How will Ric Flair be remembered

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Remembered by who?

 

Someone who is born 25 years from now, after Flair is dead and most of his hardcore fans have little influence on somone who would be born during that time, I think Flair will be looked at as someone who was charismatic in the ring and that's about it.

[Guest LooneyTune]

This thread is a classic example of how the majority of Ric Flair fans will remember him: With selected ignorance. They'll talk at length about Steamboat, Tsuruta, Race and Rhodes but ignore the cluelessness in the ring, HHH cocksucking and all-around terrible wrestling and senility that he's been showcasing the last few years.

^ Probably the most reasonable post I've read...until RRRudo's post, which was right after it.

[Shooting Star 0]

As a great wrestler...i don't think anyone will remember about the his time as the evolution manager but mostly about his time in NWA just like everybody remembers Babe Ruth in the yankees and not the Dodgers.

[Slickster 0]

Harley Race's years a manager in WCW are a blip, a footnote in his legacy.

Ric Flair's will be too, in my opinion.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

Harley Race's years a manager in WCW are a blip, a footnote in his legacy.

Ric Flair's will be too, in my opinion.

And considering how much less important Race was in the grand scheme of things, this speaks volumes for how Flair will be remembered.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think people 25-35 years from now who will look back at Flair's "great matches" will be like "what's the big deal?". *I* feel that way already, for the most part, and I've had the influence of guys like Meltzer saying "Greatest Wrestler Ever!" clouding my perspective. When the Flair Rah-Rah guys are gone, then future folk will actually have to look at his *work* which I don't think will stand up, because it doesn't even stand up today.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

That'll be a true test of Flair's longevity: When an objective group of wrestling fans (which Ric Flair fans are not) can get together and not be bombarded with "Greatest of All Time" comments and take a good look at exactly what he did and how much it meant.

[Guest Fook_Theta]

I will remember him as the hometown playboy that could win a match with the figure-four. A submission move that now means absolutely nothing, even if it is the "Bret Hart" style ringpost one. Even if someone did it hanging from the rafters I don't think they'd tap.

[Guest Coffey]

I think people 25-35 years from now who will look back at Flair's "great matches" will be like "what's the big deal?". *I* feel that way already, for the most part, and I've had the influence of guys like Meltzer saying "Greatest Wrestler Ever!" clouding my perspective. When the Flair Rah-Rah guys are gone, then future folk will actually have to look at his *work* which I don't think will stand up, because it doesn't even stand up today.

Meltzer saying that also probably built up your expectations too high as well. Then you add in the time frame.

 

Ric Flair will be looked at by future fans the way Bruno and Vern are looked at now.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

There was a time when I would have said Flair was the best wrestler ever and that was largely based on hype. Not as a kid either, just a few years ago (2000, 2001). My expectations were high, because I expected to see some great matches out of Flair and I couldn't even get through some of his so called greatest matches. They were just boring and repetitive. But that was more because I've seen MUCH better from even his _contemporaries_, let alone guys who have wrestled a generation after. If todays style makes Flairs outdated, imagine what will happen a few decades from now when wrestling has evolved even more.

 

I think the Bruno reference is probably the most accurate.

[Guest Duncan Eternia]

I used to think he'd be remembered in much the same way as Willie Mays, in that he hung around too long, but most of those memories will fade away in the public imagination. But he keeps on hanging around, so it's going to be tough to judge. Personally, I think it's tainted him pretty heavilly.

I don't think he is tainted at all. Blassie wrestled into his 50s. As did (does) Funk, Abdullah, and others. Flair still puts on entertaining matches. I feel that if he wants to add to a show then so be it. I do think though that he should be wrestling on a limited basis - make his matches seem more special/important. He had a great match with HHH for the title on RAW last year. Something like that should be done with Flair more often. But that's just my opinion.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Does anyone look at Blassie and Abdullah in the "greatest wrestlers of all time" category? Were they EVER looked in that regard? Blassie relied more on charisma than in-ring ability, ditto with Abby. Charisma can carry over into your 50's, wrestling skills? Not really. And Terry Funk has certainly been tainted by hanging on too long.

 

HHH vs. Flair was not a great match.

 

Flair, today, is entertaining in the wrong way.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Abdullah The Butcher? HA! Stabbing people with forks is hardly considered talented. His gimmick is entertaining (psycho with a fork), but great? Pfft.

[gwf0704 0]

That'll be a true test of Flair's longevity: When an objective group of wrestling fans (which Ric Flair fans are not) can get together and not be bombarded with "Greatest of All Time" comments and take a good look at exactly what he did and how much it meant.

Do you mean by the objectivity shown by non Ric Flair wrestling fans? Isn't that being a little hypocritical?

[Guest Duncan Eternia]

Abdullah The Butcher? HA! Stabbing people with forks is hardly considered talented. His gimmick is entertaining (psycho with a fork), but great? Pfft.

 

Does anyone look at Blassie and Abdullah in the "greatest wrestlers of all time" category? Were they EVER looked in that regard? Blassie relied more on charisma than in-ring ability, ditto with Abby. Charisma can carry over into your 50's, wrestling skills? Not really. And Terry Funk has certainly been tainted by hanging on too long.

 

HHH vs. Flair was not a great match.

 

Flair, today, is entertaining in the wrong way.

I'm sorry but I personally think HHH vs. Flair was great for the simple fact that it was Flair coming close to winning the belt. It was a good story-style match if you know what I mean. I enjoyed it. Abby - OK, not the best example. But the point is this - - look at the RAW roster right now. WWE is hell bent on getting untalented guys so why not have Flair, a guy who can actually entertain on the show. Like I said, it should be in more of a speaking role and wrestling just here and there. I'm not the biggest Flair mark in the world, but I would still pay to see him.

[jester 0]

Flair's glory days were with promotions that don't exist anymore.

 

The one promotion that is left standing rewrites history as it pleases.

 

And to the majority of fans, WWE IS wrestling.

 

Flair will be remembered as HHH's flunky, but "the old wrestling fans really liked him for some reason."

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

I think Terry Funk has only added to his legacy by continuing to wrestle. Heck, I darn near bought an XPW DVD solely because Funk was on the cover.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I'm sorry but I personally think HHH vs. Flair was great for the simple fact that it was Flair coming close to winning the belt.

 

Ok. You think it's a great match because "Flair came close to winning the belt"? I'm sorry but I personally think that's a piss poor reason for calling it great. Especially when HHH does it 4 times a year with various other guys.

 

It was a good story-style match if you know what I mean.

 

It's the same story as HHH/Maven, HHH/Hurricane, HHH/Benjamin, HHH/Taka. THOSE are great matches as well?

 

WWE is hell bent on getting untalented guys so why not have Flair, a guy who can actually entertain on the show.

 

Every time he is in the ring he exposes the business. He is painfully repetitive. He isn't worth the investment of time because he has no potential to grow. He has never given any wrestler a rub or gotten them over in his time in the WWE. Why not? He's old. He sucks.

 

Like I said, it should be in more of a speaking role and wrestling just here and there. I'm not the biggest Flair mark in the world, but I would still pay to see him.

 

He should never wrestle, and he can't function as a manager. His personality doesn't work with that role.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think Terry Funk has only added to his legacy by continuing to wrestle. Heck, I darn near bought an XPW DVD solely because Funk was on the cover.

You've got to be kidding me. How many people associate Terry Funk as the great NWA champion and how many people assocate Terry Funk as the Middle-Aged Crazy guy? The picture in my mind when I think of Terry Funk is

 

This

 

 

not this...

 

 

I think that would be pretty consistent with most wrestling fans, and certainly will be when those who saw him in the 60's and 70's die off.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

That'll be a true test of Flair's longevity: When an objective group of wrestling fans (which Ric Flair fans are not) can get together and not be bombarded with "Greatest of All Time" comments and take a good look at exactly what he did and how much it meant.

Do you mean by the objectivity shown by non Ric Flair wrestling fans? Isn't that being a little hypocritical?

Flair marks have difficulty in dealing with the fact that he has sucked on many, many occasions.

[Guest Coffey]

That's why they're marks. Just like Bret Hart marks and Shawn Michaels marks.

[Guest Duncan Eternia]

I'm sorry but I personally think HHH vs. Flair was great for the simple fact that it was Flair coming close to winning the belt.

 

Ok.  You think it's a great match because "Flair came close to winning the belt"?  I'm sorry but I personally think that's a piss poor reason for calling it great.  Especially when HHH does it 4 times a year with various other guys.

 

It was a good story-style match if you know what I mean.

 

It's the same story as HHH/Maven, HHH/Hurricane, HHH/Benjamin, HHH/Taka.  THOSE are great matches as well?

 

WWE is hell bent on getting untalented guys so why not have Flair, a guy who can actually entertain on the show.

 

Every time he is in the ring he exposes the business.  He is painfully repetitive.  He isn't worth the investment of time because he has no potential to grow.  He has never given any wrestler a rub or gotten them over in his time in the WWE.  Why not?  He's old.  He sucks.

 

Like I said, it should be in more of a speaking role and wrestling just here and there. I'm not the biggest Flair mark in the world, but I would still pay to see him.

 

He should never wrestle, and he can't function as a manager.  His personality doesn't work with that role.

As far as in-ring work goes...no those are not classics nor "great". However, I enjoy surprises in wrestling. Who wasn't surprised when Benjamin went over HHH. HHH and TAKA had what I thought to be one of the top RAW matches that year. The Maven thing had me going too, because he is a fresh face in the title picture and for a few seconds I actually thought he had the match. I personally enjoy those type of moments in wrestling.

 

Flair's match with H I think is great not just because "Flair came close to winning the title". It was a decent match between the current champ and and guy that was great before and is now washed up, but nearly makes a comeback. (Think of the later Rocky movies, how can you not cheer for him!) I think storylines like that are a lot better than kicking babies into the crowd and Heidenrape!

 

You make some good points Rudo and in an ideal wrestling world new and more talented guys would be showcased with good booking. But as you well know WWE just doesn't give us, the most loyal (and critical) fans what we want.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Flair/HHH from the night in question was great...in an emotional way. If by match quality, it was a good match for HHH considering the stinkers he had to do with Scott Steiner & Kevin Nash, but an average match overall that only went around 7:00.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

When do you guys think Flair should have retired before he pissed away his legacy?

[Guest bigm350]

When do you guys think Flair should have retired before he pissed away his legacy?

When WCW was bought by the WWF.

[Guest LooneyTune]

1998 when he was being used like crap and was on-again-off-again with management.

[Guest Loss]

1993, after Starrcade.

[Promoter 0]

You know how I think future fans will look at Flair? Something like they will look at Sting. Big fish in an organization that no longer exists and his legend has grown from that mantra. This may sound harsh, but it's the truth. I really believe Flair's DVD sold so well because a lot of people never saw those matches to begin with. I like Flair and all(as he is great, but not as he is billed), but the truth is for all his "greatness" his run in the wwf in 1992 nowhere lived up to the hype of his legend and I bet the company will focus on that timeframe in the future as the 80's and Hulk Hogan will always be remembered as its golden goose years. This is taking into account that the wwe will even be standing in 20 years in the same manner it is today.

[Guest OSIcon]

Personally, while I wish that Flair would have retied years ago (at the very latest, when WCW was sold), he isn't tarnishing his legacy in my mind. To me, there are very things any person can do in the present to tarnish their legacy. For example, Michael Jordan had a couple of mediocre years for the Wizards. The team played poor and Jordan, while having momets that reflected his old greatness, was hardly the same player. However, to me, that doesn't effect his legacy in the sport at all. Regardless of what he did with the Wizards, he was *still* the greatest basketball player of all time....he just wasn't *as* good when he became older and riddled with injuries.

 

I view Flair the same way. He is a shell of his former self right now in every aspect: in-ring ability, prescense, importance, promos, ect. However, that still doesn't take away form the fact that in his prime, there may have never been as solid of an all around wrestler than Flair. His legacy to those who saw him in his peel, will be what the same as *most* professional athletes and pro wrestlers who are remembered as "great". Which is, at one time he was one of the greatest in pro wrestling and his skill diminished with age after a lengthy career. There are a ton of athletes we can say that about; guys who were great but stuck around long enough (or too long) to the point where their skills were greatly diminished. That doesn't take away from their legacy to the people that saw them perform in their primes.

 

The thing is, Flair sticking around so long has its positives and negatives. The negative has already been outlined. The positive, is that his WWF run and DVD release exposed him to a lot of fans that had *never* seen his work before. It is easy to say that Flair should have retired years ago and he could have gone out "on top" (or near the top) of his game, while being remembered fondly by most wrestling fans. Honestly, I don't know if that would have been true. By sticking around so long, he *has* been able to to get himself noticed by several eras of wrestling fans. It was short of a give-and-take deal.

 

It is sad but true that Flair probably won't be remembered by a lot of current fans for being as great as he was. Whether or not you feel Flair was overrated as a wrestler is inconseuqential, because most everyone who has seen his work in his prime willa gree that he was a great overall package. The best wrestler of all time in terms of in-ring skill? No. One of the, or the, greatest all around wrestling packages of all time? Yes. Too bad he probably won't be remembered that way, do in part to the fact that NWA and WCW are overlooked by many current fans.

[RHR 0]

I think it is similar to the Beatles or Elvis. There are alot of uninformed and/or ignorant kids who think nothing of them. But, those in the know, respect the legacy of true genius/performance.

 

Think about it, Paul McCartney still plays arenas worldwide. The Who, Fleetwood Mac, etc....and no, they are no where near their creative peaks, but, people still show up.

 

Flair is one of the Elvises of wrestling. He will always be respected and loved by those who know. He has earned that right. Kudos to the WWE for such a great DVD collection, becasue now, young kids can see why people go "WOOOOO"