It's not really the lack of quality wrestling

[Guest Loss]

I like you both, but you should both refrain. Please.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

But... I'm untouchable. You can't tell me to refrain!!!

 

*zip*

 

For all the flak I give the WWE, I must admit they have a brilliant business model. Any other show on television with the same quality (or lack thereof) would be off the air. Wrestling is an amazing property to have at the WWE's level, and the way the WWE has diversified its revenue generating streams has been the reason why it is.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

I agree with Loss, watching wrestling is one of the better and more unique types of storytelling we have in our culture. But here's the thing: If I wan't "Cinema" I watch ROH or Puro, or something. WWE is like the summer blockbuster that doesn't require deep thought.

 

But currently, it's the summer blockbuster that's so bad it's insulting. Kind of like the Punisher or a Seann William Scott flick. You could get involved, but the lack of consistency and plot development are HUGE.

[justcoz 0]

The Monday Night Wars were a really fun time to be a wrestling fan and that was the reason that both shows were drawing the numbers they did and people at your office, school, etc. seemed to be talking about wrestling rather than Monday Night Football. Even people that hadn't watched wrestling in years couldn't help to be intrigued by Hogan turning bad, guys from the WWF showing up on Nitro and Vince McMahon abandoning the whole era of family entertainment and creating new stars and characters in response. The simplest thing like Rick Rude showing up on Nitro while appearing on a taped Raw was just so f'n interesting. The actual in-ring wrestling didn't matter but it was beneficial that different guys brought upon different styles. The cruisers were bringing a different type of action that a Hogan or Nash main event. The bottom line is the business was just entertaining as hell and you didn't know what you would see from week to week. It was the same formula, building towards the PPV at the end of the month, but what both brands would do to top the other one made things interesting.

 

Right now, regardless of the fact that you have good workers who can put on good matches, the storytelling just falls flat. Everyone is forced to wrestle the same style with rest holds in cruiser matches, etc. Take something like the invasion angle or the brand split. This could of been WWE's way of recreating the era of Nitro vs. Raw had the creative teams done things correctly and had McMahon not allowed politics thru his family and yes-men to override sensible business. You could have very easily recreated the brand jumps, etc. with Raw and Smackdown with the dueling GM's trying to out do each other, stealing each other's talent, etc.

 

How would you feel if next week, Jim Ross ended up in the broadcast booth on Smackdown with Tazz? Or if Shawn Michaels showed up to confront Kurt Angle? Or John Cena interrupting a HHH interview on Raw? Basic suprises. And it could go further than that since there is no competition. So New Jack was at Raw on Monday night? Why not put New Jack on camera and have him interfere in the Diva pillow fight or something? Just to see if the crowd reacted. Why not have a suprise battle rap between John Cena and Randy Savage? Sign Savage to a four month deal or something with a couple PPV's, etc. It's not like he's going to show up on the "other show" anymore if he isn't signed long-term! Give Juventud an on-air try out match with Mysterio. Let Bret Hart make a one-time appearance at a Raw in Canada.

 

They don't think about entertaining the fan anymore. Breaking the formula from show to show. Suprising or shocking them. Yes, I can watch the product and "just enjoy it". I get a kick out of JBL's character. I mark out for Orlando Jordan anymore and I think the Bashams look pretty damn cool in the "cabinet". I'm not the typical smark in the sense that I don't allow myself to be entertained. I mark out for the backstage skits with Batista and HHH. The Internet doesn't dictate what I'm entertained by. But, as a whole, the obvious flaws of the shows anymore are the lack of suprises, not pushing new talent to the top and the shows looking the same as they did five years ago, right down to the tired JR-Lawler announce combo.

[CBright7831 0]

I hardly watched wrestling from September 02-May 03.

 

I missed the abomination known as Katie Vick, I missed most of Al Wilson (thank God), among other things.

 

I did see the posedown contest...for a second...then I turned it off/walked out of the room because it was stupid.

[Promoter 0]

Well, things like wrestlers fighting over their girlfriends instead of the wwe title on smackdown's main event storyline is pretty lame. I agree they need more surprises and less manufactured crap. During the monday night war, the above mentioned storyline would actually have some realism in it with the real life drama of the girlfriends of the wrestlers. As Flair always said during his "feud" with Vince...he takes one step forward and then takes two steps back. They will do something good and then do do something craptacular to make you forget the good. There was less of this during the war.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

On the "fighting over girlfriends thing", here's what I posted over at DVDVRMB...

 

You know, if Big Show was represented as the lonely giant -ostracised from society, and women in general, because of his size - and they played that up for weeks until he became a broken down man (let's say Kurt Angle kept putting all these women in Big Shows path, so they could laugh, act disgusted, and/or mock him) and then just when he is about to give up and go into exhile he meets Joy and her geniune love for him makes him stronger. So then when Joy is kidnapped and Big Show gets angry, it would actually seem believable, rather than laughable. This is the problem with the WWE creative team. They never make the initial investment and expect us to buy everything they sell us because "they say so". Big Show has feelings for Joy. Well, he kisses her, so he must!

 

...

 

And Vince said the "step forward/back" thing to Flair. It was in regards to WM 8 and, I believe, Flair blading.

[Some Guy 0]

I agree with JustCoz. There's no susprises. There can't be because there is no competition to take talent from. No one can just show up and already have an established name, they've run through Hogan, Hall, Nash, Steiner, Goldberg, DDP, etc... and fucked up with them for the most part.

 

I think they need to make the two shows completely different. No more SD! Rebound on Raw. No more duel brand PPVs. No more acknowedging the other show, except to take the occasional pot shot. Change the ring on SD! to a WCW style ring. Lose all the WWE logos and concentrate on pushing the brands instead. Set up the idea that guys on each show have contracts with that show, not an overall contract with WWE and that those contacts can expire. Treat it like it was when there was WCW and WWF. If someone's contact runs out, you don't talk about it on TV, the guy just shows up on the other show and starts there. Forget the draft lottery and all that.

 

Someone mentioned that the shows have had the same format for years now. It's true and it's boring. Mix it up a little. Lose the long ass promos. Have HHH drop the title to someone and then take a month long vacation so the other guy can, you know, get over as champ without some big nosed, juiced up, feather haired motherfucker still taking up all the TV time and being presented as the biggest star. They cut Benoit, Jericho, Orton, and Goldberg all off at the knees because they refused to portray them as the biggest star on the show. They need to pick a guy and push him the same way they pushed HHH. They gave HHH months and months and the world title 3 times before he got over and that took 2 straight, decisive and clean wins over Foley. Give someone else that push and that patience.

[Guest netslob]

Someone mentioned that the shows have had the same format for years now. It's true and it's boring. Mix it up a little. Lose the long ass promos. Have HHH drop the title to someone and then take a month long vacation so the other guy can, you know, get over as champ without some big nosed, juiced up, feather haired motherfucker still taking up all the TV time and being presented as the biggest star. They cut Benoit, Jericho, Orton, and Goldberg all off at the knees because they refused to portray them as the biggest star on the show. They need to pick a guy and push him the same way they pushed HHH. They gave HHH months and months and the world title 3 times before he got over and that took 2 straight, decisive and clean wins over Foley. Give someone else that push and that patience.

 

won't happen...Vince doesn't have any more daughters (at least, that we know of).

[Some Guy 0]

Someone mentioned that the shows have had the same format for years now. It's true and it's boring. Mix it up a little. Lose the long ass promos. Have HHH drop the title to someone and then take a month long vacation so the other guy can, you know, get over as champ without some big nosed, juiced up, feather haired motherfucker still taking up all the TV time and being presented as the biggest star. They cut Benoit, Jericho, Orton, and Goldberg all off at the knees because they refused to portray them as the biggest star on the show. They need to pick a guy and push him the same way they pushed HHH. They gave HHH months and months and the world title 3 times before he got over and that took 2 straight, decisive and clean wins over Foley. Give someone else that push and that patience.

 

won't happen...Vince doesn't have any more daughters (at least, that we know of).

I know, but that push started before HHH started fucking Steph. It's my understanding that they got together after the marriage angle in Dec 99. And since pickign HHH was sort of arbitrary (he was very over as a mid-card face while in DX, but never taken seriously by the fans because of his gimmick and his sub-par ring work), they might as well choose a guy and push him to the moon. The major problem I see is that the tow "locker room leasers" of WWE don't seem willing to put guys over, despite the fact that they've been put over everybody else on their way to the top. The one thing I can't figure out about HHH and Taker is where the massive egos came from? Neither have been big draws on their own. The only time they drew when Taker was champ was 99 when Austin was carrying the load (he had the belt for 3 day in 91 and his reign in 97 wasn't the reason for the WWF's improvement during that year) and Rock was doing it for HHH in 2000. Since then both guys have failed ot set the world on fire or draw a crowd or decent buyrate.

[Toxxic 0]

If Batista got injured again, and they fired or otherwise lost Regal and Jericho, I'd stop watching WWE completely. I've already stopped watching Smackdown simply due to the sheer mind-numbing dullness of it (JBL being a large part of it). I watch Raw because I'm actually interested to see what they're doing with Batista (unfortunately this also features the god-awful Triple H, but you've got to take the rough with the smooth), and Jericho and Regal are entertaining and can actually wrestle.

 

There are no surprises anymore, I agree. I returned to watching in the summer of 2000 when the Monday Night Wars were all over but the shouting, but even then they'd still do the occasional thing that would surprise me. Now - what is there that's surprising? There's no development anywhere except with Bradshaw, and that's a development i could REALLY have done without.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Bradshaws development sucked. One day he was the bad ass beer drinking Texan, the next day he's JBL.

 

I'd rather see more "Twists" than "Surprises".

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Good matches are important, and quality certainly isn't what it was two years ago when we had the Smackdown Six, Brock Lesnar, Matt Hardy & Team Angle being pushed heavily, but you are correct in saying that it is not the biggest problem. I love the 80s WWF because of great characters and payoffs, not because everyone was Chris Benoit.

 

It isn't necessarily the lack of surprises that is the problem, although a lack of unpredictability certainly is. The writers due a absolutely dreadful job of making competitors look equal or at the very least making it look like either guy can win even if one wrestler is favoured over the other. For some reason they love giving away the results of major PPV matches the week before the show, most recently with Randy Orton going over HHH clean on RAW before New Year's Revolution. Even the densest mark, and I know a few of them, could figure out immediately after that happened that HHH was walking out with the title on Sunday. The whole point of a 6-Man match is the anything can happen vibe, and they destroyed it. Likewise, if we have JR screaming 8 times a minute that Eugene doesn't stand a chance against Christian, it ruins the impact that his eventual win should have. Nobody cares about Eugene because the announcers are telling us he's crap, and Christian looks like a bigger joke for having lost to the guy. Contrast that to 15 years ago where Gorilla/Monsoon knew Hercules didn't stand much of a chance against Earthquake, but given the right circumstances and if Hercules wrestles a smart match, an upset could happen. Even the better Tazz/Cole duel has this problem, leading one to suspect that Vince is telling them to behave this way. It isn't surprises that is lacking, we don't need Austin running in on the main event or anything like that, it is the lack of feeling that anybody can win. Nobody is going to order a show that they know the outcome of, especially if it is an outcome they won't like.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

I think its a combination of things, at least for me. I like cruiser and tech wretsling, and I hate non hardcore brawling with a passion. I only get Smackdown. What do I get? Short, short cruiser matches with the majority of the time taken by JBL and Cena. RVD and Mysterio don't get to do their thing much when they fight folks like the Bashams. WWE needs to follow Heyman's style of booking, even if they don't use him. Keep the cruisers moving,bring back the hardcore division to help the limitations of guys like Cena, etc. They've done some good keeping Dupree and Kenzo mostly in the tag scene for a while, but otherwise WWE is screwing this up big time. Throw Angle against Hass again or try him and Puder, see what he can do. WWE has so much talent and they are squandering it right now. That's just on the wrestling side. The angles feel silly(The Angle/Joy nonsense) and really need more time and resources tha should be used on a wrestlign show. Build it up on simple feuds. Heidenreich/Taker is on the right path here, even if they aren't any good in the ring, it's really just a simple revenge plot. Angle/Show/JBl could be built on Angle wanti9ng to return cred to the belt(and who better than a gold medalist? Insert your own Kanyon joke here) and either Show wants to stop Angle, or have JBL lariat Joy(or Amy, or whoever his girlfriend is, I can't keep 'em straight). I hope I made some sense here.