Sell me on... Hating JBL

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

The sad part is many of you are probably only praising Bradshaw now just because he's been champ for so long and have been brainwashed by WWE into liking him since he's been getting so much focus.  But then again, many of us despise HHH so its a case of pick your poison.  Go for HHH because he's obviously the better man or go for JBL because he's something new, a breath of fresh air so to speak.

Maybe we're just not all lemmings who like whoever the "workrate" guys tell us to like.

Oh your just so COOL for daring to be different.

 

As far as the whole JBL thing. It's just been an abortion of a push from the start. I don't like them but would it kill them to give the guy even a small shred of credibility if he's going to have such a long term run. They should just give the Undertaker the belt so at least when he destroys the credibility of everyone else on the roster at least it's the champion doing it.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

The sad part is many of you are probably only praising Bradshaw now just because he's been champ for so long and have been brainwashed by WWE into liking him since he's been getting so much focus.  But then again, many of us despise HHH so its a case of pick your poison.  Go for HHH because he's obviously the better man or go for JBL because he's something new, a breath of fresh air so to speak.

Maybe we're just not all lemmings who like whoever the "workrate" guys tell us to like.

Oh your just so COOL for daring to be different.

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY!

 

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH!

 

NO OPINION BUT THE *ONE* OPINION.

 

ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS JUST TRYING TO BE DIFFERENT!

[Exslade ZX 0]

But how do you know he's not getting X-Pac heat? HOW DO YOU KNOW?!?

 

Hurry up and reply, I can't wait for it.

When JBL comes to the ring, you don't see/hear the crowd going 'GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE' pretty much. You can tell when the crowd is genuinely booing someone...as they want them to get the hell off of their television screen, and when the crowd is booing...well because that person is a heel. During a JBL promo, if everyone hated him so, the crowd would pretty much be chewing him out the whole time...but they don't. They usually start to boo or whatever, when, what you can tell is when they're supposed to. He gets the hugest heat when he starts his 'JBL chant'. He gets the crowd to boo, when he uses his 'cheap shots' (which I know some seemingly hate...but, isn't that what a heel should do?) For his promos on SD, you can tell that a better part of the crowd is..well...listening, and they boo when they hear what they don't like, instead of just booing him, and I'm sure that it's not just canned heat, or lowered boos.

 

And nobody 'picks and chooses' the facts when making a credible and valid argument. It doesn't make you look real good when such an argument is made, and you still try and make it like it's picking and choosing when it isn't.

But it is. At least seemingly. Hate to partake in the 'anti-smark' role that's seemingly going on, but when the arguement is for an IWC favorite (See, Benoit/Eddie) only the good things are picked out...and when it's someone the IWC hates (See JBL/Orton/anyone over 6'3) only the negatives are pointed out...even when the opposing arguement..points out positives. If Eddie were to win the title on SD...and for the next month or two, the buyrates and ratings were bad...and for the sake of arguement...let's say they were worse, so WWE put the title on someone else again. The arguement of most would be that JBL absolutely killed the credibility of the title, or that he turned so many people away from SD. Or, like some have said, that Eddie wasn't booked right. No one would mention anything about it being Eddie's fault. About how some possibly see his gimmick as stale, or that maybe some got tired of his Spanglish promos. (Once again, this is for the sake of arguement as I know it probaly wouldn't be the case..) And that some just...didn't like Eddie and decided not to watch. But no, it would be because JBL killed SD, or because Creative team sucks. You may not 'pick and choose' personally, but for many, that seems to be the case. But hey, I can't 'accuse' anyone of anything because that may not be their purpose, which is why I say 'seemingly'.

[RedJed 0]

But how do you know he's not getting X-Pac heat? HOW DO YOU KNOW?!?

 

Hurry up and reply, I can't wait for it.

When JBL comes to the ring, you don't see/hear the crowd going 'GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE' pretty much. You can tell when the crowd is genuinely booing someone...as they want them to get the hell off of their television screen, and when the crowd is booing...well because that person is a heel. During a JBL promo, if everyone hated him so, the crowd would pretty much be chewing him out the whole time...but they don't. They usually start to boo or whatever, when, what you can tell is when they're supposed to. He gets the hugest heat when he starts his 'JBL chant'. He gets the crowd to boo, when he uses his 'cheap shots' (which I know some seemingly hate...but, isn't that what a heel should do?) For his promos on SD, you can tell that a better part of the crowd is..well...listening, and they boo when they hear what they don't like, instead of just booing him, and I'm sure that it's not just canned heat, or lowered boos.

What shows are you watching? When JBL comes out, there is almost NO HEAT, nobody really makes a sound when he comes out to the ring for the most part. If a crowd really hates a guy, you dont either here hardly any response from them, not "them chewing the guy out." Either that or the fans do the wave or outright leave the arena to grab another beer or to take a leak. Again I bring up Armageddon, the feeling I got from the crowd was that when JBL won, it was a depressed response, which was, more than anything, not a response at all. Kind of a groaned response when he won followed by zero heat. What a horrible way to end a ppv was all I kept thinking.

 

When you claim fans are "listening" during a JBL promo, maybe try and think that maybe that silence isnt as much listening as it is an apathetic towards the individual - IE X-pac heat!

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Maybe we're just not all lemmings who like whoever the "workrate" guys tell us to like.

 

Hence why I said many and not all.

[The Niggardly King 0]

It would be easier to accept the guy if he had a decent push in the midcard, and slowly making his way to the top. He went from one week jobbing to Rikishi on Velocity to a Main Event feud with Guerrero. That doesn't make any sense.

[Downhome 0]

In response to Downhome:

 

I can see your reasons, but honestly they could have done the same exact thing with Billy Gunn, and you probably still would have liked it. 

I've never liked Billy Gunn except for when he was a part of The Smoking Gunns and the New Age Outlaws, and then when he was with Chuck. Aside from that, I've hated him as much as the next guy. He just isn't cut out to be a singles wrestler, he can't do it all on his own. I've liked Bradshaw since day one however. Back when I first saw him debut, I said right then and there that he would one day be a long term world champion. As the years went by, throughout APA and the such, my feeling got stronger and stronger until BAM, they actually did it.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

I thought from the beginning that JBL would make a decent WWE Champion for a month, only to drop back to Eddie, and then Eddie could carry on as champ.

 

As time has gone on, I think JBL is the only guy for the job that is currently on SD. They've spent so much time establishing him, that it would be stupid to put the title on any other heel.

 

And really what are their options? Angle? He's hurt, cant really be expected to carry the brand. Who are the other top level heels? Heidenreich?

 

I do think they should realy consider getting the title on a face, whether that be Cena or Eddie it doesn't really matter much to me. I just think this whole heel World Champion is played out.

 

I agree that JBL as a character has been entertaining, and I think he gets too much criticism for business being down. Someone was trying to compare Benoit to JBL, and I agree I dont think thats fair. But what is fair is to compare him to HHH.

 

In terms of TV ratings, RAW and SD are very close, and many times, at least lately, SD is ahead. RAW PPVs do slightly better (although No Mercy did top Taboo Tuesday), but I think thats because RAW gets all the help.

 

In April RAW had Mick Foley frist one on one match in over 4 years and the Mania rematch vs SD's May show with Eddie vs JBL (main eventing out of nowhere) and Taker vs BT (playing the role of Papa Shango 2004).

 

In June RAW had the HIAC gimmick (WWE's top gimmick match) vs SD's Texas Bullrope Match!!! oh yeah and the Concrete Crypt....

 

And then in October RAW had the revolutionary Taboo Tuesday concept and SD had.....The Last Ride Match!!!!

 

Even this month SD gets a Fatal 4 Way with no stips and RAW gets the Elimination Chamber. So obviosuly there is favourtism towards RAW, and yet they only slightly outdraw SD on PPV.

 

Finally there is attendance, and really thats a pick em. SD has the only PPV sell out for a brand exclusive show (Judgement Day) and SD did much better attendance for NM in Jersey than RAW did for TT in Milwaukee. And I would guess Armageddon also outdrew TT as well. Unforgiven, which was done in a town that hasn't ever had a WWE couldn't do a good number and even in Hartford (for Bad Blood) the RAW brand couldn't sell out. Hell they didn't even sell out for Benoit coming back to Edmonton as champion.

 

The point of all this is that HHH does just as bad in terms of drawing money as JBL has done. So if you are going to say JBL is undeserving or is a failure as champion, then you have to say the same about HHH.

[SuperJerk 0]

So if you are going to say JBL is undeserving or is a failure as champion, then you have to say the same about HHH.

Triple H is undeserving and a failure as champion. Duh.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I liked Financial Analyst Bradshaw until they gave him a serious political bent. I have a problem with political angles (even this one, which plays to my moderate liberal politics) because not very creative, likely to offend sensitive people, and too likely to inoffend others. What I mean by that last part is that no matter how culturally extreme you make a character, for example racism, there's always some guy out in the trailer park who thinks the guy on TV saying that black people should be considered criminals is right on.

 

However, I've thought that Bradshaw has managed to do well under the weight of a political gimmick and, indeed, made it entertaining despite it's drawbacks.

 

The reason for hating Bradshaw, at least the concensus I've seen, is that he has always been automatically the guy who needs to be carried in a match, and that's something that fans of the actual wrestling don't like to see. They didn't like it when Brock Lesnar was in the same phase, but Lesnar got beyond that point and indeed had matches where he was doing the carrying. Bradshaw's career has been so long that he probably isn't going to get any better in-ring than he already is.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Somewhat off topic...

 

But is it wrong for me to want to see a Hulk Hogan/JBL match?

[Jobber of the Week 0]

As long as it's not the main event, no.

 

Heck, I'd be more curious who everyone decides the better worker is. However, the finish is probably rather lame if Hogan jobs clean, since the big clothesline is nowhere near the whole Hulk Up/Legdrop routine in terms of pops and a sense of finality.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

As long as it's not the main event, no.

 

Heck, I'd be more curious who everyone decides the better worker is. However, the finish is probably rather lame if Hogan jobs clean, since the big clothesline is nowhere near the whole Hulk Up/Legdrop routine in terms of pops and a sense of finality.

True on that last part.

 

I'd love for JBL to hit the Clothesline from Hell, then Hogan does his Hulk Up routine on him.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Except then you have an old fart no-selling a finisher, although I guess it'll be excused for the guys involved.

 

That's my own problem with Bradshaw. The clothesline is such a heavily-used move that there's very little to distinguish a clothesline and THE clothesline. The legdrop was just a friggin' legdrop, but it had such a show that it left people saying "Ooh, he's not getting up from that one!"

 

I only saw two Bradshaw matches live, one hardcore that I think ended with a chairshot and one during the APA reunion when they jobbed, so I've never been able to tell myself, but I can't imagine that without an announcer shouting about the Clothesline From Hell whether I'd be able to actually say "That's the big move." The clothesline finish seems like it could just as easily look like a botched finish to a live crowd ("I think he was supposed to kick out of it, it was just a clothesline.) as it could be seen as intentional.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

I saw the Royal Rumble live this past year, and you could tell the Clothesline From Hell because of the extra force he would put into it compared to just a normal clothesline.

 

Plus, there's always the classic "Opponent slams into turnbuckle face first" set up for the move.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

Somewhat off topic...

 

But is it wrong for me to want to see a Hulk Hogan/JBL match?

Actually, if they plan on having JBL retain at Mania, I think thats the best match for him. Assuming of course Hogan would be willing to JOB.

[Guest The Shadow Behind You]

Finally there is attendance, and really thats a pick em. SD has the only PPV sell out for a brand exclusive show (Judgement Day) and SD did much better attendance for NM in Jersey than RAW did for TT in Milwaukee. And I would guess Armageddon also outdrew TT as well. Unforgiven, which was done in a town that hasn't ever had a WWE couldn't do a good number and even in Hartford (for Bad Blood) the RAW brand couldn't sell out. Hell they didn't even sell out for Benoit coming back to Edmonton as champion.

 

The point of all this is that HHH does just as bad in terms of drawing money as JBL has done. So if you are going to say JBL is undeserving or is a failure as champion, then you have to say the same about HHH.

Bad Blood was in Columbus this year.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Yeah Hartford had Vengenace.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Somewhat off topic...

 

But is it wrong for me to want to see a Hulk Hogan/JBL match?

Actually, if they plan on having JBL retain at Mania, I think thats the best match for him.

Believe it not, one idea expected to be pitched to The Rock for WM XXI is for him to put over JBL.

[Promoter 0]

People are defending Bradshaw now? I like the guy's character, but marketing is obviously working. This thread comes up now after Bradshaw has basically gone over all the important faces on smackdown besides Cena and Big Show. Obviously it makes no sense now to take the title off him. However, when we get Bradshaw holding the strap until summerslam next year and making people vomit in disgust blame the JBL apologists. Personally, I would not mind if Bradshaw held the US title and I think the only damn reason this guy is getting this uber push is that it belonged to Lesnar. The greatest champion schtick was done by Lesnar this time last year and it could be an opening for Lesnar to pop back in and take his title. We'll see as I think putting the title on Cena will kill him like it did Orton. It's too soon.

 

Oh yeah, if JBL is actually that much over I ask how well would he fare if he was put on raw. Evolution would swallow him for heel heat. Actually, they would turn faces due to them being more entertaining.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

 

Finally there is attendance, and really thats a pick em.  SD has the only PPV sell out for a brand exclusive show (Judgement Day) and SD did much better attendance for NM in Jersey than RAW did for TT in Milwaukee.  And I would guess Armageddon also outdrew TT as well.  Unforgiven, which was done in a town that hasn't ever had a WWE couldn't do a good number and even in Hartford (for Bad Blood) the RAW brand couldn't sell out.  Hell they didn't even sell out for Benoit coming back to Edmonton as champion.   

 

The point of all this is that HHH does just as bad in terms of drawing money as JBL has done.  So if you are going to say JBL is undeserving or is a failure as champion, then you have to say the same about HHH.

Bad Blood was in Columbus this year.

my bad, but neither show did well.

[Guest Tjhe CyNick]

Somewhat off topic...

 

But is it wrong for me to want to see a Hulk Hogan/JBL match?

Actually, if they plan on having JBL retain at Mania, I think thats the best match for him.

Believe it not, one idea expected to be pitched to The Rock for WM XXI is for him to put over JBL.

Well that would make sense.

 

I would rather see Rock-Orton, but you figure Rock should put over someone, might as well be JBL.

[Taker666 0]

One of the things I love about JBL, Is no matter what else hes wearing, he always has to wear that cowboy hat. rather hes wearing a giant neckbrace, or a Biohazard suit. the cowboy hat is still there LOL!!

 

same thing with any vehicle he drives to the ring. has to have the bullhorns on there.

 

How can you not love this guy!!!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Jeez Downhome, you've said some silly things but...

 

I've never liked Billy Gunn except for when he was a part of The Smoking Gunns and the New Age Outlaws, and then when he was with Chuck.

 

You know that's, like, more than half his WWE career, right?

 

I've liked Bradshaw since day one however. Back when I first saw him debut, I said right then and there that he would one day be a long term world champion. As the years went by, throughout APA and the such, my feeling got stronger and stronger until BAM, they actually did it.

 

Please tell me you did not see Justin Hawk Bradshaw and say this. Or Blackjack Bradshaw. Cause that's not really something to be proud of, what with you having to be retarded to see these things in either of those incarnations and all .

 

I've considered Bradshaw main event potential for about 3 or 4 years. His APA promos, when he addressed the crowd (particularly when up against Edge and Christian), were main event calibre and are probably what sold me on him. His wrestling style was also complacent with the WWE style, but also had distinctive elements to it (stiffness in particular) that made it his own and could match up well against other wrestlers. I love the CLFH finisher and he needs to use his powerbomb more often. I would love to see him bust out a piledriver from time-to-time to finish matches, cause I think it would be a nice addition to his 80ish moveset. I mean really, his whole cabinet should be all 80'sfied. The Bashams should start doing Demolitions finisher. Orlando is good with the powerslam. I mentioned in another thread, or this thread, who fucking cares which thread, that they need to expand his cabinet ridiculously. I'd like to see a Spiked Piledriver occasionally with Orlando and JBL. Shit, I'd sign Stan Hansen just befuckingcause, or at the very least, have JBL be more surly when wrestling. I think JBL has a lot of potential that they're missing the boat on in favour of making him a generic heel. He needs his own personal announcer too. Someone to recite all the people he has beaten while introducing him, and perhaps all the stocks in JBL's portfolio and how they are doing in the market.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And for his wrestling matches, he needs to have THE LONG WALK to the ring. Start from his locker room, and his entourage at his side either pumping him up or dead silent, all the way to the ring. This will also allow for the aforementioned lengthy introduction.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And I also think, at one point, Bradshaw needs to grow a beard and wear a cardigan with his initials either on the back (euck) or lapel. It will be when he hits a crossroads and sees that there is no one left to beat on Smackdown. He should disappear for a few weeks, maybe a month, while Orlando Jordan has to deal with business and has no idea where JBL is. Then we can get some live feeds from JBLs log cabin, his Camp David. JBL questions himself now, ironically, because his quest to be the best has left him empty, and he needs to have goals in life. He could marry a Mexican and adopt several children, to try and fill that void. Orlando can then try to track down JBL to get him to come back, because the cabinet needs him. They can show OJ backpacking through the wilderness, fighting off bears and owls and stuff, eventually reaching JBLs cabin, telling the champ that there is a new challenger who wants the title, and Bradshaws eyes widen as he has found his purpose again. He dumps the wife and kids immediately (he keeps one, John Jr.), loses the beard, but keeps the cardigan and returns triumphantly to smackdown. Hells yeah.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And the Bashams need to adopt, AT LEAST, 2 of the stylish features below (one must be the 'staches). And JBL has to be increasingly anal about their appearances ("What did I tell you two? Huh? What? I said tie some goddamn rope around your waist and trim those goddamn shirts! What am I payin yall for if ya don't listen!?").

 

[Guest Nater]

Besides Eddie and Kurt, who has he had a good match with?

 

Let me remind you, Eddie and Kurt could dance with a broom from 20 minutes and make for some quality PPV.

 

Credible big guy? Dont make me laugh... BIG SHOW is credible.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

He had a good match with Albert on Velocity before his JBL push began.

 

Big Show being credible is hilarious. They have him squash the entire roster and you know what? I still don't see him as a killer.

[Exslade ZX 0]

He had a good match with Albert on Velocity before his JBL push began.

 

Big Show being credible is hilarious. They have him squash the entire roster and you know what? I still don't see him as a killer.

Well that's because the next day they have him laughing, licking the pie off his face that some chick just threw at him..