Something I've noticed about Trish.

[JN News 0]

For the past few weeks, we've come to notice that Trish has formed a heel diva alliance with the likes of Molly Holly, Gail Kim, and sometimes Jazz.

 

 

 

 

 

My question is, could Trish be forming her own Diva stable with Jazz, Gail, & Molly, and if so, what do you think of this concept. Me? I think if they book this right, I think it could be a great concept. Trish's Diva cohorts come down to her aid, whenever she's in trouble, and save her Women's Title. It would make her a strong heel diva, and it would make Trish damn near unbeatable.

[JoeDirt 0]

Not really...I think it's just the usual face vs. heel booking.

 

Plus, they're leading to a divas battle royal at Taboo Tuesday, so they're getting them all involved now.

[JN News 0]

I still think it would make a great concept, though.

[Guest DeathBecomesYou]

It'd actually be a good way to make Trish seem even more of a cunning heel, if she were to resort to forming alliances with 3 of her biggest enemies.

Just on a side note, one thing I really can't stand about the way the women are booked is how pathetic the heels are made to look at times, with the heels running away from the faces last night, I can't suspend my belief to understand why Molly, Gail and Trish, after already giving Stacy a good kicking would run away from Nidia and Victoria. I mean Victoria can barely walk with her injury, so she's hardly imposing and Nidia isn't exactly Aja Kong so why should the heels run? Just once i'd love to see Molly, Gail and Trish stand their ground and beat the fuck out of Victoria and co, if only because that's the most realistic scenario.

[JN News 0]

Yeah, but this is the WWE we're talking about, and we all know their logic, and we saw it, last night.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

WWE could have a new version of PMS.

[Guest JMA]

I don't really like the idea of Trish and Molly be aligned--even loosely. I think it would be much better if ALL of the divas hated Trish.

[Guest DeathBecomesYou]

I don't really like the idea of Trish and Molly be aligned--even loosely. I think it would be much better if ALL of the divas hated Trish.

True, at the very least there should be an explanation to why they are aligned, since they basically feuded for the bulk of the last 18 months.

[Shanghai Kid 0]

Theirs no legit reason as to why Trish and Molly would be teaming after feuding for a whole friggin year. It's a bigger blunder than HHH running over Austin and then them becoming a stable a few months after it's revealed.

[spman 0]

Does anyone really care? No seriously, no offense meant to you, but WWE/F have been pushing the women on TV since the beginning of the Attitude Era, and while the quality of the matches has increased over the years, they are still no where's near worth the 10-15 minutes they get for their shit every week. It's obvious that Vince and the bookers don't care about the women, because their storylines are full more contradictions and inconsistancies then any other. Their matches are usually very short, and only used as filler so fans can take a bathoom break in between main events on a PPV. Women should either be wrestlers or eye candy, not both. Sure, Alunda Blaze and Bull Nakano weren't quite the lookers, but they could at least go out there and put on a damn good match, and even Bertha Faye would have worked circles around any of the current WWE Divas.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Well spman, you make a good point. I have been saying this since they brought the women's division back again. THEY HAVE NO WOMEN WHO CAN WORK. It's obvious that the eye candy is the only thing about them that the WWE ever pushes. It's always bullshit angles that nobody cares about that they devote too much TV time to. The women's matches are usually a part of the WWE PPV's(excluding SD PPV's....but still sometimes), and they are not a part that many people look forward to. The whole division is pointless and it has been that way for quite sometime now.......I can't even believe any of you REALLY care that much.

[Guest Loss]

I think all wrestlers, male and female, should be in any Trish Stratus-led alliance. Vince McMahon should be protecting that women's title, damnit. I don't respect anyone who has the gall to actually expect Trish to wrestle though, because she's so obviously better than everyone else, not just in wrestling, but in the entire world, that the outcome is a foregone conclusion. I'm hoping she retires the women's title soon and sets her sights on winning the Royal Rumble. Lord knows I believe in her.

[Guest Loss]

Might I also add how much of a testament it is to the loving and kind heart of Trish Stratus that she's able to forgive her former enemies their past sins and allow them the privilege of breathing her air and standing in her presence. Such behavior shows that she is ultimately a very forgiving, compassionate individual who reunites the divided and believes in second chances. Like Michael Jackson, she's a lover, not a fighter.

[AndrewTS 0]

Women should either be wrestlers or eye candy, not both.

I think Trish balances both quite well.

 

However, she gets overexposed quite easily.

 

Sure, Alunda Blaze and Bull Nakano weren't quite the lookers, but they could at least go out there and put on a damn good match, and even Bertha Faye would have worked circles around any of the current WWE Divas.

 

I liked Alundra! Okay, she wasn't that great looking in the face, but still...

 

However, as a wrestler, she wasn't really all that good, and Bull and others carried her. Bertha Faye? She was very poor in WWF although I'd heard she was actually quite good in Japan when she was younger and in better shape.

 

I know, I know, moot to the argument...

[strummer 0]

I've said it before, Trish is probably the best on Raw in delivering Brian Gewirtz's corny,sexual innuendo laced dialogue. There is something about her that makes the dialogue believable

[Guest W_Hillard]

Hell, if they were to form a faction, what would they call themselves?

 

Divalution?

 

 

Oh, and while we're at it....

 

 

The WWE Women's Title has meant two things since Medusa dumped it in the trashcan on Nitro:

 

Jack and Shit.

[Guest DeathBecomesYou]

I've got to disagree with both of you Spman and Kido, while they're not exactly Manami Toyota or Aja Kong out there, to say none of them have any talent whatsoever isn't fair to the likes of Molly, Jazz, Victoria and to a lesser extent Trish and Gail Kim. Now while they aren't capable of putting on blinding matches and the chances of them doing anything that will impress a puro/hardened indy fan is slim at best, those mentioned can still put on fun matches and reasonably entertaining angles.

There are two things that make the division seem worse than it actually is IMO. First, the way the title and matches are portrayed by the company and announcers, how the division is supposed to be taken seriously with that fuckwit Lawler on commentary i'll never know and with the stipulations they've been adding of late, it seems the company itself doesn't think to highly of them either. If the company itself doesn't respect them, how can the audience?

Second and what I believe is the major problem that makes the division look infinitely worse than it really is, is the consistent pushing of people who should be valets as wrestlers. While seeing the likes of Torrie Wilson vs Dawn Marie is bad enough, what's worse is when the likes of Nidia and Stacy are placed in the actual title division as a whole. Due to their limitations, Stacy and Nidia would be made to look bad if Molly and co could go to their full potential, so in their infinite wisdom, WWE have decided to dumb down the matches to accomodate the lesser "talents".

Looking at how good the division "could" be, whilst not a regular occurence, there have been some quality matches provided by the ladies in the last 2 years or so, not exactly **** quality, but solid enjoyable ** - **1/2 level matches, which is about as good as can be expected for the amount of time they get. I believe the best example of how good the womens division could be, can be found by having a look at another womens division, that of IWA MS. On the 5/30 title tournament show, the girls produced a night of solid matches, peaking with 3 matches that were around the *** level (at least), now none of those girls on that show are anything incredible, they're not Joshi level by any means, Molly or Victoria could've easily held their own and then some on that card, the big difference was that the IWA matches were well booked, well presented (with decent commentary treating the girls with respect), the girls weren't limited in what they were and weren't allowed to do and most importantly, they were treated as serious actual wrestlers and their matches were treated the same.

So for mine, I honestly believe that the better ladies of WWE's ever struggling division could put on some very good matches if given a chance, but like everything else in the company, it all rests on management to give them a proper chance to let those with talent do their thing.

Sorry if this isn't written especially well, I just wrote this up while I had a few minutes to spare during a break at work, so I apologize if my grammar is shitty.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

DeathBecomesYou,

 

See I agree with a lot of what you said. Mainly the stuff about if the WWE can't respect the women wrestlers the fans can't either. Now, I'm someone that doesn't really care for the IWA-MS women either. Now, I do enjoy joshi and since they have put the some of the greatest matches of ALL TIME. Then it's totally uncomparable to the WWE women's division or really any other if you think about it. So this is a main reason why I will give the WWE women's division little credit. Now I understand what you said about an entertaining ** to **1/2 star matches. That's being a little generous with the snowflakes in my opinion. They are sloppy workers and virtually NOTHING they do looks good(Not to say they haven't EVER hit a move correctly)and the matches are ALWAYS among the weakest of the card. Now, I'm not putting all the blame on the women wrestlers themselves........but they are part of it.

[Guest DeathBecomesYou]

Well, I believe they have produced some decent matches, maybe i'm overrating a little but they were still above the dud or * level. Again, sad as it may sound, I quite enjoy what the ladies do out there and actually enjoy the matches for what they are, but the main problem is lack of time to have decent matches. A great example of some lost chances, was the Molly vs Victoria feud from earlier this year, even taking into account Victoria's injuries, the matches had all the potential in the world to be quite good. But when they actually happened, none of their encounters got more than a few measly minutes, the Wrestlemania match was looking pretty good, with some nice sequences from both girls, before it abruptly ended after 4:30. Their match at Vengeance a few months later was also good, Molly showed more psychology, chain wrestling and working a body part (and I mean actually working a limb, not continued restholds like a lot of workers seem to use) in that 6 minute match than a lot of the WWE roster will show in a year, but again just as it was beginning to go somewhere it came to an sudden stop. Those matches are not isolated either, in the last two years, mostly on Heat unfortunately, the main group of talented female workers (being of course, Molly, Victoria, Gail Kim, Jazz, Trish and when she's wrestled Ivory) have put on some very good matches. Now if these matches were exactly the same, but instead of the ladies you had the likes of Val Venis, Hurricane or some other male mid carders in them instead, people would sing the praises of these matches saying shit like "Free TV match of the week" and such, but due to it having the ladies involved, they are just dismissed as "just another crappy womens match".

Like I said in my last post, I don't expect them to pull out something that will make people chant Match Of The Year, but on the other side of the coin people automatically dismissing any value their matches have as being DUD's, soley on the fact that it's "just a womens" match is pretty harsh. I don't expect people to change their opinions, I just find it sad that those who really bust their asses to put on decent matches don't get any credit or respect.

Okay, that's my ranting over .

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Well bro, I cannot speak for others. I was only saying my thoughts on this issue. I understand how people can be and they can run ANYTHING down, regardless if it's good or not. Yet, in my estimation they women of the WWE are downright terrible in the ring. But as they say opinions are like assholes.......everyone has one.

[Guest DeathBecomesYou]

That's cool, if we all had the same opinions then the world would be a pretty boring place.

[Guest Banders Kennany]

Hell, if they were to form a faction, what would they call themselves?

 

Divalution?

 

 

Oh, and while we're at it....

 

 

The WWE Women's Title has meant two things since Medusa dumped it in the trashcan on Nitro:

 

Jack and Shit.

Hillard, Hillard, Hillard ..... poor deluded old Hillard. The woman's title, if anything, has meant so much MORE than it has in the past. Back in '96, the title bouts were Alundra Blayze versus heel-of-the-months who were fatter and uglier and beat her down until the plucky Blayze finally ups and outsmarts them.

 

Maybe occassionally they gave Blayze a local jobberina to dance all over on Action Zone, but the woman's title was there for one reason and one reason alone: to make Blayze look good. Hell she was the only feamael even SIGNED!

 

Now the woman's title has a division of regulars 8 divas to 9 divas-deep and some actual interest, however minimal. Even with the surplus of eye-candy/can't-barely-wrestle girls like Stacy and Nidia, it's still tons more interesting than the crap it was when Blayze held the mantle.

 

Why did Blayze even jump to WCW? They didn't build their own women's division around her....hell they didn't even HAVE one. She wasn't even a manager or valet. I guess she just wanted some extra cash to sit on the sidelines and work on her tan, right?

[Guest Black Lightning]

Those matches are not isolated either, in the last two years, mostly on Heat unfortunately, the main group of talented female workers (being of course, Molly, Victoria, Gail Kim, Jazz, Trish and when she's wrestled Ivory) have put on some  very good matches. Now if these matches were exactly the same, but instead of the ladies you had the likes of Val Venis, Hurricane or some other male mid carders in them instead, people would sing the praises of these matches saying shit like "Free TV match of the week" and such, but due to it having the ladies involved, they are just dismissed as "just another crappy womens match".

I would just like to say that I agree whole-heartedly with everything you said, and especially this part. In fact, I was actually saying that about the Vengeance match you mentioned, shortly after it happened.

 

It's really unfortunate that the women are written off before even doing anything, but I've simply come to accept the fact that women's wrestling fans are in the extreme minority. Regrettably, I don't see that ever really changing, either. I think it's somewhat comparable to the stigma that the smaller guys have with the casuals, except this one obviously has far more crossover to it. It's a shame too since, as you said, the better ones tend to work harder than almost anyone for barely a fraction of the respect. For example, Gail vs. Nidia from Heat a while back was (surprisingly) one of the best matches of that week, but I don't recall anyone talking about it at all, outside of pretty much just TigerDriver91 and maybe two others.

 

But, yeah, you've already covered the points I was going to make. Good posts, DBY.

[Guest W_Hillard]

Hell, if they were to form a faction, what would they call themselves?

 

Divalution?

 

 

Oh, and while we're at it....

 

 

The WWE Women's Title has meant two things since Medusa dumped it in the trashcan on Nitro:

 

Jack and Shit.

Hillard, Hillard, Hillard ..... poor deluded old Hillard. The woman's title, if anything, has meant so much MORE than it has in the past. Back in '96, the title bouts were Alundra Blayze versus heel-of-the-months who were fatter and uglier and beat her down until the plucky Blayze finally ups and outsmarts them.

 

Maybe occassionally they gave Blayze a local jobberina to dance all over on Action Zone, but the woman's title was there for one reason and one reason alone: to make Blayze look good. Hell she was the only feamael even SIGNED!

 

Now the woman's title has a division of regulars 8 divas to 9 divas-deep and some actual interest, however minimal. Even with the surplus of eye-candy/can't-barely-wrestle girls like Stacy and Nidia, it's still tons more interesting than the crap it was when Blayze held the mantle.

 

Why did Blayze even jump to WCW? They didn't build their own women's division around her....hell they didn't even HAVE one. She wasn't even a manager or valet. I guess she just wanted some extra cash to sit on the sidelines and work on her tan, right?

I posit that, even with the "flavor-of-the-week" opponents that Alundra faced on a regular basis, WWF and the fans had more interest in the Women's title than they do now.

 

Alundra Blaze was actually a quite charismatic character and people actually cared about her title defenses. The Women's Division was given something of a push and the title felt more important back then. It's more of an afterthought now, as we have Divas wrestling in nightgowns, arguing over who looked better in Playboy, and shaving each other's heads.

 

Beyond that, Divas during Alundra's time were better workers than what we are seeing today. Let's face it, most of the Divas today couldn't wrestle their way out of a wet paper bag.

 

Alundra jumped to WCW (and took up her old moniker of Medusa) due to promises that Bischoff made and didn't follow through on. And what few opponents she faced in her short run there, were basically the same ones she faced in the WWF.

 

Note that the Women's Division seemed to fall by the wayside the moment Medusa chucked the belt into the trash. Which she didn't really want to do, but Bischoff talked her into it. (According to him, anywho. See the Monday Night Wars DVD where he talks about this very event.)

 

It's been brought back... what?... twice?... since then. And it has never regained the credibility it formerly had.

 

Plus, not allowing the Smackdown! Divas to compete for the title is just plain stupid, IMHO. If they could simply increase the list of contenders for the belt, it might actually mean something again.

[Mecha Mummy 0]

Plus, not allowing the Smackdown! Divas to compete for the title is just plain stupid, IMHO. If they could simply increase the list of contenders for the belt, it might actually mean something again.

 

The problem is that there are, to my knowledge, two Smackdown women, and neither of them can wrestle a lick. Say what you will about Nidia, but at least she's capable of hitting a move or two, unlike Torrie Wilson or Dawn Marie.

 

And regarding * ratings of women's matches in WWE, there was one that I can clearly remember that I thought approached ***; the Molly/Jazz match from last year when Molly was a face for no apparent reason.

[Guest W_Hillard]

Plus, not allowing the Smackdown! Divas to compete for the title is just plain stupid, IMHO. If they could simply increase the list of contenders for the belt, it might actually mean something again.

 

The problem is that there are, to my knowledge, two Smackdown women, and neither of them can wrestle a lick. Say what you will about Nidia, but at least she's capable of hitting a move or two, unlike Torrie Wilson or Dawn Marie.

 

And regarding * ratings of women's matches in WWE, there was one that I can clearly remember that I thought approached ***; the Molly/Jazz match from last year when Molly was a face for no apparent reason.

Forgive me. I haven't been able to watch Smackdown! for some time now, so I'm behind in that regard.

 

The Molly/Jazz thing didn't really go anywhere, though, did it? I mean, when was the last time a match in the Women's Division was actually a focus and not an afterthought?

 

For that matter, when was the last time a Women's Division match feel well-thought out, and not like it was thrown together at the last minute?

 

You see, this is what I have a problem with. While the Division during Alundra's time wasn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, it was right for it's time, and was something the fans could care about.

 

When was the last time you could say that about any of the current crop? Wrestlemania 20 doesn't count. People didn't give a damn about the Victoria/Molly feud itself. They just wanted to see Molly get her head shaved.

[Blade2kxx 0]

The last GREAT Women's Title fued was Victoria vs. Trish in 2002...

 

I was SO hoping to see them bust out the Women's Steel Cage on them and bloody themselves for thier HATE! Too bad WWE won't let girls bleed...

 

The only way to ressurect the image of the title is to bring in the savior of the division, the ultimate in super-goddess wrestlers, and one that I'm pissed they haven't brought up yet.

 

Alexis Laree.

[Guest W_Hillard]

The last GREAT Women's Title fued was Victoria vs. Trish in 2002...

 

I was SO hoping to see them bust out the Women's Steel Cage on them and bloody themselves for thier HATE! Too bad WWE won't let girls bleed...

 

The only way to ressurect the image of the title is to bring in the savior of the division, the ultimate in super-goddess wrestlers, and one that I'm pissed they haven't brought up yet.

 

Alexis Laree.

Excuse me, but... Who?

 

Regardless, I don't care who they bring in. It isn't going to get any better until the booking and writing improves.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

I can't believe people would diss the entire crop of women workers in WWE right now. I honestly think Molly is the best NA Woman wrestler EVER.

 

Seriously,who's better?

[Shanghai Kid 0]

The Trish/Victoria feud and the Trish/Molly feud were pretty good feuds. I don't know if fans neccessarily cared about them, but they weren't Heat level feuds, they were given legit screen time and had PPV blowoffs. The Trish/Victoria brawl was great. I think Trish did restore some credibility with the belt cause she did have those good feuds, and she comes off legit since we knew she went from being a valet to a wrestler.

 

The problem with the womens division is that they only had one face, Trish, and she turned heel. Now this would make sense if you brought Lita back and made her the top face, but she's off doing whatever the hell she's doing with Kane.

 

Nobody cares about Nidia and Stacy will never be taken serious. Trish/Lita I think are the top divas, and eventually they have to build up to a big match with those two. I thought when they were both top faces they should faced off at Wrestlemania but they did a tripple threat instead. Their's just TOO MANY heels, and not enough face women wrestlers. Turning Victoria face was a huge mistake, she no longer even has a character.