Did WWE create a monster?

[Guest Anglesault]

With all these reports of Kurt becoming a real bastard backstage and using his pull with the powers that be to get what he wants, including shoving Eddie all the way down the card and setting him and Taker up for unbeatable runs heading up to the "about two years too late" Mania showdown for the belt (basically steamrolling over the rest of the roster), I have been wondering, could all this have been prevented?

 

 

The gist seems to be that Kurt is worried about losing his spot at this point in his career (the idea that he's past his prime must elude him). Alot of this is Kurt's own doing, albeit in a little bit of a roundabout way.

 

For the first four years of his career here, Kurt at least portrayed himself as a company man willing to do whatever the company asked of him.

 

The WWF/E saw this and basically completely took advantage of Kurt's (apparent) good intentions, taking every opportunity they could to shaft him to the midcard, and stick him in some of the more pointless feuds or stupid angles they could come up with. The result by 2002 was the image of Kurt as a "second tier" main eventer, a guy that could do some big shows and some big programs for them, but would spend the greater part of the year in increasingly bad midcard storylines.

 

The brand split and the move of HHH and Rock to Raw left Angle and Undertaker as the only guys on Smackdown with any kind ME experience to work with the emerging Brock Lesnar, and Undertaker seems to work about an eight month schedule these days, so Kurt was again pushed up as a (the) top heel show. Even then, from about January to Mania, Kurt was a lame duck, as he (with as many as three other people at a time) was shown to be no match for Lesnar.

 

Of course, Kurt hurt himself and got some stupid surgery so he could come back (again, apparently for the good of the company) early. Once back, he entered an amazingly poorly written angle with Brock lesnar that played second fiddle to Vince vs. Stephanie. The whole thing, which lasted from Junish to Octoberish came off terribly and made both guys look bad, culminating in an iron man match that did the same. At the end of this, he still was kind of a "back up" ME, but was rapidly approaching top tier level when he hurt himself again.

 

When he came back in January, his fortunes turned, kind of. He was working a bad angle for that month, but for some unknown reason, Brock Lesnar was really getting the shaft from the company, forced to work with Bob Holly and generally made to look like a pussy. Because the champion looked so bad, Kurt was easily the top heel on the show and came off as a big time player (despite the bad angle).

 

This continued through the Mania feud, which, just the year before, probably would have looked like a new, untested champ fighting a second tier challenger. But this time, Kurt was portrayed as a top of the line opponent. So, of course, Kurt hurts himself again and does the whole evil GM thing while staying top heel on the show, even over world champion Bradshaw.

 

Which leads us to today. A broken down Kurt Angle, who probably should have retired last year, worried about keeping the spot it took him years to get (a spot that under competant booking he would have had several years ago) playing political games and generally fucking everything up because he is so paranoid.

 

Could the WWF/E have prevented this by giving him the proper push years ago instead of taking advantage of his willingness to be a company man?

[JoeDirt 0]

Good stuff. I think a problem is the fact that Angle isn't Vince's prototypical "main event hoss" that he loves so much...a guy like HHH or Lesnar or even a guy like Rock. Angle, therefore, really had to work hard to turn himself from the bumbling idiot to a serious guy who can snap your ankle and is a force to be reckoned with.

 

I don't really know what to say. I guess at this point in his career Kurt knows how to play the backstage games, and wants to play them enough to ensure he stays at the top for however many matches he has left.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

Kurt Angle suffers from Main Eventers disease. HHH, Stone Cold, and others are known to have this condition where by putting themselves in programs and main events they are helping the business. Kurt loves this business so much that the way he wants to save it is by wrestling the Undertaker and having Eddie job. Kurt has to realize that his time is fading and he better use his power to put over and train the future then dealing with the bitter past.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Kurt pretty much got pushed to the moon in his first year, got sent back to the midcard to "pay his dues", before coming right back up to be the top face in the Alliance program (which bombed).

 

Politics playing is because Angle is scared and wants to keep his spot. Same thing happened to Trips after the quad injury. It's wrestling.

[Guest JRE]

I think you saying Kurt continually got the shaft for being a company guy is a huge overstatement. Just because there's a lot of other company guys that have gotten less than Angle- Benoit, Jericho, Kane...hell, Matt Hardy, Cena. And THEY aren't mentally unstable.

 

But personally I don't think Angle's turning into a monster.

[Guest Anglesault]

I think you saying Kurt continually got the shaft for being a company guy is a huge overstatement. Just because there's a lot of other company guys that have gotten less than Angle- Benoit, Jericho, Kane...hell, Matt Hardy, Cena. And THEY aren't mentally unstable.

But none of those guys ever reached the "promised land" of being one of the top (positionwise) stars of the company. Benoit and Kane and Jericho all had the "kinda sorta" yo yo pushes just like Kurt did, but I son't think you could argue, even during those pushes, that any of those guys being a top five regular star in the company. They were all second tier. Kurt has finally reached (or at least he believes he has) the top tier.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

If Angle's recent games are because he got shafted to the midcard on occaision... Kane should have killed Vince by now.

 

Seriously.

[Guest Anglesault]

If Angle's recent games are because he got shafted to the midcard on occaision... Kane should have killed Vince by now.

 

Seriously.

See above. Kane never really hit that untouchable top level star where he wasn't going to be yo-yoed back down.

 

Even right now, do you, as a fan, see Kane as a guy who couldn't drop down and feud with Rhyno?

[Guest Anglesault]

A better way to say what I was trying to say is that Kane/Benoit/Jericho never actually had a spot to protect. What was there spot? One month they would challenge for the world title, the next they could be used to put over a midcarder.

 

Someone like HHH or HBK and now Angle are actually in a position where they're not going to have a serious feud with anyone but a main eventer or strong, promising Upper midcarder. Two years ago, Angle could have had a real feud with Bob Holly and no one would have blinked an eye. Today it would be a shocker.

[King Cucaracha 0]

I don't know if anyone could have really 'prevented' this, without keeping Kurt Angle away from the title.

 

It seems like this is the way wrestling and wrestlers, particularly the top guys, have been heading ever since the industry became worked. Before then, the top guys would stay top guys because they were the toughest in the company. The only thing that the main eventers had to rely on was beating people up, and if they were good enough to be the best at doing that then they had nothing to worry about.

 

Ever since that went out of the window though, and the power went right onto the bookers and promoters' shoulders, wrestlers had to find another way of staying on top for prolonged periods and other ways of getting power. It's not like it's a new thing. Almost all the longest reigning champions from, let's say the mid 80's, have used or attempted to use backstage relationships and power to their advantage. Hogan, Flair, The Von Erichs, Lawler, HBK, Nash, Bret, Austin, Jarrett, HHH, Taker, Zbyszko, DDP, Goldberg etc etc etc.

 

Meanwhile, without gaining backstage power, there was nothing to stop the likes of Jericho, Guerrero, Big Show and Kane from dropping straight back down after winning the title. They were in the spot for a little while, but for whatever reason they didn't have the pull backstage. Or, nothing to stop the likes of DiBiase, Hennig, Rude and the rest from never getting extended runs at the top of the promotion.

 

 

Which is all a long winded way of saying Angle's really only doing what the most determined people in his situation would do, and that's anything possible so long as they stay on top and keep things going their way.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

This is going to be one of those negative Kurt posts, so look out, but first I have to mention that I'm one of those people who slobber over the ground Angle's walked on for most the past few years. So this isn't some guy trying to go against the grain, it's how I've felt recently as this "Kurt the backstage asshole" stuff has been coming more and more:

 

Someone needs to remind Kurt that his WrestleMania main event didn't really draw much as far as Mania goes.

 

While I usually enjoy him on TV, he's seemed to forgot that the reason he's over is an unusual sense of comic timing (which has been completely lost since his 9/11 push), a catchy theme song, and that he hasn't really been buried by anyone, although he's come out on the short end of a few fueds.

 

Angle matches are Smark Dreams for quite a few people given enough time and an opponent above broomstick level, but Angle's style is the kind of that puts the crowd to sleep like HHH's 2002 glass ceiling period. If you look at the highlight video of Angle's crowd-pleasing ring moments, you have the moonsault off the cage and angleslamming a Hoss of your choice, and that's about it.

 

He has very little in-ring character. There is no riverboat strut, no F-U elbow, no five knuckle shuffle, no hulkin' up, no "spit in the hand" slap, no lying and cheating and stealing. And thus there's very little for the crowd to be excited about. The most he has is taking off the singlet and applying the anklelock.

 

It's a "no gimmick required" ring persona that works fine for the likes of Benoit, HHH, and Bret Hart, but doesn't work for Kurt Angle becuase he IS a gimmick and got over as such.

[humongous2002 0]

I'm a big fan of Kurt's in-ring work, regardless of the fact that he lacks a lot of psychology in the ring he goes out there every night and busts his ass to entertain the fans. But his time as a top main eventer is gone and right now he should be letting other wrestlers get the chance that he got thanks to the WWE. He doesn't need another world title reign just like HHH or Taker, what he needs to do is help elevate deserving wrestlers(not JBL/Billy Blanks) to the next level instead of having those same wrestlers get into a feud with a very green rookie like Luther Reigns.

[what 0]

With all these reports of Kurt becoming a real bastard backstage and using his pull with the powers that be to get what he wants, including shoving Eddie all the way down the card and setting him and Taker up for unbeatable runs heading up to the "about two years too late" Mania showdown for the belt (basically steamrolling over the rest of the roster), I have been wondering, could all this have been prevented?

 

 

The gist seems to be that Kurt is worried about losing his spot at this point in his career (the idea that he's past his prime must elude him). Alot of this is Kurt's own doing, albeit in a little bit of a roundabout way.

 

For the first four years of his career here, Kurt at least portrayed himself as a company man willing to do whatever the company asked of him.

 

The WWF/E saw this and basically completely took advantage of Kurt's (apparent) good intentions, taking every opportunity they could to shaft him to the midcard, and stick him in some of the more pointless feuds or stupid angles they could come up with. The result by 2002 was the image of Kurt as a "second tier" main eventer, a guy that could do some big shows and some big programs for them, but would spend the greater part of the year in increasingly bad midcard storylines.

 

The brand split and the move of HHH and Rock to Raw left Angle and Undertaker as the only guys on Smackdown with any kind ME experience to work with the emerging Brock Lesnar, and Undertaker seems to work about an eight month schedule these days, so Kurt was again pushed up as a (the) top heel show. Even then, from about January to Mania, Kurt was a lame duck, as he (with as many as three other people at a time) was shown to be no match for Lesnar.

 

Of course, Kurt hurt himself and got some stupid surgery so he could come back (again, apparently for the good of the company) early. Once back, he entered an amazingly poorly written angle with Brock lesnar that played second fiddle to Vince vs. Stephanie. The whole thing, which lasted from Junish to Octoberish came off terribly and made both guys look bad, culminating in an iron man match that did the same. At the end of this, he still was kind of a "back up" ME, but was rapidly approaching top tier level when he hurt himself again.

 

When he came back in January, his fortunes turned, kind of. He was working a bad angle for that month, but for some unknown reason, Brock Lesnar was really getting the shaft from the company, forced to work with Bob Holly and generally made to look like a pussy. Because the champion looked so bad, Kurt was easily the top heel on the show and came off as a big time player (despite the bad angle).

 

This continued through the Mania feud, which, just the year before, probably would have looked like a new, untested champ fighting a second tier challenger. But this time, Kurt was portrayed as a top of the line opponent. So, of course, Kurt hurts himself again and does the whole evil GM thing while staying top heel on the show, even over world champion Bradshaw.

 

Which leads us to today. A broken down Kurt Angle, who probably should have retired last year, worried about keeping the spot it took him years to get (a spot that under competant booking he would have had several years ago) playing political games and generally fucking everything up because he is so paranoid.

 

Could the WWF/E have prevented this by giving him the proper push years ago instead of taking advantage of his willingness to be a company man?

Boy do you ever jump to some conclusions.

 

What exactly has he fucked up? Please go into detail.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

This has to be the most overblown story in the history of wrestling. Just because it was reported that Angle and Taker want to work each other that means that Angle has turned into HHH? In the words of Moe Sizlack "Whaa?"

 

Kurt deserves to be in the main events,a nd the main events are better with him in it. SD especially is lacking any credible heels outside of Eddie, I mean look at who is the champ is. I would much rather have Angle as the lead heel on SD than anyone else they have. So I dont get how he's holding people back and turning into HHH or whatever.

 

I haven't heard them say that he was the one who got the title taken off Eddie, so Eddie was already crippled as a main eventer when he couldn't get a single victory over JBL. Kurt had a strong match with Eddie at SS and went over, but logically that was the right finish because Eddie won the match at Mania. So there's no politics there. Now they'll have a what I assume to be a blowoff on TV this week, and yeah Angle will probably win, but I'm sure Eddie will look fine in the match and wont get buried like guys did against HHH in 2002/2003.

 

The guy who I believe plays the most HHH-like poilitcs is Taker. He really doesn't have the workrate to be in the same class of the other main event guys (JBL excluded) and he's no longer a big time draw. So why does he get to be in the potential WM main event program? He's the guy who is taking a spot away from a guy who really deserves it like Eddie, Cena or say a Jericho/Benoit type guy (if they were to move over from RAW).

 

I can see being against Angle as the top guy because of his shaky health issues, but at the same time if he can work he might as well be on top because he's the best guy on that side of the roster and maybe in the whole company. I just dont see where the problem is.

[cabbageboy 0]

I'm not going to trash Angle. Look, if ever a roster needed some veterans to step up and say "This is bullshit, here's what we need to do" it would be SMDN. SMDN right now is starting to break out of the horrid doldrums it'd been in and I dare say Angle's return to active duty has been a reason.

[Guest Big Daddy V1]

It actually seems that keeping Angle in the midcard was all for the better. If he was given the huge push years ago, the same problem would occur and having Angle push his weight around in the back would have been a hassle for the WWF at the time to deal with.

[humongous2002 0]

Since this is a Kurt Angle thread I would like to add this column from 411 Wrestling by Tim Livingstone:

 

Kurt Angle’s Gordy List

-The “Gordy List” is a list that has been used by many of the voters on the board for the WON HOF and was named after Terry Gordy when a series of questions was brought up that would determine whether or not a wrestler was HOF worthy. Since many people disagreed with what I had to say with Angle, I’m gonna comprise my own Gordy List for Angle’s sake to put in my “official” two cents:

 

1. Was he ever regarded as the best draw in the world? Was he ever regarded as the best draw in his country or his promotion?

 

-Never. During his tenure, Rocky, Austin, Taker, and even HHH were ahead of him in his own company, and many international draws were better than him.

 

2. Was he an international draw, national draw and/or regional draw?

 

-No regions in his time, but nationally, he was an alright draw, not great.

 

3. How many years did he have as a top draw?

 

-None. Austin, Rocky, HHH, and Taker were all draws before he was. Even as the main event at WM XIX, the match that was advertised the most were two matches that went on before him in Austin/Rock and Hogan/McMahon.

 

4. Was he ever regarded as the best worker in the world? Was he ever regarded as the best worker in his country or in his promotion?

 

-Not in my view. Angle was way behind The Trinity and the Big Four of All Japan/NOAH, and that was during the time when the All Japan scene was dwindling, so that didn’t exactly put him up there in my view.

 

5. Was he ever the best worker in his class (sex or weight)? Was he ever one of the top workers in his class?

 

-Benoit was better than him, but Angle was BOOKED as better than Benoit. At his class, Misawa, Kawada, Benoit, Guerrero, Santito, Blue Panther, and Villano III were all better, but he was in the middle echelon.

 

6. How many years did he have as a top worker?

 

-If any, it was in late 02-early 03, the period between the “Smackdown! Six” beginnings and WM XIX.

 

7. Was he a good worker before his prime? Was he a good worker after his prime?

 

-It’s hard to distinguish a prime for the man, since he has only had a six year career. He was simply a good worker, nothing THAT outstanding.

 

8. Did he have a large body of excellent matches? Did he have a excellent matches against a variety of opponents?

 

-He had an alright size of good matches, but mainly against Benoit and Guerrero. His matches with Rocky, Lesnar and Austin were ok/good, and his series with HHH was overrated.

 

9. Did he ever anchor his promotion(s)?

 

-Not really. He was a top hand, but never was carried on to anchor the promotion as long as HHH, Rocky, Austin, and Taker were around. Now, he’ll have to be an anchor.

 

10. Was he effective when pushed at the top of cards?

 

-This is where I do agree with his effectiveness. The crowds were very vocal in their heel or face heat for the man, and when he was pushed, the fans embraced him.

 

11. Was he valuable to his promotion before his prime? Was he still valuable to his promotion after his prime?

 

-Not really before his prime, but now, with the top draws gone missing, he’s extremely valuable as a top hand.

 

12. Did he have an impact on a number of strong promotional runs?

 

-He was pushed ahead of many during the InVasion, and he did well in many of the angles he was booked in, particularly with Benoit and HHH.

 

13. Was he involved in a number of memorable rivalries, feuds or storylines?

 

-His series with Benoit is memorable, and when I think of Angle, that’s about all I can think of offhand that’s memorable, but even then, that series was not so great in itself. It was simply good for the time and good by WWE standards.

 

14. Was he effective working on the mic, working storylines or working angles?

 

-The man could talk, he could put over a storyline, and worked an angle as good or even better than most of the top hands at the time.

 

15. Did he play his role(s) effectively during his career?

 

-As a “technical whiz,” he did very well for himself. As the “stuck-up Olympic Gold medalist,” he did well for himself. His recent “commissioner” role wasn’t that effective, but for the most part, he has been effective in his roles.

 

16. What titles and tournaments did he win? What was the importance of the reigns?

 

-WWE/F Champion 4 times

-WWE Tag Champ (he and Benoit defeated Edge and Rey Mysterio in the final of a tournament)

-WWF IC Champ

-WCW US Champ

-WWF European Champ

-WCW Champ

-WWF Hardcore Champ

-2000 King of the Ring

 

17. Did he win many honors and awards?

 

-2003 Wrestling Informer Wrestler Of The Year

-2003 Wrestling Informer Match Of The Year (Chris Benoit)

-2002 Wrestling Informer Feud Of The Year (Edge)

-2003 Wrestling Informer Feud Of The Year (Brock Lesnar)

-2003 PWI Wrestler Of The Year

-2003 PWI Match Of The Year (Brock Lesnar)

-2000 PWI Feud Of The Year (Triple H)

-2003 PWI Feud Of The Year (Brock Lesnar)

-2000 PWI Rookie Of The Year

-2003 PWI Most Popular Wrestler Of The Year

-2000 PWI Most Hated Wrestler Of The Year

-2001 PWI Most Inspirational Wrestler Of The Year

 

18. Did he get mainstream exposure due to his wrestling fame? Did he get a heavily featured by the wrestling media?

 

-From the get-go, he was exposed. Has been ever since.

 

19. Was he a top tag team wrestler?

 

-Not really. Only 1 tag title reign to his name. Didn’t do that much in tag matches that would make me think he was one of the best a la a Bobby Eaton.

 

20. Was he innovative?

 

-His finishing move was innovative, as was his pop-up superplexes, but outside of that, there wasn’t much else.

 

21. Was he influential?

 

-Hard to tell. Haas and Benjamin, who he was a “mentor” towards, were great athletes in their own right, and Benjamin had gone on to be a top singles competitor on the RAW brand for a while before a de-push and an injury. Since Angle left, Hass has floundered. His influence was minimal at best; however, due to his status in the company, he has gained a considerable amount of pull backstage.

 

22. Did he make the people and workers around him better?

 

-Not really. The matches in which he is most known for were between him and superior workers. He was not that great at being a ring general.

 

23. Did he do what was best for the promotion? Did he show a commitment to wrestling?

 

-He did. He was a company man and showed great commitment to the WWE since his inception.

 

24. Is there any reason to believe that he was better or worse than he appeared?

 

-For analysts, one could say that he was worse; he couldn’t sell that well and became spot-happy in matches where he had nobody to reign him in. For the casual fan, he was as good as advertised.

 

So that is that for your boy Kurt. A good wrestler? Sure. A great wrestler? Maybe. HOF worthy? Not even close considering who was passed up in favor of him. It’s a shame.

 

Credit: 411 wrestling

[Guest Brian]

As usual, I'd agree with most everything Tim said, except on the influence part. Kurt Angle's influence will be felt as the WWE tries to recruit amateur wrestlers heavily, as they have in the last few years following his success.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

Who is "HOF worthy" is a tough call for most guys, aside form the obvious ones (Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc).

 

HBK got in, and he was never really the top draw for the WWE. The only time the ball was totally in hands was the time from Mania 12 to October that year when Bret got back. And during that time business was in the toilet.

 

I would say Angle has never been put in a position to be the top draw in the company, so you cant use that to put him in or hold it against him.

 

His work is awesome. There are some people who like to pass him off as "okay" and "above average", but I think most people in and out of the wrestling business would say he's an elite worker, and should get in just for his work.

 

In terms of being an influence, he totally influenced the style of the time period form say 2000-now. Throwing all those suplexes, he made that popular (along with Benoit to an extent) and you still see that done in matches. Guys like Edge were totally influenced by Angle's matches, and you could see it when Edge was working with guys like Kurt and Jericho. On top of that you have guys like Lesnar, Benjamin and Haas who followed Kurt into pro wrestling. So I would give him a thumbs for being influential.

 

All that other stuff is a waste of time to read quite frankly. But its all subjective, some people may say he's not HOF worthy, but obviously the majority people feel he's worthy.

[Guest Brian]

HBK was also better for a longer amount of time. HBK had nearly three times as long of a career to measure up and a much larger share of matches that will widely be considered great.

 

Kurt's "style" was nothing really. It was just him working along the WWE lines with the added use of suplexes.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

So by your logic we can say Shawn's style was no different than the regualr WWE style except it was faster and had a few arial moves thrown in.

[Guest Brian]

Angle's "style" is exactly like the style that has been used in the WWE, given a few take the suplexes. He uses most of the same transitions that are common in other matches. His selling is lacluster, especially long-term, and is often sacrificed later on. His matwork, though great, is oftern inconsequential, and he still has little idea of how to build out of it.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

Angle's "style" is exactly like the style that has been used in the WWE, given a few take the suplexes. He uses most of the same transitions that are common in other matches. His selling is lacluster, especially long-term, and is often sacrificed later on. His matwork, though great, is oftern inconsequential, and he still has little idea of how to build out of it.

I totally disagree, but each to their own I guess.

[Guest Anglesault]

With all these reports of Kurt becoming a real bastard backstage and using his pull with the powers that be to get what he wants, including shoving Eddie all the way down the card and setting him and Taker up for unbeatable runs heading up to the "about two years too late" Mania showdown for the belt (basically steamrolling over the rest of the roster), I have been wondering, could all this have been prevented?

 

 

The gist seems to be that Kurt is worried about losing his spot at this point in his career (the idea that he's past his prime must elude him). Alot of this is Kurt's own doing, albeit in a little bit of a roundabout way.

 

For the first four years of his career here, Kurt at least portrayed himself as a company man willing to do whatever the company asked of him.

 

The WWF/E saw this and basically completely took advantage of Kurt's (apparent) good intentions, taking every opportunity they could to shaft him to the midcard, and stick him in some of the more pointless feuds or stupid angles they could come up with. The result by 2002 was the image of Kurt as a "second tier" main eventer, a guy that could do some big shows and some big programs for them, but would spend the greater part of the year in increasingly bad midcard storylines.

 

The brand split and the move of HHH and Rock to Raw left Angle and Undertaker as the only guys on Smackdown with any kind ME experience to work with the emerging Brock Lesnar, and Undertaker seems to work about an eight month schedule these days, so Kurt was again pushed up as a (the) top heel show. Even then, from about January to Mania, Kurt was a lame duck, as he (with as many as three other people at a time) was shown to be no match for Lesnar.

 

Of course, Kurt hurt himself and got some stupid surgery so he could come back (again, apparently for the good of the company) early. Once back, he entered an amazingly poorly written angle with Brock lesnar that played second fiddle to Vince vs. Stephanie. The whole thing, which lasted from Junish to Octoberish came off terribly and made both guys look bad, culminating in an iron man match that did the same.  At the end of this, he still was kind of a "back up" ME, but was rapidly approaching top tier level when he hurt himself again.

 

When he came back in January, his fortunes turned, kind of. He was working a bad angle for that month, but for some unknown reason, Brock Lesnar was really getting the shaft from the company, forced to work with Bob Holly and generally made to look like a pussy. Because the champion looked so bad, Kurt was easily the top heel on the show and came off as a big time player (despite the bad angle).

 

This continued through the Mania feud, which, just the year before, probably would have looked like a new, untested champ fighting a second tier challenger. But this time, Kurt was portrayed as a top of the line opponent. So, of course, Kurt hurts himself again and does the whole evil GM thing while staying top heel on the show, even over world champion Bradshaw.

 

Which leads us to today. A broken down Kurt Angle, who probably should have retired last year, worried about keeping the spot it took him years to get (a spot that under competant booking he would have had several years ago) playing political games and generally fucking everything up because he is so paranoid.

 

Could the WWF/E have prevented this by giving him the proper push years ago instead of taking advantage of his willingness to be a company man?

Boy do you ever jump to some conclusions.

 

What exactly has he fucked up? Please go into detail.

He and Undertaker are setting up unstoppable Kurt Angle vs. Unstoppable Undertaker world title match for Mania.

[Dark Age 0]

I maintain that Kurt vs Taker should be at SurSeries. Kurt goes over, has successful title defenses against Cena, RVD and Rey, then drops it to Eddie at Mania. Then you can let Kurt put Cena over before having his retirement run against Rock, Shawn, Flair, Benoit and Jericho.

[Guest Big Daddy V1]

I maintain that Kurt vs Taker should be at SurSeries. Kurt goes over, has successful title defenses against Cena, RVD and Rey, then drops it to Eddie at Mania. Then you can let Kurt put Cena over before having his retirement run against Rock, Shawn, Flair, Benoit and Jericho.

Too bad the WWE will completely throw a swerve that looks nothing like this at all.

 

I for one like this idea, and it should be done, but Taker as champ just gives me the jibblies.

[Guest Anglesault]

I maintain that Kurt vs Taker should be at SurSeries. Kurt goes over, has successful title defenses against Cena, RVD and Rey, then drops it to Eddie at Mania. Then you can let Kurt put Cena over before having his retirement run against Rock, Shawn, Flair, Benoit and Jericho.

Two Angle/Cena feuds...

 

Ugh.

 

Besides the fact that that would be a hell of a lot of bad comedy for two pretty good at best matches, I don't think putting Angle over Cena AGAIN is a good idea.

[Dark Age 0]

Oh no, I don't WANT Angle/Cena, but it'll happen. You could just throw the first match on SD if need be, but you got to believe that Angle's jobbing to Cena before he goes.

[what 0]

He and Undertaker are setting up unstoppable Kurt Angle vs. Unstoppable Undertaker world title match for Mania.

You know this how? From some bullshit from the torch. Watch as Eddie takes two out of three vs. Angle next week. "Unstoppable Angle" what horseshit.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

If Angle's recent games are because he got shafted to the midcard on occaision... Kane should have killed Vince by now.

 

Seriously.

See above. Kane never really hit that untouchable top level star where he wasn't going to be yo-yoed back down.

 

Even right now, do you, as a fan, see Kane as a guy who couldn't drop down and feud with Rhyno?

I don't think Angle couldn't drop down and feud with Cena. Even now, Angle is in the main events out of necessity. If Brock were still here, ten to one he'd be Champion.