pochorenella 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2004 Best: The Death of Superman, Maximum Carnage Worst: when they turned Superman into the shitty Super Electric Man As a kid I loved me some Death of Superman and Return of Superman. Those got me through tons of car rides as a youngun... espically the HUGE Return of Superman. I still like Death--I love the "JLA throws all their energy right at Doomsday and he just laughs it off" scene, and lots of other stuff... but the few problems I have are common ones. 1) The gas station explosion. I can see this hurting Superman because of Doomsday already hurting him... but come on. It did WAY too much damage to Superman and Maxima it seems. Still a somewhat cool visual with Superman and Maxima totalled and Doomsday still in it. 2) Ice not dying. I know. I know. It's comics. Hulk's swatted Black Panther before, Shaggy Man punched Batman, Green Arrow was thrown through a brick chimney, and Wolverine can survive shots from Class 100 folks. But... no one of these were people who put down SUPERMAN. He punched her straight in the ribs. Unless he likes just playing with heroes and hurting them (my rationalization of it even since then) this should have killed her. 3) Worse than Ice not dying: Booster Gold not dying. The guy got a car door slammed on his neck by a guy who juggles skyscrapers. 4) Worse than both of these times 1000. Blue Beetle living. I love the guy. Beetle is one of the best cheeseball heroes ever. Besides, if it wasn't for him we wouldn't have NITE OWL in Watchmen--the hero of all pudgy Jewish bankers. Even in comic book land, getting your FACE slammed through steel pipes and into cement should decapitate you. Espically when your a normal human getting slugged by a guy who swats away Darkseid. Also Ice... it's good you want to save Beetle, but why not let the strongest standing leauge member fight Doomsday... the one who can provide a decent fight aganist Superman level foes? 5) Superman's strategy. It was an epic fight. However, why oh why didn't Superman just chuck him into orbit. He knew Doomsday didn't fly. Just leave him floating in space until you get better or get better help than a bunch of jobbers. Once again I love Beetle and Booster Gold and those guys, but for back up it would be the Marvel equivalent of Ultron and Loki coming to your city to cause havoc and the only heroes showing up be the Great Lake Avengers or The Power Pack coming to save the day when you expected Thor. Just plant Doomsday in space for a while, wait till someone like Captain Marvel, a better Green Lantern than Guy (Hal or Alan), Wonder Woman, Dr. Fate, Orion, etc. etc. can help you. I still like the book though. As a kid I would always read it and wonder what kind of destruction Doomsday would cause in the Marvel world? Figured most of the Avengers, X-folk, and Fantastic Four would be dead before Surfer, Thor, Hulk, or Warlock or someone figured out a way to stop Doomsday. Platinum, those are exactly the same problems I have with that story. By far the most troublesome to me is the fact that Supes fought so unintelligently that it's really sad. I never liked him much anyways, but reading that story just reinforced my distaste. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pochorenella 0 Report post Posted December 21, 2004 My God, how could I forget "The Crossing?" Insanely bad story that totally fucked up my favorite comic-book character (Iron Man) and left the Avengers a complete mess. But unlike other people, I truly believe the Avengers and Iron Man were salvaged with their respective relaunches (specially the awesome Busiek-Perez run), even though to this day I believe nobody has fully explained the return of grown-up Tony. In one of the Busiek/Perez annuals (I believe it was 2000, with the Triune/Pym stuff), there was a mini-story where Duane the Liason was e-mailing Jarvis these questions, along with the formation of Cap's shield and the rebirth of the Wasp. The official answer was that when Franklin Richards recreated the heroes, he created them as he knew them. There was a cutscene of Stark saying "My God, the memories of three people are in my head." They tried to dig up the original Tony's corpse, and found nothing, so Iron Man is multiple Tony's in one head. Also, Hawkeye doesn't need a hearing aid anymore. Thanks for the tip, Kitson. Feel like tracking down that Annual just to read that info. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted December 23, 2004 I always preferred "Knightfall" to "The Death of Superman." Bane was just a MUCH better villain than Doomsday (the typical "unstoppible monster"), as was the story. I liked the way the Justice Lords' Superman took care of Doomsday on JL: TAS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sass 0 Report post Posted December 24, 2004 Doomsday should have got to kill everyone except Booster Gold, Blue Beetle and Guy Gardner. Oh yeah, Superman included. DC ruined the "death" scene in a big way when they brought back Supes. Comics just can't kill off major characters. If they do, then at some point they will be required to bring them back. Jean Grey is perhaps one of the most notable examples here. Her return in 1986 spit on the death scene in comics but Superman's return took a steamming piss on it. Batman coming back from paralysis was okay though. Death on the otherhand should not be mucked around with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JasonX 0 Report post Posted December 24, 2004 Doomsday should have got to kill everyone except Booster Gold, Blue Beetle and Guy Gardner. Oh yeah, Superman included. DC ruined the "death" scene in a big way when they brought back Supes. Comics just can't kill off major characters. If they do, then at some point they will be required to bring them back. Jean Grey is perhaps one of the most notable examples here. Her return in 1986 spit on the death scene in comics but Superman's return took a steamming piss on it. Batman coming back from paralysis was okay though. Death on the otherhand should not be mucked around with. Killing the Giffen JLA was impossible do to the fact that they were still popular at the time and the Big Guns were still all tied up and unaccessible do to editorial problems at the time. If anything, having Doomsday hospitalize the Giffen JLA was a godsend since it kept Jurgens (who work on JLA in the early 90s can be compared to any team book Chuck Austen has written in the last couple of years) from further devaluing the Giffen JLA in the same way Austen FUBARed the Avengers and the X-Men for the remainder of his run.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest netslob Report post Posted December 25, 2004 for my money, Grant Morrison's run on the Doom Patrol (vol. 2 #'s 19-63) is one of the best overall stories i've EVER read in any medium. i've re-read it numerous times and still find new things i missed the previous times. it's that good. DC is even putting it out in TPB form over the next year or so. if your into weird shit and multi-layered stories, go out and get this run NOW! you'll thank me later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sass 0 Report post Posted December 28, 2004 At the time, Thunderbolts revealing themselves to be the Masters of Evil in disguise was a great twist. Issues #1 to #13 were good stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steviekick 0 Report post Posted January 1, 2005 At the time, Thunderbolts revealing themselves to be the Masters of Evil in disguise was a great twist. Issues #1 to #13 were good stuff. Early TBolts stuff is always overlooked. It's a great read. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
