So Bonds admits to using steriods "Unknowingly"

[Some Guy 0]

Max Kellerman, on his hit show, "I,Max" pointed out that Babe Ruth used a corked bat. Cheating is baseball is nothing new, so singling out Bonds isn't right. And even before he used steroids he was still ahead of the other players, including McGwire and Sosa, until they started using performance enhancers.

 

"I,Max" at 6 pm and late night, only on Fox Sports Net.

So, your supporting Max Kellerman's argument that is in essence: "Since other people have cheated in the past and didn't get caught/punished for it, it is therefore unfair to pick on someone who is cheating in the present." Umm.... This is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's like saying, "Since OJ Simpson wasn't convicted of murdering his wife then Scott Peterson shouldn't have been either.

 

Excusing someone's actions based on the premise that it isn't really wrong because other people have done it is really weak. Barry Bonds cheated. Period. End of discussion. He and others have done a huge diservice for the game of baseball, the game that made him rich, the game that made him famous. But he doesn't care about that. He only cares about himself. He's a typical self indulgent, ego-maniacal athlete. I actually beleive that he truly feels that he is telling the truth, though. I think he has deluded himself into believing his own bullshit.

 

He, the Giambi's, Sosa, McGwire, and whoever else may have cheated have forever stained the very thing that that they cheated to establish and that is their legacies and their reputations.

 

As far as people saying, "well it wasn't illegal in baseball when these guys were doing it": This is another foolish point. Takign steriods is against the law. Last I checked the laws of America and her states trump MLB rules. These men were not only cheating, they were breaking the law (rather brazenly in some cases). But, I suppose that since MLB didn't have "the clear" on it's banned susbstance list then it was OK to take it. Hell, to listen to some of you it almost sounds like you feel that Bud Selig bent these guys over and stuck a needle up their asses himself. I hope that Bonds, the Giambi's, and whoever else turns up is suspended formt eh game for life. It's time for baseball to take an unwavering stand and cut this shit out.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Suspend every player then, because to recover from injuries, players are sometimes given medical drugs that are types steroids, to help build the muscles again because of breaks, serious sprains or tears, or whatever.

 

The only players left are the bench-warmers who play 1 game a year and thus no one cares what they do.

[Some Guy 0]

Suspend every player then, because to recover from injuries, players are sometimes given medical drugs that are types steroids, to help build the muscles again because of breaks, serious sprains or tears, or whatever.

 

The only players left are the bench-warmers who play 1 game a year and thus no one cares what they do.

Being legally perscribed drugs by a doctor to help recover from injury/surgery is slightly different from purchasing and taking illegal drugs from a personal trainer in order to help you hit more home runs.

 

For some reason I didn't think that I need to clarify that in my prior post. the fact that you point that out (apparently without any hint of irony) further erodes my faith in the Balco boy's rumpswabs.

 

Just to make it a little more clear I'll repeat it slowly.

 

C-h-e-a-t-i-n-g i-s w-r-o-n-g. B-o-n-d-s c-h-e-a-t-e-d.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

As far as people saying, "well it wasn't illegal in baseball when these guys were doing it": This is another foolish point. Takign steriods is against the law. Last I checked the laws of America and her states trump MLB rules. These men were not only cheating, they were breaking the law (rather brazenly in some cases).

 

Breaking baseball rules, and breaking the law are two different things. If breaking the law is cheating in baseball, then let's exclude Willie Mays and Hank Aaron from the record books for taking recreational drugs. Hell, why not ban Babe Ruth for drinking during prohibition?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I would like to clarify a few thoughts on the subject.

 

1. Taking steroids is an undesireable element of professional sports, and some steps need to be taken. But at the same time, we need to take a broader look at the issue of performance enhancement in professional sports, because it is likely we will see more ambiguous issues down the road.

 

2. We do not know to what extent steroids benefit athletes in professional baseball. Even with steroids widely available, Bonds is still vastly outperforming his peers.

 

3. There are doubtless several pitchers who have taken steroids as well. Derrick Turnbow was banned from international play for two years because of a positive steroid test.

 

4. We know 5-7% of players tested positive. There are many names out there besides Bonds, Sheffield, and Giambi. So before you call for banishments, remember the next victim could be your team's star hitter.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

2. We do not know to what extent steroids benefit athletes in professional baseball. Even with steroids widely available, Bonds is still vastly outperforming his peers.

No one said Bonds isn't a great baseball player. Maybe without the 'roids he would be hitting 30-40 HRs a year instead. That's still pretty damn good for a 40 something year old man...

[The Czech Republic 0]

Max Kellerman, on his hit show, "I,Max" pointed out that Babe Ruth used a corked bat. Cheating is baseball is nothing new, so singling out Bonds isn't right. And even before he used steroids he was still ahead of the other players, including McGwire and Sosa, until they started using performance enhancers.

 

"I,Max" at 6 pm and late night, only on Fox Sports Net.

So, your supporting Max Kellerman's argument that is in essence: "Since other people have cheated in the past and didn't get caught/punished for it, it is therefore unfair to pick on someone who is cheating in the present." Umm.... This is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's like saying, "Since OJ Simpson wasn't convicted of murdering his wife then Scott Peterson shouldn't have been either.

A corked bat didn't make Babe Ruth throw harder, run faster, swing harder, withstand injuries better, or be such an intimidating presence that pitchers walked his body-armored ass at every plate appearance in fear of an instant homer. It just took a few negligible ounces of the weight off his baseball bat. To me, there's a huge difference in the two.

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

Max Kellerman, on his hit show, "I,Max" pointed out that Babe Ruth used a corked bat. Cheating is baseball is nothing new, so singling out Bonds isn't right. And even before he used steroids he was still ahead of the other players, including McGwire and Sosa, until they started using performance enhancers.

 

"I,Max" at 6 pm and late night, only on Fox Sports Net.

So, your supporting Max Kellerman's argument that is in essence: "Since other people have cheated in the past and didn't get caught/punished for it, it is therefore unfair to pick on someone who is cheating in the present." Umm.... This is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's like saying, "Since OJ Simpson wasn't convicted of murdering his wife then Scott Peterson shouldn't have been either.

A corked bat didn't make Babe Ruth throw harder, run faster, swing harder, withstand injuries better, or be such an intimidating presence that pitchers walked his body-armored ass at every plate appearance in fear of an instant homer. It just took a few negligible ounces of the weight off his baseball bat. To me, there's a huge difference in the two.

Steroids didn't make Bonds able to make contact with any pitch that comes across the plate. Steroids usually contribute to injury. Steroids haven't enhanced Bonds batting average.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Of course they didn't make him able to make contact with any pitch, because I've seen him strike out before. Your hyperbolic claim has no place here. Steroid use will lead to long-term injury, but short-term physical dominance. Being a hulking behemoth in body armor who you can't even pitch inside to, let alone drill a nice 95-mph heater straight into, helps your batting average too. Hits sure are magnified when you don't have any plate appearances counted as at-bats.

[Some Guy 0]

As far as people saying, "well it wasn't illegal in baseball when these guys were doing it": This is another foolish point. Takign steriods is against the law. Last I checked the laws of America and her states trump MLB rules. These men were not only cheating, they were breaking the law (rather brazenly in some cases).

 

Breaking baseball rules, and breaking the law are two different things. If breaking the law is cheating in baseball, then let's exclude Willie Mays and Hank Aaron from the record books for taking recreational drugs. Hell, why not ban Babe Ruth for drinking during prohibition?

Recreational drugs, if anything would hinder an althletes ability to perform. Steroids would help a player's ability to perform. You are comparing two totally different things. Otis Nixon, Strawberry, and Doc Gooden all saw their careers and reputations take a huge hit when they fell into recreational drugs. Bonds saw his career soar even higher when he began taking steroids. I have a friend who took steriods for about 6 months. He gained about 30 lbs of muscle mass, which would otherwise be impossible without chemical enhancement and he was 22 at the time. Barry Bonds packed on that amount or more and he did it in his mid to late 30s.

 

2. We do not know to what extent steroids benefit athletes in professional baseball. Even with steroids widely available, Bonds is still vastly outperforming his peers.

 

True, but he was always a great player who outperformed most of his peers. Now he's a great player who felt it necessary to cheat to become even better. Whether it was greed or ego or whatever, it still doens't change the fact that he cheated.

 

3. There are doubtless several pitchers who have taken steroids as well. Derrick Turnbow was banned from international play for two years because of a positive steroid test.

 

And this has what to do with the argument at hand? One cannot excuse someone's cheating by pointing out another's. They and everyone else who took steroids were all wrong and put themselves ahead of the game that provided them with millions and betrayed the fans who cheered them on.

 

4. We know 5-7% of players tested positive. There are many names out there besides Bonds, Sheffield, and Giambi. So before you call for banishments, remember the next victim could be your team's star hitter.

 

Some of us are unwilling to compromise our morality because a member of our team is a cheater. If a member of the Red Sox was exposed as a cheater, I would feel cheated. I would be leading the charge to get his ass the fuck out of town. I have no use for it. Jeremy Giambi, admitted to cheating while he was a member of the team. I used to think that he was just a poor player, who was grossly over-rated by the sabermetricians. Now I think that he is a poor player, who was grossly over-rated by the sabermatricians who cheated and still sucked. I;m glad that he was dumped after the 2003 season and now that I know he is a cheater I hope he never gets another AB in the Majors. I wouldn't care if it was Manny, Ortis, or whoever else. If they cheated they should be punished.\

 

So far you haven't provided one reasonable defense for Bond's, the Giambi's, or whoever else's actions.

 

Steroids didn't make Bonds able to make contact with any pitch that comes across the plate. Steroids usually contribute to injury. Steroids haven't enhanced Bonds batting average.

 

Bonds already had the ability to make contact with most pitches, now he has the ability to hit those pitches out of the ballpark. Steroids provide strengh and speed. Strengh and bat speed are what cause balls to travel farther. The argument that steroids don't help make contact is false because it would increase bat speed and as such make it easier to catch up to a fastball or wait longer on a breaking ball. The aruement that steroids don't help with hand-eye coordination is true but inconsequential to the debate at hand. No one argued that Bonds couldn't make contact before he took steriods, what is being argued is that he could not hit 73 HRs before he took them.

 

Coming up with excuses, that are unrelated to the debate is pretty foolish. You seem to be grasping at straws to defend someone who cheated. That I cannot understand.

[therealworldschampion 0]

kkk will love this....

 

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in...Drugs_in_Sports

 

ANAHEIM, Calif. - Dusty Baker believes Barry Bonds didn't know the substances provided by his trainer were steroids.

 

"If he said that to a grand jury, those are words you go by," Bonds' former manager said Saturday at baseball's winter meetings. Baker said he felt for Bonds, who according to a report in the San Francisco Chronicle told a grand jury last December that he used substances that prosecutors have identified as steroids — but did not know they were steroids.

 

 

"I've never seen a guy who works harder than Barry," said Baker, manager of the Chicago Cubs (news) for the past two years after 10 seasons in San Francisco.

 

 

The 40-year-old Bonds has 703 homers, including 42 last season, trailing only Babe Ruth (714) and Hank Aaron (755).

 

 

"He's still the king," Baker said of Aaron, a former teammate on the Atlanta Braves (news). "Barry's on his trail. Barry's better at this age, Hank was better at a younger age."

 

 

Baker said he felt for Aaron, too, since he's been the unwanted center of attention recently.

 

 

"Hank's not in this, other than his record," Baker said. "Hank's a private dude. This has kind of made him less private."

 

 

Baker thinks his sport has been damaged by the steroid issue.

 

 

"It's not the first time baseball's been hurt by something," he said. "They're in the process of cleaning things up. This is a long ways from being over."

 

 

Meanwhile, Baker has his own problems with the Cubs, who didn't make the playoffs last season due to a late-season slump.

 

 

"That's probably the toughest ending I've had since '93, my first year of managing when we finished one game behind the Braves," Baker said. "At the end of the year, I was beat up pretty good. That's the first year I haven't been to the playoffs in a long time."

 

 

Baker hasn't spoken with Sammy Sosa since the end of the season. Sosa said in October he had been humiliated by being dropped to sixth in the lineup and claimed he was mistreated by the team.

 

 

The Cubs have talked about trading Sosa, who has 574 career homers. He has one year left on his contract that will pay him $17 million, and the deal contains an $18 million club option for 2006 with a $4.5 million buyout. If Sosa is traded, his 2006 salary becomes guaranteed and a 2007 club option is added at $19 million with a $4.5 million buyout.

 

 

"Everybody's going to leave at some time," Baker said. "I didn't know anything was wrong until I read about it. I'll talk to him when I see him. I didn't have a problem at all. The problem came from the other side."

 

 

Sosa hit .253 last season — his lowest average since 1997. He had 35 homers and 80 RBIs, ending his run of nine straight 100-RBI seasons.

 

 

"The last couple of years, he's been hurt," Baker said. "You look at (Mark) McGwire, one year he hit .200. There's a lot of guys I've seen repair their careers."

 

 

The season ended on a sour note for Sosa and the Cubs, who were eliminated from wild-card contention on the second-to-last day. Sosa arrived late to the finale at Wrigley Field and then left the game early without playing. He was fined $87,500 — one day's salary.