U. Colorado Prof compares 9/11 victims to Nazis

[SuperJerk 0]

Does he have a right to say it?  Yes.

Should Colorado taxpayers be livid that their tax dollars are funding this blithering imbecile poisoning the minds of their sons and daughters?  Also, yes.

If we want kids to think for themselves, shouldn't they be exposed to both good and bad ideas?

Churchill has said that there was no organized Holocaust.

 

Don't you want teachers who don't teach outright lies?

 

And ask people like Michelle Malkin how willing to listen to opposing viewpoints college campuses (or is it campii?) are.

-=Mike

I think we should draw a distinction between what is taught in a class as fact, and what is written in an essay.

 

If a teacher is saying "the Holocaust never happened", then he is giving inaccurate information and I would question his professional competence.

 

If a teacher is giving his opinion in class, or in an essay, then I say its free speech.

 

The trick is that college students should be able to distinguish the difference. Free speech protects opinions, but we still have libel and slander laws to prevent people from saying things that can be factually disproven.

[Guest MikeSC]

Does he have a right to say it?  Yes.

Should Colorado taxpayers be livid that their tax dollars are funding this blithering imbecile poisoning the minds of their sons and daughters?  Also, yes.

If we want kids to think for themselves, shouldn't they be exposed to both good and bad ideas?

Churchill has said that there was no organized Holocaust.

 

Don't you want teachers who don't teach outright lies?

 

And ask people like Michelle Malkin how willing to listen to opposing viewpoints college campuses (or is it campii?) are.

-=Mike

I think we should draw a distinction between what is taught in a class as fact, and what is written in an essay.

 

If a teacher is saying "the Holocaust never happened", then he is giving inaccurate information and I would question his professional competence.

 

If a teacher is giving his opinion in class, or in an essay, then I say its free speech.

 

The trick is that college students should be able to distinguish the difference. Free speech protects opinions, but we still have libel and slander laws to prevent people from saying things that can be factually disproven.

When a prof is speaking in a class, the students will assume he's speaking the truth. If a prof was to say that blacks are genetically inferior --- but add the proviso that "it's only my opinion" --- wouldn't that be incredibly offensive? Would anybody have a problem dismissing the prof for saying it?

 

I do think a university has to protect its image if a prof writes something offensive.

-=Mike

[Guest SideFXs]

Yes, an attack on Civillians....sound familiar

 

Over 1 million CIVILIAN Chinese killed by the Japanese.

 

Projected American military loses to invade Japan 500,000, over a long period of time.

 

In the early 40's Hitler had designs to drop an atomic bomb on NYC, with a flying wing, long range bomber. Everything was in the works to do this, but the Germans did not have and effective uranium enrichment process.

 

And by the way, Japan would have had nuclear capability two weeks after August 6, 1945, as a German U-boat was in route to Japan. The German U-boat carried all the nuclear components to make a bomb and German scientists. It was still in route to Japan after the Japanese surrender, but was captured off the Labrador Coast.

 

For Ward Churchill to blame America for using atomic bombs to end the War is lunacy. He likes to state this fact, without stating why we did it, because he is Anti-American.

 

 

As usual the Liberals conveniently forget we needed to end the war with as few American casualties as possible. We needed to end the war as fast as possible, because we did not know the nuclear capabilities of our enemies.

 

I hate to think what would have happened had we engaged our enemy with a policy of fairness and equality, as Liberals love to argue.

[Jingus 0]

Don't bother arguing with that adam bomb guy, he apparently thinks it's too hot in this kitchen and hasn't posted in a week.

[SuperJerk 0]

If a prof was to say that blacks are genetically inferior --- but add the proviso that "it's only my opinion" --- wouldn't that be incredibly offensive? Would anybody have a problem dismissing the prof for saying it?

I don't remember seeing the words "only if its not offensive" in the First Amendment.

 

When a prof is speaking in a class, the students will assume he's speaking the truth.

 

So if a professor says "I think this book is really good" in a literature class, does he legally have to be right? Like I said, college age kids need to be exposed to different ideas, and hopefully they'll be smart enough to be able to figure out the difference between fact and opinion.

[Guest MikeSC]

If a prof was to say that blacks are genetically inferior --- but add the proviso that "it's only my opinion" --- wouldn't that be incredibly offensive? Would anybody have a problem dismissing the prof for saying it?

I don't remember seeing the words "only if its not offensive" in the First Amendment.

I don't see speech codes in the First Amendment, either --- but colleges have those all over the place.

 

Colleges have some quite strict speech codes. Hell, look at the heat Larry Summers got for stating that it might not be a bad idea to study if genetic differences might explain why women are at the top levels of science disciplines at lower levels than men are. And he said that to OTHER professors and listed it as one possible explanation.

 

He has yet to stop apologizing for it because of all of the complaints.

When a prof is speaking in a class, the students will assume he's speaking the truth.

So if a professor says "I think this book is really good" in a literature class, does he legally have to be right?

When you're a history prof and state that something is the case --- yes, you need to be accurate. Accuracy should be somewhat important to professors.

Like I said, college age kids need to be exposed to different ideas, and hopefully they'll be smart enough to be able to figure out the difference between fact and opinion.

Except they're not. If a college kid uses a racial epithet at another student --- what happens to him/her?

 

They're disciplined.

 

Why?

 

Do you oppose speech codes, too?

 

What if a professor of biology says he believes blacks to be inferior? Would you have no problem with that, even if he said "my opinion"?

-=Mike

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Been listening to talk radio lately, the conservative hosts are having a collective orgasm over this, saying this is how all non-conservatives REALLY think.

Heh. Flipped on Fox news last night, and they showed some dude at the rally for Churchill w/ a "Republicans for Churchill" sign.

[SuperJerk 0]

If a prof was to say that blacks are genetically inferior --- but add the proviso that "it's only my opinion" --- wouldn't that be incredibly offensive? Would anybody have a problem dismissing the prof for saying it?

I don't remember seeing the words "only if its not offensive" in the First Amendment.

I don't see speech codes in the First Amendment, either --- but colleges have those all over the place.

 

Colleges have some quite strict speech codes. Hell, look at the heat Larry Summers got for stating that it might not be a bad idea to study if genetic differences might explain why women are at the top levels of science disciplines at lower levels than men are. And he said that to OTHER professors and listed it as one possible explanation.

 

He has yet to stop apologizing for it because of all of the complaints.

When a prof is speaking in a class, the students will assume he's speaking the truth.

So if a professor says "I think this book is really good" in a literature class, does he legally have to be right?

When you're a history prof and state that something is the case --- yes, you need to be accurate. Accuracy should be somewhat important to professors.

Like I said, college age kids need to be exposed to different ideas, and hopefully they'll be smart enough to be able to figure out the difference between fact and opinion.

Except they're not. If a college kid uses a racial epithet at another student --- what happens to him/her?

 

They're disciplined.

 

Why?

 

Do you oppose speech codes, too?

Yes.

 

What if a professor of biology says he believes blacks to be inferior? Would you have no problem with that, even if he said "my opinion"?

    -=Mike

 

If I had a biology teacher that said that, I'd ask him why he thought that.

[Guest MikeSC]

What if a professor of biology says he believes blacks to be inferior? Would you have no problem with that, even if he said "my opinion"?

    -=Mike

 

If I had a biology teacher that said that, I'd ask him why he thought that.

Well, if you oppose free speech codes, then you're being consistent. Good.

 

If a bio prof tried to teach me something that was blatantly and obviously false, then I do think that the prof should be fired.

 

Professors have no business teaching falsehoods and lies.

-=Mike

[SuperJerk 0]

According to what I've read, what this guy is telling people were not lies.

 

They were really stupid conclusions based on moronic reasoning, but they were based on facts.

[Guest MikeSC]

According to what I've read, what this guy is telling people were not lies.

 

They were really stupid conclusions based on moronic reasoning, but they were based on facts.

Implying that there was no organizational Holocaust in Nazi Germany is a blatant and obvious lie. There are too many captured documents from the Nazis to even permit a different conclusion then that the Holocaust was a well-planned out operation from the highest levels of the Nazi regime.

-=Mike

[SuperJerk 0]

According to what I've read, what this guy is telling people were not lies.

 

They were really stupid conclusions based on moronic reasoning, but they were based on facts.

Implying that there was no organizational Holocaust in Nazi Germany is a blatant and obvious lie. There are too many captured documents from the Nazis to even permit a different conclusion then that the Holocaust was a well-planned out operation from the highest levels of the Nazi regime.

-=Mike

Absolutely. Saying the Holocaust in a history class, if he did in fact say it, is professionally incompetent enough to warrant termination.

 

But that's not what I'm discussing, though. I'm discussing whether or not he should be fired for bad-mouthing the people who died on 9/11. Bad-mouthing 9/11 victims is protected by free speech.

[Slayer 0]

In Germany it's a federal crime to deny the Holocaust

[SuperJerk 0]

Its also a crime to do the Nazi salute.

 

As I'm *sure* we all remember.

[Styles 0]

From FairAndBalancedLOL.com

 

Identity Issues?

 

Controversial University of Colorado Professor Ward Churchill (search), who compared victims of the 9/11 attacks to Nazis says he's "not backing up an inch," insisting, "I owe no one an apology." Speaking at his university last night, Churchill said he not only had the right, but "indeed the obligation" to make the comparison.

 

Meanwhile, questions are mounting about who Churchill actually is. He's built a career in part on his claimed Native American heritage (search), but a genealogical study by the Rocky Mountain News has found no Native American ancestors in his family.

 

And a fellow researcher has looked into questions about Churchill's claim -- in a book and other works -- that a deadly smallpox outbreak among Native Americans in the 19th Century was started by the U.S. Army. According to Lamar University Assistant professor Thomas Brown, none of the sources Churchill cites said anything of the kind.

 

And although most of you hate the guy, Oreilly did make a good point too:

 

As we mentioned last night, he wrote a book saying that Israel is perpetuating a Holocaust against the Palestinians, and that Hitler's government did not have an institutional plan to exterminate European Jews. Both those statements are false, provable, just like two plus two equals five is false.

 

If a math teacher put forth that equation, the math teacher would be fired. If an ethnic studies teacher denies the Third Reich had a policy of Jewish mass murder, that teacher has to go.

 

Seriously, Churchill needs to be fired for incompetence. The scariest part was the 1,000 students who came out to support him and cheer on his comments. That's downright scary. He has his right to free speech but that doesn't mean in his capacity as an educator of college students should he be allowed to perpetuate lies and hate speech (calling the victims of 9/11 Nazis for being stock brokers is pretty hateful speech to the families of the dead), combined with the allegations of fraud over his supposed ethnicity(which may have contributed to his tenure) and should clearly be enough to fire him for incompetence.

[SuperJerk 0]

I restate my official position:

 

I don't think he should be fired for comparing 9/11 victims to Nazis, because that's his opinion. I do think he should be fired for contradicting historical facts.

[Guest Smues]

Apparently my school had this guy booked to speak as well, but has since cancelled him. Would have been slightly interesting to hear him speak, in a trainwreck kind of way. We didn't cancel Ron Jeremy's appearance though!

I hadn't heard much talk about either of these guys appearances at my campus, other then Churchill being cancelled for security reasons. Then I read this weeks issue of the school paper. Half of the stupid thing was people defending Churchill and saying he shouldn't have ben cancelled, and people saying Ron Jeremy's appearance should be cancelled and it's wrong for him to come speak. So apparently free speech is absolute and applies to Churchill (he's an idiot but I agree he should be allowed to spew his bile) but it's not ok to be have a porn star come speak.

[Vern Gagne 0]

What is Ron Jeremy going to tell people. Even if your short fat guy, if you have a huge penis you can become famous?

[Jingus 0]

Better than telling people that the 9/11 victims deserved it.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

You conservatives have no idea just HOW mad you are at this guy.

 

 

Here is a link to a page with some mp3s of his speeches.

 

 

 

http://alternativetentacles.com/product.ph...osqYEO7bqaZa0Ml

 

 

 

http://alternativetentacles.com/product.ph...osqYEO7bqaZa0Ml

 

Enjoy. I guess.

[Dr. Tom 0]

I'm not OMG ENRAGED~! at the guy or anything. He's entitled to his opinion. I think it's 100% wrong, but he's entitled to it and he has the right to say it. However, denying documented events in history makes him incompetent to teach it, and there's no way Colorado taxpayers should have to pay the salary of an incompetent crackpot.