Israel up to usual tactics...

[Guest INXS]

The Myths/Facts don't wash with me i'm afraid

 

Because they totally destroy your argument and expose you for the ignorant anti-Semite that you are?

 

respond with your own thoughts not the mantra of a pro-Israeli publication.

 

I could do that and I'd probably be right but I think posting actual facts from a credible source that backs up everything they say is better.

 

I'm sure I could dig up plenty of Myths/Facts representing the Palestinian side, with them not necessarily representing the truth.

 

Please do. I'm sure everyone here would be happy to dismiss their argument.

 

And Dr. Tom also just owned you regarding Israel but you'll probably stick your fingers in your ear and run away.

 

Question:

 

When Israel was invaded on Yom Kippur (the holiest day of the Jewish calendar)- were they the bad guys then you anti-Semitic fuck?

It is not anti-semite to oppose the policies of Israel. Don't call me a "fuck" or resort to other acts of flaming please - let's try and keep this on a level approaching decorum.

 

To answer you, no, of course the israeli's weren't the bad guys when they were invaded - i've alread stated in this thread, and time and time again in previous threads, that I don't condone violence.

[bob_barron 0]

I find it hilarious that you're totally ignoring everything Dr. Tom said.

 

Calling Israel the bad guys when you know nothing about the situation makes you an anti-Semitic fuck I'm afraid. Sorry but it's true.

 

If Israel were the bad guys- there would be no Palestinian people.

[The Czech Republic 0]

It is not anti-semite to oppose the policies of Israel.

Maybe so, but it's pretty ignorant to do that.

[Guest INXS]

Why should the UN help out the security of Israel when their tactics are illegal and immoral?!

Because you'd think a billion people trying to destroy one tiny state is the kind of thing they might get involved in. Were they possessed of a spine, that is.

 

Israel are the bad guys simply because since 1967, Jewish settlers occupied Palestinian territory, later forming Israel.

Huh?

 

Unless my history is way off, the current state of Israel was formed in 1948.

 

Since then, Israel have continued to widen their borders...

Spoils of war. They would be attacked, defend themselves, and win the land. Why should they give it back? This is how nations have expanded since the beginning. Israel didn't seek to go out and expand their borders, but they had a few million Moslems trying to kill them, defeated them, and took some land for their troubles. Fair play to them, I say.

 

and oppress the Palestinian people

Who are terrorists led by fellow terrorists and puppets of the region's Islamofascist regimes.

 

camps that Palestinians were forced to set up and live in as their towns and villiages were occupied by Israel.

Waaaah. My heart bleeds. Let's see... Palestine attacked Israel and got their clocks cleaned. Since then, they have taken every measure available to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible. The fact that we can still speak of Palestinians in the present tense is a testament to the patience of Israel. Honestly, I would've wiped them out a long time ago.

 

but as Israel continues it's unchecked aggression in the region

I love it how you paint the country that routinely suffers terrorist attacks as the aggressor. Tool.

 

I believe that the arrogance of the Israeli's is so high that they couldn't care less whether they accidently shot the wrong guys.

And I believe you're a cretin of the first division.

 

How would you handle things if you were in charge of a small country surrounded by more than a billion folks who want to destroy you and put all your people to the sword? How would you handle things if you were in charge of a small country that repeatedly suffered terrorist attacks against its civilians and -- even more appallingly -- its rescue workers? Israel is fighting back, and considering the weapons they have at their disposal, they've shown commendable restraint. Pull your head out of the sand and see the light.

 

Perhaps I am ignorant

There's no conditional modifier necessary there.

 

why am I alone here in denouncing Israel's tactics and seeing the plight of the Palestinian people?

Because you're a tard who supports terrorism over democracy.

Even if I concede that Israel ws formed in 48, it doesn't take away the basis on which the country was formed.

 

Saying that Israel's land grabbing policy is 'fair play' actually disturbs me.

 

I like how you piant the actual agressors, Israel, as being the good guys when they continue to raze Palestinian homes and refugee camps and steal land, on top of what attrocities they initially commited. Tool.

 

 

I don't support terrorism over democracy at all. I've already stated countless times that I don't support violence from the Palestinian side and nor to I actually oppose Israel being there at all at this stage. Perhaps if Israel gave Palestine back enough of their stolen land and ceased their acts of aggression some rifts would be healed.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Even if I concede that Israel ws formed in 48, it doesn't take away the basis on which the country was formed.

 

Saying that Israel's land grabbing policy is 'fair play' actually disturbs me.

Do you throw a fit like this when you play poker and the other guy takes your chips when he has a better hand?

[bob_barron 0]

I don't support terrorism over democracy at all. I've already stated countless times that I don't support violence from the Palestinian side and nor to I actually oppose Israel being there at all at this stage. Perhaps if Israel gave Palestine back enough of their stolen land and ceased their acts of aggression some rifts would be healed.

 

Perhaps if Palestinians stopped blowing up Israel, breaking treaties and invading the country only to get their ass kicked- Israel would be a lot nicer to Palestine. As it is- I think they're nice enough

[Guest MikeSC]

The UN had little choice but to recognize an Israeli state. Even Yasser Arafat recognized Israel. Why should the UN help out the security of Israel when their tactics are illegal and immoral?!

 

Israel are the bad guys simply because since 1967, Jewish settlers occupied Palestinian territory, later forming Israel. camps that Palestinians were forced to set up and live in as their towns and villiages were occupied by Israel.

The UN was a driving force behind Israel as a Jewish state. It was the Arabs who ATTACKED right after it became one that was the problem.

 

And they lost the land because Palestinians ATTACKED them and lost. The Palestinians lost the territory by being idiotic twats.

Since then, Israel have continued to widen their borders and oppress the Palestinian people, even going so far as to build a huge wall further into Palestinian territory, thus grabbing even more land, not to mention the razing of refugee camps;

And land they have grabbed is from winning a war THRUST upon them.

 

And they oppress the Palestinians? Palestinians have more rights in Israel than Arabs have in other Arab states. And the wall is being built by NUMEROUS countries (including Arabia) and is a necessity since the monkeys have a hard-on for bombing buses and discos.

 

As for the razing of camps, you're likely discussing Jenin --- one of the all-time big hoaxes in history.

I don't condone the suicide bombings and violence towards Israel in the slightest but as Israel continues it's unchecked aggression in the region it is becoming easier to see why some Palestinians feels frustrated enough to use violence.

Name a war Israel started. Name a violent act against Palestinians that wasn't started by Palestinians bombing them.

Let's get this clear, the Palestinian people are not attacking Israel politically because of the hell of it - nor are the suicide bombers, who are nothing more than terrorists and for which there is no place in the world for them - it's because they are being oppressed by a people that after initially forming a state on their land which is bad enough, continues to take the piss and grab even more land.

Perhaps they and the Arab world shouldn't have ATTACKED ISRAEL right after it was formed. Would've made a bit of sense.

 

Israel is well within their rights to slaughter every person is Palestinian territory and could easily do so. They do not because, unlike the monkeys, they have humanity.

To answer your third question, I don't believe that this lastest shooting was 'accidental'. I believe that the arrogance of the Israeli's is so high that they couldn't care less whether they accidently shot the wrong guys. Actions like that, including the foray into lebanon, are because Israel are the agressors in the region.

Thank you, Noam Chomsky, for that anti-Semitic and ass-backwards logic.

Perhaps I am ignorant to something that the American public are privy to but why am I alone here in denouncing Israel's tactics and seeing the plight of the Palestinian people?

Because you're an amoral fuck who only gives a shit about himself.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Even if I concede that Israel ws formed in 48, it doesn't take away the basis on which the country was formed.

No, but history CLEARLY contradicts your anti-Semitic rantings. They were formed, were prepared to live side-by-side with the Palestinians --- and then the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world attacked.

 

And lost.

 

My sympathy is lacking for the plight of a people who Arabs don't want to touch because it's easier to exploit them than to help them.

 

There is a reason nobody on the fucking planet wants to deal with them.

 

And you, as usual, ignore Israel OFFERING TO GIVE Palestine almost everything they asked for just a few years ago and Arafat WALKED AWAY and declared an intifada.

Saying that Israel's land grabbing policy is 'fair play' actually disturbs me.

You attack a country and lose --- you deserve punishment.

I like how you piant the actual agressors, Israel, as being the good guys when they continue to raze Palestinian homes and refugee camps and steal land, on top of what attrocities they initially commited. Tool.

I like how you turn a country that was assaulted repeatedly and constantly as the aggressors.

 

Since you keep harping on the "refugee camp" razing, read this.

I don't support terrorism over democracy at all.

Perhaps I am ignorant to something that the American public are privy to but why am I alone here in denouncing democracy and seeing the plight of the Palestinian people?

Paraphrased from a comment from somebody who is lacking info.

I've already stated countless times that I don't support violence from the Palestinian side and nor to I actually oppose Israel being there at all at this stage.

Wow, that's pretty darned decent of you.

Perhaps if Israel gave Palestine back enough of their stolen land and ceased their acts of aggression some rifts would be healed.

They already offered to give up their earned land.

 

They got an intifada called against them for their trouble.

-=Mike

[Styles 0]

The Myths/Facts don't wash with me i'm afraid, respond with your own thoughts not the mantra of a pro-Israeli publication. I'm sure I could dig up plenty of Myths/Facts representing the Palestinian side, with them not necessarily representing the truth.

INXS, you ignorant slut.

Please feel free. If you want to try to back up your skewed, unfair, downright wrong and probably anti-semetic views, feel free, but I shudder at what sources you'd use. Just to clarify, I don't repost them to try to convince your braindead skull, but in case there are others less informed reading who may be swayed by your bile. This site actually uses facts and sites and crosschecks with mainstream sources and historical documents. My god, where to begin. As always brought to you from: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mftoc.html and by Snapple, mmmm its in the stuff....um... Here we go!

 

The UN had little choice but to recognize an Israeli state. Even Yasser Arafat recognized Israel. Why should the UN help out the security of Israel when their tactics are illegal and immoral?!

 

MYTH

 

“The United Nations unjustly partitioned Palestine.”

 

FACT

 

As World War II ended, the magnitude of the Holocaust became known. This accelerated demands for a resolution to the question of Palestine so the survivors of Hitler's "Final Solution" might find sanctuary in a homeland of their own.

 

The British tried to work out an agreement acceptable to both Arabs and Jews, but their insistence on the former's approval guaranteed failure because the Arabs would not make any concessions. They subsequently turned the issue over to the UN in February 1947.

 

The UN established a Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP) to devise a solution. Delegates from 11 nations* went to the area and found what had long been apparent: The conflicting national aspirations of Jews and Arabs could not be reconciled.

 

The contrasting attitudes of the two groups "could not fail to give the impression that the Jews were imbued with the sense of right and were prepared to plead their case before any unbiased tribunal, while the Arabs felt unsure of the justice of their cause, or were afraid to bow to the judgment of the nations."1

 

Although most of the Commission's members acknowledged the need to find a compromise solution, it was difficult for them to envision one given the parties' intractability. At a meeting with a group of Arabs in Beirut, the Czechoslovakian member of the Commission told his audience: "I have listened to your demands and it seems to me that in your view the compromise is: We want our demands met completely, the rest can be divided among those left."2

 

When they returned, the delegates of seven nations — Canada, Czechoslovakia, Guatemala, The Netherlands, Peru, Sweden and Uruguay — recommended the establishment of two separate states, Jewish and Arab, to be joined by economic union, with Jerusalem an internationalized enclave. Three nations — India, Iran and Yugoslavia — recommended a unitary state with Arab and Jewish provinces. Australia abstained.

 

The Jews of Palestine were not satisfied with the small territory allotted to them by the Commission, nor were they happy that Jerusalem was severed from the Jewish State; nevertheless, they welcomed the compromise. The Arabs rejected the UNSCOP's recommendations.

 

The ad hoc committee of the UN General Assembly rejected the Arab demand for a unitary Arab state. The majority recommendation for partition was subsequently adopted 33-13 with 10 abstentions on November 29, 1947.3

 

 

 

“It is hard to see how the Arab world, still less the Arabs of Palestine, will suffer from what is mere recognition of accomplished fact — the presence in Palestine of a compact, well organized, and virtually autonomous Jewish community.”

 

— London Times editorial4

 

 

Israel are the bad guys simply because since 1967, Jewish settlers occupied Palestinian territory, later forming Israel.

 

MYTH

 

"Israel viewed the territories it captured as conquered lands that were now part of Israel and had no intention of negotiating over their return."

 

FACT

 

By the end of the war, Israel had captured enough territory to more than triple the size of the area it controlled, from 8,000 to 26,000 square miles. The victory enabled Israel to unify Jerusalem. Israeli forces had also captured the Sinai, the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

 

Israel's leaders fully expected to negotiate a peace agreement with their neighbors that would involve some territorial compromise. Almost immediately after the war, Israel's leaders expressed their willingness to negotiate a return of at least some of the territories. Israel subsequently returned all of the Sinai to Egypt, territory claimed by Jordan was returned to the Hashemite Kingdom, and nearly all of the Gaza Strip and more than 40 percent of the West Bank was given to the Palestinians to establish the Palestinian Authority.

 

To date, approximately 93 percent of the territories won in the defensive war have been given by Israel to its Arab neighbors as a result of negotiations. This demonstrates Israel's willingness to trade land for peace.

 

 

Since then, Israel have continued to widen their borders and oppress the Palestinian people

 

MYTH

 

“Israel has been an expansionist state since its creation.”

 

FACT

 

Israel's boundaries were determined by the United Nations when it adopted the partition resolution in 1947. In a series of defensive wars, Israel captured additional territory. On numerous occasions, Israel has withdrawn from these areas.

 

As part of the 1974 disengagement agreement, Israel returned territories captured in the 1967 and 1973 wars to Syria.

 

Under the terms of the 1979 Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty, Israel withdrew from the Sinai peninsula for the third time. It had already withdrawn from large parts of the desert area it captured in its War of Independence. After capturing the entire Sinai in the 1956 Suez conflict, Israel relinquished the peninsula to Egypt a year later.

 

In September 1983, Israel withdrew from large areas of Lebanon to positions south of the Awali River. In 1985, it completed its withdrawal from Lebanon, except for a narrow security zone just north of the Israeli border. That too was abandoned, unilaterally, in 2000.

 

After signing peace agreements with the Palestinians, and a treaty with Jordan, Israel agreed to withdraw from most of the territory in the West Bank captured from Jordan in 1967. A small area was returned to Jordan, and more than 40 percent was ceded to the Palestinian Authority. The agreement with the Palestinians also involved Israel's withdrawal in 1994 from most of the Gaza Strip, which had been captured from Egypt in 1973.

 

To date, Israel has withdrawn from more than 40 percent of the West Bank and approximately 80 percent of the Gaza Strip, and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to withdraw from 95 percent of the West Bank and 100 percent of the Gaza Strip in a final settlement. In addition, Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and his successors offered to withdraw from virtually all of the Golan Heights in exchange for peace with Syria.

 

Negotiations continue regarding the final disposition of the remaining disputed territories in Israel's possession. Israel's willingness to make territorial concessions in exchange for security proves its goal is peace, not expansion.

 

even going so far as to build a huge wall further into Palestinian territory

 

MYTH

 

“Israel's so-called security fence is just like the Berlin Wall.”

 

FACT

 

Although critics have sought to portray the security fence as a kind of "Berlin Wall," it is nothing of the sort. First, unlike the Berlin Wall, the fence does not separate one people, Germans from Germans, and deny freedom to those on one side. Israel's security fence separates two peoples, Israelis and Palestinians, and offers freedom and security for both. Second, while Israelis are fully prepared to live with Palestinians, and 20 percent of the Israeli population is already Arab, it is the Palestinians who say they do not want to live with any Jews and call for the West Bank to be judenrein. Third, the fence is not being constructed to prevent the citizens of one state from escaping; it is designed solely to keep terrorists out of Israel. Finally, of the 458 miles scheduled to be constructed, only a tiny fraction of that (less than 3% or about 15 miles) is actually a 30 foot high concrete wall, and that is being built in three areas where it will prevent Palestinian snipers from around the terrorist hotbeds of Kalkilya and Tul Karm from shooting at cars as they have done for the last three years along the Trans-Israel Highway, one of the country's main roads. The wall also takes up less space than the other barriers, only about seven feet, so it did not have a great impact on the area where it was built.

 

Most of the barrier will be a chain-link type fence similar to those used all over the United States combined with underground and long-range sensors, unmanned aerial vehicles, trenches, landmines and guard paths. Manned checkpoints will constitute the only way to travel back and forth through the fence. The barrier is altogether about 160 feet wide in most places.

 

Israel did not want to build a fence, and resisted doing so for more than 35 years. If anyone is to blame for the construction, it is Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the other Palestinian terrorists. Perhaps the construction of the security fence may help stimulate the Palestinians to take action against the terrorists because the barrier has shown them there is a price to pay for sponsorsing terrorism.

 

 

not to mention the razing of refugee camps; camps that Palestinians were forced to set up and live in as their towns and villiages were occupied by Israel.

 

MYTH

 

"The Jews created the refugee problem by expelling the Palestinians."

 

FACT

 

Had the Arabs accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have become a refugee. An independent Arab state would now exist beside Israel. The responsibility for the refugee problem rests with the Arabs.

 

The beginning of the Arab exodus can be traced to the weeks immediately following the announcement of the UN partition resolution. The first to leave were roughly 30,000 wealthy Arabs who anticipated the upcoming war and fled to neighboring Arab countries to await its end. Less affluent Arabs from the mixed cities of Palestine moved to all-Arab towns to stay with relatives or friends.6 By the end of January1948, the exodus was so alarming the Palestine Arab Higher Committee asked neighboring Arab countries to refuse visas to these refugees and to seal their borders against them.7

 

On January 30, 1948, the Jaffa newspaper, Ash Sha'ab, reported: "The first of our fifth-column consists of those who abandon their houses and businesses and go to live elsewhere....At the first signs of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of struggle."8

 

Another Jaffa paper, As Sarih (March 30, 1948) excoriated Arab villagers near Tel Aviv for "bringing down disgrace on us all by 'abandoning the villages.'"9

 

Meanwhile, a leader of the Arab National Committee in Haifa, Hajj Nimer el-Khatib, said Arab soldiers in Jaffa were mistreating the residents. "They robbed individuals and homes. Life was of little value, and the honor of women was defiled. This state of affairs led many [Arab] residents to leave the city under the protection of British tanks."10

 

John Bagot Glubb, the commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, said: "Villages were frequently abandoned even before they were threatened by the progress of war."11

 

Contemporary press reports of major battles in which large numbers of Arabs fled conspicuously fail to mention any forcible expulsion by the Jewish forces. The Arabs are usually described as "fleeing" or "evacuating" their homes. While Zionists are accused of "expelling and dispossessing" the Arab inhabitants of such towns as Tiberias and Haifa, the truth is much different. Both of those cities were within the boundaries of the Jewish State under the UN partition scheme and both were fought for by Jews and Arabs alike.

 

Jewish forces seized Tiberias on April 19, 1948, and the entire Arab population of 6,000 was evacuated under British military supervision. The Jewish Community Council issued a statement afterward: "We did not dispossess them; they themselves chose this course....Let no citizen touch their property."12

 

In early April, an estimated 25,000 Arabs left the Haifa area following an offensive by the irregular forces led by Fawzi al-Qawukji, and rumors that Arab air forces would soon bomb the Jewish areas around Mt. Carmel.13 On April 23, the Haganah captured Haifa. A British police report from Haifa, dated April 26, explained that "every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe."14 In fact, David Ben-Gurion had sent Golda Meir to Haifa to try to persuade the Arabs to stay, but she was unable to convince them because of their fear of being judged traitors to the Arab cause.15 By the end of the battle, more than 50,000 Palestinians had left.

 

“Tens of thousands of Arab men, women and children fled toward the eastern outskirts of the city in cars, trucks, carts, and afoot in a desperate attempt to reach Arab territory until the Jews captured Rushmiya Bridge toward Samaria and Northern Palestine and cut them off. Thousands rushed every available craft, even rowboats, along the waterfront, to escape by sea toward Acre.”

 

— New York Times, (April 23, 1948)

 

 

In Tiberias and Haifa, the Haganah issued orders that none of the Arabs' possessions should be touched, and warned that anyone who violated the orders would be severely punished. Despite these efforts, all but about 5,000 or 6,000 Arabs evacuated Haifa, many leaving with the assistance of British military transports.

 

Syria's UN delegate, Faris el-Khouri, interrupted the UN debate on Palestine to describe the seizure of Haifa as a "massacre" and said this action was "further evidence that the 'Zionist program' is to annihilate Arabs within the Jewish state if partition is effected."16

 

The following day, however, the British representative at the UN, Sir Alexander Cadogan, told the delegates that the fighting in Haifa had been provoked by the continuous attacks by Arabs against Jews a few days before and that reports of massacres and deportations were erroneous.17

 

The same day (April 23, 1948), Jamal Husseini, the chairman of the Palestine Higher Committee, told the UN Security Council that instead of accepting the Haganah's truce offer, the Arabs "preferred to abandon their homes, their belongings, and everything they possessed in the world and leave the town."18

 

The U.S. Consul-General in Haifa, Aubrey Lippincott, wrote on April 22, 1948, for example, that "local mufti-dominated Arab leaders" were urging "all Arabs to leave the city, and large numbers did so."19

 

An army order issued July 6, 1948, made clear that Arab towns and villages were not to be demolished or burned, and that Arab inhabitants were not to be expelled from their homes.20

 

The Haganah did employ psychological warfare to encourage the Arabs to abandon a few villages. Yigal Allon, the commander of the Palmach (the "shock force of the Haganah"), said he had Jews talk to the Arabs in neighboring villages and tell them a large Jewish force was in Galilee with the intention of burning all the Arab villages in the Lake Hula region. The Arabs were told to leave while they still had time and, according to Allon, they did exactly that.21

 

In the most dramatic example, in the Ramle-Lod area, Israeli troops seeking to protect their flanks and relieve the pressure on besieged Jerusalem, forced a portion of the Arab population to go to an area a few miles away that was occupied by the Arab Legion. "The two towns had served as bases for Arab irregular units, which had frequently attacked Jewish convoys and nearby settlements, effectively barring the main road to Jerusalem to Jewish traffic."22

 

As was clear from the descriptions of what took place in the cities with the largest Arab populations, these cases were clearly the exceptions, accounting for only a small fraction of the Palestinian refugees.

 

 

Let's get this clear, the Palestinian people are not attacking Israel politically because of the hell of it - nor are the suicide bombers, who are nothing more than terrorists and for which there is no place in the world for them - it's because they are being oppressed by a people that after initially forming a state on their land which is bad enough, continues to take the piss and grab even more land.

 

MYTH

 

“The intifada was a spontaneous uprising, resulting solely from Arab anger at Israeli atrocities.”

 

FACT

 

False charges of Israeli atrocities and instigation from the Muslim clergy in the mosques played an important role in starting the intifada (popularly translated as "uprising," but literally means "shaking off"). On December 6, 1987, an Israeli was stabbed to death while shopping in Gaza. One day later, four residents of the Jabalya refugee camp in Gaza were killed in a traffic accident. Rumors that the four had been killed by Israelis as a deliberate act of revenge began to spread among the Palestinians.1 Mass rioting broke out in Jabalya on the morning of December 9, during which a 17-year-old youth was killed by an Israeli soldier after throwing a Molotov cocktail at an army patrol.2 This soon sparked a wave of unrest that engulfed the West Bank, Gaza and Jerusalem.

 

MYTH

 

“Violence is an understandable and legitimate reaction to Israel's policies.”

 

FACT

 

The basis of the peace process is that disputes should be resolved through negotiations. One of the conditions Israel set before agreeing to negotiate with the PLO was that the organization renounce terrorism. It formally did so; however, the PLO and other Palestinian groups and individuals have consistently resorted to violence since the Oslo process began in 1993. Whether or not Israel made concessions, Palestinians have still committed heinous attacks. In some instances atrocities are perpetrated because of alleged mistreatment; in other cases, they are deliberate efforts to sabotage negotiations. Regardless, the Palestinian Authority, which has a nearly 40,000-person police force (larger than allowed under the peace agreements), and multiple intelligence agencies, must be held responsible for keeping the peace.

 

Israeli Civilians and IDF Forces Killed in “Al-Aksa Intifida”23

(Sept. 29, 2000 - September 13, 2004)

Israeli Civilians Security Forces Total

Rocks 2 0 2

Stabbing 6 0 6

Running Over 1 7 8

Lynching 17 2 19

Shooting 98 107 205

Drive-By Shooting 28 9 37

Shooting at Vehicle from an Ambush 69 13 82

Shootings at Towns and Villages 16 6 22

Shootings at Military Installations 0 26 26

Bombings 24 38 62

Suicide Bombings 397 48 445

Car Bombs 15 23 38

Mortar Bombs 3 1 4

Anti-Tank Missiles 0 11 11

Other 1 4 5

Total 677 295 972

 

MYTH

 

“Palestinians attack Israeli forces in spontaneous outbursts of frustration.”

 

FACT

 

Occasionally, Palestinians riot spontaneously for any number of reasons, from frustration to anger. More often, however, Palestinian violence is premeditated and planned by either terrorist cells within the Palestinian Authority or by the PA's own leaders. In the summer of 2001, for example, Palestinian commanders circulated instructions on confronting Israeli troops. The orders included the preparation of Molotov cocktails, hand grenades and barricades. Explosive "belts" were to be prepared for "hundreds of suicide youths who will be willing to confront the advancing troops." The insturctions also suggested conserving ammunition and attacking tanks only with "suitable weapons" and not with light guns. "Forward positions should be established by fighters willing to sacrifice their lives to stop the advancing enemy."46

 

“Israel is at war with an enemy that declines, in its shrewdness and its cowardice, to fight Israel's soldiers, but is instead murdering its civilians, its women and children.”

 

— Michael Kelly4

 

 

MYTH

 

“Palestinians do not encourage children to engage in terror.”

 

FACT

 

Most Palestinians who adopt terror in the hope of either “ending the occupation” or destroying Israel do so because they freely choose murder over any other option. Palestinian terrorists also use children, however, to do their dirty work. On March 15, 2004, for example, Israeli security forces caught an 11-year-old boy attempting to smuggle a bomb through a roadblock. The boy was promised a large sum of money by Tanzim activists in Nablus if he delivered a bag containing a bomb stuffed with bolts to a woman on the other side of the checkpoint. If the boy was stopped and searched, the terrorists who sent him planned to use a cell phone to immediately detonate the 15 to 22 pounds of explosives he was carrying, murdering nearby soldiers as well as the boy. The plan was foiled by an alert Israeli soldier, and the bomb apparently malfunctioned when the terrorists tried to remotely detonate it. A week later, on March 24, 2004, a 14-year-old Palestinian child was found to be carrying explosives when attempting to pass through the Israeli army checkpoint at Huwara, at the entrance of the town of Nablus.86

 

These were just the latest examples of the cynical use of children by Palestinians waging war on Israel. Young Palestinians are routinely indoctrinated and coerced into the cult of martyrdom.

 

“Using children to carry out or assist in armed attacks of any kind is an abomination. We call on the Palestinian leadership to publicly denounce these practices.”

 

— Amnesty International87

 

 

 

 

Despite occasional claims that terror is only promoted by “extremists,” the truth is the Palestinian Authority (PA) has consistently incited its youth to violence. Children are taught that the greatest glory is to die for Allah in battle as a Shahada. The PA regularly broadcasts television shows that encourage children to embrace this concept. One film uses the death of Muhammad Al-Dura, the child killed in the crossfire of a shootout between Palestinian gunmen and Israeli forces, to show that life after death is paradise. An actor playing Al-Dura is shown in an amusement park, playing on the beach, and flying a kite. The Al-Dura in the film invites viewers to follow him. Similar messages extolling the virtue of the Shahid can be found in school textbooks and sermons by Muslim clergy.88

 

The indoctrination is having an impact. According to one Palestinian newspaper, 79-80% of children told pollsters they were willing to be Shahids.89

 

Palestinian children now play death games, competing to see who will be the Shahid. They also collect “terrorist cards” the way American kids collect baseball cards. The maker of the Palestinian cards sold 6 million in just over two years. “I take hundreds of these pictures from children every day and burn them,” said Saher Hindi, a teacher at a Nablus elementary school. “They turn children into extremists.”90

 

Many Palestinian youngsters have gone from pretending to carrying out actual terrorist attacks. More than two dozen suicide bombers have been under the age of 18. Since 2001, more than 40 other minors involved in planning suicide bombings were arrested. In the last three years, 22 shootings and bombings have been carried out by minors. For example, teens ages 11-14 attempted to smuggle munitions from Egypt into the Gaza Strip; three teenagers, ages 13-15, were arrested on their way to carry out a shooting attack in Afula; and a 17-year-old blew himself up in an attempted suicide attack.91

 

The situation has finally gotten so out of hand that Palestinian families are starting to protest. The mother of one of the three teenagers sent to carry out the Afula attack said of the letter he had left behind, “My son doesn’t know how to write a letter like that and has never belonged to one of the organizations. Some grownup wrote the letter for him.” The boy’s father added, “Nobody can accept to send his children to be slaughtered. I am sure that whoever recruits children in this kind of unlawful activity will not recruit his own children.”92

 

“As one of the Islamic fanatics who inspired al-Qaida said: ‘We are not trying to negotiate with you. We are trying to destroy you.’...They wish to destroy the whole basis of Western society — secular democracy, individual liberty, equality before the law, toleration and pluralism — and replace it with a theocracy based on a perverted and dogmatic interpretation of the Koran....The idea that we should try to appease the terrorists is wrong in every respect. It would not protect us, for nothing acts as a greater incentive to terrorists than the realization that their target is weak and frightened. And it would only weaken the institutions we are trying to protect, and demonstrate to the terrorists that we are — as they frequently allege — too decadent and craven to defend the way of life to which we claim to be attached.”

 

— London Daily Telegraph93

 

[bob_barron 0]

I knew you'd come through for us Slapnuts!

[Styles 0]

It is not anti-semite to oppose the policies of Israel.

No, I'm afraid you are. And just so you say I don't have any opinions of my own, yes I do...you're a moron. Now here's the backup for my argument!

 

MYTH

 

“Advocates for Israel try to silence critics by labeling them anti-Semitic.”

 

FACT

 

Criticizing Israel does not necessarily make someone anti-Semitic. The determining factor is the intent of the commentator. Legitimate critics accept Israel's right to exist, whereas anti-Semites do not. Anti-Semites use double standards when they criticize Israel, for example, denying Israelis the right to pursue their legitimate claims while encouraging the Palestinians to do so. Anti-Semites deny Israel the right to defend itself, and ignore Jewish victims, while blaming Israel for pursuing their murderers. Anti-Semites rarely, if ever, make positive statements about Israel. Anti-Semites describe Israelis using pejorative terms and hate-speech, suggesting, for example, that they are "racists" or "Nazis."

 

No campaign exists to prevent people from expressing negative opinions about Israeli policy. In fact, the most vociferous critics of Israel are Israelis themselves who use their freedom of speech to express their concerns every day. A glance at any Israeli newspaper will reveal a surfeit of articles questioning particular government policies. Anti-Semites, however, do not share Israelis' interest in improving the society; their goal is to delegitimize the state in the short-run, and destroy it in the long-run. There is nothing Israel could do to satisfy these critics.

 

If it quacks like a duck...

[Guest BDC]

If it quacks like a duck...

Then shoot the damn thing and put this out of its misery.

[Guest INXS]

Wow slapnuts..posting myths and facts from Jewish Virtual Library - a REALLY balanced source you ignorant slut.

[bob_barron 0]

Wow slapnuts..posting myths and facts from Jewish Virtual Library - a REALLY balanced source you ignorant slut.

Did you not read what he wrote you Anti-Semetic waste of sperm?

 

That site backs up EVERYTHING with facts, figures, credible sources, cross referencing sources- everything to ensure the information they give is 100% correct.

 

The only things you seem to be able to post is your Anti-Semtic anti-Israel drivel that has no factual information to back itself up.

 

INXS: Israel is bad.

Slapnuts: No- as you can see thanks to all these sources and references- Israel really isn't that bad.

INXS: Well it's from a Jewish site and I hate Jews so it must be bad

[Guest INXS]

No no no no no - are you even fucking reading?

 

Anti-Israeli? - yes, to a certain dergree.

 

Anti-Semetic? - Fuck no.

 

I don't hate Jews and AGAIN, read it S L O W L Y - IT IS NOT ANTI SEMETIC TO CRITICIZE THE POLICIES OF ISRAEL.

 

Is it Anti american to criticize that tard Bush? No it isn't.

 

As for the drivel that passes as Myths and Facts that Slapnuts likes to post that you wank over, it is not an independent source! For fucks sake..

[bob_barron 0]

No no no no no - are you even fucking reading?

 

Yes.

 

Anti-Israeli? - yes, to a certain dergree.

 

That's because your an idiot who doesn't want a Jewish state to live in peace.

 

Anti-Semetic? - Fuck no.

 

I don't hate Jews and AGAIN, read it S L O W L Y - IT IS NOT ANTI SEMETIC TO CRITICIZE THE POLICIES OF ISRAEL.

 

No it's not. But the way you criticise them makes you seem anti-Semetic.

 

Is it Anti american to criticize that tard Bush? No it isn't.

 

I thought you didn't hate anyone!

 

As for the drivel that passes as Myths and Facts that Slapnuts likes to post that you wank over, it is not an independent source! For fucks sake..

 

Why?

 

Because it's written by Jews?

 

Or is it because it backs up everything it says with facts, figures, referencing and all that good stuff?

 

Because you can never prove any of your points and that site exposes for you for the fuckwit you are?

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

INXS: the truth doesn't phase me.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Whaddya say we make INXS a big old plate of potato pancakes.

[Guest INXS]

What are potato pancakes? I'll have a big mac tho..

[The Czech Republic 0]

INXS, a true global citizen

[Guest INXS]

I had a Big Mac today actually, with large fries!

[Styles 0]

I had a Big Mac today actually, with large fries!

I don't think that's Kosher!

 

Heh, I find it funny that I started posting from this site I found since it makes the counterarguments better than I can, and all of a sudden Im like the defender of Jews or something. Maybe I should change my sn to Moses?

[The Czech Republic 0]

how about Rabbi Slapnuts

[Vyce 0]

*slaps forehead*

 

I don't know why I bother, but:

 

INXS, READ THE FUCKING WEBSITE that Slapnuts got the myths & facts from. He's provided the link before; if you need it again, just ask.

 

You'll see that the site backs up everything it claims with various sources - why, one of the sources they've even cited is the New York Times, which has about the biggest hard-on AGAINST Israel that a media outlet not named "Al-Jazeera" can have.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Is that all I am to you?    What about my funny picture stories?

Don't piss and moan at me, but I don't find those picture stories that funny. However, they seem to be popular here so I just keep my mouth shut and let you crazy kids do your thing.

 

Do you throw a fit like this when you play poker and the other guy takes your chips when he has a better hand?

 

No, he just blames Bush...

[Styles 0]

Is that all I am to you?    What about my funny picture stories?

Don't piss and moan at me, but I don't find those picture stories that funny. However, they seem to be popular here so I just keep my mouth shut and let you crazy kids do your thing.

Damn straight...

 

It's time for...HISTORY OF THE WORLD...WITH YOUR HOST....

 

INXS!

Hello there, I'm INXS, and I'm here to take you on a journey through history. Let's start back in 1964, the year World War II started...

 

"US troops marched through the streets of Germany to start an unjust war with the German people, because of the massive oil reserves found in Germany's capital of Beirut.

 

The US "president" at the time, George HW Bush, father of currect US dictator and world terrorist, George W. Bush, claimed they were attacking because Adolph Hitler was a "threat" to America and was abusing his own people."

 

Now, while no one denies Hitler was a bad man, it seems his reputation was greatly skewed by the American administration looking to use him to justify their agressive, imperialistic ventures.

 

"As demonstrated in this footage, Hitler was actually beloved by the German people, and was a strong advocate for women's rights. He was democratically elected and the US had no right to tell the German people who should be their leader."

 

As if that wasn't awful enough, the Americans decided they should persecute the Japanese people as well, and for no good justifiable reason and in clear violation of the Geneva Convention (established apprx. 200 years prior to this unjust war), kidnapped thousands of innocent Japanese, stuck them in concentration camps where it was estimated by the UN (an organization at the time that voted against the American war in Germany as illegal), that over 5 million Japanese were murdered in these death camps.

 

Well, that's all the time we have this episode. Join me next time as we'll explore how the US attempted to take over Southeast Asia and stole Arab land to give to greedy land grabbing Jews. For my posse of horny gay friends, I'm INXS saying "toodlepip!"

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Didn't realize INXS had that bad a complexion...

[Vyce 0]

Wow, he looks completely different than what I pictured him to be.

 

Honestly, I thought he was like 14 or something.

[Guest MikeSC]

Wow, he looks completely different than what I pictured him to be.

 

Honestly, I thought he was like 14 or something.

No, just repellant.

-=Mike

[Guest INXS]

Damn Slapnuts!, that was one funny post, i'm kinda honored!

 

I hope you're not going to turn into a stalker or something tho...toodlepip!