The Monday Night RAW Thread (January 17th 2005)

[Guest hhheld_down]

i liked raw this week as well, the crowd helped alot. the bump in the ME would have been ALOT better if snitsky didnt blow it by talking. The rumble looks solid. the rumble match will be great, edge/hbk should be really good too. I dont know what to expect of the rest though. Never saw Unforgiven so HHH/Orton is in the air for me. the casket match should be at least somewhat entertaining if just for another homoerotic Snitsky/Heidenerape moment. As far as the WWE title goes, who knows? JBL retains, blah.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Snitsky can do whatever the hell he wants, because he rules.

No. He really doesn't. He was B-level horror movie funny when his character was a parody of big untalented indy wrestlers, but then he became a big untalented indy wrestler. Snitsky sucks.

 

 

(I still think Steve Hitler is the gimmick of the future.)

[Eclipse 0]

Last night's RAW was ok, but with the exception of the useless main event.

 

 

I loved HHH's promo against Orton. Truly brought out the asshole in him.

[Guest FromBeyondTheGrave]

Snitsky can do whatever the hell he wants, because he rules.

No. He really doesn't. He was B-level horror movie funny when his character was a parody of big untalented indy wrestlers, but then he became a big untalented indy wrestler. Snitsky sucks.

He's still hilarious. And he's not that bad in the ring.

 

Bischoff: "Snitsky, what the hell are you doing? You having fun?"

Snitsky: "Yeah, I'm having a BLAST!"

 

That's gold right there.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

And he's [snitsky] not that bad in the ring.

Yeah, he is.

[Guest FromBeyondTheGrave]

And he's [snitsky] not that bad in the ring.

Yeah, he is.

He's better than Heidenreich and Tomko. That's more than enough.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

And he's [snitsky] not that bad in the ring.

Yeah, he is.

He's better than Heidenreich and Tomko. That's more than enough.

As much as I like Snitsky, I think he's regressing right now. Heidenreich and Tomko aren't as bad as we have made them out to be. I think Tomko is getting progressively better. Sure, that Sweet CHin Music WHIFFED yesterday, but he is getting better with the power moves and all that fun stuff.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Heidenreich, Tomko, & Snitsky are all equally as bad.

[Dandy 0]

Snitsky>Heidenreich>Tomko

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I loved Benoit/Jericho. I'd give it ***, and say it was probably the best mat wrestling I've seen out of the WWE. I had low expectations going into it and was figuring the two guys would do their regular shit, but that was far from their regular shit. Really natural mat work, which you don't get outside of Japan, and a few high spots. If it went 20 minutes and was able to work more heat spots (which would have been hard given the dual nature of the crowd) and build towards a hot finish, that could have been a MOTYC. I think they killed a lil bit of the heat with the Hassan segment, but then again, they didn't work that many heat spots or did many high spots to ellicit a strong reaction from the crowd. That's why I think it's a bit erroreous to say the crowd was dead or confused for what Benoit/Jericho did. Why would we go NUTS~! for the mat work? There weren't many moments in that match that required us to pop, so we didn't. We watched the match. I only heard 1 guy yell out "boring", and he was a douche anyways. "Let's go Chris" was a great, fitting, chant.

[bob_barron 0]

A couple people around me were yelling for puppies and Trish and the Patriots but I ignored them.

 

I got some claps going during some of the mat segments and the crowd seemed respectful to both guys- hence the 'Let's Go Chris' chants.

 

The sudden ending was the only thing I had a problem with. It seemed like they were about to totally bust ass and then Jericho just rolled him up for the pin.

 

I thought it was a fine match though

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Claydude, was that you doing the "C'MON REF!!!" stuff? Seriously, that was hilarious.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

God, I heard puppies chants too, but not during that match. Maybe it was a different section, but I'm like, "Jesus fucking Christ, this type of fan still exists?"

 

A few more notes on the crowd:

 

- I was surprised by the lack of hicks. At other shows we (Curry and I)went to, there were copious amounts of white trash. Mullets, jean jackets, the smell of whisky, etc. Didn't see much, if any, last night. Maybe that was because we didn't wait in line AT ALL to get into the ACC. Which was almost the biggest joy of the night as for _every_ show we've gone to we had to wait an ungodly amount of time for the doors to open and to get into the arena. I was expect there to be a line up to the far doors going into Union Station (if you've been to the ACC you may know what I'm talkin about) so needless to say I was elated to see that our timing was just right.

 

- I was surprised by the amount of women and kids at the show. There had to be a 1:4 ratio going on there for the chicks and a 1:5 ratio for kids. Like kid kids, 6-12 kids, it was crazy. And they were foul mouthed!

 

- Man, I should have expected it, but some wrestling fans aren't really the most... PC... of all people. I love the word "Fag" and "Faggot", if used properly it's hilarious, but one guy just celebrated it.

 

- Fucking lights. For the entire night I had two lights in my eyes, which, added to a small migrane, made the experience kinda torturous. Yes WWE, you actually had a full house and you're proud, still... dim the lights for us in the balcony, k?

[Guest Loss]

I too thought Jericho/Benoit was better than I expected it to be. The matwork was tremendous. I thought the commercial break was poorly timed. The right time to do a commercial break is after a big spot or shift in direction in the match. The wrong time to do a commercial break is after a parity sequence. We came back from the break and Benoit was controlling Jericho. To their credit, they did show how he took control, but I think that was a vital part of the match and they should have taken a break after that sequence instead of before it.

 

The match seemed like it was the first 12 minutes of a match intended to go 20-25 minutes. The build was strong, but the finish did come out of nowhere. The match would have benefitted from more time.

 

I would agree that *** sounds about right.

 

The match was also wrestled like it was part of a larger body of matches. If this was intended to be the first match of a series, it was a tremendous start and laid the groundwork for a feud quite well. I thought the announcing was horrid -- Lawler seemed to forget that the two had ever faced each other, instead pointing out that they teamed up all the time. The two really should have had a classic rivalry by now, and it's never really panned out, and it doesn't look like the announcers are going to help them in that regard. Jim Ross seemed flustered here and they kept commenting on how "even" the match was when the work was giving them opportunity to say plenty of other, more candid things. I don't think the climate is right at the moment for Benoit/Jericho to get the respect it deserves.

 

There was some strong learned psychology here with the counters they both busted out -- very simple moves, but very strategic. Benoit's blocking of the Walls was outstanding, as were Jericho's various counters to the Crossface.

 

The main flaw I saw in the match was that the double-arm superplex spot took far too long to set up. I thought the move was there just to show Jericho could do it more than anything, although they did at least try to fill that space with "stuff" -- there was struggle and fighting, but there was no back work or mid-range offense to fill the gap between the matwork and this spot. I credit that to them being hampered by the limits of television.

 

If they have a second match, there are tremendous opportunities to build off of what was established here. Let's hope Benoit and Jericho not only go in that direction, but that Ross and Lawler get a clue about how to call the match.

[bob_barron 0]

Maybe that was because we didn't wait in line AT ALL to get into the ACC. Which was almost the biggest joy of the night as for _every_ show we've gone to we had to wait an ungodly amount of time for the doors to open and to get into the arena. I was expect there to be a line up to the far doors going into Union Station (if you've been to the ACC you may know what I'm talkin about) so needless to say I was elated to see that our timing was just right.

 

I didn't notice any at all Rudo- the crowd seemed very upscale and fun. I also didn't have to wait in line at all to get in. I was very happy about that.

 

- I was surprised by the amount of women and kids at the show. There had to be a 1:4 ratio going on there for the chicks and a 1:5 ratio for kids. Like kid kids, 6-12 kids, it was crazy. And they were foul mouthed!

 

There were a bunch of kids near me and I could tell it was their first wrestling show since they were so into booing the heels. I don't think Steven Richards knew he had kid fans that hated him that much. They were funny but like a lot of very loud wrestling fans- they cooled off by RAW

 

Man, I should have expected it, but some wrestling fans aren't really the most... PC... of all people. I love the word "Fag" and "Faggot", if used properly it's hilarious, but one guy just celebrated it.

 

I yelled 'The bitch deserved it' regarding Lita's miscarriage which got me lots of dirty looks. I then got into a couple of arguments over whether it was Snitsky's fault. I also of course yelled my numerous horrible insults at HBK. The girl in front of me who "is going to marry him" didn't like that.

[bob_barron 0]

I too thought Jericho/Benoit was better than I expected it to be. The matwork was tremendous. I thought the commercial break was poorly timed. The right time to do a commercial break is after a big spot or shift in direction in the match. The wrong time to do a commercial break is after a parity sequence. We came back from the break and Benoit was controlling Jericho. To their credit, they did show how he took control, but I think that was a vital part of the match and they should have taken a break after that sequence instead of before it.

 

I thought they went to break when Benoit chucked him outside- I couldn't tell when they went to break but I do remember then slowing it down a bit. Also Benoit teased doing the tope like 4 times- I really wanted to see him bust it out.

 

The match seemed like it was the first 12 minutes of a match intended to go 20-25 minutes. The build was strong, but the finish did come out of nowhere. The match would have benefitted from more time.

 

I was feeling the mat wrestling and for a second I thought this was going to go really long...and then it just ended.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It would have been cool if it followed the Michinoku Pro Mid-90's style of working a match with the mat work first, then the striking, then the high spots, then the power moves and a combination of the previous 3 to finish it up. Again, that would have required more time. The quick finish is probably why they did all the mat work, but I haven't seen a quick, unexpected, finished that I've liked so I don't know why that would be the objective. And this was labelled as the "main event" (which is retarded because it was the second last match, they barely get away with saying "main event" when it's 10:00, if at all, so that didn't make any sense), so it should have actually had a build to the finish.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The absolute highlight for me, fan-wise, was the guys dressed-up like Hassan.

[bob_barron 0]

Those guys were hilarious- and got so much heat.

 

I chanted 'The Koran', 'Ramadan' and 'Al Queada' at Hussein and Davari. I was surprised they got instant heel heat

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I don't want to talk about it.

[Guest Loss]

Please explain why HHH is so popular in Canada.

 

kthxbi

[bob_barron 0]

Because he's a big star and Toronto likes the big stars.

 

I didn't think he was that popular personally

[Guest Loss]

His reaction came off enormous on TV. He's typically gotten the babyface pop on Canadian shows in the past.

[bob_barron 0]

I think it's just cause he's a big star. I don't think his pop was bigger then Batista's, Jericho's or Benoit's though

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

From where I was sitting HHH got a 60/40 heel/face reaction.

[Naked Snake 0]

Toronto's fans are weird. Nonetheless I had a good time at the show. I was the only guy openly cheering for Shawn Michaels I think. Trish sold the chokeslam like gold. There were a lot of marks at this show, but it shows what angles are working and which aren't when you observe them from a different perspective. Anyway the highlight of the night was crashing Chris Jericho's party at a club called Hotel in downtown Toronto. Edge, Maven, Coachman, Jericho, Orton, and Hurricane were all there, apparently breaking kayfabe (well not really).

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Anybody know anything about the press conference they announced with Austin? I don't want to overanalyze things but I find it kind of odd (or typical) that Triple H would pick this night to talk about how he's beaten everybody and Austin has to be the first name on that list of people.

 

Also, I think since Raw is on a delay, they should have edited out the part where Snitsky could be heard asking Kane if he was alright.

[claydude14 0]

Claydude, was that you doing the "C'MON REF!!!" stuff? Seriously, that was hilarious.

Yea, that's my thang. My friend would usually chime in "WHATS THAT REF DOING?!" and then some little kid in front of us would get into it too.

[Precious Roy 0]

Also Benoit teased doing the tope like 4 times- I really wanted to see him bust it out.

 

I thought for sure it was coming when Jericho was out on the floor by the tables. Benoit was in stance for it and it almost looked to me like the ref nixed it. But if they're planning a series that's a great thing to build on.

 

I agree with everything said about the match, except for it exceeding expectations, as I was let down that it wasn't on last and didn't get more time. And as crisp as the work was, the finish was kind of a let down, like someone said they looked on the verge of turning it up and then it was over. If they don't build off it it ends up just looking like a flukey pin for Jericho.

 

Oh yeah, and the timing on the commerical breaks sucked, and hurt the match. The commercial break right at the start of HBK-Christian sucked too, and dragged down that match for me too.

[Guest The Mandingo Warrior]

At the live show they showed an amazing "Wrestlemania 21 promo" which was an awesome collection of classic wrestlemania moments. They also had a really cool Chris Benoit tribute video. Not sure if either of these made the television show though.. I'd love to see these again.

 

-MW