Hitler

[Guest Failed Mascot]

I think we should get the emotion away from the issues of Hitler and Nazi Germany.

Yeah, he attempted genocide. So did a lot of other people. Americans even. Why is he worse than them? He lost a war. Was he evil? Pretty much... study this kind of stuff long enough and you will start to question whether it really exists, though. But he wasn't as evil as he's made to appear. I'm certain of that.

That's what I'm saying. Due to all the PR the Holocaust still gets today and everything Hitler is made out to be the worst of the worst. Truth be told though there are alot worse in history and its easier to acknowledge if you seperate the emotional attatchment that we still have from the Holocaust since as I said previously, all things considered its still fairly recent.

 

Stalin killed many more people than Hitler, even had his commanding officers shoot troops that tried to retreat from battlegrounds. They could have been outnumbered 100 to 1, but if you didn't go in and continue to fight and tried to flee you would be shot down.

 

TV has alot to do with all this too. They show so much shit on Hitler because of not only what he did but also his mistresses, background, and the way he died that people don't end up learning about the other tyrants in history.

 

And on an unrelated note Albert Fish was one fucked up old man.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Hitler is considered worse than Stalin because everything he did was pre-meditated. Stalin didn't have an objective plan to kill millions of people. For him it was the route he needed to take to continue to have control of his leadership. Hitler was willing to compromise his leadership and the countries position as a world power to kill Jews. His ww2 Jew killing spree left him short handed.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

Watch Triumph of the Will sometime. It won't make you a Nazi... but you'll understand.

We do get the revisionist version of Nazi Germany, most assuredly. It was a utopia in many ways.

Agreed. A real show of why even President Bush said "things would be a lot easier if we were a dictatorship." A lot of people attribute that to dumb things he's said, but it's actually spot-on. Nazi Germany was a showing of how efficient things could really be, even with a massive beauracracy.

The only time this doesn't work easily is if you suffer from paranoia and schizophrenia, as Stalin did. Doesn't make life easier when you think cabinet members you assigned only a week previously are out to kill you and take control.

[Art Sandusky 0]

TV has alot to do with all this too. They show so much shit on Hitler because of not only what he did but also his mistresses, background, and the way he died that people don't end up learning about the other tyrants in history.

Him and Nazi Germany kinda deserve it though. I mean, it's an endlessly fascinating subject that's enhanced thanks to people of that generation still being alive and a lot of stuff that still has yet to be discovered, no doubt.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

Hitler is considered worse than Stalin because everything he did was pre-meditated. Stalin didn't have an objective plan to kill millions of people.

I think that's what made Stalin worse actually. Hitler actually had to fight the idea and then plan it all out and what not. Stalin just did it feeling it was fine because it came natural to him.

 

Hitler wanted the Jews out of control and all accounted for and kept in check but I believe it was one of his generals(can't recall the name off the top of my head, I know one of you will know though) that came up with the Concentration Camps and later on mass graves or throwing them all into a large makeshift oven.

[Special K 0]

For all the people that snark at France for being 'pussies', look up how many people they lost in the WW's. I believe the # they lost in WWII alone is close to, or more, than America has lost in wars THIS CENTURY. It's not their fault their leaders during that time were militarily inept.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Hitler is considered worse than Stalin because everything he did was pre-meditated.  Stalin didn't have an objective plan to kill millions of people.

I think that's what made Stalin worse actually. Hitler actually had to fight the idea and then plan it all out and what not. Stalin just did it feeling it was fine because it came natural to him.

 

Hitler wanted the Jews out of control and all accounted for and kept in check but I believe it was one of his generals(can't recall the name off the top of my head, I know one of you will know though) that came up with the Concentration Camps and later on mass graves or throwing them all into a large makeshift oven.

No way.

 

Becoming leader with the clear and concise plan to eliminate the Jewish race is infinitly worse than Stalin's irrational decision. Its like pre-meditated murder, they always get the harsher sentences than if someone does it on a wimb.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

Yes, and normally I would agree. Thing is I don't think Stalin did it on a whim but did it because he felt that was what was right and that's what had to be done. Now he planned out the murders of some cabinet members and also has whole regions wiped out so that he could take their wheat and grains to give to his men. The things that I use in my belief(this is just personal opinion mind you) that Stalin was worse is the fact he was able to come up with the militant laws of being shot if you retreat. Even Hitler didn't have this done to his troops.

 

Hitler was trying to conquer Europe and expand for the Nazis. Stalin was using his power to protect Stalin and didn't give a shit who went down as long as it wasn't him.

 

Stalin was a very paranoid and very cowardice tyrant. That combination is never good when you have the power and command he did.

[Highland 0]

I blame the entirety of Germany for World War II and the Holocaust. Fuck them and their protestations of ignorance. Goebels orchestrated the Holocaust, Hitler used his powers as fuhrer and his oratoral skills to tell the Germans what they wanted to hear and they willfully listened. Only a tiny minority of them objected to the tide of evil sweeping over them; them majority eagerly choosing to go with the flow, looking for anyone but themselves to blame for their economic woes.

Hitler was evil, leading his like-minded followers. An entire nation of them.

Watch Triumph of the Will sometime. It won't make you a Nazi... but you'll understand.

We do get the revisionist version of Nazi Germany, most assuredly. It was a utopia in many ways.

Agreed. A real show of why even President Bush said "things would be a lot easier if we were a dictatorship." A lot of people attribute that to dumb things he's said, but it's actually spot-on. Nazi Germany was a showing of how efficient things could really be, even with a massive beauracracy.

I don't deny Nazi Germany was efficient--they were notoriously meticulous with their records. I just reject the argument that the populace were unwitting pawns of the Nazi party and its policies.

As for Triumph of the Will, I haven't watched it yet, but I'll take your word for it.

And yes, things get done in dictatorships: It doesn't make them not-evil.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

things that I use in my belief(this is just personal opinion mind you) that Stalin was worse is the fact he was able to come up with the militant laws of being shot if you retreat. Even Hitler didn't have this done to his troops.

Hitler sure did do that to his troops. Why else did Germany keep fighting until 1945 when the war was essentially decided in 1943?

 

And sorry, I don't buy you argument. Stalin didn't care about the rules, he just did whatever he NEEDED to do. Hitler went OUT OF HIS WAY to eliminate an entire race.

 

Hitler is PERCEIVED to be more evil because he constructed devices and buildings to murder THOUSANDS of people at one time.

 

I agree that Stalin was more evil because no one was safe, not even his own family. Hitler just pre-planned everything, which in that sense, makes him seem more fucked up than Stalin. But really, Stalin had nearly 30 years to impose his stanglehold over his country. Had Hitler been given that much time, I could possibly see him as being more ruthless than Stalin.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

I just reject the argument that the populace were unwitting pawns of the Nazi party and its policies.

If you along with millions more were starving, had no shelter, and were on the brink of death I think you might be open to some new ideas.

 

The people that ultimately ended up following were those just looking for an answer to why this was happening and a quick fix to go with it.

 

I don't blame them entirely as they were looking to survive.

 

Hitler took advantage of people in a real shitty situation. People can say he's evil but they can't deny his charm and skill of manipulation.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

Banky will have to once again agree to just disagree, but I think its safe to say we can both agree that the world is better off without them.

 

Had Stalin ever tried to expand and conquer Europe like Hitler did I think the world may have been screwed big time. Thankfully in the end he just chose to have a strangle hold on Russia along with towing the line with neighbors. I don't think that the U.S. and NATO could have stopped Stalin and succesfully invaded Russia after WW2.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

People can say he's evil but they can't deny his charm

 

People can't deny Hitler's charm.

 

haha

 

that was rich

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Had Stalin ever tried to expand and conquer Europe like Hitler did I think the world may have been screwed big time.

Have you ever heard of the Cold War?

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Man, Frigidsoul just had the two dumbest posts in tsm history.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

People can say he's evil but they can't deny his charm

 

People can't deny Hitler's charm.

 

haha

 

that was rich

He had charisma. He didn't use it for good but you can't deny it was there. That trait is needed if you plan on getting a bunch of people to trust in you and feel that going allow with you is best.

 

He was also a womaniser so he was probably charming in the other way too.

[Art Sandusky 0]

For all the people that snark at France for being 'pussies', look up how many people they lost in the WW's. I believe the # they lost in WWII alone is close to, or more, than America has lost in wars THIS CENTURY. It's not their fault their leaders during that time were militarily inept.

The French also saw the northern part of their country virtually flattened just 20 years earlier. Americans will never really understand the current European diplomatic preference over conflict because we haven't had our countryside blown away in a century and a half.

 

'sides, the French knew their position was hopeless, and the British knew they had a chance still (and their population protected) thanks to simple geography alone.

[Nighthawk 0]

You could say charm is just another another way of saying charisma, which he definitely did have.

 

Yeah, I called that one. He wasn't a bad artist either. His artistic talent gets bashed as well. Because he's Hitler!

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

He was also a womaniser so he was probably charming in the other way too.

I'd like to meet your history teacher.

 

Hitler was not a womanizer, in fact, he was almost completely asexual. There have been studies based upon madness and lack of sex drive based upon Hitler.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

Had Stalin ever tried to expand and conquer Europe like Hitler did I think the world may have been screwed big time.

Have you ever heard of the Cold War?

Did Stalin ever invade England or anything like that? That's what I'm getting to.

 

The Cold War was like watching two people to see who would go through with what first. Nobody ever ended up really doing anything.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

He was also a womaniser so he was probably charming in the other way too.

I'd like to meet your history teacher.

 

Hitler was not a womanizer, in fact, he was almost completely asexual. There have been studies based upon madness and lack of sex drive based upon Hitler.

He had numerous girlfriends and what-not. Whether he fucked them is something entirely different.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Had Stalin ever tried to expand and conquer Europe like Hitler did I think the world may have been screwed big time.

Have you ever heard of the Cold War?

Did Stalin ever invade England or anything like that? That's what I'm getting to.

 

The Cold War was like watching two people to see who would go through with what first. Nobody ever ended up really doing anything.

Your original post said

 

"Had Stalin ever tried to expand and conquer Europe like Hitler did I think the world may have been screwed big time. "

 

Hitler never invaded Englad. Stalin had the Iron Curtain. No one could penetrate it. But Stalin's communism was inherintly flawed, thats why they lost. Dictatorships will never prevail over democracies. Stalin was more than ready to expand and conquer Europe like Hitler did. And he failed just like Hitler.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

He was also a womaniser so he was probably charming in the other way too.

I'd like to meet your history teacher.

 

Hitler was not a womanizer, in fact, he was almost completely asexual. There have been studies based upon madness and lack of sex drive based upon Hitler.

He had numerous girlfriends and what-not. Whether he fucked them is something entirely different.

He surely had little interest in them. Much like Stalin.

[Precious Roy 0]

Hey, George W. Bush has charisma too, and he likes pineapples on his pizza!

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Hey, George W. Bush has charisma too, and he likes pineapples on his pizza!

I'm glad someone at TSM is willing to bring Dubya into this debate because I see similarities between him and these dictators.

[Guest Failed Mascot]

Hitler did try to invade England though. He had a massive airstrike on them.

[Precious Roy 0]

And by the way, my grandfather read the first print of Mein Kempf and my father was born with the innate knowledge of it's content, and my father passed that along to my brother, who then told me about it.....

[BUTT 0]

He was also a womaniser so he was probably charming in the other way too.

I'd like to meet your history teacher.

 

Hitler was not a womanizer, in fact, he was almost completely asexual. There have been studies based upon madness and lack of sex drive based upon Hitler.

He had numerous girlfriends and what-not. Whether he fucked them is something entirely different.

I read somewhere that many historians believe that Hitler died a virgin.

 

And IDrinkRatsMilk, he wasn't that good an artist. I've seen his drawing of Eva Braun, it really isn't much better than that picture in your sig.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Hitler had girlfriends in the purely superficial sense. He was too insecure and socially defective to really be a womanizer. A guy who was too wrapped up in his own ideology (and only a little handsome at best) to bother with sex.

[Precious Roy 0]

Hey, George W. Bush has charisma too, and he likes pineapples on his pizza!

I'm glad someone at TSM is willing to bring Dubya into this debate because I see similarities between him and these dictators.

I do too, but I'm not going there. USA! USA! USA!