in multiple calls to TNA, but Jarrett returned none of them. It was around this time that everyone started realizing that maybe it wasn't going to be so easy after all. Chris Daniels cleared his schedule for ROH 8/7, and told people privately that he expected to return to ROH on that day. All the way up until that day, ROH tried to get him cleared to work their show, and TNA wouldn't do it. Bob Ryder said on his website in April that if ROH would ever sign that document in the future, all the TNA guys could come back. Does that deal still hold up? No, it doesn't, because the contract was a red herring all along.

 

Their justification is that Gabe lied. Yes, you read that right. Because they think Gabe lied to them, they want him to admit he knew Feinstein was there all along, and was complicit in hiding his involvement. Reality is quite different, as Gabe/Cary were clearly moving towards a split with Feinstein after Gabe found out what was going on, and at worst told white lies to keep the company afloat while trying to remove Feinstein. If Gabe really knew all along, and was masterminding a grand conspiracy to allow Rob to continue profiting, why was he adamant about a complete split after the April emails where Rob said he was still involved? Are we really to believe that Gabe was complicit in protecting a man that forced him to cancel his wedding and almost killed ROH, even though they had been on bad terms for months? The story doesn't check out.

 

To ban your workers from working for any wrestling promoter that has lied is completely absurd, given the fact that all wrestling promoters have told lies, big or small.

 

The results and impact this has on the workers is even worse. Christopher Daniels now has nowhere to work on August 28th, because his H2 booking (which TNA signed him up for without asking him) was canceled, and TNA won't let him work the ROH show. When TNA was created, the whole idea was that they were offering 4 mid-week bookings on top of whatever you could do on the indies. Now workers like Daniels and Styles find themselves unable to work the indy that paid them best, all because of a one-sided dick waving contest.

 

The new TNA standard for guys who can or can't work ROH really has nothing to do with starpower in TNA, either. Chris Daniels is part of a midcard tag team with an extremely green partner. He has been in one major program, and he had his legs cut out from under him. He is nothing more than a middle-of-the-show Impact guy. If Alex Shelley gets to work ROH, Chris Daniels should too, but it's really all about hurting ROH, where Daniels is a big star.

 

On top of this, TNA continues to slash dates, and may even slash dates down to 3 per month. How sad is it that the supposed #2 in this country is so worried about an independent with no television? These people think they are going to compete with Vince? The workers that badly want to come back are powerless, and while it is certainly TNA's right to do what they're doing, they should come out and say what we all know is true: They jumped on the Feinstein situation because it was an opportunity to take the air out of Ring Of Honor, who they have been jealous of since day 1. It had nothing to do with a cable deal, public image, Silkin's signature, or any of that nonsense.

 

================

 

Interesting stuff...what do you guys think?

[Guest Staravenger]

Instead of starting an argument, I'll state the following for both promotions.

 

ROH: They have great workers, and put on a consistant basis very good shows.

 

TNA: They CAN have great matches because they use many good workers, but don't give them time to do so. Sloppy booking from three different people ruins it. Mantell sucks, Jarrett likes blend of old school and modern, and Russo is all about entertainment.

 

ROH: Whoever TNA contacted to sign a contract stating Feinstein was gone should've done so, but lied.

 

TNA: Now that ROH is RF-less, they are being bitches about it, and the whole thing probably had nothing to do with Feinstein.

[Magus 0]

I think its true that TNA is jealous of ROH. ROH is a much more successful, profitable, and they have a rabid fanbase. While this may all be on a "small scale", its still more than TNA has. TNA is NOT profitable, they could never survive on their own, and they don't have a core audience that will pay money to see them.

 

TNA tries too hard to be the #2 wrestling promotion, which is the cause of a lot of their problems. ROH just tries to be itself and they are a huge success because of it. I think Jarrett's cranky about this.

[Guest Staravenger]

ROH is far from profitable, but they lose less money than TNA, which really isn't anything to brag about (who lost more money that is).

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I think its true that TNA is jealous of ROH.  ROH is a much more successful, profitable, and they have a rabid fanbase.  While this may all be on a "small scale", its still more than TNA has.  TNA is NOT profitable, they could never survive on their own, and they don't have a core audience that will pay money to see them.

 

TNA tries too hard to be the #2 wrestling promotion, which is the cause of a lot of their problems.  ROH just tries to be itself and they are a huge success because of it.  I think Jarrett's cranky about this.

RoH isn't profitable either. They've been lying about their financial status for the most part. Silken became the majority owner when RoH couldn't meet payroll earlier this year.

 

And anything Michrome writes isn't worth a damn to me. He's a RoH mutant and he's proven just how illogical he is when defending them.

 

Comparing the companies is stupid anyway. They operate on such different levels that you can't compare them. RoH would be dead and buried if they had to spend the amount of money that TNA does. And TNA doesn't have near the PR disaster that RoH does.

[LucharesuFan619 0]

Gabe probably knew Rob was gay all along AND that he was with the company. Rob was AT THE RF VIDEO OFFICE WITH GABE at one point. How could he ever have not have known he was still with the company?

[Michrome 0]

Way to not adress a single point. Answer me this: If Feinstein is gone, and the guys were pulled because of Feinstein, why aren't they allowed back?

 

The RF situation was indeed a PR disaster. Outside of that though, their PR has been far better than TNA, a promotion that splits up its workers into small groups to tell them news they had read on websites for months, just so they aren't able to voice mass objections.

[Michrome 0]

Gabe probably knew Rob was gay all along AND that he was with the company. Rob was AT THE RF VIDEO OFFICE WITH GABE at one point. How could he ever have not have known he was still with the company?

 

The source of this story is Bob Barnette's "friend" who supposedly called RF Video and heard someone that sounded like Rob in the background. Rob wasn't even saying this the day he was trying to call everyone and say he was still involved. Again, it's very possible Gabe knew, as I acknowledge in the column. However, why would he all of a sudden decide that the companies HAD to split, out of nowhere? Why was Silken trademarking the name ROH earlier? There was clearly movement towards a split for a while. The idea that it was a grand Gabe/Doug/Rob conspiracy when Gabe and Rob hate each other is just ridiculous.

[LucharesuFan619 0]

The source of this story is Bob Barnette's "friend" who supposedly called RF Video and heard someone that sounded like Rob in the background.

I used to dislike Bob Barnett a lot and still do to a fair degree, but I've come to realize that he's very knowledgeable, and most of the time his "sources" are pretty damned accurate. I don't have much doubt when it comes to this, because as we all know - he was right all along about Feinstein.

[Michrome 0]

Not really, he was right that Feinstein was still involved, but it was his position that Gabe, Doug, and Rob were all in a big secret pact to keep Feinstein's involvement secret, and would try to keep it secret until the end of time.

[Guest SoCalTF]

Bob Barnett also wears kneepads to wrestling shows and somehow gets into shows for free. Kinda makes you wonder how he got to be so "tight" with Vampiro doesn't it?

[LucharesuFan619 0]

Bob Barnett also wears kneepads to wrestling shows and somehow gets into shows for free. Kinda makes you wonder how he got to be so "tight" with Vampiro doesn't it?

I think he gives Vamp and New Jack legal advice, which both guys need. I imagine he helped Vamp out with his divorce problems awhile back, and New Jack obviously needs help, LOL.

[Guest SoCalTF]

*Rolls eyes, throws arms in the air and walks away grunting"

[Guest LuckyLopez]

Just a couple of things that sprang to mind, if I may.

 

1) I of course have no idea why Styles and Daniels aren't working ROH and Shelley is. If TNA is keeping them back to hurt ROH (which is certainly well within the realm of possabilities) it does beg the question why Shelley is allowed. From what I can tell the full force of ROH was tossed behind Shelley when those two stars departed. He's clearly been groomed as ROH's next star and given a stable to go with it. He may not be on the level of Punk, Joe, Homicide, etc (and I honestly have no idea as I'm pretty much following ROH by reports and messageboards) but thee loss of Shelley would surely set ROH back and deliver a blow. If nothing it would certainly frustrate them, I imagine. So I am left wondering why TNA has a line as far as how much they want to be petty shits sabotaging other companies. The best thing I can think of is that TNA decided that pulling Shelley would be TOO obvious. I can buy that they're petty, jealous bastards... but "tact" has never been a term I associate with TNA. The only other logical solution I can think of is that the contracts handed out after this mess started are somehow different than the ones prior to... which if nothing else would be something of an insane case of shooting yourself in the foot by angering longtime employees because they're being treated worse than the new guys (not that TNA is past this sort of behavior).

 

And somewhere in this whole mess I'm left wondering about Low Ki. Wasn't he under contract with TNA, despite him not being in the company that often? He's certainly as big a ROH star as Daniels... or at least as much as Styles. So why is he allowed to return and main event ROH shows if the theory holds true? Of course... I could have my stories wrong. I'm was pretty sure "Low Ki signs a contract" was reported somewhere in the past year or so but I could be wrong. The fact that he has not appeared in 4 months would certainly support that.

 

The "jealous" arguement is all well and good... but it seems to be built upon nothing more than circumstancial evidence, hearsay and speculation. Not that that's any different than most wrestling "news"... but if something like "see, they're not in ROH" is used as confirmation I have to ask "why is that guy there than?"

 

2) "Their justification is that Gabe lied. Yes, you read that right. Because they think Gabe lied to them, they want him to admit he knew Feinstein was there all along, and was complicit in hiding his involvement. Reality is quite different, as Gabe/Cary were clearly moving towards a split with Feinstein after Gabe found out what was going on, and at worst told white lies to keep the company afloat while trying to remove Feinstein."

 

Uh... I don't mean to nitpick but "they say they lied when all they did was lie" seems like an iffy arguement? Is it sensible or fair for TNA to hold it against them? Maybe not. But this whole "he only lied because he had to" defense has always kind of irked me. I agree that a "white lie" was probably necessary for ROH's survival given the supposed circumstances... but if that's the case its still a lie... which is at least a case of questional business ethics. And you have to take the responsability for the fallout of that. Again, it might very well be petty and stupid for TNA to hold that against ROH... it might even be an out and out lie... but its still a valid excuse. It might very well be a red herring. It might be a stupid business practice within this particular business. I would never suggest for you to just agree with it... hell, I'm not sure if I agree with it. But to simply dismiss it as if it was based in nothing but petulance?

 

3) "The new TNA standard for guys who can or can't work ROH really has nothing to do with starpower in TNA, either. Chris Daniels is part of a midcard tag team with an extremely green partner. He has been in one major program, and he had his legs cut out from under him. He is nothing more than a middle-of-the-show Impact guy. If Alex Shelley gets to work ROH, Chris Daniels should too, but it's really all about hurting ROH, where Daniels is a big star."

 

Again, a bit of nit picking but... that's pretty much a gross manipulation of the facts that fit your story. A "middle-of-the-show Impact guy"? That might even be true... but only so much as the pecking order on Impact tends to hold true to the pecking order on the PPV. Daniels is obviouslly not a main eventer in TNA nor could your probably call him a cornerstone... he doesn't rank with Styles (to TNA)... but to put across the idea that XXX is not a big part of TNA? That's either ignorance or irresponsability. America's Most Wanted has ALWAYS been considered one of the top (in stature if not worth) commodities for TNA... XXX has always been positioned as their equals and direct rivals. TNA continues to push the cage match... the two teams again find themselves in a feud (quality notwithstanding)... they seem to being used to try and push the Naturals (albeit not particularly noticeably)... Portraying Daniels as if he is the TNA equivalent to ROH's BJ Whitmers or WWE's Jamie Nobles is not fair... and since I know you to be a knowledgable fan it casts an impression.

 

4) With all due respect... did the idea of "the other side" ever occur during the writing of this, Michrome? I know you're a ROH fan. I know you have ties to folks in the company. I know you hate TNA. But this piece reads like there was a single source the whole way. You never give a second of time to TNA... everything is about the suffering ROH and the evil TNA. Hell, that might even be the case... but it doesn't change the fact that I expected to read "fair and balanced" somewhere in the middle of it. Perhaps its my bias of knowing your bias... but the fact that you come about an inch short of calling TNA names sure doesn't help your case. The majority of the piece reads like "no fair and mature adult would ever do anything TNA ever did... and no fair and mature adult would ever do anything different than ROH did." If your story is 100% factualy correct and well researched then you're doing yourself and your case a disservice with the tone. Or at least that's my humble opinion.

[Michrome 0]

1) I of course have no idea why Styles and Daniels aren't working ROH and Shelley is. If TNA is keeping them back to hurt ROH (which is certainly well within the realm of possabilities) it does beg the question why Shelley is allowed. From what I can tell the full force of ROH was tossed behind Shelley when those two stars departed. He's clearly been groomed as ROH's next star and given a stable to go with it. He may not be on the level of Punk, Joe, Homicide, etc (and I honestly have no idea as I'm pretty much following ROH by reports and messageboards) but thee loss of Shelley would surely set ROH back and deliver a blow. If nothing it would certainly frustrate them, I imagine. So I am left wondering why TNA has a line as far as how much they want to be petty shits sabotaging other companies. The best thing I can think of is that TNA decided that pulling Shelley would be TOO obvious. I can buy that they're petty, jealous bastards... but "tact" has never been a term I associate with TNA. The only other logical solution I can think of is that the contracts handed out after this mess started are somehow different than the ones prior to... which if nothing else would be something of an insane case of shooting yourself in the foot by angering longtime employees because they're being treated worse than the new guys (not that TNA is past this sort of behavior).

 

And somewhere in this whole mess I'm left wondering about Low Ki. Wasn't he under contract with TNA, despite him not being in the company that often? He's certainly as big a ROH star as Daniels... or at least as much as Styles. So why is he allowed to return and main event ROH shows if the theory holds true? Of course... I could have my stories wrong. I'm was pretty sure "Low Ki signs a contract" was reported somewhere in the past year or so but I could be wrong. The fact that he has not appeared in 4 months would certainly support that.

 

The "jealous" arguement is all well and good... but it seems to be built upon nothing more than circumstancial evidence, hearsay and speculation. Not that that's any different than most wrestling "news"... but if something like "see, they're not in ROH" is used as confirmation I have to ask "why is that guy there than?"

 

I expect Shelley to be pulled soon enough. Low Ki was never signed in TNA, as he was working Z-1 full time. The jealous argument is based on hearsay, but it's pretty unanimous hearsay. I mean, TNA even wanted to sign Joe to some meaningless program months ago just to take away ROH's champ. There has always been a lot of anger in TNA when Daniels and Styles said they liked working ROH more.

 

2) "Their justification is that Gabe lied. Yes, you read that right. Because they think Gabe lied to them, they want him to admit he knew Feinstein was there all along, and was complicit in hiding his involvement. Reality is quite different, as Gabe/Cary were clearly moving towards a split with Feinstein after Gabe found out what was going on, and at worst told white lies to keep the company afloat while trying to remove Feinstein."

 

Uh... I don't mean to nitpick but "they say they lied when all they did was lie" seems like an iffy arguement? Is it sensible or fair for TNA to hold it against them? Maybe not. But this whole "he only lied because he had to" defense has always kind of irked me. I agree that a "white lie" was probably necessary for ROH's survival given the supposed circumstances... but if that's the case its still a lie... which is at least a case of questional business ethics. And you have to take the responsability for the fallout of that. Again, it might very well be petty and stupid for TNA to hold that against ROH... it might even be an out and out lie... but its still a valid excuse. It might very well be a red herring. It might be a stupid business practice within this particular business. I would never suggest for you to just agree with it... hell, I'm not sure if I agree with it. But to simply dismiss it as if it was based in nothing but petulance?

 

I don't see how it's valid. They took talent off "because of Feinstein." Now he's gone. What's the issue? Are you going to try to tell me that Jasmine, Ian, and others that TNA guys work for don't lie all the time? Give me a break. Banning all wrestlers from working for lying promoters is like banning all waiters from working for restaurants that serve food.

 

3) "The new TNA standard for guys who can or can't work ROH really has nothing to do with starpower in TNA, either. Chris Daniels is part of a midcard tag team with an extremely green partner. He has been in one major program, and he had his legs cut out from under him. He is nothing more than a middle-of-the-show Impact guy. If Alex Shelley gets to work ROH, Chris Daniels should too, but it's really all about hurting ROH, where Daniels is a big star."

 

Again, a bit of nit picking but... that's pretty much a gross manipulation of the facts that fit your story. A "middle-of-the-show Impact guy"? That might even be true... but only so much as the pecking order on Impact tends to hold true to the pecking order on the PPV. Daniels is obviouslly not a main eventer in TNA nor could your probably call him a cornerstone... he doesn't rank with Styles (to TNA)... but to put across the idea that XXX is not a big part of TNA? That's either ignorance or irresponsability. America's Most Wanted has ALWAYS been considered one of the top (in stature if not worth) commodities for TNA... XXX has always been positioned as their equals and direct rivals. TNA continues to push the cage match... the two teams again find themselves in a feud (quality notwithstanding)... they seem to being used to try and push the Naturals (albeit not particularly noticeably)... Portraying Daniels as if he is the TNA equivalent to ROH's BJ Whitmers or WWE's Jamie Nobles is not fair... and since I know you to be a knowledgable fan it casts an impression.

 

Daniels in TNA pretty much is the equivalent of Whitmer in ROH. He's in an uppercard tag team with a storyline, and once in a while he gets a big match, but he has no character development or any reason for people to care about him.

 

4) With all due respect... did the idea of "the other side" ever occur during the writing of this, Michrome? I know you're a ROH fan. I know you have ties to folks in the company. I know you hate TNA. But this piece reads like there was a single source the whole way. You never give a second of time to TNA... everything is about the suffering ROH and the evil TNA. Hell, that might even be the case... but it doesn't change the fact that I expected to read "fair and balanced" somewhere in the middle of it. Perhaps its my bias of knowing your bias... but the fact that you come about an inch short of calling TNA names sure doesn't help your case. The majority of the piece reads like "no fair and mature adult would ever do anything TNA ever did... and no fair and mature adult would ever do anything different than ROH did." If your story is 100% factualy correct and well researched then you're doing yourself and your case a disservice with the tone. Or at least that's my humble opinion.

 

There's no doubt that ROH was shady in the way they handled the situation. Still, the goal was to get rid of Rob, and eventually they did that. I'm very close to this situation because I have direct contact with workers involved. I was repeatedly assured that Jarrett's intentions were only the best and that they would be allowed back when Feinstein was gone. Over the last month, all of them have come to the realization that that just is not true.

 

Finally, it's possible that this is all a big grand work. Daniels, Styles, Sabin, Red, etc are all working their friends, families, etc in a big angle to come back to ROH. If that's the case and people directly involved are keeping the best work ever a secret, then I'll happily look like a dumbass when it happens. I have a very hard time believing that though, since Chris Daniels had no date last night because H2 cancelled and TNA wouldn't let him work ROH.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Now look, I wish Daniels and AJ would be able to comeback to ROH as much as the next guy. Also, I think TNA is doing it to spite ROH no doubt about it. But to sit and bitch about it really shows how biased you are Michrome. I mean, any way you cut it....it is reasonable for TNA to do what they are doing. THEY SIGNED CONTRACTS!!!!!! Weither you like it or you don't, the wrestlers signed those contracts and thought they were full proof. They weren't. I've read it and heard it numerous times.......WRESTLING PROMOTORS ARE NOT GOOD PEOPLE. So basically, why did they trust TNA? Trust me, I am NOT happy that TNA won't let them go to ROH too, but at the same time its just as much Danels and AJ's fault that it happened this way too.

[Michrome 0]

I don't even see how that's relevent at all. I clearly state in the column TNA has a right to do what they're doing. You're point is the equivalent of someone saying "I have free speech!!!" when they're called stupid.

 

The point is that the whole contract/Feinstein thing was a red herring and a sham. They wanted to get those guys off for months and jumped on that. They don't pay their workers anywhere near enough to limit their work. In the cut down to 5 dates a month, Chris Daniels makes like 500 per show. Is 2500/month a good living? They signed vaguely worded contracts because they were stupid and were told that it would only keep them from working WWE.

 

If TNA makes it their official policy that they want to keep Daniels/Styles exclusive so people will want to get TNA, that's fine, but the whole charade of morality regarding Feinstein is a joke. As it is right now, it's guys working for peanuts being limited from an indy with no television, all because of a stupid dick-wacing contest. People wonder why Shelley is still around, the feeling in ROH is that TNA lets them keep him so they won't start a big anti-TNA campaign.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I don't even see how that's relevent at all. I clearly state in the column TNA has a right to do what they're doing. You're point is the equivalent of someone saying "I have free speech!!!" when they're called stupid.

 

The point is that the whole contract/Feinstein thing was a red herring and a sham. They wanted to get those guys off for months and jumped on that. They don't pay their workers anywhere near enough to limit their work. In the cut down to 5 dates a month, Chris Daniels makes like 500 per show. Is 2500/month a good living? They signed vaguely worded contracts because they were stupid and were told that it would only keep them from working WWE.

 

If TNA makes it their official policy that they want to keep Daniels/Styles exclusive so people will want to get TNA, that's fine, but the whole charade of morality regarding Feinstein is a joke. As it is right now, it's guys working for peanuts being limited from an indy with no television, all because of a stupid dick-wacing contest. People wonder why Shelley is still around, the feeling in ROH is that TNA lets them keep him so they won't start a big anti-TNA campaign.

Actually, you missed my point. My point was that the wrestlers were to blame too as THEY signed the contracts. I understand they don't pay their workers enough to limit their work, I AGREE with that. ROH starting a whole anti TNA thing would be borderline fucking retarded. Why would they waste time boycotting a company? Don't they have enough shit to worry about? They are better off doing what they are doing(awesome stuff like bringing in Liger) to make money, and stay away from competing......perfect what you do, then worry about competition. Nobody was every questioning that this was a bullshit reasoning for doing it. I just think it's funny that people react about this and meanwhile every wrestling company under the sun are doing things that aren't morally upstanding.

[Tim Cooke 0]

"And anything Michrome writes isn't worth a damn to me."

 

Your loss.

 

"He's a RoH mutant"

 

Nah, I see him as a fan of quality wrestling.

 

Fun thread.

 

Tim

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

"And anything Michrome writes isn't worth a damn to me."

 

Your loss.

 

"He's a RoH mutant"

 

Nah, I see him as a fan of quality wrestling.

 

Fun thread.

 

Tim

I tend to not like federations that lie about having pedophiles around.

[bob_barron 0]

"And anything Michrome writes isn't worth a damn to me."

 

Your loss.

 

"He's a RoH mutant"

 

Nah, I see him as a fan of quality wrestling.

 

Fun thread.

 

Tim

I tend to not like federations that lie about having pedophiles around.

I tend to not like posters who have no idea what their talking about and just dismiss a well written and well thought article just because they think someone is a ROH mutant.

 

Mike and I have discussed ROH at length and he is definetley not an ROH mutant. But nice try though.

 

Good to see you post Tim- you should post your article about Danielson in the Misc folder

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I knew what I was getting well before the piece from the way he tends to act on here. He gets stuck on this whole RoH vs. TNA thing and always tries to place all of the blame on TNA. I'm fairly apathetic towards both but I DO NOT LIKE RoH because I gave them the benefit of the doubt about RF and got burned over it.

 

Edit: My point being I would read anything else Michrome writes but I think he's far too biased for a TNA/RoH thing.

[Michrome 0]

Actually, you missed my point. My point was that the wrestlers were to blame too as THEY signed the contracts. I understand they don't pay their workers enough to limit their work, I AGREE with that. ROH starting a whole anti TNA thing would be borderline fucking retarded. Why would they waste time boycotting a company? Don't they have enough shit to worry about? They are better off doing what they are doing(awesome stuff like bringing in Liger) to make money, and stay away from competing......perfect what you do, then worry about competition. Nobody was every questioning that this was a bullshit reasoning for doing it. I just think it's funny that people react about this and meanwhile every wrestling company under the sun are doing things that aren't morally upstanding.

 

Again, an irrelevent point. Everyone concedes that when they signed the contracts this became possible, but they were totally mislead to believe it would only keep them from working WWE.

 

The point of the column was that the debate months ago has been settled in the way most people knew it would be. Nobody was covering the story online, and after some emails with Dave he wanted me to write a column about it. I believe he will be covering it in this week's observer.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Actually, you missed my point. My point was that the wrestlers were to blame too as THEY signed the contracts. I understand they don't pay their workers enough to limit their work, I AGREE with that. ROH starting a whole anti TNA thing would be borderline fucking retarded. Why would they waste time boycotting a company? Don't they have enough shit to worry about? They are better off doing what they are doing(awesome stuff like bringing in Liger) to make money, and stay away from competing......perfect what you do, then worry about competition. Nobody was every questioning that this was a bullshit reasoning for doing it. I just think it's funny that people react about this and meanwhile every wrestling company under the sun are doing things that aren't morally upstanding.

 

Again, an irrelevent point. Everyone concedes that when they signed the contracts this became possible, but they were totally mislead to believe it would only keep them from working WWE.

 

The point of the column was that the debate months ago has been settled in the way most people knew it would be. Nobody was covering the story online, and after some emails with Dave he wanted me to write a column about it. I believe he will be covering it in this week's observer.

Also, saying that they were mislead, is that an assumption or do you know that for a total fact?

 

Also, I'll give Mike the benefit of the doubt. But for the record, he HAS come across as an ROH mutant many times. Now if that is because I haven't talked to him enough about stuff, then my apologies. But don't jump down Mad Dog's throat as I've read plenty of arguments between the two where Mike can come off like that......otherwise.....my apologies for thinking that way

[bob_barron 0]

It's just stupid to dismiss someone's article just because they seem to like ROH and then to make a lame pedophile joke.

 

There's a difference between liking ROH a lot (like me and Mike do) and being a mutant (which would mean accepting the fact that Walters beat Williams- something I don't think me and Mike are ready for yet)

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

It's just stupid to dismiss someone's article just because they seem to like ROH and then to make a lame pedophile joke.

 

There's a difference between liking ROH a lot (like me and Mike do) and being a mutant (which would mean accepting the fact that Walters beat Williams- something I don't think me and Mike are ready for yet)

I'm not making a pedophile joke. You can ask Dynamite who's talked to me and heard how much contempt I have for RoH for lying about RF.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

It's just stupid to dismiss someone's article just because they seem to like ROH and then to make a lame pedophile joke.

 

There's a difference between liking ROH a lot (like me and Mike do) and being a mutant (which would mean accepting the fact that Walters beat Williams- something I don't think me and Mike are ready for yet)

Well, Bob in fairness I don't think Mad Dog did EXACTLY that. He and Mike have gotten into it plenty of times here(I believe the TNA folder?) and like I said in my post above that Mike came off as a mutant. Now if I thought that Mike was a total ROH mutant, then I would dismiss his article too and also if Mad Dog is holding the pediphile thing as being an important reason why he doesn't like ROH, then fine. It's not hurting you guys.....so let it go. You all said your piece.....now lets get back on topic.....

 

For the record, I still watch and support ROH. But if someone doesn't because of the stuff that happened with RF....then that's their decision to make.....and I don't hold it against them.

[bob_barron 0]

ROH had to do what they had to do to get Feinstein out of there. When they realised Doug Gentry was still in tight with Rob they did everything to split the two companies entirely.

 

I have no problem supporting them and never will.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Then do your thing. Like I said I have a big issue with the whole lying thing. I might support them by buying DVDs again at some point in the future. But I do not trust RoH or any of the staff there.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

ROH had to do what they had to do to get Feinstein out of there. When they realised Doug Gentry was still in tight with Rob they did everything to split the two companies entirely.

 

I have no problem supporting them and never will.

And that is fine Bob. I currently think their product is getting even better than before.

 

I always looked at it like this. AJ Styles was quoted in a interview after the whole thing happened and said, something to the effect of "I'm Catholic, and with all the alligations that the church is going through....I wouldn't denounce the whole religion based off someone's actions, so I treat ROH in the same fashion"

 

That is basically what made me change my mind about the whole situation. That and the fact that I personally believe that they have resolved the RF situation. Hell, I am actually pumped because now I don't have to wait 2 months to get my tapes when I order them as well!!!!! WHOO HOOOO