Bush, Cheney concede Saddam had no WMDs

[Guest MikeSC]

Kerry supporters, defend this:

 

From the 9/14/03 Face the Nation:

 

Kerry: "Senator Biden and I are introducing an effort to try to link the $87 billion to the reduction of the Bush tax cut at the high end, and we're doing that as a matter of shared sacrifice. . . . I think we need--I think we need to roll back the top end of the Bush tax cut."

 

McManus: "If that amendment does not pass, will you then vote against the $87 billion?"

 

Kerry: "I don't think any United States senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to--to whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running. That's irresponsible. What is responsible is for the administration to do this properly now. And I am laying out the way in which the administration could unite the American people, could bring other countries to the table, and I think could give the American people a sense that they're on the right track. There's a way to do this properly. But I don't think anyone in the Congress is going to not give our troops ammunition, not give our troops the ability to be able to defend themselves. We're not going to cut and run and not do the job".

So, can anybody explain the whole voting against the $87B reason?

-=Mike

[Guest Shoes Head]

Anyone who supports women's rights should be backing this war, because an oppressed gender will be getting rights they never would have gotten otherwise. Anyone who thinks children deserve the opportunity to have better schools and get a better education and not be disease-ridden should support this war. Dare I say that the "we can only take care of our own" philosophy I've seen in Bush's opposition is far more jingoistic than being proud of America for standing strong. .

Very noble ideals. Unfortunatley, freedom and democracy are virtues that every country must learn and establish for themselves. We haven't been successful in imposing these qualities in any land in the past 50 years and we're running a 3 trillion dollar deficit because we haven't learned from that.

 

Islamic extremists are a signifigant part of Kuwaiti parliament, and there's terror attacks (albeit less publicized) against video stores and the very women without hijab you mentioned. The movement in Pakistan to elect more and more Islamic fundamentalists into office to impose "Sharia" is bigger now than before 911. Is the solution to march in and forcefully change their way of thinking too?

 

I understand your position, and it all comes down to basic opinion on foreign policy. Meddling is costly and ineffective and I believe the proof is in the pudding. What boggles my mind is how people can say we're allowing Iraqis to finally be "free" when Saddam was a member of the SECULAR BA'ATHIST PARTY - Iraq was NOT a theocracy to begin with. Women already had the right to vote, and many women DIDN'T wear traditional garb in Iraq.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

It's funny that Iraqi women have had the right to vote since 1980(in respect to their respective parties)...

THE RIGHT TO VOTE????!!!!??!!

 

Are you insane? NOBODY had the right vote under Hussein. I'll be damned if you tell me otherwise.

[Guest MikeSC]

It's funny that Iraqi women have had the right to vote since 1980(in respect to their respective parties)...

THE RIGHT TO VOTE????!!!!??!!

 

Are you insane? NOBODY had the right vote under Hussein. I'll be damned if you tell me otherwise.

Oh, they had the right to vote.

 

Well, as long as they voted for Saddam.

-=Mike

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

It's funny that Iraqi women have had the right to vote since 1980(in respect to their respective parties)...

THE RIGHT TO VOTE????!!!!??!!

 

Are you insane? NOBODY had the right vote under Hussein. I'll be damned if you tell me otherwise.

Oh, they had the right to vote.

 

Well, as long as they voted for Saddam.

-=Mike

For sure. Didn't he get 99% of the vote before the war? ......

 

Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick ... I just saw C-Bacon's NWO thread ...

[Guest MikeSC]

It's funny that Iraqi women have had the right to vote since 1980(in respect to their respective parties)...

THE RIGHT TO VOTE????!!!!??!!

 

Are you insane? NOBODY had the right vote under Hussein. I'll be damned if you tell me otherwise.

Oh, they had the right to vote.

 

Well, as long as they voted for Saddam.

-=Mike

For sure. Didn't he get 99% of the vote before the war? ......

 

Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick ... I just saw C-Bacon's NWO thread ...

Umm, I will go ahead and apologize for that crime against humanity known as --- hell, ANY C-Pork Product inspired thread.

-=Mike

...Maybe Saddam was just REALLY damned popular...

[cbacon 0]

I don't know if that was the exact reason, but that's going to end up being a huge byproduct, yes.

 

So in short, there was no reason rather than false assumptions.

 

Iraq is holding elections in January, for starters.

 

That's the plan, and while it seems all well and good in theory not all of Iraq will be represented.

 

So, are you saying we should have invaded Saudi Arabia after 9/11? Two wrongs don't make a right. Saddam was a bad person who is no longer in power. Stop trying to spin that as a bad thing.

 

I think you just contradicted yourself there. "Two wrongs don't make a right", so wouldn't that imply that removing Saddam by bombing the counrty would be wrong due to his evil deeds? I'm not saying Saudi Arabia should have been invaded, but there should have been more emphasis on capturing OBL rather than attacking a country that posed no threat to hurting America. Wouldn't that have been a greater measure in an attempt avenge those lost on 9/11?

 

I don't know about Saudi Arabia, but Kuwait is a relatively new democracy that's moving at a lightning-fast pace. Women are treated with an incredible amount of respect there and it's obvious they'll have the right to vote in due time.

 

Herein lies the hypocrisy though. The fact that the US can premote democracy yet have military bases in non-democratic countries such as Saudi Arabia. Using the 'young democracy' claim and that women might be able to vote one day dosen't deter this hypocritical theme and further extends the notion of mere self interest from the Bush Administration.

 

What has Bush actually gained from this war? He's gone against popular opinion when he felt it needed to be done, risked polarizing the nation (or worse, turning them against him) and has not attempted to build an air base in Iraq. Why would others in his administration also support this if that were the only reason we were there?

 

And if the war on terror is just for Bush's own self interests, why does John Kerry want to continue it? And why did he, and John Edwards, and Hillary Clinton, and Nancy Pelosi, and most other Democrats, vote in favor of this war?

 

They're only backing out now for political reasons. It's election year, you know.

 

Bush is merely a figurehead amongst a regieme that pushed for the war. I'm no debating whether Kerry has an interest in continuing it, but if he takes over in November he's faced with the daunting task of handling the situation. That said, i'm not necessarily advocating Kerry here as much as I am critical of Bush. Whether it's a Republican or Democrat at the helm, history has taught us that both groups can be as coniving as the other.

[cbacon 0]

It's funny that Iraqi women have had the right to vote since 1980(in respect to their respective parties)...

THE RIGHT TO VOTE????!!!!??!!

 

Are you insane? NOBODY had the right vote under Hussein. I'll be damned if you tell me otherwise.

Oh they had the right to vote, but it was basically Saddam or jail/death.

[snuffbox 0]

It's funny that Iraqi women have had the right to vote since 1980(in respect to their respective parties)...

THE RIGHT TO VOTE????!!!!??!!

 

Are you insane? NOBODY had the right vote under Hussein. I'll be damned if you tell me otherwise.

Oh they had the right to vote, but it was basically Saddam or jail/death.

If you realize this...what was your point with the first post about women voting?

[cbacon 0]

It's funny that Iraqi women have had the right to vote since 1980(in respect to their respective parties)...

THE RIGHT TO VOTE????!!!!??!!

 

Are you insane? NOBODY had the right vote under Hussein. I'll be damned if you tell me otherwise.

Oh they had the right to vote, but it was basically Saddam or jail/death.

If you realize this...what was your point with the first post about women voting?

The point relating to how Bush can make the claim that women voting is some sort of new ideal in Iraq. It's misleading.

[Justice 0]

It's funny that Iraqi women have had the right to vote since 1980(in respect to their respective parties)...

THE RIGHT TO VOTE????!!!!??!!

 

Are you insane? NOBODY had the right vote under Hussein. I'll be damned if you tell me otherwise.

Oh they had the right to vote, but it was basically Saddam or jail/death.

If you realize this...what was your point with the first post about women voting?

The point relating to how Bush can make the claim that women voting is some sort of new ideal in Iraq. It's misleading.

The entire concept of free voting is an incredible concept in Iraq right now. And women voting in the Middle East in a Free election is a first time thing. Nice try to worm your way out of it, though...

[cbacon 0]

It's funny that Iraqi women have had the right to vote since 1980(in respect to their respective parties)...

THE RIGHT TO VOTE????!!!!??!!

 

Are you insane? NOBODY had the right vote under Hussein. I'll be damned if you tell me otherwise.

Oh they had the right to vote, but it was basically Saddam or jail/death.

If you realize this...what was your point with the first post about women voting?

The point relating to how Bush can make the claim that women voting is some sort of new ideal in Iraq. It's misleading.

The entire concept of free voting is an incredible concept in Iraq right now. And women voting in the Middle East in a Free election is a first time thing. Nice try to worm your way out of it, though...

Which will make little difference in a nation where religious ideals will further intensify and not all women will be represnted. The idea of a democratic Iraq is wishful thinking at best. But you hold on to that vision Bush has painted of Iraq, full of sunshine and lollypops.

 

And it was a nice way to collectively 'worm away' from the hypoctical/selective interests issue.

[Justice 0]

It's funny that Iraqi women have had the right to vote since 1980(in respect to their respective parties)...

THE RIGHT TO VOTE????!!!!??!!

 

Are you insane? NOBODY had the right vote under Hussein. I'll be damned if you tell me otherwise.

Oh they had the right to vote, but it was basically Saddam or jail/death.

If you realize this...what was your point with the first post about women voting?

The point relating to how Bush can make the claim that women voting is some sort of new ideal in Iraq. It's misleading.

The entire concept of free voting is an incredible concept in Iraq right now. And women voting in the Middle East in a Free election is a first time thing. Nice try to worm your way out of it, though...

Which will make little difference in a nation where religious ideals will further intensify and not all women will be represnted. The idea of a democratic Iraq is wishful thinking at best. But you hold on to that vision Bush has painted of Iraq, full of sunshine and lollypops.

 

And it was a nice way to collectively 'worm away' from the hypoctical/selective interests issue.

Okay, buddy. If that makes you feel better about making a stupid point and getting called out on it, good.

 

But hey, we are all gonna be consumer slaves to the PNAC, so I'm just partying it up while I still have free thought.

[Guest MikeSC]

Hey, keep it going. It's about to become a classic.

-=Mike