Batista over Benoit

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

Several people in the Raw thread stated they were very upset by the Batista/Benoit match. That they felt Benoit was being made out to be a jobber.

 

Wuh?

 

Benoit's record since jumping to RAW has been pretty incredible. I can only remember two TV matches, and one PPV match in which he lost cleanly (Orton beat him twice and so did Batista). HE LOST A MATCH. Lighten the hell up, it doesn't make him a jobber (God how I hate that term.), EVERYONE loses from time to time. The best thing to say about it is it was not a loss taken lightly. It was done for a specific purpose: to show Big Dave was in HHH's league.

 

To the people shouting "Keep Benoit strong!" I would remind you that Benoit has been kept very strong for quite some time, that is why his loss Monday means so much. I would also argue that you don't want Benoit to be kept strong... you want him to never lose.

 

I mean, Benoit had a chance to win up until the very end, and it took Big Dave stretching the rules a bit to pull it out in the end. That's about as protected a loss as one gets nowadays. HHH lost cleaner than that to Shelton Benjamin... TWICE.

[cawthon777 0]

I would also argue that you don't want Benoit to be kept strong... you want him to never lose.

And you would be correct in saying that. I don't want him to ever lose. But I didn't complain about it.

 

He may be kept strong but I think this is a sign that he's no longer in the running for the title. At least not for a while.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

But Benjamin got dropped after his wins over HHH, Batista is essentially taking Benoits spot (well, Orton took Benoits spot, so Batista moving up is putting Benoit down another notch). Batista was booked to get the crowd in his favour, to get him cheered over Benoit. I wasn't one of thoes calling Benoit a jobber, but if you don't see the harm this does to Benoit you're on crack. That was not protected at all. RAW showed the pecking order and Benoit was on the bottom of it with Orton and Batista as the favourites.

[Guest LooneyTune]

As long as it leads to a push of someone NEW and over, I don't care if he jobbed to Jesus... the lord, not the mexican who beat up Cena's magical healing kidneys.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

But Benjamin got dropped after his wins over HHH, Batista is essentially taking Benoits spot (well, Orton took Benoits spot, so Batista moving up is putting Benoit down another notch). Batista was booked to get the crowd in his favour, to get him cheered over Benoit. I wasn't one of thoes calling Benoit a jobber, but if you don't see the harm this does to Benoit you're on crack. That was not protected at all. RAW showed the pecking order and Benoit was on the bottom of it with Orton and Batista as the favourites.

I would argue that Batista has ALREADY replaced Benoit as the crowd's favorite; if anything this is just WWE acknowledging it. Plus, I don't see them demoting Benoit instantly either. if Edge wins the title, than benoit is the logical first challenger since they fought to a draw in the Triple Threat match.

[Guest LooneyTune]

When Benoit is feuding with the Intercontinental Champion and wrestling Heat far too often, then he's being depushed. Right now he's still neck and neck with the main eventers, it's just he's being passed over for World Title feud. It happens... even HHH took a few breaks from challenging for the world title last summer.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I would argue that Batista has ALREADY replaced Benoit as the crowd's favorite; if anything this is just WWE acknowledging it.

 

You'd be wrong. The crowd that night was pro-Benoit and through the match decided to cheer Batista because he had cooler spots and played to the crowd. Hence the pop at the end. Besides, you don't see the WWE clearly putting Batista over Benoit as being BAD for Benoit? Quit being stupid.

 

Plus, I don't see them demoting Benoit instantly either. if Edge wins the title, than benoit is the logical first challenger since they fought to a draw in the Triple Threat match.

 

Ah, so it wouldn't be Shawn Michaels - whom Edge put out of action and was gunning for last night... or Chris Jericho, who Edge C2W against last night and who tried to get back at during the main event. It would be BENOIT, whom Edge has ignored... That's it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

When Benoit is feuding with the Intercontinental Champion and wrestling Heat far too often, then he's being depushed.

 

For one, I never thought much of Benoits initial "push" where he was made to look like a dolt for weeks on end and then became a lame duck champion. But even under the dumbass pretense that such a thing could be called a push, it ended at Summerslam when he put over Orton and lost his spot and started to show up on Heat. He has since been losing ground to where he's probably #5 face behind HBK, Orton, Jericho and Batista, now. What do you call that? Going from #1 or 2 at Wrestlemania XX to #5?

 

Right now he's still neck and neck with the main eventers, it's just he's being passed over for World Title feud. It happens... even HHH took a few breaks from challenging for the world title last summer.

 

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

*board crashes under weight of Rudos laughter*

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

I would argue that Batista has ALREADY replaced Benoit as the crowd's favorite; if anything this is just WWE acknowledging it.

 

You'd be wrong. The crowd that night was pro-Benoit and through the match decided to cheer Batista because he had cooler spots and played to the crowd. Hence the pop at the end. Besides, you don't see the WWE clearly putting Batista over Benoit as being BAD for Benoit? Quit being stupid.

 

Plus, I don't see them demoting Benoit instantly either. if Edge wins the title, than benoit is the logical first challenger since they fought to a draw in the Triple Threat match.

 

Ah, so it wouldn't be Shawn Michaels - whom Edge put out of action and was gunning for last night... or Chris Jericho, who Edge C2W against last night and who tried to get back at during the main event. It would be BENOIT, whom Edge has ignored... That's it.

Batista's got a pretty big face pop, another big one for dropping Benoit on the turnbuckle, and a third for powerbombing him. Odd, for a crowd that was (supposedly) pro-Benoit, no one decided to boo the guy he was facing. Looks, like you're a tad behind the times.

 

I'd think health concerns would keep HBK out of the title picture for at least a month after he returns. Jericho will probably never be a solo PPV main event challenger again. That leaves Orton (which doesn't make sense), and Benoit.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Batista's got a pretty big face pop, another big one for dropping Benoit on the turnbuckle, and a third for powerbombing him. Odd, for a crowd that was (supposedly) pro-Benoit, no one decided to boo the guy he was facing. Looks, like you're a tad behind the times.

 

The crowd was chanting "lets go Benoit", so they weren't supposedly pro Benoit, they were pro Benoit. You could hear the Batista cheers pick up throughout the match because of the aforementioned moves and pandering. I never said Batista was the heel in the match, he just went in less over than Benoit and came out more over. Batista gained something, Benoit lost something. This was clearly explained in my initial post.

 

I'd think health concerns would keep HBK out of the title picture for at least a month after he returns. Jericho will probably never be a solo PPV main event challenger again. That leaves Orton (which doesn't make sense), and Benoit.

 

This is working under the assumptions of (1)Edge winning, (2)HBK still being injured (3)HHH sticking his nose of out it, (4)Jericho not being involved despite being the last one to be in conflict with Edge. That's a lot of assumptions.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

Batista's got a pretty big face pop, another big one for dropping Benoit on the turnbuckle, and a third for powerbombing him. Odd, for a crowd that was (supposedly) pro-Benoit, no one decided to boo the guy he was facing. Looks, like you're a tad behind the times.

 

The crowd was chanting "lets go Benoit", so they weren't supposedly pro Benoit, they were pro Benoit.  You could hear the Batista cheers pick up throughout the match because of the aforementioned moves and pandering.  I never said Batista was the heel in the match, he just went in less over than Benoit and came out more over.  Batista gained something, Benoit lost something.  This was clearly explained in my initial post.

 

I'd think health concerns would keep HBK out of the title picture for at least a month after he returns. Jericho will probably never be a solo PPV main event challenger again. That leaves Orton (which doesn't make sense), and Benoit.

 

This is working under the assumptions of (1)Edge winning, (2)HBK still being injured (3)HHH sticking his nose of out it, (4)Jericho not being involved despite being the last one to be in conflict with Edge.  That's a lot of assumptions.

Nope. By the end even (His Evilness) Scott Kieth admitted that the crowd was totally into Batista. And he's probably the biggest Benoit fan on the net. There may have been cheers for Benoit, but there were more for Batista. And if you didn't hear the massive pop, the signs (including the front row one that said "EVERYONE FEARS BATISTA") would have been a bit of a clue.

 

This isn't new, either. I remember Benoit being openly booed by a Washington crowd in the match where Batista intentionally DQ'd himself against him.

[CanadianChick 0]

Keith wets his Jeans for Batista now-a-days more than Benoit so...

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Are you even reading what I am writing?

[CanadianChick 0]

No, he obviously is not.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Is everyone forgetting why Benoit moved? Besides being another fresh face for Triple H to take on, his other purpose was to help out Batista and Randy Orton.

[Guest dropkickguy]

How is it that the WWE is going to move towards the future without creating new stars. The time tested tradition of the hot mid-carder beating the seasoned veteran has always worked. We saw that with Foley/Rock and Foley/HHH.

 

With that said I love Benoit, he's in great shape and he can have an awesome match with just about anyone. Benoit got a standing ovation after jobbing to Angle at the Rumble '03, that's a testament to his skills. I think that this loss adds to the potential for a more credible feud with Benoit/Batista, seeing as it has been established that Batista can beat Benoit. I wouldn't say Benoit is being made to like a jobber based on his loss to Batista. My favorite wrestlers always get jobbed out but when I look back on it is leading to something that is much bigger than that one loss. Although, there are your LJTTS i.e. Booker, Jericho, RVD etc.... I wouldn't place Benoit in that category... yet

 

Keep rockin'

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

Are you even reading what I am writing?

Yeah but I find the argument you presented (Pandering?) inane.

 

Was he pandering when he dropped Benoit's head on a steel bolt? if so, I guess the crowd doesn't like Benoit as much as you claim.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

You're a mod, make him.

[jester 0]

My only real objection to this is that Benoit/Batista could probably make a pretty solid feud. But they made it a Raw certain jerker with no hype.

 

Edit: If in a few months Batista is not a main eventer and has been shat on by HHH, then we have a REAL reason to complain.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

No, he obviously is not.

Look for my response down there. The argument itself is ridiculous, anyone who watch RAW could see that Batista got one of the largest face reactions of the night. Even nikjohns mentioned it in his RAW review in reference to the lower number of cheers Orton got.

 

People seem to be more excited about Batista than any face for a long time.

[CanadianChick 0]

*Shakes her fist*

 

 

LISTEN!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope that works.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

You're a mod, make him.

Okay, now you read my argument. Yours was stupid. Mine might be, but at leats I kept it short.

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

And if Benoit lost so much from one match, than he clearly didn't have much to begin with.

[CanadianChick 0]

No, he obviously is not.

Look for my response down there. The argument itself is ridiculous, anyone who watch RAW could see that Batista got one of the largest face reactions of the night. Even nikjohns mentioned it in his RAW review in reference to the lower number of cheers Orton got.

 

People seem to be more excited about Batista than any face for a long time.

That can be your point all you want. Your still not listening to what he is saying.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Did you even watch the match?!? Batista was going "GWAAAAAAAH!!!" and "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!" after, like, every move. That's looking for a crowd reaction. The powerspot at the end was made to impress people and JR sold it like that.

 

By the end even (His Evilness) Scott Kieth admitted that the crowd was totally into Batista.

 

And if you didn't hear the massive pop, the signs (including the front row one that said "EVERYONE FEARS BATISTA") would have been a bit of a clue.

 

... is inane (They showed more Benoit signs including "I paid to see Benoit") and Keith saying "The crowd was deeply into Batista by the end of that one." SUPPORTS MY ARGUMENT. Jesus fucking christ.

 

1. Benoit came into the match a bigger fan favourite than Batista.

2. Due to Batistas pandering and power spots the crowd cheered him more.

3. The outcome was Batista being in a stronger position than Benoit, dropping Benoit down a spot. Thus hurting Benoit.

[zyn081 0]

I would also argue that you don't want Benoit to be kept strong... you want him to never lose.

And you would be correct in saying that. I don't want him to ever lose. But I didn't complain about it.

 

He may be kept strong but I think this is a sign that he's no longer in the running for the title. At least not for a while.

I would say order of faces is:

 

Jericho

HBK

Batista

Orton

Benoit

 

Order of heels:

 

HHH

Edge

Snitsky

 

Kane & Flair are tweeners.

 

Snitsky has to be dropped like a bad habit by Kane, to complete his face turn. Batista turns face completely. Benoit turns heel (he really needs refreshing). HBK is sent to SD! and can stop pissing me off there. And Lesnar joins as an obvious heel.

 

That means faces would be Jericho, Batista, Orton and Kane. Heels HHH, Edge, Benoit and Lesnar.

 

SD! would have the faces of UT, RVD (candidate for a heel turn), Booker and TBS. Heels JBL, Angle (candidate for a face turn), HBK and Eddie (who really needs refreshing also).

 

On another note, why didnt Batista face Regal and Benoit face Snitsky rather then Rhyno and Viscera. Regal and Snitsky most probably have a better claim to taking a spot in the EC, like Benjamin, Maven, Eugene and Christian.

[alfdogg 0]

Several people in the Raw thread stated they were very upset by the Batista/Benoit match. That they felt Benoit was being made out to be a jobber.

Our definitions of "several" must be extremely different. I just read through the thread, there was one person who said he looked like a jobber, and considering the person who said it, I don't see why this is being taken so seriously.

 

And for the record, I have no problem at all with Benoit's loss.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Is everyone forgetting why Benoit moved? Besides being another fresh face for Triple H to take on, his other purpose was to help out Batista and Randy Orton.

 

Of course, I was saying that before Benoit even won the Rumble last year. That's part of the reason why Benoits "push" sucked and I hated it - they never intended on making him into anything . I didn't even complain after Benoit lost last-night because I enjoyed the match, but when someone says it was a "protected loss" then they are nuts.

 

Benoit turns heel (he really needs refreshing).

 

Oh god NO. There's way to refresh someone without turning him. Benoit works better as a face, fans appreciate his effort and cheer him with much more enthusiasm than they do when they boo him.

[alfdogg 0]

And Orton is not more over than Benoit. Orton gets face heat from the girls, that's it.

[zyn081 0]

Did you even watch the match?!? Batista was going "GWAAAAAAAH!!!" and "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!" after, like, every move. That's looking for a crowd reaction. The powerspot at the end was made to impress people and JR sold it like that.

 

By the end even (His Evilness) Scott Kieth admitted that the crowd was totally into Batista.

 

And if you didn't hear the massive pop, the signs (including the front row one that said "EVERYONE FEARS BATISTA") would have been a bit of a clue.

 

... is inane (They showed more Benoit signs including "I paid to see Benoit") and Keith saying "The crowd was deeply into Batista by the end of that one." SUPPORTS MY ARGUMENT. Jesus fucking christ.

 

1. Benoit came into the match a bigger fan favourite than Batista.

2. Due to Batistas pandering and power spots the crowd cheered him more.

3. The outcome was Batista being in a stronger position than Benoit, dropping Benoit down a spot. Thus hurting Benoit.

Benoit has lost ground at the expense of Batista. I mean Benoit went from World Champ at SummerSlam to teaming with Regal at Unforgiven to chasing the Tag Straps at Taboo Tuesday and being eliminated 1st in the Classic SurSer Elimination Match if I am not mistaken. If that it is not a quick decline, I dont know what is.

 

I would love to see Benoit or jericho win the EC but thats not going to happen. The way RAW has built it is either HHH, Batista, Orton or Edge; and I can see HHH and Batista inadvertently eliminating each other.

 

Benoit has got to turn heel and do so quickly, him and a face Jericho for the World Title at WMXXI would be off the chart.

 

You cant blame Batista for playing to the crowd. He has been fantastic to a T in the past few weeks. Hes there to turn the fans towards him. I cant believe people are having a go at him for doing his job.