Letters from the troops

[Guest GreatOne]

I don't see why people can't believe that these are real. The first poster posted 9 letters. Is it that hard to believe that there are 9 soldiers in Iraq who don't like Bush?

 

Because it's Michael Moore. If these guys have such a problem with the war I can think of oh about 600 people that would be better to send letters too. What's Michael Moore going to do for them? Eat a hamburger?

'I will protest the war in Iraq and the cruel mistreatment of our troops by eating hamburgers nonstop everyday we are subjected to the actions of this non-elected, AWOL, family-privileged resident in the White House'

[Justice 0]

So... out of 140,000 troops, Michael Moore managed to get a hundred or so little letters?

 

*shrugs*

 

Seriously, I don't see any sort of trend or point to this. 9 letters don't prove anything besides there are 9 guys who don't want to be there.

 

I'm waiting for Cerberus to nail you for this; he's ex-Navy and has a ton of buddies over there who tell him differently. Of course, Michael Moore is a bastion of honesty, right?

 

... Right?

[cbacon 0]

Because it took Michael Moore's movie to open the eyes of many that were in the dark, and many see him as the voice that the Bush Administration would like to see shut. And although bias may be involved, it's not like he's pulling facts out of thin air and portraying them as fact. He makes a statement, voices his opinion and backs it up. Whether or not you choose to agree with his opinion is entirely subjective though. His evidence seems to go ignored by the typical ignorant conservative who usually counter-attack with the ever so fresh fat joke of the day.

[Guest GreatOne]

Oh god, here we go again.............

 

Because it took Michael Moore's movie to open the eyes of many that were in the dark

 

Anyone that NEEDS MM to 'open their eyes' for them might as well stay blind.........

 

. He acts as the voice for the disenfranchised

 

Please the only person he acts as a voice for is Kerry like that 'unofficial spokesman' in the Wendy's commercial (appropriately enough)

 

it's not like he's pulling facts out of thin air and portraying them as fact

 

And John Kerry has been tough, consistent, and unwav......aw fuck it this one's already dead.

 

His evidence seems to go ignored by the typical ignorant conservative who usually counter-attack with the ever so fresh fat joke of the day.

 

Or you know, like DISCLAIMING his 'facts'--which does not really require a helluva lot of effort.

[Justice 0]

Because it took Michael Moore's movie to open the eyes of many that were in the dark. He acts as the voice for the disenfranchised. And although bias may be involved, it's not like he's pulling facts out of thin air and portraying them as fact. He makes a statement, voices his opinion and backs it up. Whether or not you choose to agree with his opinion is entirely subjective though.  His evidence seems to go ignored by the typical ignorant conservative who usually counter-attack with the ever so fresh fat joke of the day.

Uh, that's not exactly true, kid.

 

Fahrenheit 9/11: The Temperature at which Michael Moore's Pants Burn.

 

He distorts facts so much that they literally lack any truth behind them any more. That's all really does. Frankly, you should check out a few more of those, especially the ones on his books and Bowling for Columbine.

[Guest GreatOne]

But I really I thought Stupid White Men was great, and not just in extra toilet paper/birdcage liner way.

 

I mean the part where he mentioned his support for the PLO was just AWESOME...................

[cbacon 0]

.

 

 

Anyone that NEEDS MM to 'open their eyes' for them might as well stay blind.........

 

I agree, its a sad state of affairs that Moore has to be the one to portray this.

 

Please the only person he acts as a voice for is Kerry like that 'unofficial spokesman' in the Wendy's commercial (appropriately enough)

 

Kerry didn't send these kids to a war based on a lie.

 

And John Kerry has been tough, consistent, and unwav......aw fuck it this one's already dead.

 

Again, you don't refute points, you just throw in irrelevant points because you can't argue anything without doing so or making reference to wrestling.

 

Or you know, like DISCLAIMING his 'facts'--which does not really require a helluva lot of effort.

 

If that's the case, be my guest.

[Guest MikeSC]

Because it took Michael Moore's movie to open the eyes of many that were in the dark, and many see him as the voice that the Bush Administration would like to see shut.

Well, provided they don't mind a man whose films are best known for creating the party game "Pick the Inaccuracy".

And although bias may be involved, it's not like he's pulling facts out of thin air and portraying them as fact.

Oh, please tell me you didn't go there.

 

Hell, just for shits and giggles, I'll mention one small problem in Roger & Me.

 

One of the film's central stories is how the city of Flint tried to handle the closing of the GM Plant. They mention all of the steps the city took.

 

One small problem: Almost every single one of the measures taken were taken about a year before the plant closed.

 

Ah hell, do you want me to blow your mind about the Afghan oil pipeline deal with Bush he invents out of thin air?

 

Ah hell, did you know Charlton Heston's "speech" in "Bowling" was actually spliced up from 3 seperate speeches and did NOT occur terribly soon after the school shooting? Do you want to know why the NRA didn't completely cancel its convention in Denver, since Moore felt like demonizing them?

He makes a statement, voices his opinion and backs it up.

Like his using the quote of Bush saying "People call you the elite. I call you my base" without mentioning:

a) It was the Al Smith dinner where Presidential candidates appear as a tradition and do a self-denigrating routine and

b) Al Gore was ALSO there and ALSO spoke.

 

He managed, however, to edit the footage to completely change what ACTUALLY happened there.

 

Or his statement that Saudis flew out of the US before citizens could, an assertion shot down, uncategorically, by the 9/11 Commission.

 

You know, I could REALLY do this all day without a problem.

Whether or not you choose to agree with his opinion is entirely subjective though.

Provided one views reality as subjective...

His evidence seems to go ignored by the typical ignorant conservative who usually counter-attack with the ever so fresh fat joke of the day.

To give you another hint, the conservatives here go with fat jokes because we --- I know I have done this more than once --- will post LONG, point-by-point refutations of everything he says and the Moore lemmings won't give a shit.

 

So, why waste the energy? You don't have to trust me, but I could, EASILY, dispute almost anything the man has ever said in a movie at any point in history.

-=Mike

[Justice 0]

Please the only person he acts as a voice for is Kerry like that 'unofficial spokesman' in the Wendy's commercial (appropriately enough)

 

Kerry didn't send these kids to a war based on a lie.

Yeah, he did. He gave the President the power based on the same info that Bush was given. He, along with John Edwards, gave Bush the power to fight this war. If anything, Congress is just as responsible for Bush for not seeing through the 'faulty info'.

 

Of course, that's if you believe it was a mistake. I mean, if it is truly based on the 'Was he a threat to us' test, Kerry put it best:

 

Saddam was a threat

 

Seriously, how much more is there to this?

 

And, to be frank, a lot of these 'kids' are older than you. They are adults and understand the consequences of joining the military. Seriously, to try and cast them as children not capable of making an intelligent decision on their own future is pretty sad.

[Guest GreatOne]

Oh, christ. Do we really need another INXS here?

 

Kerry didn't send these kids to a war based on a lie.

 

Bring out the violins.

 

Again, you don't refute points, you just throw in irrelevant points because you can't argue anything without doing so or making reference to wrestling.

 

There's nothing to refute here

 

If that's the case, be my guest

 

How many freaking examples of this do you NEED? Hell just look around, or do you wanna see me specifically do it?

[Justice 0]

Question, did you actually read my link? It's from one of the most unbiased political sites on the web, don'tcha know.

[2GOLD 0]

What the hell are we arguing here? That some troops don't like being in war?

Seriously, what the hell is this?

 

Clinton thought Hussein had weapons, the UN thought he had weapons, christ AARON SORKIN OF WEST WING wrote into his own SHOW that Iraq had WMDs. Bush went it, oops everyone was wrong but Bush takes the fall?

 

What the hell are we arguing?

 

I don't understand how Kerry or Edwards can say ANYTHING when they agreed with the war. I mean, what is this?

[cbacon 0]

Look, no matter how much evidence is portrayed, any facts will be twisted or mis-interpreted by the conservative bunch on this board. The left side is just as guilty in certain aspects but it's more abundant in this particular forum of posters, some of which i'm convinced are glorified gimmick posters. I'm just glad the concentrated narrow minded on this board isn't typical of most communities, but at the same time it's scary considering it makes up a large portion of the United States, given the fact Bush still has managed to garner 50% of the votes when he should be clearly losing by a landslide.

 

Thus, refuting and disproving Michael Moore is pointless, and the validity of the letters from the soldiers will be seen as the release of the book draws nearer.

 

Question, did you actually read my link? It's from one of the most unbiased political sites on the web, don'tcha know.

 

I looked at it briefly since i'm going to bed, but will give it a more thorough look in the morning. From what I skimmed through, I didn't see anything ground-breaking other than "Moore distrorts this and that using such techniques" . I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that there may have been incorrect facts that the article pointed out that i may have missed though.

[2GOLD 0]

THE BOOK?!?!

 

This is about a stupid BOOK by Moore?? A BOOK?!?!?!

 

Here I thought we were talking about something important and not more "BUY MY BOOK! BUY MY BOOK!" by Michael Moore.

 

Dammit, this thread is already a waste of posts.

[cbacon 0]

No, it's more about the voices of the soldiers in Iraq that happen to be in Moore's new book. Message, not the medium.

[Guest GreatOne]

Look, no matter how much evidence is portrayed, any facts will be twisted or mis-interpreted by the conservative bunch on this board.

 

Bringin' the funny? I love this:

 

Facts

Disproved, next

Well your weak attempt at disproving these facts means nothing

 

The left side is just as guilty in certain aspects but it's more abundant in this particular forum of posters

 

Oh yeah always fall on the 'yeah we do it but THEY DO IT MORE!!!!!!' argument

 

but at the same time it's scary considering it makes up a large portion of the United States, given the fact Bush still has managed to garner 50% of the votes when he should be clearly losing by a landslide

 

And this should really concern you, where, since you live in Ontario? Oh I forgot the rest of the world should have a say in our affairs, gotcha...........

 

and the validity of the letters from the soldiers will be seen as the release of the book draws nearer.

 

Yep, cause ten out of 140,000 says it all....................

[2GOLD 0]

Again, so we are offering proof that soldiers hate war....

 

Is this REALLY a mind blowing thing?

 

That soldiers HATE war?

I swear, what is next? Bullets can kill people when fired?

 

Even the people who agree with war hate war. Hell, even the soldiers who feel they are doing the right thing hate war. NO ONE LIKES WAR!!

 

No one wakes up and goes, "ahh, suns out. Great day for a war."

Not even Ann Coulter and that lady has issues.

 

There is nothing here. Nothing at all. 10 soldiers don't like war and don't like what they are doing. Wow, I'm stunned. Am I supposed to suddenly go, "DEAR GOD! The soldiers don't like war...we must pull out now! They don't like it!"?

 

I still think the war was right, just think it could have been handled better. Sorry the guys are there and I know they hate it. But some of them still believe in what they are doing and so do I. Wish it could be over, but it's not.

[cbacon 0]

Bringin' the funny? I love this:

 

Facts

Disproved, next

Well your weak attempt at disproving these facts means nothing

 

Trying to disprove the arguments would contradict the statement you just quoted...

 

 

Oh yeah always fall on the 'yeah we do it but THEY DO IT MORE!!!!!!' argument

 

No, but your more abundant on this board, far more vocal and irrational. Nothing can be disputed because everything said is legitimate and anything opposing is either deemed ludicrous or ignored. There's no middle ground.

 

And this should really concern you, where, since you live in Ontario? Oh I forgot the rest of the world should have a say in our affairs, gotcha...........

 

Yes, being the Northern neighbour to your country frightens me as it does many other nations, which is why there is such keen interest in the outcome of this election. The lives of potentially millions hang in the balance of US international affairs.

 

 

Yep, cause ten out of 140,000 says it all....................

 

If you want to assume the book will contain ten letters, sure. And dude, you don't need 20 ellipses after making a point.

[cbacon 0]

Again, so we are offering proof that soldiers hate war....

 

Is this REALLY a mind blowing thing?

 

That soldiers HATE war?

I swear, what is next? Bullets can kill people when fired?

 

Even the people who agree with war hate war. Hell, even the soldiers who feel they are doing the right thing hate war. NO ONE LIKES WAR!!

 

No one wakes up and goes, "ahh, suns out. Great day for a war."

Not even Ann Coulter and that lady has issues.

 

There is nothing here. Nothing at all. 10 soldiers don't like war and don't like what they are doing. Wow, I'm stunned. Am I supposed to suddenly go, "DEAR GOD! The soldiers don't like war...we must pull out now! They don't like it!"?

 

I still think the war was right, just think it could have been handled better. Sorry the guys are there and I know they hate it. But some of them still believe in what they are doing and so do I. Wish it could be over, but it's not.

Man, reading comprehension really isn't your thing is it?

 

If you read the letters you would know that the soldiers aren't merely angered over the concept of war in itself, but the conditions they were sent to war, one that was unjust and immoral. Yeeesh.

[Guest INXS]

Oh, christ. Do we really need another INXS here?

Hey, leave my good name out of this, MikeSC-lite. Or perhaps MFER (Mike Follower!)

 

As for these letters - yep, it's a minority that have written to Moore, probably a whole bunch more that feel the same as those guys but haven't voiced their opinions and it should be noted that the vast majority of troops over there don't think like that.

 

Moore is a master manipulator and he's fighting dirty - and he needs to. Good luck to him. Anyone know when the new book is out?

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Dear Michael:

 

We here at Golden Corral Buffet appreciate your business, but for the love of God can you take a day off or something? We can't slaughter the chickens and cows fast enough.

 

Sincerely,

 

Golden Corral Management...

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

I love how Al Gore being present suddenly makes everything Bush says equal and fair. It was a STUPID thing for him to say... that is in FRONT of camera! It exposes high ranking officials for what they are and insults the poor and working class.

 

 

Cry, BITCH, and moan, all you want Mikey but holding editing choices against Moore makes YOUR arguement SUBJECTIVE OPINION, NOT FACT!!! Its called a persuasive arguement dolt. An effective one at that. If he continues to pimp his books etc. to the masses a conservative like yourself should be applauding him for working and staying off welfare. C'mon sweetheart, it wasn't FOR you. If these letters piss you off, WHO is the one getting all bent out of shape so easily? I figure since your so hardline if these letters were proven to YOU to be real, it would piss you off even more. Now I will click Powerplays link to see yet moe disputes against Moores films, cuz in spite of what you might think I will always listen to what the opposing side has to say.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

If he continues to pimp his books etc. to the masses a conservative like yourself should be applauding him for working and staying off welfare.

Hell yeah.

 

I shudder to think how many food stamps it would take to feed him for one day...

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Rather than start a new thread I'll throw our conservative friends here a bone with this lil ditty.

 

 

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review...n/s_258880.html

 

 

 

Michigan GOP says Moore's vote offers illegal

 

 

By The Associated Press

Wednesday, October 6, 2004

 

LANSING, Mich. -- Republicans say filmmaker Michael Moore should be prosecuted for offering underwear, potato chips and Ramen noodles to college students in exchange for their promise to vote.

 

The Michigan Republican Party has asked four county prosecutors to file charges against Moore, charging that his get-out-the-vote stunt amounts to bribery.

 

"We want everyone to participate in this year's election, but not because they were bribed or coerced by the likes of Michael Moore," said Greg McNeilly, executive director of the state Republican Party.

 

Moore, a Michigan native, is touring the country and imploring "slackers" who usually don't vote to head to the polls this year, saying they could make the difference in the presidential race. Moore has made stops at three Michigan universities as part of a 60-city pre-election tour.

 

 

During each program, habitual nonvoters are invited on stage to pledge to vote. First-time student voters are offered gag prizes such as clean underwear.

 

The GOP said Moore also offered students a clean dorm room, a year's supply of Tostitos and a package of Ramen noodles.

 

The GOP said it asked the prosecutors to charge Moore, a John Kerry supporter, with violating Michigan's election law, which prohibits a person from contracting with another for something of value in exchange for agreeing to vote.

 

Maria Miller, a spokeswoman for the Wayne County prosecutor's office, refused to comment on the matter. Calls to Moore and the other prosecutors weren't immediately returned Tuesday.

 

 

 

 

 

My god he is bribing those potheads with FOOD and underwear! He should have tried beer.

 

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Giving beer to under-age kiddies would have landed him in hot water.

 

And the last thing the any region needs is the tidal wave a Mikey Moore cannonball would cause...

[Guest BDC]

As for these letters - yep, it's a minority that have written to Moore, probably a whole bunch more that feel the same as those guys but haven't voiced their opinions and it should be noted that the vast majority of troops over there don't think like that.

 

Moore is a master manipulator and he's fighting dirty - and he needs to. Good luck to him. Anyone know when the new book is out?

Horseshit.

 

My gf's brother is a lance corporal in the USMC. You'd think that in all the battallions he works with, he'd know of someone like this, right?

 

Nope.

 

They have, every one, said they believe what they're doing is right. They just get tired of stupid command decisions (coddling the insurgents instead of... yknow, fighting them) and just being there. That gets old.

 

Oh, just for the record, the people that have died in his battalion? Every one has died because their Humvee flipped because the dipshit driving it didn't know what he was doing and took turns in sand too hard. That's it. No explosions. No gunshots. Dipshit drivers.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I wonder how many of these deaths are due to instances like BDC said above me and how many are due to actual enemy fire/bombs/etc?

 

EDIT: Not to say those who die in "accidents" are less important than those that don't, it's just amazing to learn of how dangerous "training" and "non-combat measures" can be...

[Guest Cerebus]

Oh, christ. Do we really need another INXS here?

Hey, leave my good name out of this, MikeSC-lite. Or perhaps MFER (Mike Follower!)

 

As for these letters - yep, it's a minority that have written to Moore, probably a whole bunch more that feel the same as those guys but haven't voiced their opinions and it should be noted that the vast majority of troops over there don't think like that.

 

Moore is a master manipulator and he's fighting dirty - and he needs to. Good luck to him. Anyone know when the new book is out?

You're serious? You're absolutely serious? I got to give you credit, its good that you don't even pretend to care that Moore is a lying sack of shit.

 

On the other hand piss on Moore and piss on you. Our country is lesser for every manipulating sack of horseshit like Moore and every one of his sycophants like you.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Too fucking funny! Sorry C-bacon.

 

 

 

 

 

Wednesday, October 6th, 2004

Republicans, Out of Ideas, Ask Prosecutors to Arrest Michael Moore

 

10/6/04

 

Dear Friends,

 

You may have heard by now that the Michigan Republican Party has called for my arrest. That's right. They literally want me brought up on charges -- and hope that I'm locked up.

 

No, I'm not kidding. The Republican Party, yesterday, filed a criminal complaint with the prosecutors in each of the counties where I spoke last week in Michigan.

 

My crime? Clean underwear for anyone who will vote in the upcoming election.

 

Each night on our 60-city "Slacker Uprising Tour" through the 20 battleground states, I've been registering hundreds (and on some nights, thousands) of voters at my arena and stadium events. I then ask for everyone over 23 who has never voted (or didn't vote in the last election) to stand up. I tell these slackers that I understand and respect why they think politicians are not worth the bother. I tell them that I may have been the original slacker, and that I do not want them to change their slacker ways. Keep sleeping 'til noon! Keep drinking beer! Stay on the sofa and watch as much TV as possible! But, please, just for me, on 11/2, I want you to leave the house and give voting a try -- just this once. The stakes this time are just too high.

 

If they promise me that they'll do this, I give the guys a 3-pack of new Fruit of the Loom underwear, and the women get a day's supply of Ramen noodles, the sustenance of slackers everywhere.

 

I then close by having them repeat the 2004 Slacker Oath: "Pick nose! Pick BUTT! Pick Kerry."

 

It seems to have worked, as each night the volunteer tables are swamped afterwards with hundreds of new and young voters signing up to campaign for regime change for the next four weeks.

 

The satire of all this seems to have been lost on the Republicans. Or maybe it hasn't. The state of Michigan (where we spent most of last week) reported that over 100,000 young people recently registered to vote, a record that no one saw coming. The Slacker Tour has turned into a huge steamroller with a momentum all its own.

 

So, the Republican Party, to show their gratitude that so many young people will now be involved in our system, has demanded that I be sent to jail for trying to "bribe" students to vote.

 

Of course, this would be quite laughable if they weren't so serious about their charges. But they are. I may soon be a wanted man in Michigan -- simply because I convinced a few slackers to change their underwear and eat a healthy meal of artificially flavored noodles.

 

I thought I'd seen it all this year -- Disney refusing to distribute the film they paid for, right-wingers harassing theater owners who showed "Fahrenheit 9/11," conservative action groups trying to get the FEC to kick our film ads off the air, the unnecessary restrictive R-rating that forced teenagers to sneak in to see it, and all the stupid, crazy attacks on me and my movie that I've had to listen to as I watched the public ignore them and pack the movie houses anyway, where my film was being shown. And when all that failed, five different Republican groups made five different attack dog tapes (oops, "documentaries"!) against me in a period of about six weeks. But they were all so bad, so boring, so right-wing, no one wanted to watch them and they too went away, a sad waste of good videotape.

 

Now, after enduring all this, with no tricks left in their bag, they've just decided, "Let's toss his sorry ass behind bars -- him and his noodles and his gift of clean underwear!"

 

My friends, they will not catch me. Though I may be on the run, and I may never be able to return home to my beloved Michigan, I make this solemn vow to you and yours: The slackers of America shall not be denied their noodles, they will proudly wear their clean underwear as free Americans, and they will vote Bush out of office come November 2nd (though they will not show up to the polls until well after noon)!

 

Stay strong, stay slacker, and please remember to turn the underwear inside out every three days. As for the noodles, add boiling water, stir.

 

Yours,

 

Michael Moore

[email protected]

www.michaelmoore.com

 

P.S. My favorite moment of the VP debate: Cheney saying to the moderator that this was the first he heard that that many black women in America had AIDS. Clueless. Cheney, for an entire 90-minutes, only mentioned Bush's name -- that's his running mate, the "president" -- once. They should have called this the "President (Cheney) -- Vice President (Edwards) Debate."

 

P.P.S. Tomorrow's letter, as promised for today, will be about my new book, "Will They Ever Trust Us Again?: Letters from the War Zone." And thanks, everyone, for sending "Fahrenheit 9/11" on its first day to #1 on Amazon. If you find that your store didn't order enough copies, or to report other problems, please e-mail Sony Home video at [email protected].

[Guest BDC]

Y'know, I wouldn't despise him so much if he weren't such a self-righteous prick and would just come clean about the fact that he makes it up as he goes.

 

But then... *refers to quote in sig*