Suikoden IV

[Special K 0]

I just rented this game and have played it to about the 12 hour mark.

 

It's very similar to the first two in terms of gameplay. Quick battles, decent story, the only thing is having voice acting makes the mute main character even more auspicious, like you're a damn ghost.

 

The graphics are really gorgeous. I don't really like the style of the character models, but they animate really well, and the backgrounds and water graphics are lovely.

 

Good to see the Suikoden series returning to its roots. Sometimes you just want a fun, simple RPG that's well polished. Why else would people be bidding $80 for Suikoden II? (which I own, huzzah!)

[Guest Cerebus]

I take it you didn't like III?

 

I'm going to have to buy this after I beat FFX-2, I'm a huge Suikoden fan but I never play 2 rpgs at the same time.

[Guest Smues]

Got it when it came out, haven't had much time to play it. Played about 45 minutes and liked what I saw so far. I've heard the enemy encounter rate is annoyingly high though.

[Special K 0]

The enemy encounter rate IS high, however

1) The loading times aren't long

2) The battles are usually very quick, much like the first 2 suikodens

 

And I thought Suikoden III was all right. However, Suikoden I was a very fun little game that had the benefit of being the first really good PS RPG, and was the infancy of the series, and Suikoden II is a masterpiece.

 

Suikoden III had an engaging story (slightly more engaging if you read up on the suikogaidens) and the cool skill system, but the battles were too long, and the area of effect thing for spells is retarded if you can't specifically control where your people are. Made the fire rune pathetic and the lightning rune godly. And when you choose one of the cooler characters (Chris or Geddoe) to be your hero and you realize that little bitch kid is SUPPOSED to be the hero, it sort of irks.

[The Man in Blak 0]

Even though I own all of the other entries in the series, I wanted to rent it before I bought it, just because I got burned by coughing up retail price for Suikoden III when it came out.

 

This game's been getting hammered in the press, though. GameRankings had an average rating of 65% or so for it when I looked at it a couple of days ago.

[Ced 0]

I liked what I saw so far (about 2 hours in) and I'll pick it up when a used copy becomes available.

 

Random thoughts:

 

I have a major gripe with the "run" animation which makes your character move about like he's injected himself with pure caffeine.

 

I wish death to Chiepoo for opening his mouth.

 

Damn, Snowe is such a ginormous pussy.

 

I love the paranoid eyes your character gets when you get his and Snowe's battle victory animation.

 

The more I played the game to more I felt like finding a copy of Pirates for the Sega Genesis.

[AndrewTS 0]

The demo I played certainly doesn't do it any favors. Awful loading times and the same-ol, same-ol, garden-variety turn-based gameplay made me opt to skip.

 

The loading times likely were fixed up to some extent, since the game was probably far from finished at the time, though.

[Youth N Asia 0]

I loved the first two games, but just have no interest in III or IV. I might try and pick them up cheap one day

[Guest Cerebus]

I actually picked Chris as my Flame Champion because she was the cooler character, but you're right. Hugo is the typical, Kid-With-A-Mission RPG hero, while Chris and Geddoe were much more engaging and had a lot more depth.

[Special K 0]

Yeah I picked Chris. She was cool. The one thing they should have kept was the hero with some personality.

 

Loading times have been fixed. Unless you're REALLY impatient.

 

Don't really know why it's getting unfavorable reviews. People seemed to cream over Shining Force GBA for being a fun, uncomplicated RPG. This is the same, except it's great eye candy too. Maybe it turns to shit late in the game, but I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt.

 

The only complaints I've heard are:

 

it's unoriginal

ship travel's a pain

 

As to unoriginality, I will tell you that the games pretty much unanimously loved and played over and over by console RPGers are Final Fantasy 3/VI, Chrono Trigger, Suikoden II, Castlevania:SOTN and Dragon Quest VI. These games are not innovative, they are refined and well-executed RPGs. People in general pay way too much much attention to innovation. You know waht Castlevania: SOTN was? Metroid with swords. It's also fucking fantastic. Suikoden II is pretty much Suikoden I with a better story and Iron Chef. It rules most flashy RPGs of today though. There's a reason people emulate. No one seems to know how to make a decent side-scroller anymore.

Of course there are cult hits like Valkyrie Profile, Disgaea (maybe not a cult fave that one, twas a pretty big hit) and Ogre Battle.

 

As to the ship sailing, it's taken a max half hour out of the 10 hours I've played. There are many encounters, but they are usually very short. The stupid fucking idiot at insidepulse couldn't figure out that the R1 button that makes you go twice as fast on land also makes you go twice as fast on the sea.

[Lightning Flik 0]

I think the problem that people have with Suikoden IV is that they can't understand that sometimes simple but refined equates to better game.

 

I've read many of the reviews and they are absolutely torching this one on the aspect that people don't know how to play simple games anymore. As you said Special K, that idiot at insidepulse didn't think "hey, ya know since you can use R1 to go faster on land, it obviously should work at sea." And that idiocy isn't alone.

 

Sometimes, I think we RPGamers expect too much "newness" to appreciate the ol' fashioned stuff that makes RPGs what they became.

[AndrewTS 0]

As to unoriginality, I will tell you that the games pretty much unanimously loved and played over and over by console RPGers are Final Fantasy 3/VI, Chrono Trigger, Suikoden II, Castlevania:SOTN and Dragon Quest VI. These games are not innovative, they are refined and well-executed RPGs. People in general pay way too much much attention to innovation. You know waht Castlevania: SOTN was? Metroid with swords. It's also fucking fantastic. Suikoden II is pretty much Suikoden I with a better story and Iron Chef. It rules most flashy RPGs of today though. There's a reason people emulate. No one seems to know how to make a decent side-scroller anymore.

 

Actually, for their times, FFVI and CT were innovative, CT more so (tons of endings, double and triple techs, New Game +, time travel as a major element of both the story and gameplay). I honestly can't tell you *why* they play them over and over, because I was using my Crono avatar long after I'd seen and done everything in the game and hence had no reason to play it again, and despite its many, *MANY* secrets, FFVI gets old. However, almost everything done in FFVI has been done over and over in RPGs today, so I fail to see the appeal. CT still retains some uniqueness, though. The appeal of these RPGs today, to me, is mainly nostalgia.

 

SotN is much more than Metroid with Swords. It's Metroid + Castlevania; two of the most beloved franchises known to gamers, blended almost perfectly with plenty of unique qualities all its own. Both CV and Metroid hadn't been revived at that point on any of the consoles so there was a demand by plenty of gamers for one or the other. Also, it came out after Super Metroid was already a beloved classic and is better than any 2D Metroid game made since its release. Zero Mission and Fusion were both far inferior games, adding nothing important to the series and actually taking steps back (no grapple beam or X-Ray scope? A computer telling me where to go every step of the way?). While in Zero Mission's case, a "step back" was the main point of doing the game, it's a short, easy, and fairly mundane trip. It's odd that the NES Classics Metroid outsold Zero Mission, despite the fact that Metroid 1 is included as an unlockable bonus in ZM.

 

Honestly, how many people Stateside have played Dragon Quest VI and Suikoden II? The former is an import in Japanese and the latter is so damn hard to find it's statistically impossible for many people to have played it unless they've been playing pirate/emulated versions.

 

There's a difference between games being "simple" and "practically braindead." The overly-simplistic menu-based gameplay, same damn battle systems, and cliche-ridden stories found in most modern RPGs may be fine for kids, but bore me to death.

 

EDIT: This isn't to say I think Suikoden IV deserves a bad rating. It just means its main sin is that it hardly does anything gameplay-wise to stand out from the pack of RPGs that clutter the lower end of the bell curve. Considering that few games in its own genre attempt to bring anything new or interesting to the table gameplay-wise, most of them have to be judged on the merits of story, plot-progression, etc. However, for those of us fed up with the genre's "conventions," it's the same game in a shiny new package.

[Special K 0]

I meant DQ IV (Dragon Warrior here) D'oh

Suikoden II may be hard to find, but almost everyone who has played it LOVES it.

 

I think the success of fairly complex games such as Disgaea and The original FFTactics show there's a market for fun and innovative systems, but you don't need it ALL the time.

 

Then there are technologically brilliant games like Xenosaga, which I thought had the most boring combat ever and spent too much damn time on its just OK story.

 

And I wasn't insulting Castlevania: SOTN by calling it Metroid with swords. I think it's the best example of its genre, and a near perfect game. In fact it pretty much IS perfect except for being too easy. (Oh and the gay pr0n voice acting) I was just commenting it wasn't some new shiny 'Ooh I can control Alucard with a microphone!' game, it was simply an excellent game in an established genre. And it rules.

[AndrewTS 0]

I think the success of fairly complex games such as Disgaea and The original FFTactics show there's a market for fun and innovative systems, but you don't need it ALL the time.

 

Then there are technologically brilliant games like Xenosaga, which I thought had the most boring combat ever and spent too much damn time on its just OK story.

 

And I wasn't insulting Castlevania: SOTN by calling it Metroid with swords. I think it's the best example of its genre, and a near perfect game. In fact it pretty much IS perfect except for being too easy. (Oh and the gay pr0n voice acting) I was just commenting it wasn't some new shiny 'Ooh I can control Alucard with a microphone!' game, it was simply an excellent game in an established genre. And it rules.

I honestly don't think the original Final Fantasy Tactics was hardly that innovative, but the Advance version attempts at "innovation," on the other hand, were horribly misguided and screwed everything up. FFTA's myriad problems with the battle system, the unforgivably slow gameplay and plot progression (on a portable game, that's unacceptable) make me completely incredulous of the high grades nearly everybody gave the game.

 

Good summary of Xenosaga.

 

My point is that SotN was innovative because it incorporated plenty of things into the genre that was rarely or never seen. However, I agree it isn't good *because* it has some minor innovations. Castlevania is a series of highly-polished platform games relying on skill, reflexes, timing, and a lot of patience. If Konami released another classic-style CV in SotN's place, it might still have been a damn fine game. Nothing was broke that needed fixing, escape for maybe the stiff controls.

 

However, RPGs have changed little, with mostly cosmetic changes. Ghouls n' Ghosts is a bonafide classic in the platform genre, but imagine if Capcom released a new game that played *exactly* like it with nothing added but cinemas, better graphics, with gameplay that was exactly the same. Would people still hold it in as high regard? Likely not.

 

(CronoT)Whoops...Capcom already did it with Viewtiful Joe (/CronoT)

 

And most of these copy-cat RPGs don't even require much skill, like GnGs sure as hell does. Battles are mainly filler in between cinemas in most RPGs, and if the battles are mindless and repetitive, that makes the game experience mighty dull to me.

 

I don't want to see more innovation in RPGs for the sake of innovation, but rather because most of the entries in the genre are so damn stone age that they *need* it, IMO.

 

Of course, this is all a part of my "hating to 'interact'" mentality. My demands are probably incompatible with the genre today, so that's why I mainly pass on the newer RPGs, rather than expect games I'm not going to get.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I'm currently playing through it now, right after I got Snowe to join my group. I don't imagine I've got too much left, which certainly makes for a shorter game than the previous two. The naval battles are extremely entertaining.

 

I'm going to have to buy this after I beat FFX-2, I'm a huge Suikoden fan but I never play 2 rpgs at the same time.

 

Me neither. I was 15 hours through Star Ocean 3, and I ditched it to play Suikoden IV instead. I'm happy with my decision.

[AndrewTS 0]

Off topic: anyone know of a US-released PS1 RPG that has, as a save icon, a glowing sword (looks like a lightsaber almost) but instead of text telling you what the game is in English, it's in Japanese?

 

I've had this icon on one of my PS1 memory cards for quite some time, and never deleted it, and it's bugging the hell out of me wondering what game it is from. I never owned any import PS1 games, so it probably is indeed a US game (unless I bought a used memory card that had it on it and I had forgotten).

 

My PS2 also thinks a nyko PS1 card I have is a PocketStation; heh.

[Star Ocean 3 0]

Me neither.  I was 15 hours through Star Ocean 3, and I ditched it to play Suikoden IV instead.  I'm happy with my decision.

You insist on antagonizing me.

[Special K 0]

Is Tri-Ace working on anything now? God I want Valkyrie Profile 2.

 

Maybe FFT isn't necessarily 'innovative', maybe way more in-depth is a better way to describe it. The level of character customization was crazy.

 

FFTA indeed sucked the meat missle. Tactics Ogre Advanced is a pretty fine fame, IMO, though I eventually tired of it. Maybe I'll finish it up. It's LONG.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Is Tri-Ace working on anything now? God I want Valkyrie Profile 2.

There has been rumors going around that one of the mysterious games for any gaming show that Tri-Ace is working on is in fact a sequel to VP2. Seriously though, no one knows what they are up to. Pretty off the radar lately, which usually means they've got something baked and ready to flaunt off at us.

 

Considering this game (Suik IV) is 100 years before the original Suik, can anyone tell me if the Soul Eater Rune makes an appearance. Nah, don't get into specifics, just a yes or no will suffice.

[Special K 0]

Yes, it does

 

I will say one thing I hope they don't stick with is the four person party. 6 people in the Suikoden games is much more appropriate, given the number of characters, and amount of combo attacks and runes. If you like a particular 2 person combo attack that doesn't involve the main character, you only have one slot left. Weak.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I didn't like the 4 person parties either.

[AndrewTS 0]

Maybe FFT isn't necessarily 'innovative', maybe way more in-depth is a better way to describe it. The level of character customization was crazy.

Okay, that's fair. How many RPGs, strat or otherwise, let you basically "recruit" a character from scratch, mix and match skills from tons of classes, capture and recruit enemies for use in battle, use animals' and their unique abilities, and determine how good a team's chemistry would be by their flippin' zodiac signs?

 

Sadly, I never finished FFT. My RPG memory card was accidentally crushed. I had tons of playtime invested into it, had unlocked all the classes and was close to getting Cloud.

 

And perhaps I'm wrong, but I would assume Secret of Mana probably should be added to your list. Thanks Square for giving us Evermore instead of SD4...

[Special K 0]

SD3 is the one they didn't bring over, it's great. Thank God for emulation.

 

I would say Lufia 2 also is an RPG that is very good that wasn't really innovative. They added some Zelda-ish puzzles is all. Also the Lunar series. The story, characters, and translation completely overshadow a dull combat system. If they could come up with some fun combat, Lunar 3 would be incredible.

[Star Ocean 3 0]

Is Tri-Ace working on anything now? God I want Valkyrie Profile 2.

http://www.rpgfan.com/previews/radiata-stories/index.html

[Lightning Flik 0]

SD3 is the one they didn't bring over, it's great. Thank God for emulation.

 

I would say Lufia 2 also is an RPG that is very good that wasn't really innovative. They added some Zelda-ish puzzles is all. Also the Lunar series. The story, characters, and translation completely overshadow a dull combat system. If they could come up with some fun combat, Lunar 3 would be incredible.

First of all, SD3 was actually hated by series creator and that's why it never game state side.

 

Also, there has been a Lufia 3 and Lufia 4. Sadly, they just borrow the Lufia title and have NO meaning to the timelines at all. It was really sad.

[Special K 0]

Either way, SD3 is a very good game. I've played through it. Considering that Square decided to unleash the horror of the awful SaGa Frontier series and Evermore (American developed), while Romancing SaGa 3 and SD3 went undeveloped is totally fucking bizzare.

 

I sort of switched topic in mid paragraph above. Lufia was a decent RPG, Lufia 2 ruled, and the subsequent Lufias ate it, I was mooning over the prospect of a LUNAR 3.

[Star Ocean 3 0]

SaGa Frontier is awesome.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Either way, SD3 is a very good game. I've played through it. Considering that Square decided to unleash the horror of the awful SaGa Frontier series and Evermore (American developed), while Romancing SaGa 3 and SD3 went undeveloped is totally fucking bizzare.

 

I sort of switched topic in mid paragraph above. Lufia was a decent RPG, Lufia 2 ruled, and the subsequent Lufias ate it, I was mooning over the prospect of a LUNAR 3.

SD3 while a good game, pretty much screwed up the Mana mythology that was created in the first two games. Which is a major reason why the creator didn't like the game at all. Then again, I also think it was an entirely different team working on the project.

 

The major bitchfest I have with Lufia is that Lufia: The Rise of the Sinistrals introduce a character at the beginning of the game that could've been used to create a damn well fine sequel, but no one even touches on it.

 

As for Lunar 3, there IS one that's been in the works, or so Woeful Delays tells us. But its like that Mother 3 project. On again, off again.

 

Saga Frontier wasn't bad, however I prefered Saga Frontier II.

 

Now then, back on topic, I hope that since the Soul Eater Rune can make an appearance during Suik IV, that Ted (I think that was his name) shows up, just cause it would make sense.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Now then, back on topic, I hope that since the Soul Eater Rune can make an appearance during Suik IV, that Ted (I think that was his name) shows up, just cause it would make sense

 

Ted is a Star of Destiny.

[Lightning Flik 0]

There is a God and he likes me.