Lennox Lewis Coming Out Of Retirement...

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Lewis is, was, and always will be known as the guy who quit rather than give Klitschko the rematch he deserved.

Actually, Lewis will probably be looked on rather favorably by future generations, whereas at this rate, Vitali will probably be known as the guy who took out some out-of-shape fighters (Johnson, Sanders, etc.) except the one that truly mattered (Lewis).

The only reason Vitali didn't take Lewis out was because Lewis didn't have the balls to give him the rematch he deserved. And while Lewis will be looked favorably upon by future generations, he'll always have the cloud hanging over his head of having quit rather than facing Vitali again.

 

As for:

 

but the bottom line is that he lost due to a nasty cut and deserved to lose that match.

 

Yeah, he should have been stopped, but I see the way the fight ended as Vitali losing rather than Lewis winning. Vitali was way ahead on points at the time the fight was called off, and, if not for the cuts, Vitali would almost assuredly have beaten Lewis that night. And if that had happened, you can bet that Lewis would have stuck around until he got the World Title back.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

but the bottom line is that he lost due to a nasty cut and deserved to lose that match.

 

Yeah, he should have been stopped, but I see the way the fight ended as Vitali losing rather than Lewis winning. Vitali was way ahead on points at the time the fight was called off, and, if not for the cuts, Vitali would almost assuredly have beaten Lewis that night. And if that had happened, you can bet that Lewis would have stuck around until he got the World Title back.

So what you're saying is that he'd NEVER retire then

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

but the bottom line is that he lost due to a nasty cut and deserved to lose that match.

 

Yeah, he should have been stopped, but I see the way the fight ended as Vitali losing rather than Lewis winning. Vitali was way ahead on points at the time the fight was called off, and, if not for the cuts, Vitali would almost assuredly have beaten Lewis that night. And if that had happened, you can bet that Lewis would have stuck around until he got the World Title back.

So what you're saying is that he'd NEVER retire then

He'd have won the World Title eventually, even if not by totally honest means. Lewis was probably the most credible World Champion when he retired, and as such meant $$$ at the box office, and someone like that doesn't go without a title for long, even if he doesn't have to really earn it

[Guest Astro]

Did that Foreman/Holmes fight ever happen (Like in the last 2 years?)

[Lei Tong 0]

Vitali was not "way ahead" on points. He was up 2 points on every judge's scorecard, with Lennox having won the last two rounds on everyone's card. And as it was, had the fight continued, Lewis was just as likely (if not more) to take out Vitali, who was losing steam already and getting rocked by a Lewis coming back. Lennox was rocking him with uppercuts and peppring his face with jabs during the 5th & 6th rounds. Let's not forget that the last time Vitali faced adversity, he quit on his stool while massively up on points vs. Chris Byrd.

 

The fact is, Vitali got his chance against the most out-of-shape version of Lennox Lewis (even moreso than when he was KO'ed by McCall & Rahman), and couldn't pull out a win. And in a sport where world champs have been known to let themselves get beat down and embarassed rather than retire, Lennox surely went out a lot better than the likes of Ali, Holmes, Leonard, etc.

[NoCalMike 0]

Vitali was not "way ahead" on points. He was up 2 points on every judge's scorecard, with Lennox having won the last two rounds on everyone's card. And as it was, had the fight continued, Lewis was just as likely (if not more) to take out Vitali, who was losing steam already and getting rocked by a Lewis coming back. Lennox was rocking him with uppercuts and peppring his face with jabs during the 5th & 6th rounds. Let's not forget that the last time Vitali faced adversity, he quit on his stool while massively up on points vs. Chris Byrd.

 

The fact is, Vitali got his chance against the most out-of-shape version of Lennox Lewis (even moreso than when he was KO'ed by McCall & Rahman), and couldn't pull out a win. And in a sport where world champs have been known to let themselves get beat down and embarassed rather than retire, Lennox surely went out a lot better than the likes of Ali, Holmes, Leonard, etc.

Lennox Lewis being out of shape is his own fault, and speaks at length of the kind of fighter he is.

 

Vitali was walking through Lewis's best shots. He was still coming forward and stalking Lewis. Lewis's best shots of the fight is when he was holding Vitali against the ropes, and repeatidly hitting him in the side/body, which by the way is illegal. Lewis was dead tired, and was leaning all over Vitali to support his body by the last couple of rounds. Vitali was on his way to winning the fight, and Lewis was fortunate the thumb of his boxing club, ripped a chunk of flesh out of Vitali's face.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If Vitali was so inferior to Lewis, why did Lewis conveniently choose to retire before there was a rematch between the two ? There was enough clamor for a rematch that Lewis would have made a decent payoff for the fight. And yet Lewis decided not to take a fight that you imply he would have easily won. If Lewis was as confident of beating Vitali as you are, he would have taken one last payoff before retiring. Could Lewis have beaten Vitali convincingly in a rematch ? You seem to think so, but Lewis evidently didn't.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

So it was pure coincidence he decided to retire right after he barely got past Vitali Klitschko ? If Lewis had any kind of manhood about him, he would have wanted an immediate rematch against Klitschko, if only to prove that he really was the best heavyweight in the world. The ironic thing is that Lewis did to Klitschko the same thing that Riddick Bowe did to Lewis, that being chicken out of a fight that he should have taken. Lewis was the first in line to call Bowe a coward for ducking him, and it's the same thing here. Lewis was too scared to take on someone he didn't think he could beat, and so refused to fight, instead deciding to 'retire on top'. Nobody retiring like that retires 'on top'. Lewis is, was, and always will be known as the guy who quit rather than give Klitschko the rematch he deserved.

 

This line of reasoning is silly. If Lewis knew he was going to get creamed by Klitschko in the re-match, why the heck should he take a fight solely to get his head knocked off? Many fighters walk around today, if they're lucky to be walking, with mental and physical deficiencies due to the beatings they've absorbed as fighters. In many cases, it was because they stuck around long after their primes. I'd rather see a fighter retire a fight too early rather than a fight too late.

 

Thats the thing with me. Stop calling yourself a great. i don't remember many other greats that ducked a guy that was pummeling him and if it had made it to the card, would have beaten him. He retired with the belt so you can say that he is one of the few that did it and now I am supposed to say how GREAT he is? What the fuck ever.

 

I think Lewis deserves to rate among the great heavyweights myself. He beat Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Tommy Morrison, Razor Ruddock, Hasim Rahman, David Tua, Vitali Klitschko, Andrew Golota, Michael Grant, Oliver McCall, and Frank Bruno. Other than Riddick Bowe, who ducked him, and George Foreman, who never took a fight he couldn't win after 1994, there isn't really a name heavyweight that Lewis did not defeat in our era. The fighters Lewis defeated as champion are as good a group as nearly any heavyweight champion has defeated, with the exception of Muhammad Ali.

[Ripper 0]

Because Lewis has a weak chin and Vitali has power and a nice jab. thats why Lewis wouldn't fight him.

 

 

And if a fighter knocks a guy down 6 times over the first six rounds and get caught with a punch and it gives him a horrific cut, does he "deserve" to lose the fight? While the fight might end, you would be hard pressed to find a fighting fan that says he LOST.

 

And I am tired of everyone calling Vitali forfiting that match "adversity". He couldn't lift his fucking arm. What the hell was he supposed to do. He was slaughtering Byrd, but why go out there and fight without the ability to guard your head and risk serious injury in a young career? That ridiculous.

 

Lewis won those last two rounds with the punch punch hold technique. he was dead tired.

[Lei Tong 0]

- Yes, it is Lennox's fault he didn't come into the fight in the best shape. But guess what? He hung on and won regardless.

 

- If Lewis was so dead tired, why was he outlanding Vitali the last two rounds? If Vitali was on his way to winning the fight, why did Lewis unanimously win the last two rounds on everybody's cards? Something tells me Vitali felt those uppercuts. Also, I didn't see any ghosts floating around the ring making Vitali's cut worse; must've been Lewis.

 

- I also never said Lewis would definitely beat Klitshcko in a rematch. For all I know, that last performance could've been indictive of how Lennox would've performed from then on had he not retired. What I AM saying is that at each fighter's peak, I know Lennox is a better fighter than Vitali.

 

- Hasim Rahman has a good jab and easily as much one-punch power as Vitali. What's your point?

 

- What about a fighter throughly outboxing another for 10+ rounds only to get caught with an errant haymaker and get knocked out? Outside of cheating (like Oquendo-level rabbit punching), a win's a win.

 

- (THanks to Rubio for this point)Evander Holyfield got the same exact injury against Chris Byrd that Vitali did, yet continued on in a fight he had NO HOPE of winning. All Vitali had to was stay upright for three rounds. Hell, he could've ran from the freatherfisted Byrd, taken some point deductions for his actions and STILL won. But as it is, Byrd's elusiveness caused Vitali to injure himself, and Vitali quit on his stoll with an injury that others have fought through.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Klitschko was bleeding like a stuck pig. The referee made the right call. Had he not gotten cut, Vitaly probably would've won. I think that's about as concise as one can make the matchup.

[Ripper 0]

If Lewis was so dead tired, why was he outlanding Vitali the last two rounds? If Vitali was on his way to winning the fight, why did Lewis unanimously win the last two rounds on everybody's cards? Something tells me Vitali felt those uppercuts. Also, I didn't see any ghosts floating around the ring making Vitali's cut worse; must've been Lewis.

 

Because Lewis was dictating the pace. He was in a punch/punch/hold pattern and slowing the bout down and it was obvious that he was winning those two rounds because of it. He was using a method to outscore Vitali, and yeah, it was smart, but he was also burnt. Vitali was constantly trying to make space so that he could connect with his power shots, but Lewis just kept stepping back into it, upper cut/body shot hold. VERY smart boxing from a VERY smart boxer but I think you would be hard pressed to say that this is a sign of Lewis starting to take over the match. he slowed it down basically, and Vitali was obviously the man with more energy.

 

Hasim Rahman has a good jab and easily as much one-punch power as Vitali. What's your point

 

Oh I am sorry, I meant Vitali is a GOOD BOXER with a good jab and one-punch power. Lewis had no reason to fear Rahman because he was dominating that fight till he got cocky and caught with that KO punch. With Vitali he KNEW he was in trouble and thats why he ducked the guy.

 

What about a fighter throughly outboxing another for 10+ rounds only to get caught with an errant haymaker and get knocked out? Outside of cheating (like Oquendo-level rabbit punching), a win's a win.

 

Thats a completely different circumstance. Its seemed as though you were suggesting that Lewis was the better fight of the two that night because he got the win, and I was saying how winning due to other circumstances doesn't make you the better fighter that night, it makes you the more fortunate fighter.

 

- (THanks to Rubio for this point)Evander Holyfield got the same exact injury against Chris Byrd that Vitali did, yet continued on in a fight he had NO HOPE of winning. All Vitali had to was stay upright for three rounds. Hell, he could've ran from the freatherfisted Byrd, taken some point deductions for his actions and STILL won. But as it is, Byrd's elusiveness caused Vitali to injure himself, and Vitali quit on his stoll with an injury that others have fought through.

 

Thats not true, because though they had the same injury in name, Vitali's was preventing him from getting a arm up. basically the rest of the fight would have been Byrd teeing off on his head. Featherfisted or not, you don't take that chance. A broken hand, sure you lay off with the hand, but if you are having trouble getting your arm up to guard your head, you are in trouble. Thats not cowering to adversity. that common sense.

 

Klitschko was bleeding like a stuck pig. The referee made the right call. Had he not gotten cut, Vitaly probably would've won. I think that's about as concise as one can make the matchup.

 

Exactly. And no clearer reason for why there should be a rematch.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

I think Lewis deserves to rate among the great heavyweights myself. He beat Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Tommy Morrison, Razor Ruddock, Hasim Rahman, David Tua, Vitali Klitschko, Andrew Golota, Michael Grant, Oliver McCall, and Frank Bruno. Other than Riddick Bowe, who ducked him, and George Foreman, who never took a fight he couldn't win after 1994, there isn't really a name heavyweight that Lewis did not defeat in our era. The fighters Lewis defeated as champion are as good a group as nearly any heavyweight champion has defeated, with the exception of Muhammad Ali.

Tyson and Holyfield were both WELL past their primes when Lewis beat them.

 

Tommy Morrison? Joke

 

Razor Ruddock? Ditto

 

Hasim Rahman was a one punch bum who got lucky once.

 

David Tua showed promise early in his career, now? Joke.

 

Andrew Golota? Captain Nut Punch/Horrendous fighter.

 

Frank Bruno? Just an awful fighter.

 

 

 

I like Lewis and think that he's a pretty good fighter, but that list of opponents sort of weakens him in my eyes. What a horrible bunch of fighters. I personally think that Tyson and Holyfield, in their primes, would have destroyed Lewis. Remember when people were arguing that Tyson might have beaten Ali (not that I think that btw)? Ali would have toyed with Lewis...

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I think Lewis deserves to rate among the great heavyweights myself.  He beat Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Tommy Morrison, Razor Ruddock, Hasim Rahman, David Tua, Vitali Klitschko, Andrew Golota, Michael Grant, Oliver McCall, and Frank Bruno.  Other than Riddick Bowe, who ducked him, and George Foreman, who never took a fight he couldn't win after 1994, there isn't really a name heavyweight that Lewis did not defeat in our era.  The fighters Lewis defeated as champion are as good a group as nearly any heavyweight champion has defeated, with the exception of Muhammad Ali.

Tyson and Holyfield were both WELL past their primes when Lewis beat them.

 

Tommy Morrison? Joke

 

Razor Ruddock? Ditto

 

Hasim Rahman was a one punch bum who got lucky once.

 

David Tua showed promise early in his career, now? Joke.

 

Andrew Golota? Captain Nut Punch/Horrendous fighter.

 

Frank Bruno? Just an awful fighter.

 

 

 

I like Lewis and think that he's a pretty good fighter, but that list of opponents sort of weakens him in my eyes. What a horrible bunch of fighters. I personally think that Tyson and Holyfield, in their primes, would have destroyed Lewis. Remember when people were arguing that Tyson might have beaten Ali (not that I think that btw)? Ali would have toyed with Lewis...

First off, I think Lewis would give any heavyweight trouble, because of his unique size and ability. I don't know if Lewis could have beaten Ali (I doubt it), but he could've stood there and jabbed, and made a go of it for 12 rounds.

 

As for Tyson, Lewis is actually a year older.

 

For the point that Lewis didn't beat great fighters, he beat the best available. Besides, you can make a similar point about MANY heavyweights in history. Who did Jack Dempsey ever beat? Either untalented palookas, or blown up light heavyweights. Other than Ali, Joe Frazier doesn't have any other really impressive wins on his resume. The only HOFer Sonny Liston beat was Floyd Patterson. Other than a washed-up Jim Jefferies, Jack Johnson never really defended the title against anyone in his class.

 

For the fighters you mentioned, you fail to give them due credit. Razor Ruddock was a very dangerous fighter at the time, having taken Mike Tyson the distance when Tyson was still a good fighter. Morrison was a great fighter in his day. Rahman has more on his resume than just the Lewis KO. Tua knocked out John Ruiz in 19 seconds, and had only a loss to Ike Ibeabuchi on his record at the time of the fight. Lewis's fight against Golota was Golota's first bout since the Bowe fights.

 

And even that's far from a comprehensive list of Lewis' opponents. Even if they did have problems, you can't hold it AGAINST Lewis for defeating them.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

I by no means meant my post to be stating that I don't think that Lewis is a good fighter. I also agree that he has a rather unique combination of size and ability. But I just think that he isn't worthy of any kind of "best ever" talk. As far as the Tyson/Lewis age thing, age is certainly no indication of being in prime shape. Tyson peaked at a fairly young age, Lewis peaked a bit older. They just happened to fight when Lewis was at the top of his game and Tyson was, in my opinion, a shell of his former self. I contend that a prime Tyson treats a prime Lewis like prime rib.

[Ripper 0]

I am just not prepared to call any fighter a "great" that ducks a fighter he knows can beat him in his prime. Lewis was not outside his prime and he knows that Vitali stood a chance. But he was open to fighting Tyson again. I WONDER why.

 

I am not saying that Vitali would have won in a rematch. Who knows. I am just saying, Lewis ducked him because he was/is a threat. That "I have nothing to prove...I beat him." crap....comeon he knows better than that.

[Lei Tong 0]

- Regardless of Vitali having more energy, there didn't seem to be any indication that he was going to suddenly figure out how to get Lennox off of him. Lennox had already had started turning the fight around, and was the one hurting Vitali as the fight went on.

 

- Okay, I was being kind, but let's face it: The things Vitali has going for him are his size, decent legs for a big man, a decent beard, and good straight right. And outside of that right hand, his boxing skills can go anywhere from basic to downright sloppy. Vitali isn't even 1/10th the boxer his brother is Rahman may not be the most skilled boxer ever, but he's closer to the definition of a "good boxer" than Vitali is.

 

Not only that, Vitali doesn't have the one-punch power of Hasim. No doubt Vitali can hit hard, but you'll never see him throw out a KO shot like Lewis, Tua, or Rahman.

 

- How exactly is cutting a guy with paper skin open and worsening the cut WITH PUNCHES any more fortunate than landing a wild haymaker on a much better fighter?

 

- Same injury, different fighters. That's all there is to it. There was virtually no difference between what happened to Holyfield's shoulder & Vitali's. Evander later said that he wasn't sure if he could even lift move his arm, yet went out there and tried to regardless. The only difference between these two situations is that Evander continued to fight on in a fight he had no chance of winning (as is his style, while Vitali chose to accept defeat.

 

- Lewis' prime was circa '97, when he still had all his physical tools to compliment his boxing skills. And a prime Lewis would STILL defeat a prime Tyson. Put perfectly:

 

"The late 80's version of Tyson would never have beaten the best Lewis. Douglas was a very poor mans Lewis and it was shown pretty well, how you handle the myth of Mike Tyson...

 

...At least Douglas and Lewis had very similar styles. They both lived off their jab, used their legs, used the uppercuts, right hands, knew how to clinch and were both much bigger and stronger then Tyson." -Tam-Tam

 

- Well, I guess a good amount of boxers in the IBHOF aren't actually "greats," as many of them were perceived to have ducked fighters at one point or another.

 

Did Lennox talk too much shit after the fact? Yes. Did he have anything to gain by beating Vitali again? No. Was it smart of him to retire than stay on too long and possibly lose to a guy like Vitali? Probably.

[caboose 0]

UPDATE...

 

 

From: Sky Sports.com

 

LENNOX IS SCARED OF ME, SAYS KLITSCHKO

Saturday 19th February 2005

 

RINGSIDE

On Sky Sports

 

Vitali Klitschko has accused Lennox Lewis of running scared.

 

The world heavyweight champion says the 34-year-old Briton retired from the sport in February 2004 to avoid a rematch with him - and is still too scared to face him today.

 

Lewis was reported to be considering a comeback a month ago but has since quashed the rumours.

 

And according to Klitschko, it was because he does not want to face the 6ft ½ in WBC champion for a second time after the Ukrainian was leading their first meeting before it he was stopped by a cut.

 

"Lennox Lewis took retirement because he is afraid," Klitschko told Ringside. "He was a afraid of a second match.

 

"This fight is still very interersting for all boxing fans around the world.

 

"I don't need Lennox Lewis. Lennox Lewis needs me because Lennox needs to show everybody that he is stronger than me because everyone is doubting it."

 

Klitschko will make the second defence of his WBC title against Hasim Rahman in April, who of course became only the second man to beat Lewis when he took his undisputed heavyweight title with a fifth-round knockout back in 2001.

 

Lewis avenged the defeat seven months later, but the current champion says he will take less than the four rounds the Briton needed to beat him.

 

And he is adamant that as long as he remains the heavyweight champion of the world, Lewis will not want a rematch.

 

"Lennox is hoping somebody beats me and the fight will not be so inetresting," he said. "But I am the goal for everyone, the heavyweight champion of the world, and everbody wants to beat me. I will try and keep this title for a long time.

 

"I don't want to make the same mistake as Lennox Lewis, he under-estimated Hasim. He didn't prepare it properly but I will be 100 per cent prepared and will show that by beating Rahman faster than he did."

 

Klitschko is just stating what a lot of people think and what many of us have posted in the thread already. Seems to me like Klitschko is trying to goad Lewis back into the ring.

 

It's like something out of Rocky...