Bring back the Pain!

[Guest Jason]

Say what you will about the guy, but if WWE are contemplating bringing back Brock Lesnar, they should conclude with a resounding YES! When you analysis and nit-pick with someone enough, they’ll never be perfect, but compared to modern day WWE prospects, Brock Lesnar truly was ‘The Next Big Thing!” in every sense of the name.

 

First, something has bothered me a bit since Mania, and that’s the infamous quote that “Brock Lesnar sold out”. Now I have a problem with that statement, because the fact is Brock DIDN’T sell out! Lesnar was on a $10,000,000 a year contract with WWE, he was secured for life in the job, and he left it to become unemployed and try his luck in the NFL. Isn’t selling out when you accept more money than you were previously on, like Nash & Hall going to WCW, and The Rock going to Hollywood?

 

Brock Lesnar seemed to have 2 life goals; be a Professional wrestler, and be an NFL Football player. At the age of 26, Brock had risen to the top of the wrestling world, winning the WWE champion on 3 separate occasions. He had achieved a life goal, and everyone would agree that it was in astonishing fashion. So now Brock has a dilemma. He’s sitting in a nice job, raking in cash and having a good life, but in the back of his mind he must have been thinking “what if”. What if he gave it a try at the NFL. This isn’t something he would have much time to think about, he was still young, but to be a success in the NFL, he would have to try for it now. You only get one shot, so with all goals accomplished on the wrestling front, Brock simply had to at least try out for American Football. Each and every single one of us would do the exact same if we felt the way he did, and truly believed we had a chance.

 

Now, it doesn’t look like Brock has made in the NFL, but the main thing is he tried. He won’t be looking back when he’s old and thinking ‘Could I have done it?” Brock did something he had to do, and a grudge shouldn’t be held against him because of it. At least Brock had the decency to work the WrestleMania 20 match, unlike other who have just walked out without warning. Since leaving, he’s left a void in the SmackDown roster, and now is the time to bring back the pain. Triple H can say whatever the fuck he wants, but fact is he’s just another wrestler in the fans eyes, he doesn’t own the damn promotion. Most fans don’t see him as the best wrestler in the company, far from it, and that’s because he isn’t. Triple H fears Brock Lesnar. He fears a man that is younger than him, who has a better physic than him, who is a better Professional wrestler than him, and who was more over than him. Triple H doesn’t want to share his stolen spotlight, but it’s time for Vince McMahon to become the man we though he was, and to put his business in front of his Son-In-Law.

 

I’ll admit, when I first heard that this 24 year old (almost 25) had won the WWE championship, I couldn’t believe it. I was thinking of the sacrifices and earnings of the likes of Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero, and the way they had never held the big one and that almost pissed me off. But when I saw Brock, my opinion began to chance. Brock busted his ass off in Amateur wrestling for years and he spent a fair amount of time down in OVW. Brock winning the title was also understandable. This was a man who is arguably pound-for-pound, the most athletic man to ever grace a Professional wrestling ring. He had a hugely impressive physic and great ring skills; people like that don’t come around very often, to say the least. Now I mean no offence to Randy Orton fans, but I just see nothing special in the guy. He isn’t that good in the ring, he doesn’t awe people with his mic work, and his body is good, but it’s not imposing. Brock is the real deal when it comes to comes to rookie sensations.

 

So what are your thoughts on WWE bringing back 'the pain'? Should they, or shouldn't they?

[Guest Coffey]

He's in Japan.

 

EDIT: I just wanted to say that I think Jason is a good poster. I didn't really reply in-depth to this topic, because honestly it's kindof old news. However, the majority of his other posts are lengthy, well-written and at least provide SOME discussion. People are too quick around here to just shrug off what he writes though. Perhaps it's because it comes across as an informative article instead of a post on a message forum? All the little details and whatnot are lost on the "smarks" because they've known about that shit for months, and in some cases years.

 

Perhaps you should write posts as if they're posts instead of writing like you're trying to inform an uneducated fanbase? This isn't Sports Illustrated, we know what's going on.

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

Stopped reading after the $10 million a year part.

[Guest Loss]

Jason, you said you were leaving the board. I'm kicking you out of this folder for having the nerve to come back.

[Guest Coffey]

^ That's what I'm talking about. He's probably the best "new" poster TSM has had in over a year, and he gets ran off.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Have you seen his posts outside of this folder?

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

Have you seen his posts inside of this folder?

[Guest Coffey]

No, but how does that relate to the issue at hand? This is the WWE folder. It NEEDS the content.

[Angle-plex 0]

Jason, you said you were leaving the board. I'm kicking you out of this folder for having the nerve to come back.

Loss, did I mention that I love you?

[Guest Loss]

Coffey, I'm tempted to kick you out of here for having bad tastes, but I'll refrain.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

No, but how does that relate to the issue at hand? This is the WWE folder. It NEEDS the content.

Look at some of his other posts. He likes to talk about how Hitler was misunderstood and how he hates homosexuals and Jews

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Have you seen his posts inside this folder?

 

God that was horrible, and I LIKE Brock Lesnar.

[Guest Loss]

And he refuses to admit when he's incorrect about something and instead argues the point to where it's so annoying that he drives away other posters. Remember Hunter's Torn Quad? The REAL best new poster we've had hear in some time? He left because he was tired of dealing with Jason.

[Mole 0]

Have you seen his posts inside this folder?

 

God that was horrible, and I LIKE Brock Lesnar.

This is why I heart you RRR.

 

And what happened to the good ol' banning Loss?

[{''({o..o})''} 0]

Ah, fuck. Now I really dislike Jason.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

And he refuses to admit when he's incorrect about something and instead argues the point to where it's so annoying that he drives away other posters. Remember Hunter's Torn Quad? The REAL best new poster we've had hear in some time? He left because he was tired of dealing with Jason.

Wait a minute.............. HE LEFT!!!!!!!!!

 

Well fuck, that really really sucks.

[Guest Loss]

Not "left", but just got tired of dealing with Jason and as a result just sort of stopped coming around. I'm sure he'll be "back" soon.

[Black Lushus 0]

people get THAT upset at others that they leave this board?

[Guest Loss]

people get THAT upset at others that they leave this board?

I probably didn't use proper wording. I explained above.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I can understand why he would give up. The New Japan thread was really irritating as Jason was dead wrong, everyone was pointing out exactly why he was wrong, and basically his only debating point was that we were wrong.

 

EDIT: There's also the thread where RRR tore his first post apart and Jason never even attempted to respond.

[Black Lushus 0]

people get THAT upset at others that they leave this board?

I probably didn't use proper wording. I explained above.

Ah, I see that now, I hate when I post at the exact same time as someone who would answer my questions...

[Jingus 0]

Well goddamnit, where do I even START with this one?

 

Say what you will about the guy, but if WWE are contemplating bringing back Brock Lesnar, they should conclude with a resounding YES! When you analysis and nit-pick with someone enough, they’ll never be perfect, but compared to modern day WWE prospects, Brock Lesnar truly was ‘The Next Big Thing!” in every sense of the name.

 

When you make half a dozen grammatical mistakes in your first paragraph, people aren't likely to take you seriously.

 

First, something has bothered me a bit since Mania, and that’s the infamous quote that “Brock Lesnar sold out”. Now I have a problem with that statement, because the fact is Brock DIDN’T sell out! Lesnar was on a $10,000,000 a year contract with WWE, he was secured for life in the job, and he left it to become unemployed and try his luck in the NFL.

 

Ten million? Contracted? PER YEAR? Where the fuck did you get that number? Nobody gets that much money. Now, with merchandising sales, PPV and house show payoffs, and video royalties, yeah, Brock theoretically might've made that much in total, but he sure as hell didn't get that much in his contractual downside guarantee.

 

Isn’t selling out when you accept more money than you were previously on, like Nash & Hall going to WCW, and The Rock going to Hollywood?

 

Firstly, the WWF was on the verge of firing Hall for his personal problems anyway, and nobody's ever accused Nash of being the selfless type ("Hey guys, I have a great idea, I'll be the one to beat Goldberg!"). Secondly, The Rock going to Hollywood and making decent movies which made good money reflects well on the WWE every time he goes back; Lesnar abandoning ship without much warning and then crapping out of spring training hardly reflects well on a former world champion.

 

Brock Lesnar seemed to have 2 life goals; be a Professional wrestler, and be an NFL Football player. At the age of 26, Brock had risen to the top of the wrestling world, winning the WWE champion on 3 separate occasions. He had achieved a life goal, and everyone would agree that it was in astonishing fashion.

 

Brock succeeded in pro wrestling because he was a tall muscular guy who wrestled slightly better than most tall muscular guys. He was a success because he was given the biggest push since the Ultimate Warrior's heyday. There are plenty of other workers out there who could've done the exact same thing. And besides, didn't he go around burying the WWE and pro wrestling in general, saying it was something he never really wanted to do in the first place and only really did it for the money? Nice dream.

 

So now Brock has a dilemma. He’s sitting in a nice job, raking in cash and having a good life, but in the back of his mind he must have been thinking “what if”. What if he gave it a try at the NFL. This isn’t something he would have much time to think about, he was still young, but to be a success in the NFL, he would have to try for it now. You only get one shot, so with all goals accomplished on the wrestling front, Brock simply had to at least try out for American Football. Each and every single one of us would do the exact same if we felt the way he did, and truly believed we had a chance.

 

I can't fault him for wanting to try, sure. But giving the company he works for about a week and a half's notice of his retirement and then splitting wasn't the best way to handle it.

 

Now, it doesn’t look like Brock has made in the NFL, but the main thing is he tried. He won’t be looking back when he’s old and thinking ‘Could I have done it?” Brock did something he had to do, and a grudge shouldn’t be held against him because of it.

 

He didn't HAVE to do it, it was his own choice. Brock's a grown-ass man and can make his own decisions. Except for when they're made for him, like the NFL sending him home for sucking.

 

At least Brock had the decency to work the WrestleMania 20 match, unlike other who have just walked out without warning.

 

No, that he HAD to do. If Brock had pulled out of his match at Mania without a damn good reason, Vince could've rightfully sued him for breach of contract.

 

Since leaving, he’s left a void in the SmackDown roster, and now is the time to bring back the pain.

 

What void? Bradshaw and Eddy got elevated and entertained me more than Brock ever did, while Heidenreich came in to fill his old "lumbering dumbfuck who's managed by Heyman and feuds with Taker forever" role.

 

Triple H can say whatever the fuck he wants, but fact is he’s just another wrestler in the fans eyes, he doesn’t own the damn promotion. Most fans don’t see him as the best wrestler in the company, far from it, and that’s because he isn’t. Triple H fears Brock Lesnar. He fears a man that is younger than him, who has a better physic than him, who is a better Professional wrestler than him, and who was more over than him. Triple H doesn’t want to share his stolen spotlight, but it’s time for Vince McMahon to become the man we though he was, and to put his business in front of his Son-In-Law.

 

Christ, who are you, Sable? Brock Lesnar has never been a better wrestler than HHH, and he's certainly never been more over than him. He is younger, yeah, but then again Trips has been squashing Jericho for years and they're about the same age. Also, "the man we though he was"? When has ANYONE EVER accused VINCE MCMAHON of being moral and fair?

 

I’ll admit, when I first heard that this 24 year old (almost 25) had won the WWE championship, I couldn’t believe it. I was thinking of the sacrifices and earnings of the likes of Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero, and the way they had never held the big one and that almost pissed me off.

 

It's a work, pal. The belt's just a prop. Brock never "won" shit. Also, the match in which he won it... three words: Shooting Star Driver.

 

But when I saw Brock, my opinion began to chance. Brock busted his ass off in Amateur wrestling for years and he spent a fair amount of time down in OVW.

 

Three more words: Kurt Fucking Angle, who did all that and much more to get where he is now. Brock had it handed to him by comparison.

 

Brock winning the title was also understandable. This was a man who is arguably pound-for-pound, the most athletic man to ever grace a Professional wrestling ring. He had a hugely impressive physic and great ring skills; people like that don’t come around very often, to say the least.

 

I hope you got paid something to write all that. "The most athletic man to ever grace a professional wrestling ring." Brock was rarely the most athletic man in the ring during his own matches.

 

Now I mean no offence to Randy Orton fans, but I just see nothing special in the guy. He isn’t that good in the ring, he doesn’t awe people with his mic work, and his body is good, but it’s not imposing. Brock is the real deal when it comes to comes to rookie sensations.

 

What does Brock have that Randy doesn't? Brock's maybe an inch or two taller, a few kilos heavier, has real wrestling credentials which don't mean shit in the world of fake wrestling, but nothing else. And why claim that Orton's mic work sucks when you're praising a guy who's so awful on the mic that they didn't even let him speak hardly a word before he was given the world title?

 

So what are your thoughts on WWE bringing back 'the pain'? Should they, or shouldn't they?

 

Let me put it to you very simply: ever since Brock came to the WWE, business has consistently dropped. PPV buys, ticket sales, everything has done nothing but shit itself right down the john since Brakkus Lesnar arrived on the scene. And despite that, he was paid handsomely and given a push that dwarfed any other in the company's recent history. And despite that, he suddenly abandoned the company without much warning, and said negative things about it to the press afterwards. And despite THAT, he's apparently been calling Vince's office every day begging to get back in.

 

In short: fuck Brock.

 

EDIT: thanks Loss. Did he really say that shit about Hitler, jews, and gays? I feel a sudden pressing urge to check out this guy's other posts elsewhere.

[Gary Floyd 0]

He's also married to Rena "Sable" Mero I believe. I can see the two together now:

 

Brock: Hey Rena, ever done anal?

Rena: Well...that's a bit pf a persona question...

Brock" 'Cause if not, THEN IT'S TIME TO BRINGTHE PAIN!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Brock succeeded in pro wrestling because he was a tall muscular guy who wrestled slightly better than most tall muscular guys.

 

"Slightly Better". He was much better than Batista is today, much better than Nathan Jones, Matt Morgan, Jesus, Big Show, Kane, Taker, Albert - he was the best hoss they had, bar none. Brock got a huge push and it took a while for him to get over with the crowd, no doubt, but he was something special.

 

There are plenty of other workers out there who could've done the exact same thing.

 

In the role that Lesnar had? As a dominating wrestler? Who? Benjamin wasn't hitting his stride at that time, Batista certainly wasn't, Orton couldn't pull it off, Charlie Haas couldn't have. Sean O'Haire?? Maybe. He didn't have all the physical gifts that Lesnar had, but I think he could have pulled off something in that role.

 

I can't fault him for wanting to try, sure. But giving the company he works for about a week and a half's notice of his retirement and then splitting wasn't the best way to handle it.

 

Vince knew for a while that Brock was unhappy. Vince knew for 6 months before Mania. It shouldn't have come as a surprise when Brock said 2 1/2 weeks before. Was it the best way to handle it? No. Do I feel an ounce bit bad for the WWE that it happened to them? Fuck no.

 

Christ, who are you, Sable? Brock Lesnar has never been a better wrestler than HHH, and he's certainly never been more over than him.

 

He was better than him in 2003 and 2002. There was a point in the fall of 02 that Lesnar was more over than HHH as well.

 

Three more words: Kurt Fucking Angle, who did all that and much more to get where he is now. Brock had it handed to him by comparison.

 

Brock was a better wrestler at his peak than Kurt was at his. He had a much better sense of psychology and used mat work much more effectively. That has nothing to do with who the harder worker was, but since the name was brought up...

 

I hope you got paid something to write all that. "The most athletic man to ever grace a professional wrestling ring." Brock was rarely the most athletic man in the ring during his own matches.

 

You've got to be shitting me. Now you're into head-up-ass territory. Lesnar was athletically amazing. I would put very few wrestlers over him in terms of physical gifts.

 

What does Brock have that Randy doesn't? Brock's maybe an inch or two taller, a few kilos heavier, has real wrestling credentials which don't mean shit in the world of fake wrestling, but nothing else.

 

Better matches. Better movelist. Stronger. More effective in the ring. Smarter in the ring.

 

Let me put it to you very simply: ever since Brock came to the WWE, business has consistently dropped. PPV buys, ticket sales, everything has done nothing but shit itself right down the john since Brakkus Lesnar arrived on the scene. And despite that, he was paid handsomely and given a push that dwarfed any other in the company's recent history. And despite that, he suddenly abandoned the company without much warning, and said negative things about it to the press afterwards. And despite THAT, he's apparently been calling Vince's office every day begging to get back in.

 

In short: fuck Brock.

 

Are you implying that the decline of the WWE can be directly attributed to Brock Lesnar, or are you saying that Brock Lesnar failed to increase the companies poor position and should have for the money and the push they were giving him?

[Guest LooneyTune]

ANOTHER thread arguing over Brock? God damn it... I see the poster did the old "C&P the same thing except plugging in 2 or 3 different things to go with whoever it's about.

[Jingus 0]

"Slightly Better". He was much better than Batista is today, much better than Nathan Jones, Matt Morgan, Jesus, Big Show, Kane, Taker, Albert - he was the best hoss they had, bar none. Brock got a huge push and it took a while for him to get over with the crowd, no doubt, but he was something special.

 

I'd say that Taker is hands-down a better wrestler than Brock, and Kane ain't that far behind.

 

In the role that Lesnar had? As a dominating wrestler? Who? Benjamin wasn't hitting his stride at that time, Batista certainly wasn't, Orton couldn't pull it off, Charlie Haas couldn't have. Sean O'Haire?? Maybe. He didn't have all the physical gifts that Lesnar had, but I think he could have pulled off something in that role.

 

Not "plenty of other guys on WWE development contracts", I said "plenty of other workers". Samoa Joe comes to mind as one example.

 

Vince knew for a while that Brock was unhappy. Vince knew for 6 months before Mania. It shouldn't have come as a surprise when Brock said 2 1/2 weeks before. Was it the best way to handle it? No. Do I feel an ounce bit bad for the WWE that it happened to them? Fuck no.

 

I gotta admit, I never do feel bad for Vince whenever he takes a well-deserved screwing.

 

He was better than him in 2003 and 2002. There was a point in the fall of 02 that Lesnar was more over than HHH as well.

 

We're gonna have to agree to disagree here then, cuz even Gassed-Up Cripple H of that time period entertained me on a more consistent basis than Brock ever did.

 

Brock was a better wrestler at his peak than Kurt was at his. He had a much better sense of psychology and used mat work much more effectively. That has nothing to do with who the harder worker was, but since the name was brought up...

 

Better selling, maybe. Used matwork more effectively? What matwork? For an NCAA champion, Brock sure did love to lumber around throwing clotheslines and power moves just like all the other hosses.

 

You've got to be shitting me. Now you're into head-up-ass territory. Lesnar was athletically amazing. I would put very few wrestlers over him in terms of physical gifts.

 

He was tall, he wasn't a complete clutz, and he obviously figured out at some point how to stick a needle in his ass. But he didn't do anything that a thousand other athletes out there couldn't do. Compared to Rey Misterio, Rob Van Dam, or anyone similar, Brock didn't do much that impressed me.

 

Better matches. Better movelist. Stronger. More effective in the ring. Smarter in the ring.

 

But considering how much the road agents book the matches for their protected rookies like Lesnar and Orton, one always has to wonder just how much credit for any match can go to the wrestlers themselves for stuff like offensive repetoire, the spots they run, etc.

 

Are you implying that the decline of the WWE can be directly attributed to Brock Lesnar, or are you saying that Brock Lesnar failed to increase the companies poor position and should have for the money and the push they were giving him?

 

No, it can be directly attributed to the slow departures of Austin, Rock, and Foley; and a whole lot of bullshit storylines in my opinion. But I don't think Lesnar helped them any either, especially relative to the money and the push like you said.

 

Bottom line, I think I've only seen about three Brock matches that I've ever liked. I just find him overhyped and boring. Terry Gordy, Stan Hansen, and Jumbo Tsuruta were all similarly big guys who did similar stuff but did it much better.

[bob_barron 0]

Let me put it to you very simply: ever since Brock came to the WWE, business has consistently dropped. PPV buys, ticket sales, everything has done nothing but shit itself right down the john since Brakkus Lesnar arrived on the scene. And despite that, he was paid handsomely and given a push that dwarfed any other in the company's recent history. And despite that, he suddenly abandoned the company without much warning, and said negative things about it to the press afterwards. And despite THAT, he's apparently been calling Vince's office every day begging to get back in.

 

Yes- cause that's all Brock's fault. Nothing to do with how he was booked or anything or that business in general is down.

 

 

 

In short: fuck Brock.

 

Yea- fuck a guy who realised he was doing something he didn't enjoy and wanted to try something else. Fuck a guy for wanting to spend more time with his daughter. Fuck a guy for throwing away millions

[Jingus 0]

No, fuck him for being hypocritical about it and supposedly whining to try and get his old job back.

[bob_barron 0]

I'd say that Taker is hands-down a better wrestler than Brock, and Kane ain't that far behind.

 

 

No way. I consider Undertaker to be pretty boring and generally overrated- Brock's much better then him. And sayng Kane isn't far behind is pretty laughable. Kane's had about a few matches I'd consider good- nothing on the level on Brock.

 

Not "plenty of other guys on WWE development contracts", I said "plenty of other workers". Samoa Joe comes to mind as one example.

 

I love Joe to death but in WWE he'd look a lot less imposing and better.

 

 

 

We're gonna have to agree to disagree here then, cuz even Gassed-Up Cripple H of that time period entertained me on a more consistent basis than Brock ever did.

 

Triple H v. Undertaker in 2002<Brock Lesnar v. Taker 2002

Triple H v. The Rock 2002<Brock v. Rock in 2002

I also liked Brock's matches with RVD a lot more then Triple H's.

 

Brock's best matches in 2003 smoked HHH's.

 

 

 

He was tall, he wasn't a complete clutz, and he obviously figured out at some point how to stick a needle in his ass. But he didn't do anything that a thousand other athletes out there couldn't do. Compared to Rey Misterio, Rob Van Dam, or anyone similar, Brock didn't do much that impressed me.

 

Comparing Brock to Rey Mysterio??? Seriously. Brock could do a Shooting Star press. That's insane considering his size.

 

 

No, it can be directly attributed to the slow departures of Austin, Rock, and Foley; and a whole lot of bullshit storylines in my opinion. But I don't think Lesnar helped them any either, especially relative to the money and the push like you said.

 

Brock was never really the big focus of big PPVs

[bob_barron 0]

No, fuck him for being hypocritical about it and supposedly whining to try and get his old job back.

He probably needs the money and maybe misses it in someway. I don't blame him