Sell me on... Hating JBL

[SuperJerk 0]

I still say JBL's gimmick would've been better suited for the US Championship.

 

Its a great gimmick, but only by midcard comedy standards.

[Guest JMA]

I still say JBL's gimmick would've been better suited for the US Championship.

 

Its a great gimmick, but only by midcard comedy standards.

I agree that this gimmick would've been perfect for a US Championship contender.

 

The truth is that I LIKE JBL's gimmick. The rich, ultra-conservative Texan is an easy person to hate, and Bradshaw plays the role perfectly. I just don't like him being WWE Champion. He's been pushed far too fast without ever being built up as any kind of threat. Because of this, the fans don't take him seriously. They see him as a joke champion of a joke brand.

 

What should've happened is this: JBL loses at Judgment Day to Eddie in a hard-fought, bloody match. Although JBL would be beaten cleanly, he would also push Eddie to the limit. After the PPV, he starts a feud with John Cena for the US title. He would thus be seen as a legitimate threat and could have a nice run with the US Championship.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

And about the whole argument of "Being pushed to fast", "he came out of a jobber tag team just months ago" and "there are more deserving Champions", I don't give a shit, it happened and the end results has been great.

 

Right because its perfectly okay when the same thing happens for the next veteran joker.

[Placebo Effect 0]

He'll be best remember for being a tag team jobber who was pushed faster to getting the title than Brock Lesnar. And this is a guy who had several horrible gimmicks and had been pushed before as a singles guy that failed miserably.

 

I can see why some of you may like his gimmick, but it takes more than image and mic skills to be a great champion.

He'll be remembered for that by US, the Internet fans. The fans actually buy him as a champion, and have been doing so for several months.

 

Despite not watching Smackdown all that often, I've enjoyed Bradshaw quite a bit since the feud with Guerrero ended.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Well, they don't really have a choice.

[Guest uyaljg]

His character has been great, because he is the TOP champion, not some midcard champion, with the U.S. title.

[Use Your Illusion 0]

 

Farooq, Haas and Christian Neidharted/Jannettyed their careers.

That's an incredibly asinine thing to say. Faarooq retired, and then JBL moved up the card. Christian and Haas are still on the shows, with Christian in the upper midcard and Haas being in one of the bigger angles on Smackdown.

By my recollection, Christian has had ONE singles victory since returning, and that was against the Hurricane.

 

All over victories (and you can count them on one hand) have been in tag matches, where only in the rarest cases was he the individual who scored the pinfall (Shawn Michaels comes to mind).

 

UYI

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

And about the whole argument of "Being pushed to fast", "he came out of a jobber tag team just months ago" and "there are more deserving Champions", I don't give a shit, it happened and the end results has been great.

Yes, because it's perfectly fine to put the World title on a guy the fans don't buy in that position.

 

And the end result as been a World title that the fans don't care about much, if at all. Go back to the reactions in WWE Title matches this year with Eddie or Brock as champion, and then see the matches with JBL as champion. The heat and noise from the crowds isn't there anymore. At Armageddon, nobody gave a shit about the match until Eddie brought a ladder out, and that was 5 months into his reign. The heat for WWE Title matches has gotten progressively worse as JBL's reign has gone on. Not to mention that PPV attendance and buy rates are sinking like stones. You can try and blame it all on the SD product as a whole being bad all you wan't, but the fact is that with JBL getting the big push, the revenue stream that really matters, PPV, is down, and if that doesn't convince you that JBL needs to be replaced, if nothing else but to stop the slide, then you're a hopeless case.

[humongous2002 0]

2 words:

The Wave.

That's how much the fans care about Crapshaw.

[Placebo Effect 0]

2 words:

The Wave.

That's how much the fans care about Crapshaw.

Your puns are absolutely hilarious.

[tbondrage99 0]

JBL had a great singles run before, as European champion

 

which lasted 8 days.

And didnt he also lose the title to Christian on Smackdown on a match that they never showed?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

JBL had a great singles run before, as European champion

 

which lasted 8 days.

And didnt he also lose the title to Christian on Smackdown on a match that they never showed?

All that was shown was a clip of Christian leaving the ring holding the European belt, and that was on one of the weekend shows that almost nobody watched.

 

Yes, that'll make a title seem important, when they, not only cut the match out of the national broadcast it was taped for. but don't even show the match at all; not even clips.

[King Cucaracha 0]

2 words:

The Wave.

 

The crowd went there with the sole intention of putting themselves over. If we're judging the WWE by that crowd then god help us all. Let's not forget the cheers Tripper got, or the fact the crowd sat on their hands for most of EDDIE~ vs. Angle and the opening six-man involving LONDON~.

 

I still don't get the arguement that one person makes the WWE a draw anymore. Until there's another Rock or Austin coming along, the WWE name is what draws, not 'Crapshaw' (very original btw) or Orton, or Benoit or Trips.

 

In fact, I hate the whole 'he's a draw, he's not' arguement itself...not because it's neccessarily wrong, but because there's so many factors you can ignore when you want to turn it against someone like Diesel, or so many you can suddenly remember when you want to make an IWC favourite look good.

 

JBL entertains me. That's all that matters to me. I'm not worried about what PPV buyrate the WWE gets while I'm watching a show. Sure, there's better wrestlers and better people to hold the title. But JBL's not doing a BAD job as champ.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

2 words:

The Wave.

 

The crowd went there with the sole intention of putting themselves over. If we're judging the WWE by that crowd then god help us all. Let's not forget the cheers Tripper got, or the fact the crowd sat on their hands for most of EDDIE~ vs. Angle and the opening six-man involving LONDON~.

 

I still don't get the arguement that one person makes the WWE a draw anymore. Until there's another Rock or Austin coming along, the WWE name is what draws, not 'Crapshaw' (very original btw) or Orton, or Benoit or Trips.

 

In fact, I hate the whole 'he's a draw, he's not' arguement itself...not because it's neccessarily wrong, but because there's so many factors you can ignore when you want to turn it against someone like Diesel, or so many you can suddenly remember when you want to make an IWC favourite look good.

 

JBL entertains me. That's all that matters to me. I'm not worried about what PPV buyrate the WWE gets while I'm watching a show. Sure, there's better wrestlers and better people to hold the title. But JBL's not doing a BAD job as champ.

The crowd went there with the sole intention of putting themselves over.

 

No, they went there to be entertained, and when they weren’t being entertained with what was going on in the ring, they made their own entertainment. I love how people use this excuse as to why the fans at SummerSlam weren’t into the matches, because, of course, it couldn’t possibly be because they just weren’t entertained by what was going on in the ring.

 

I still don't get the arguement that one person makes the WWE a draw anymore. Until there's another Rock or Austin coming along, the WWE name is what draws, not 'Crapshaw' (very original btw) or Orton, or Benoit or Trips. 

 

One person doesn’t necessarily make WWE a draw, but they can be a negative draw, if they’re getting a strong push and PPV attendance and buy rates sink, with no signs of turning around.

 

In fact, I hate the whole 'he's a draw, he's not' arguement itself...not because it's neccessarily wrong, but because there's so many factors you can ignore when you want to turn it against someone like Diesel, or so many you can suddenly remember when you want to make an IWC favourite look good. 

 

So in other words, it’s a great argument, but only if it makes a point you agree with ?

 

I'm not worried about what PPV buyrate the WWE gets while I'm watching a show. 

 

Shows how much you really care then, doesn’t it. If a promotion I like is doing steadily worse business with a certain champion on top, I’d be worried.

 

But JBL's not doing a BAD job as champ. 

 

Then I guess you’ve missed, or most likely ignored, the fact that with him as WWE Champion, buy rates and attendance for SD shows is sinking like a stone.

[Exslade ZX 0]

One person doesn’t necessarily make WWE a draw, but they can be a negative draw, if they’re getting a strong push and PPV attendance and buy rates sink, with no signs of turning around.

But like he said pretty much, fact is, how do you know? How do you know attendance is low, and buyrates are sinking because of JBL? I mean...you can guess that's probaly the reason, but then again, maybe people are tired of the Undertaker. Maybe people are turned away from SD because of Heidenreich. maybe people just aren't able to watch SD, so why should they buy the SD PPV? Not saying that JBL isn't a negative draw, because hey, I know there are some people out there who hate him..and won't order a PPV if he's main eventing. But..to put it all on him, just because he is the champ, just isnt' right. When Benoit, who's supposedly so great, was champion, RAW's rating, and PPV buyrate defintely, still weren't at their best. Even if he wasn't pushed as the greatest...he was champion, so the buyrate/rating all depends on him right? So 'his greatness' alone should have made the buyrates raise like a mother...even if, like Bad Blood, he wasn't pushed as the main event.

 

Then I guess you’ve missed, or most likely ignored, the fact that with him as WWE Champion, buy rates and attendance for SD shows is sinking like a stone.

And this just goes with the above. Maybe some don't like Tough Enough?> (even though it was usally one the higher segments) Maybe people hate the commentary..etc, it can be a number of things, so I don't think saying it's all JBL is justifyable, because it's clear he's doing a good job...even if he is 'Crapshaw'. Who I'm not/wasn't a fan of, but I've liked him in this particular role. And he gets heat from the fans...and not that X-pac heat, so he must be doing something right.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

When someone is getting the kind of push that Bradshaw is, with the lengthy title reign, lots of mic time, an entourage, etc, it’s a fair bet that Vince and co are putting the brand on his shoulders, and letting him carry things. They are building SD around Bradshaw. Therefore, it’s a valid argument the majority of the blame for SD business tanking belongs to Bradshaw’s push. He’s the one the SD brand is being built around when the SD buy rates and PPV attendance is falling, so who should we blame if not him ? There might be other factors involved, but they are minor at best.

 

And trying to compare this with Benoit’s reign is silly, because they didn’t build Raw around Benoit when he was champion. They continued to build around Hunter, and, not coincidentally, things still didn’t turn around for them. If they had built Raw around Benoit, and business fell or tanked, then it would be a valid comparison to make, but they didn’t, so the argument isn’t valid.

 

As for the heat Bradshaw is getting, go back to Armageddon and listen to the crowd. That main event had next to no heat at all until Eddie brought out the ladder. Yeah, that’s some great heat Bradshaw gets(!)

[Downhome 0]

2 words:

The Wave.

That's how much the fans care about Crapshaw.

That happened for one match, on a PPV where the entire crowd was a bunch of shits. How many times has the wave happened since then again?

 

I hope Bradshaw DOES keep the title past the Royal Rumble, past Wrestlemania, and throughout 2004. I've been more interested in his title run more than anyone else's over the past few years. It's to the point that you really have no clue who will beat the guy, and that is a good thing.

 

With HHH and his long run, you pretty much knew exactly who he was always going to beat, and you knew exactly when he would drop the title. With Bradshaw, that's different. Any one of the guys he's faced could have won the title from him. Eddie, Taker, Booker T, Angle...any of em. Bradshaw is the best heel, when you consider the total package, since HHH's run a few years ago.

 

As for people saying this would be a perfect gimmick for a US title guy, get real. The entire point of this Bradshaw character is that he's the best, the greatest, no one can beat him, he's on top of the mountain, he's better than EVERYONE else. Something like that is made specifically for a world title run.

 

Also, hate the guy or not, I don't see how anyone can honestly say he hasn't improved. His matches, talk, overall reactions, and pretty much everything else about the guy has improved. Without a doubt he's the most improved wrestler of 2004. The guy is perfect in his current role, and it would be foolish to put an end to it right now. I know none of you want to hear this, but in my eyes he's only just begun.

[The Mandarin 0]

2 words:

The Wave.

That's how much the fans care about Crapshaw.

That happened for one match, on a PPV where the entire crowd was a bunch of shits.

It happened on a PPV where the entire card was a bunch of shits.

 

I admired the dedication and determination of the guy a few sections to my right who started the wave (he persisted several times until we all gave in) more than the two deadbeats working a routine match in the ring.

[bob_barron 0]

That happened for one match, on a PPV where the entire crowd was a bunch of shits. How many times has the wave happened since then again?

 

How was the entire crowd a bunch of shits? Because they refused to cheer when they weren't being entertained? The people paid good money for those seats and were not entertained by a Taker v. JBL match so they did the wave.

 

That should be a bad sign about JBL right there.

 

And while they didn't do the wave- the crowd during the No Mercy main event was completely dead for JBL v. Taker 2.

 

The crowd also was dead for Booker v. JBL despite all the overbooking.

 

With HHH and his long run, you pretty much knew exactly who he was always going to beat, and you knew exactly when he would drop the title. With Bradshaw, that's different. Any one of the guys he's faced could have won the title from him. Eddie, Taker, Booker T, Angle...any of em. Bradshaw is the best heel, when you consider the total package, since HHH's run a few years ago.

 

With HHH I thought he would lose on several occasions. With JBL I just don't care.

 

When Benoit, who's supposedly so great, was champion, RAW's rating, and PPV buyrate defintely, still weren't at their best. Even if he wasn't pushed as the greatest...he was champion, so the buyrate/rating all depends on him right? So 'his greatness' alone should have made the buyrates raise like a mother...even if, like Bad Blood, he wasn't pushed as the main event.

 

Apples and oranges. JBL's matches have been pushed as the centrepiece of the SD! PPVs. Benoit played second fiddle to HBK v. HHH. JBL is all over Smackdown!, Benoit wasn't.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

You can try and blame it all on the SD product as a whole being bad all you wan't, but the fact is that with JBL getting the big push, the revenue stream that really matters, PPV, is down, and if that doesn't convince you that JBL needs to be replaced, if nothing else but to stop the slide, then you're a hopeless case.

But..to put it all on him, just because he is the champ, just isnt' right. When Benoit, who's supposedly so great, was champion, RAW's rating, and PPV buyrate defintely, still weren't at their best. Even if he wasn't pushed as the greatest...he was champion, so the buyrate/rating all depends on him right? So 'his greatness' alone should have made the buyrates raise like a mother...even if, like Bad Blood, he wasn't pushed as the main event.

 

You have to remember the unwritten rule that the champion has to deal with the responsibility given to him. He gets the praise or the blame depending on the buyrate, attendence, etc. It doesn't matter how he's booked or if he even gets the main focus whatsoever. That's just how it was written, its a shitty rule, but its the rule. At this rate, Bradshaw should have had the title taken away from him a long time, but Vince likes him so God damn much, he wants to continually rub it in our faces.

 

The WWE Championship has a disease called "JBL Syndrome" just waiting to be cured.

 

he's a Republican...what more reason do you need to hate him?  

 

Its Republicans like him that give Republicans in general a bad name thus causing some fellow Republicans to hate him.

 

In response to Downhome:

 

I can see your reasons, but honestly they could have done the same exact thing with Billy Gunn, and you probably still would have liked it.

[Guest netslob]

he's a Republican...what more reason do you need to hate him?

[Dark Age 0]

But like he said pretty much, fact is, how do you know? How do you know attendance is low, and buyrates are sinking because of JBL? I mean...you can guess that's probaly the reason, but then again, maybe people are tired of the Undertaker. Maybe people are turned away from SD because of Heidenreich. maybe people just aren't able to watch SD, so why should they buy the SD PPV? Not saying that JBL isn't a negative draw, because hey, I know there are some people out there who hate him..and won't order a PPV if he's main eventing. But..to put it all on him, just because he is the champ, just isnt' right. When Benoit, who's supposedly so great, was champion, RAW's rating, and PPV buyrate defintely, still weren't at their best. Even if he wasn't pushed as the greatest...he was champion, so the buyrate/rating all depends on him right? So 'his greatness' alone should have made the buyrates raise like a mother...even if, like Bad Blood, he wasn't pushed as the main event.

 

Then I guess you’ve missed, or most likely ignored, the fact that with him as WWE Champion, buy rates and attendance for SD shows is sinking like a stone.

And this just goes with the above. Maybe some don't like Tough Enough?> (even though it was usally one the higher segments) Maybe people hate the commentary..etc, it can be a number of things, so I don't think saying it's all JBL is justifyable, because it's clear he's doing a good job...even if he is 'Crapshaw'. Who I'm not/wasn't a fan of, but I've liked him in this particular role. And he gets heat from the fans...and not that X-pac heat, so he must be doing something right.

But how do you know he's not getting X-Pac heat? HOW DO YOU KNOW?!?

 

Hurry up and reply, I can't wait for it.

[Taker666 0]

And about the whole ratings argument. um, the ratings haven't gotten any higher or lower sence 2001. they've been steady sence than, just wandering around the high/low 3.0 range. last week's SD! got a 3.4 rating. If JBL was truly the rating cancer people claim he is, than SD! would been getting WCW 2.0 ratings every week. and didn't SD! get a 3.6 rating a couple of weeks ago?

[RedJed 0]

JBL IS getting X-pac heat - at the last ppv, when he won the main event, I can clearly recall the crowd deflated at the finish. There was no heat on Bradshaw the entire match really, and even though he is a heel, nothing has been accomplished to give him credibility as champ since he won the damn thing. Armageddom would have been the perfect time to get the title off JBL, since he could lose it, and, well....not lose it himself, so he'd save credibility. Then they could have built him more on the upper card and maybe in due time, to another run. One way or another I can't believe how many of you can't see that the guy clearly isnt over with the crowds, its completely obvious to me.

 

To me, the guy just doesnt come across as any sort of main eventer, much less a champion. If he had a nice run of solid matches, much like Orton had, or even a US title run for a long time, then that would have helped. This would be similar to handing a guy like Christian or Matt Hardy (very solid midcard talent) the world title out of nowhere - it just never made sense in the first place to go from point A to point Z so fast.

[RedJed 0]

And about the whole ratings argument. um, the ratings haven't gotten any higher or lower sence 2001. they've been steady sence than, just wandering around the high/low 3.0 range. last week's SD! got a 3.4 rating. If JBL was truly the rating cancer people claim he is, than SD! would been getting WCW 2.0 ratings every week. and didn't SD! get a 3.6 rating a couple of weeks ago?

I wish I had some way to look them up right now (I'm at work) but Meltzer recently did a ratings segment breakdown wrestler by wrestler to see who is even coming close to drawing right now, and Bradshaw's segments normally dont do large numbers. Guys like Angle, Guererro, and Rey draw a lot more. Like I said I wish I could be more specific, maybe someone can help here?

 

Regarding the ratings for SD, I think whats happening right now is that for awhile now, WWE has reached its bare bones number of viewers for shows - these are diehards like you and me who usually tune in each and every week even if it sucks, just because there isnt anything for competition and we've been through the worst and will stick around no matter what. Not having any competition is a big reason for maintaining 3.xx ratings currently, I believe.

[humongous2002 0]

Vince loves the big hoss that's why he is going to push him all the way to the moon or die trying until he eventually gets over with a small minority of the fans(see Orton). JBL has improved a lot but not enough to be a top guy, his wrestling skills are still non-existent, that's why he always wrestles in tag matches or gimmick matches with more talented people. He is a ratings killer according to Meltzer(Eddie,RVD and Kurt are the ratings winners on SD), buyrates are very low and the majority of the fans think of him as a midcarder lame duck champion.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Apples and oranges. JBL's matches have been pushed as the centrepiece of the SD! PPVs. Benoit played second fiddle to HBK v. HHH. JBL is all over Smackdown!, Benoit wasn't.

 

My point exactly.

 

You can pick and choose whichever facts you want to make someone seem a draw. Of course, we're not pointing out the fact that Benoit had been given clean pinfall or submission victories over his main rivals, while JBL has basically got diddly squat on that subject...or for that matter, ANYONE on the roster. But nevermind that. We can forget that. Just like everyone forgets that Diesel had hideous competition for the belt. Forget that, Diesel sucks, he's a horrible draw. Just like JBL.

 

I'm not saying the facts aren't true, I'm not saying they're not valid. I'm saying it always irks me that people seem to twist and turn the ratings arguement whatever way they want, dependant on who the person in question is. Take for example, Eddie's ratings. When they were good, it was his doing. When they dropped, it was because Eddie wasn't being booked correctly.

[RedJed 0]

One person doesn’t necessarily make WWE a draw, but they can be a negative draw, if they’re getting a strong push and PPV attendance and buy rates sink, with no signs of turning around.

But like he said pretty much, fact is, how do you know? How do you know attendance is low, and buyrates are sinking because of JBL? I mean...you can guess that's probaly the reason, but then again, maybe people are tired of the Undertaker. Maybe people are turned away from SD because of Heidenreich. maybe people just aren't able to watch SD, so why should they buy the SD PPV? Not saying that JBL isn't a negative draw, because hey, I know there are some people out there who hate him..and won't order a PPV if he's main eventing. But..to put it all on him, just because he is the champ, just isnt' right. When Benoit, who's supposedly so great, was champion, RAW's rating, and PPV buyrate defintely, still weren't at their best. Even if he wasn't pushed as the greatest...he was champion, so the buyrate/rating all depends on him right? So 'his greatness' alone should have made the buyrates raise like a mother...even if, like Bad Blood, he wasn't pushed as the main event.

 

Then I guess you’ve missed, or most likely ignored, the fact that with him as WWE Champion, buy rates and attendance for SD shows is sinking like a stone.

And this just goes with the above. Maybe some don't like Tough Enough?> (even though it was usally one the higher segments) Maybe people hate the commentary..etc, it can be a number of things, so I don't think saying it's all JBL is justifyable, because it's clear he's doing a good job...even if he is 'Crapshaw'. Who I'm not/wasn't a fan of, but I've liked him in this particular role. And he gets heat from the fans...and not that X-pac heat, so he must be doing something right.

Regarding TE, in the same light as I mentioned Meltzer broke down the ratings segment by segment by the main wrestler(s) featured, the TE segments every week actually did very well, so much that they already have greenlit it for next season.

 

To be honest, now that TE is done, it will be interesting to see how the SD ratings are, since that was one of the few things that was consistently drawing crowds.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Aside from WM XXI, every win Benoit had over Hunter, the sole top guy on Raw, was not clean at all, as there was always some interference involved. His big pin over Shawn on Raw was, once again, caused by interference. It amazes me, well it doesn't really, that people still can't grasp that a clean win doesn't always mean that the person getting the win is being put over.

 

And nobody 'picks and chooses' the facts when making a credible and valid argument. It doesn't make you look real good when such an argument is made, and you still try and make it like it's picking and choosing when it isn't.

 

As for SD's ratings, in the midst of Bradshaw's reign, they hit 2.5, the second lowest rating in the shows history, as well as hitting a couple of 2.6's. I do wish people who bring up the ratings as a defence would bother to take the time to actually check the ratings, to make sure they're not leaving themselves open.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

The sad part is many of you are probably only praising Bradshaw now just because he's been champ for so long and have been brainwashed by WWE into liking him since he's been getting so much focus. But then again, many of us despise HHH so its a case of pick your poison. Go for HHH because he's obviously the better man or go for JBL because he's something new, a breath of fresh air so to speak.

Maybe we're just not all lemmings who like whoever the "workrate" guys tell us to like.