The Unspoken Truth Sorrounding Kurt Angle (LONG)

[Guest Jason]

Kurt Angle has been apart of the WWE promotion for about 5-6 years now. His success beforehand has been well documented. The man is a successful Olympian, winning the 96 ameatur wrestling event for his weight class with a broken neck. There's no doubt that Kurt Angle's athletism and passion for the wrestling business were unprecedented coming in. He had the ameatur background to create a backbone for his obvious advanced skills. He came into the company with a lot of hype because of his ameatur wrestling status and achievements. When he finally debuted, he surely didn't dissapoint. Angle made a very fast transition to the Professional Wrestling environment. He had no experience in the contrasting craft, but looked better than most of his oppenents. He than accomplished something that was again unprecedented. He won almost every single Championship that the WWE had to offer in the span of a year. From the European Championship, to the WWE Championship, Angle accumulated all the prestige and honor that each belt granted him and blossomed into a top-tier wrestler for the Company. He easily disposed of his adversary's with his lightning fast matwork and unparralled athletism. The fact is, no man has put on the quality of matches that Kurt has in his first 5 years of wrestling. He's a very special talent that can be classified as a prototype mat worker and a very gifted athlete. He's performed with all of the top stars, putting on seemingly classic after classic. But, people tend to overreact when analyzing his ringwork. Is he the greatest Professional wrestler of all time? No he is not. Does he have the potential and capability to reach that mark? That's a question that will remain unanswered for the time being.

 

My viewpoints constantly change when thinking about his technique in the ring and his actual ring ability. People have opened my eyes on a few aspects of his work. The positives regarding his ringwork are astounding. The aforementioned comments revolving around his athletism and matwork are still in tact. Kurt possesses the combination of speed, power and presense that would make any man jealous. He's pound for pound the most well rounded athlete in the entire company. The tenacity he displays weekly resembles Chris Benoit. Angle is very stiff regularly, without severly hurting his oppenent. That's a trait that I've always loved about him. His matwork is also fundamentally sound. He's quick and clean on the mat, executing innovative Greco Roman submissions. A style that has taken Kurt a relatively short amount of time to master. His execution is also impeccable. He's always incredibly crisp and stiff when functioning in the ring. His natural charisma is just an added bonus. Kurt will always manipulate a crowd while wrestling. He can keep a crowd interested in a match-up without the use of a microphone. It's just the magnetism and star quality about him. It's rare that you see such a good wrestler possess so much natural star power. Another factor with Kurt is that he comprehends a variety of ring styles. He's an adequate brawler and can fly when need be. He can also adjust the tempo of the match at any given time because of his speed and comprehensive knowledge of how to work on the mat. These are all admirable attributes that Kurt exposes on a weekly basis. But, not everything about his ringwork is defectless.

 

Kurt struggles on some things that many fail to acknowledge. Kurt Angle isn't your ideal worker because of a number of things. Kurt hasn't developed a sense of ring psychology. It's hard to expect him too. He's only been competing for a short amount of time. To obtain an ample quantity of ring psychology can take years upon years to acquire. With Kurt Angle, it's just not there yet. Kurt Angle has had a flagrant problem for most of his tenure in the WWE. He doesn't work a logical match. The purpose of Kurt Angle's offense puzzles a lot of people. Why disect your oppenents back, arms and neck only to finish with the ankle lock? If you're finishing sequence primarily targets your enemy's ankle, why not target the ankle prior to the hold? That would make sense, when you think about it. He systematically cripples his oppenent, than puts him into a lock that he hasn't even weakened or touched. That constitues as an important factor in judging his ring skills. Kurt also doesn't tell a sufficient and effective story in the ring. His matches just lack the meaning and progression storylinewise of a Bret Hart or Ric Flair bout. He's a decent storyteller, but he again gets too much credit for his work in this aspect. Kurt Angle can't patch up his ring psychology in an effect to tell a better story in the ring. He works on the back,arms and neck only to culminate the match with an ankle lock. If only Angle would of established his Angle slam as his permanate finishing move. His matches would of made for much better logic and the crowd could generally understand what his gameplan was.

 

I'm also not an avid fan over his selling ability. Kurt Angle is not a good seller by any means. He can make his oppenent look good, but he doesn't do the little things to make his enemy's offensive attack look more credible. Angle's intensity prevents his selling to look authentic. Angle's one of those guys that can't sell his oppenent's attack amply. When he gets back on offense, he forgets what they initially worked on. For example, back in 2002, Kurt Angle was working a program with Brock Lesnar. Now, he needed to have some time off, so Lesnar F5'ed his legs into the ring post. It was an ideal way for Angle to gain some well deserved time off. When he returned, Angle looked like he hadn't procured any ring rust. He was facing Chris Benoit at the Royal Rumble. Some say this was one of the greatest pure wrestling matches of all time. But, I tend to disagree. Angle ruined the bout because of his egotistical half assed long-term selling. Benoit, like the intelligent worker he is, isolated Kurt's legs and executed a well designed sequence in doing so. He went up top to hit the headbutt when Kurt was laying down and Kurt Angle popped up, disregarding Benoit's work on his legs, ran over and suplexed him off the top turnbuckle. This completely destroyed the matches integrity and made Lesnar's F5 come off as ineffective. Benoit was made to look weaker than Angle, thereby destroying his credibility on offense. Many of these instances have occured in Angle's career. It isn't his second wind guys, it's blatant no selling. Angle could of rolled out of the way and continued the match in that regard. He could of done a lot of things, but he didn't. He gave the fans some renewed excitement, at the expense of Brock Lesnar and Chris Benoit.

 

Going on to a different faset of his work, Angle's ability on the mic. There will be no critisisms on my part in this category. Angle's the epitome of a good micworker. His heel work is second to none in the company. Angle has a very charismatic hateable personality that just sticks with the crowd. Kurt can really get behind the crowds skin without saying a word. He's fluid and clear when he speaks and gets to the point quickly without getting offtopic. Angle gathers an astronomical amount of heel heat when he wants too. Kurt can play the conniving arrogant heel to perfection. But, his face work leaves me bewildered. Angle is an absolute awful face. Hell, the WWE had to take the belt off of him because of how incompetent he was. He always portrays the whiny, patriotic, cornball babyface that grows entirely stale in a matter of weeks. He doesn't gain the crowds liking, rather utilizes his American hero gimmick to capture the audience's support. He's just a natural heel figure who doesn't have the versatility to captivate a crowd's interest as a face.

 

In conclusion, Kurt Angle is a hell of a competitor. One of the best in the WWE currently. But, he's not the greatest professional wrestler of all time. To finally answer the question you've all been pondering over the whole time, I don't think Kurt has the potential to become the best professional wrestler of all time. Injuries are a heavy burden for Kurt Angle. He's not going to last much longer in active ring duty because of his various neck injuries. If his psychology would of evolved sooner, Kurt could of occupied the void that Bret Hart left when he retired. He isn't a bad technical wrestler. He just has some loose ends about him. I just don't think Kurt will go down as a legend in this industry. He is just a very good WWE style wrestler who has explicid matwork and substancial athletism. It's the truth but hey, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

 

Thoughts

[bob_barron 0]

Thoughts

 

You spelled surrounding wrong

[Guest Jason]

I couldn't edit it..sorry

[Only The Strong Survive 0]

I don't know why, but I read that whole thing. Maybe it's just the masochist in me.

 

Quite a pointless rant as these are all points that have been brought up countless times before.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

He than accomplished something that was again unprecedented. He won almost every single Championship that the WWE had to offer in the span of a year.

 

Diesel won every single WWF belt in a single year back in 1994. Just to be picky.

 

If you're finishing sequence primarily targets your enemy's ankle, why not target the ankle prior to the hold?

 

Because, technically, he shouldn't HAVE to. The move isn't sold as it should be, but the anklelock should be capable of breaking a man's ankle. So he doesn't NEED to work it over, because the guy in the hold is faced with the choice of tap out or his ankle will be broken. It doesn't matter how much his ankle hurts at the time; if it's gonna be broken, he HAS to tap.

 

But of course, the move is NEVER sold as being that dangerous, and Angle seems to perfer to use it as a virtual resthold these days, just standing around hugging the guy's foot for 5 minutes.

[Guest webmasterofwrestlegame]

Dave Melzter wrote a great article a while ago praising Kurt Angle for being as good as he is within the WWE system, basically saying had Jurt got to learn different wrestling styles in other promotions / territories, he would be even better, but because he only knows WWE style (and a comedic handling of his character), he, and WWE, suffers.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

He's a horrible technical wrestler. Remember this is the guy who was complaining to management during the summer because Eddie was staying down to sell moves when Angle just wanted him to get right back up so he could throw out another move. He's an above average inring guy but he usually needs a better worker to carry him and pace his matches out better. If left to his own devices he tends to just go the Kobashi route and go for suplex after suplex and anklelock after anklelock. He needs to use transition moves a lot more effectively.

[RHR 0]

This was an intresting read on your opinion of Mr. Kurt Angle.

 

It has inspired me.

 

Stay tuned fans, for my upcoming threads:

 

HIS TIME IS NOW: GET READY FOR SHANNON MOORE

 

A HOSS IS A HOSS IS A HOSS: SNITSKY AND HEIDENREICH---THE NEW BROTHERS OF DESTRUCTION

 

TEST---A FREE AGENT THE WWE SHOULD BRING BACK

[justcoz 0]

If you don't like the subject and "featured article" feel of the post, just don't read it. There is no need to mock the guy for posting. He warned in the subject title that it was a long read. I hate when people obviously sit down and take time out of their lives to post something, hoping to initiate discussion, only to initiate a string of smart ass remarks.

[yankovic fan 0]

In reference to moves leading up to the submission,

 

 

The Great Bret Hart always confused me in this aspect....

 

 

Leading up to the sharpshooter, he would do the Russian Leg Sweep, 2nd Rope Elbow, and then the Sharpshooter...

 

None of the two previous moves targeted the legs/lowerback, yet that is what I assumed the sharpshooter to cause pain.

 

 

(Also I think there was a 3rd move before the leg sweep and elbow... possibly a backbreaker? Either way, that doesn't make up for the other two)

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Hart's reasoning is that those moves always worked for him, so that's why he does them. As opposed to Ric Flair going to the top rope, where it has failed more than it worked.

[Guest LooneyTune]

For every successful move Flair has done off the top rope, he's failed 1,383,604 times.

[Boner Kawanger 0]

I always assumed the elbow before the Sharpshooter was to stun the opponent so that Bret could actually get them in it without them struggling.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And a few comments:

 

1. Consider your audience: You don't need to write openings detailing Kurts history. We know it. Right off the bat, in the first 3 sentences, say what you're going to be talking about so we, the reader, don't have to go through a huge paragraph just to find out what the next few huge paragraphs are going to be about. You lose readers that way, so stop jerking off in your writing and get to the point. Your writing is a HHH promo.

 

2. You exaggerate. A lot. You use too many adjectives and fluff words. You don't get credibility as a writer by writing huge articles, you get credibility by being focused and conserving your words. You throw around "astounding" "great" "amazing" "wonderful" "exceptional" "unprecidented" in almost every sentence. So how are we to guage what is good and what is great and what is astounding when EVERYTHING is astounding?

 

Don't bother responding word for word, I only have the interest in doing this once. These are suggestions, because I think your content was fine but your presentation was horrible. The questions are rhetorical.

 

Kurt Angle has been apart of the WWE promotion for about 5-6 years now. His success beforehand has been well documented.

 

If it is well documented, then why are you going to go over it?

 

There's no doubt that Kurt Angle's athletism and passion for the wrestling business were unprecedented coming in.

 

This is a silly quote, because while he was one of the most recognized athletes coming in, I would question his passion for it since he has said it (pro wrestling) initially was a financial decision.

 

He had the ameatur background to create a backbone for his obvious advanced skills.

 

Actually, the amateur background hurt wrestling-wise because he had to lose the instincts he developed. Amateur Wrestlers are trained never to get put on your back, so you can imagine how the transition must have been. In terms of training, determination, work-ethic, reputation etc. his amateur career was an asset. You have already said he was an amazing athlete and we know he is, so this quote has me rolling my eyes. If everything is obvious and has been said before, then why are you saying it?

 

He came into the company with a lot of hype because of his ameatur wrestling status and achievements. When he finally debuted, he surely didn't dissapoint.

 

"He surely didn't dissapoint" Spelling aside, this is fluff. It took a few months before Angle started to get praised, and I wouldn't say that expectations were too high for him - he was being brought in as a heel. You can say "He achieved too much in his first year." and the point would have been the same.

 

Angle accumulated all the prestige and honor that each belt granted him and blossomed into a top-tier wrestler for the Company.

 

Right now, you are annoying me. None of these words are needed.

 

He easily disposed of his adversary's with his lightning fast matwork and unparralled athletism.

 

How many times are you going to bring up his athleticism and mat work? For one, we already knew coming into this post that Angle was athletic. And if we didn't, we would have known by now. "disposed of his adversary's"??? Jesus Christ..

 

The fact is, no man has put on the quality of matches that Kurt has in his first 5 years of wrestling.

 

That's not a fact. Jumbo Tsuruta and Owen Hart have been heralded as great starters, and Benoit in the later-part of his first 5 years was amazing. Praising the guy for the quality of his matches and then below saying "Well, not really because here's what was wrong" is, again, wasteful writing.

 

He's a very special talent that can be classified as a prototype mat worker and a very gifted athlete.

 

You. Have. No. Idea. What. You. Are. Talking. About. Do you know who Kyoshi Tamura is? Nobuhiko Takada? Angles "mat wrestling" isn't on par with those guys. Volk Han? All Kurt does is ride guys, THAT'S IT. Mat Wrestling is more than spinning around on top of someone. Lesnar utilized his "mat wrestling" more effectively than Kurt did. Watch some MMA, see how its "really done" - watch Sakuraba vs. Carlos Newton - and then compare it to what Kurt does.

 

He's performed with all of the top stars, putting on seemingly classic after classic.

 

In one lengthy paragraph, you have made 5 points. "Kurt is really athletic", "Kurt's amateur wrestling made him a great mat wrestler", "Kurt Achieved alot" "Kurt put on great matches" "Kurt is overrated". What could have been said in 5 sentences was said in 15 (or 20, or 25...). Why 15? Because you've said 4 of these points over and over and over again.

 

My viewpoints constantly change when thinking about his technique in the ring and his actual ring ability.

 

Why is this in here? You are telling the reader that you still aren't sure of anything. Why should they have confidence in what you write when you don't?

 

People have opened my eyes on a few aspects of his work. The positives regarding his ringwork are astounding.

 

"The positives regarding his ringwork are astounding" I mean fuck, dude, you need to stop this. You don't need this as a transition into the next part, and it doesn't work well with the first sentence. If you lead-in with "People have opened my eyes...", then you follow it up with what those things are. And let us judge whether or not it's "astounding". Your continual praise and exaggeration don't help you here; you sound like a fanboy.

 

The aforementioned comments revolving around his athletism and matwork are still in tact. Kurt possesses the combination of speed, power and presense that would make any man jealous. He's pound for pound the most well rounded athlete in the entire company.

 

It is obvious, now, that you are trying to sound smart. We are all guilty of it, but you have to be the worst offender. And the worst part is what you are saying isn't smart at all - you are repeating yourself. It's very sloppy writing. You only need to say it once, if at all.

 

The tenacity he displays weekly resembles Chris Benoit. Angle is very stiff regularly, without severly hurting his oppenent.

 

I won't even get into the fact that Angle has injured more than one opponent in his career (most recently the tough enough kid... ok, I just did), but what does this mean? Stiffness, athleticism, tenacity, speed, power, "presense", credentials, athleticism. I see it as making Angle "real". But you will contradict this later-on, so why say it now? It doesn't serve a purpose.

 

That's a trait that I've always loved about him. His matwork is also fundamentally sound. He's quick and clean on the mat, executing innovative Greco Roman submissions.

 

1. Kurt Angle was a Freestyle wrestler. Not Greco Roman.

2. There is no such thing as a Greco Roman submission. There are locks and holds which are used to gain leverage, but the objective in wrestling is not to make the other guy submit.

3. There is nothing innovative about any of Kurt Angles moves. They've been done forever in Judo and Juijitsu.

 

You really need to either learn more about wrestling or stop talking out of your ass. You have been getting caught way too much.

 

*snip, I've gotten bored here and am starting to think this is an elaborate work on the board, because no one can be this bad unintentionally.*

 

"In conclusion, Kurt Angle is a hell of a competitor."

Are you JR? WWE-speak is bad. And this is your conclusion?

 

To finally answer the question you've all been pondering over the whole time, I don't think Kurt has the potential to become the best professional wrestler of all time"

 

We've been pondering that?

[Guest Quik]

Rudo's entire post

Agreed. Good writing is concise, effective in its use of words, and contains a central theme that is supported throughout. Focus on the concise part, especially when you’re writing on a message board. Rudo’s right, you spent more time repeating the same points over and over with fluff words than you did proving your point.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Not to mention there really is no point to this. The Angle debate was in 03 when he was being voted for in the WON HOF. Maybe if he got into WHY people overrate him (and Shawn Michaels for that matter, I believe the same reason applies), then there'd be something new to discuss.

[cabbageboy 0]

I actually don't like Angle's mic work THAT much. It's smarmy and amusing but that's not really what I want from a top guy. You have to take a top guy seriously. Oddly enough despite his crap wrestling I think Bradshaw is much easier to take as a top guy on the mic than Angle. Angle has always been too comedic and a joke, it's hard to take him seriously as someone who could kick ass.

[Guest The Shadow Behind You]

Rudo would make a great evil college professor.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I can't recall Angle ever cutting a money promo. He certainly hasn't done any on the level of Austin or Foley. He has weird pacing and kinda talks funny and is way too expressive in his head movements. He has a tendancy to repeat words, especially names. There was one instance with Lesnar where in every sentence he said "Brock". "You know something, Brock? I am going to kick your ass Brock. At Wrestlemania Brock, it's going to be you and me Brock."

 

There is one positive that hasn't been mentioned and that's Kurts pacing/timing, which is something that Shawn Michaels also excelled at. This is why people mistaken them for great wrestlers, because they work on and off of excitement at the expense of psychology, which makes you go "YEAH!! WOW!!! THAT WAS GREAT!!* ( Brian Alvarez), even though it doesn't play along with the story of the match. The Benoit/Angle match is a perfect example of it, but they do such an amazing job of getting the dead audience to respond and they do it systematically and build off of each heat spot that -though it lacks certain elements- it's still a great match, because it plays up those other elements better than most great matches.

 

If you define the purpose of a wrestling match as something to get the fans cheering, then Kurt Angle does his job very well. The WWE works under this premise, and someone like Meltzer would say that since that's the objective of a WWE match, and if Kurt Angle is great at doing it, then Kurt Angle is a great wrestler. I don't agree with that. Being good at wrestling a bad, flawed, style doesn't cut it with me. I appreciate getting a crowd reaction through storytelling more than through spots; what Kurt, and by extension the WWE, does is the equivalent of poop jokes, boob shots, or footballs to the groin. The pop-up suplex, or in HBK's case the nip up, is an old rich man getting hit with a pie. There's some points in how they build to the spot and arrange it, but it's a spot nonetheless.

 

To obtain an ample quantity of ring psychology can take years upon years to acquire.

 

Can we, like, frame this? Maybe make it the Smartmarks slogan?

[Guest fanofcoils]

Wasn't Angle over as a face before 9/11?

[Guest LooneyTune]

Not THAT over. Not at the levels of over the #1 Face on the Roster should be. He got big reactions at Summerslam 2001 because he kicked out of 2 Stunners (the 2nd of 3 knocked him out of the ring, so Ignore counting that as kicking out of 3).

[cabbageboy 0]

Rudo is dead on re: Angle's promos. I dunno if anyone else has delved much into this, but here's another reason I am hesitant to regard Angle highly. He rips people off too much. Angle's matches often revolve around him doing the anklelock (Ken Shamrock), the triple belly to back suplexes (Benoit), and sometimes he uses the old figure 4 around the post (Bret). It's like watching an indie guy pay tribute to the serious wrestlers he's seen on TV.

 

Rudo is also correct in pointing out that just getting the crowd to pop during your match isn't the same as having a good match. There's a certain....manipulative aura to Angle's matches. The Austin ones for instance, or the Edge series. They are mainly "Hey I'll hit you with my finisher and you kick out, then you hit me with yours and I'll kick out!"

 

I recall that one PPV with Angle/Edge and people raved about it, whereas I much preferred the Eddie/RVD match on the show. It didn't have as many near falls, but the actual flow and psychology (in an RVD match?!) was better.

[Guest LooneyTune]

I'm guessing Backlash 2002 that was at? I think that was the better Angle/Edge match. Could've been Judgment Day, but I haven't seen it in quite a long time.

[Toshiaki Koala 0]

I won't even get into the fact that Angle has injured more than one opponent in his career (most recently the tough enough kid... ok, I just did), but what does this mean? Stiffness, athleticism, tenacity, speed, power, "presense", credentials, athleticism. I see it as making Angle "real". But you will contradict this later-on, so why say it now? It doesn't serve a purpose.

You typed "athleticism" twice. Other than that, a good reaming. I can't wait for Hunter's Torn Quad to respond to this thread.

[Si82 0]

Quite a pointless rant as these are all points that have been brought up countless times before.

Much like the rest of the postings Jason makes.

 

So what is "The Unspoken Truth Surrounding Kurt Angle"?

 

That fact is a good wrestler but not the best ever?

 

I already knew that.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

Hart's reasoning is that those moves always worked for him, so that's why he does them. As opposed to Ric Flair going to the top rope, where it has failed more than it worked.

But it's totally appropriate for the Flair "character" to continue to do it, because of his massive egotism, so it's STILL works as a spot.

 

God, Flair rules.

[The Dames 0]

Well, think of this way...

 

Flair won the NWA Title with a move off the top, believe it or not and would get very close near falls back in the day. Obviously today, it rarely works, but has anyone ever pinned Flair off a top rope miss? If so, I can't recall it.

 

He doesn't have much to lose, except maybe turning the tide of the match...but he always tries it as a desperation move anyway these days anyway.

 

Dames

[Guest LooneyTune]

Angle secretly wears womens lingerie when he wrestles.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

Well, think of this way...

 

Flair won the NWA Title with a move off the top, believe it or not and would get very close near falls back in the day. Obviously today, it rarely works, but has anyone ever pinned Flair off a top rope miss? If so, I can't recall it.

 

He doesn't have much to lose, except maybe turning the tide of the match...but he always tries it as a desperation move anyway these days anyway.

 

Dames

He nailed Vader with it multiple times every time they fought.

[The Dames 0]

Thanks. I forgot about that. Just another example of why Flair keeps it in his arsenal.

 

Wow, that was 11 years ago.

 

Dames