UFC 51: SUPER SATURDAY~!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

No, I mean 500k.

 

That's 500,000 buys. UFC on it's best day couldn't get half of that.

 

And as for Tito not fighting the "UFC style" right now, his style is pretty much the same as Randy's. Takedown, GNP, elbows, punches, etc.

 

I actually find Randy a bit less exciting than Tito.

 

Couture has much better stand up and takedowns. His match vs. Liddell was one of the best of the year. His fight against Vitor (I) and Rizzo were great as well. I'd rank any of those matches above any of Tito's.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

At this point Ortiz is pretty well established. I don't think you throw all of your marketing muscle behind him, but you atleast keep him around because he is easily your most over heel.

 

Lemme use the last PPV as an example. There were 2 title fights, one including Andrei Arlovski who is a much more exciting fighter than Tito. He lacks the language skills, but it would be better to not have him talk and have Frank Mir do all the talking for their feud. Why didn't they spend more time focusing on him? He could be a heavyweight star and his match with Mir could be a prospective draw if they put the time in it. But they won't and they didn't. The time was continually put into Ortiz and Belfort, both of whom aren't on the same level respectively in their division as Arlovski is. How about the Middleweight title match? Why wasn't Rich Franklin invovled? He beat Tanner, who is the new champ. Frankin is an exciting fighter, why aren't they putting time in him? Build towards the future, not rely on the past. This is a pro wrestling concept that can apply to MMA. They have to build new stars constantly, but instead they put their efforts in promoting Ortiz who has proven to be unreliable.

 

In Ortiz the UFC actually has an RVD who consistently draws their biggest crowds and 2nd largest ppv buys when they are strugling to pull 60,000 buys for incredible cards like UFC 49.

 

UFC 49 drew in the top 5 gates in the company's history. And even then, the two guys on top were both around in the early UFC years. They have to divide their time better, I understand the use of "draws", but if they aren't building stars with those draws, and rather, are spending more time focusing on the great celebs who are in attendence rather than hyping some key fighters. Realistically, with about 20 shows in Zuffa history, how many stars have they created?

 

You have to admit it makes sense to keep him especially with Pride talking about moving into the U.S. and any Pride card in the U.S. that is headlined by Tito Ortiz versus Silva, Rampage, Randelman, or Mirko just to give a few examples would be a definate sellout.

 

PRIDE has been talking about getting in the US for too long now. They've been talking about it for what, 5 years?

[Guest NCJ]

At this point Ortiz is pretty well established. I don't think you throw all of your marketing muscle behind him, but you atleast keep him around because he is easily your most over heel.

 

Lemme use the last PPV as an example. There were 2 title fights, one including Andrei Arlovski who is a much more exciting fighter than Tito. He lacks the language skills, but it would be better to not have him talk and have Frank Mir do all the talking for their feud. Why didn't they spend more time focusing on him? He could be a heavyweight star and his match with Mir could be a prospective draw if they put the time in it. But they won't and they didn't. The time was continually put into Ortiz and Belfort, both of whom aren't on the same level respectively in their division as Arlovski is. How about the Middleweight title match? Why wasn't Rich Franklin invovled? He beat Tanner, who is the new champ. Frankin is an exciting fighter, why aren't they putting time in him? Build towards the future, not rely on the past. This is a pro wrestling concept that can apply to MMA. They have to build new stars constantly, but instead they put their efforts in promoting Ortiz who has proven to be unreliable.

 

In Ortiz the UFC actually has an RVD who consistently draws their biggest crowds and 2nd largest ppv buys when they are strugling to pull 60,000 buys for incredible cards like UFC 49.

 

UFC 49 drew in the top 5 gates in the company's history. And even then, the two guys on top were both around in the early UFC years. They have to divide their time better, I understand the use of "draws", but if they aren't building stars with those draws, and rather, are spending more time focusing on the great celebs who are in attendence rather than hyping some key fighters. Realistically, with about 20 shows in Zuffa history, how many stars have they created?

 

You have to admit it makes sense to keep him especially with Pride talking about moving into the U.S. and any Pride card in the U.S. that is headlined by Tito Ortiz versus Silva, Rampage, Randelman, or Mirko just to give a few examples would be a definate sellout.

 

PRIDE has been talking about getting in the US for too long now. They've been talking about it for what, 5 years?

The second Belfort vs. Couture didn't even sell out, and that was with the matchup of Matt Hughes vs. Penn on the card. The reason the gate was so great for the rubber match was because of the controversy involved in the second fight. Ortiz has sold out the last 5 shows that he has ME'd. Plus his buy rates are always better than everyone not named Shamrock. I do agree with you that the UFC should put more into promoting other fighters. But to use another wrestling term if the WWE wants to really stasrt to push the Lightheavyweight division on Smackdown that would be great, but they would be crazy to not put a money match like JBL vs. Cena to do it. And if the Lightheavyweights never get pushed I wouldn't complain that JBL and Cena should be let go come contract time just to make the WWE create new stars. I would just suggest that they get their heads out of their asses and promote all aspects for the good of the show. I won't even get into the fact that the only divisions that have ever been able to draw good ppv numbers as the main event for the UFC have been the Lightheavyweights and the Heavyweights. As far as Pride goes one of the main reasons they haven't come to the U.S. is the lack of a big name star who could draw outside of the hardcore demographic. Ortiz is one of the few guys in all of North American MMA that can consistently be a big draw so I definately could see that as a reason to keep him.

[AboveAverage484 0]

No, I mean 500k.

 

That's 500,000 buys.  UFC on it's best day couldn't get half of that.

 

And as for Tito not fighting the "UFC style" right now, his style is pretty much the same as Randy's. Takedown, GNP, elbows, punches, etc.

 

I actually find Randy a bit less exciting than Tito.

 

Couture has much better stand up and takedowns.  His match vs. Liddell was one of the best of the year.  His fight against Vitor (I) and Rizzo were great as well.  I'd rank any of those matches above any of Tito's.

I think I'm in the majority when I say that Ortiz's matches against Belfort and Liddell were both better than Couture's matches with those respective fighters.

[cameron chaos 0]

I though Couture/Liddel was better than Tito/Liddel. if only because one was much more competitive and went past the first round.

 

All in all, a solid show. Buentello's KO was a highlight reel classic, Tanner's crazy hobo style smashed through Terell's technical subgame, Baroni is hopefully gone, Arlovski won in a quick and decisive manner and I look forward to when and if Mir and Arlovski hit the ground in their future fight. Ortiz vs Belfort was tense at times, boring at others. Tito does know how to keep his career afloat, that's for sure. I felt Belfort won, but hopefully he will come back from this more determined. Considering how up and down things have been for him (sister going missing, winning the title on a TKO, losing the belt in such a brutal fashion, losing in the judges eyes against Tito despite his best efforts) some time out may be what he needs. Irvin vs Kyle was a good KO but Kyle's attitude pisses me off. I was disappointed to see Karo/Lytle not on the PPV card but I guess I'll have to try get a hold of that some other way.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The second Belfort vs. Couture didn't even sell out, and that was with the matchup of Matt Hughes vs. Penn on the card. The reason the gate was so great for the rubber match was because of the controversy involved in the second fight.

 

I think the gate for Unfinished Business was due to Couture and Liddell being on the same card. Las Vegas loves them. Hughes vs. Penn was not a draw, and Matt Hughes isn't a draw. Zuffas White Boy Challenge against Hughes doesn't exactly build interest for the guy because there is nothing interesting about him, and there was nothing interesting about his opponents because Zuffa didn't promote them. Now, a Penn/Hughes rematch might do some respectable money if they do it right. "Didn't even sell out" gives the wrong impression, it did excellent business nevertheless. You are downplaying the success. I won't downplay Tito's _past_ success, he is the biggest draw in the past 10 years for the UFC, my point is about _the future_. You talk about RVD but Ortiz is much closer to a Hulk Hogan, and Hogan was both beneficial and damaging to WCW and the WWF.

 

Ortiz has sold out the last 5 shows that he has ME'd. Plus his buy rates are always better than everyone not named Shamrock. I do agree with you that the UFC should put more into promoting other fighters. But to use another wrestling term if the WWE wants to really stasrt to push the Lightheavyweight division on Smackdown that would be great, but they would be crazy to not put a money match like JBL vs. Cena to do it.

 

The UFC does, what, 5, 6 shows a year? Couture and Liddell would be on 2 shows, Tito 1 if they're lucky. Personally, I don't think the investment is worth it. He's damaged goods, he's not an exciting fighter when he's up against top talent, and he's a hassel to deal with. They can get good numbers out of Couture and Liddell, the _sport_ is on the rise, now is the time to focus on new blood.

 

And if the Lightheavyweights never get pushed I wouldn't complain that JBL and Cena should be let go come contract time just to make the WWE create new stars. I would just suggest that they get their heads out of their asses and promote all aspects for the good of the show. I won't even get into the fact that the only divisions that have ever been able to draw good ppv numbers as the main event for the UFC have been the Lightheavyweights and the Heavyweights.

 

It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. "No one else draws but Lightheavyweights and Heavyweights, so let's put all out time in marketing them." That ensures no one from the lower weight classes gets popular. Yves Edwards has gotten some great responses and what do they do? They cut the division. BJ Penn would have made for a much better champion than Hughes, and what do they do? They don't resign him and put the title back on Hughes. The Middleweight division was non-existent. How can these other divisions do something if they aren't given the chance? Getting rid of Tito would open some doors, plus for his paycheck you could get 3 good fighters.

 

As far as Pride goes one of the main reasons they haven't come to the U.S. is the lack of a big name star who could draw outside of the hardcore demographic. Ortiz is one of the few guys in all of North American MMA that can consistently be a big draw so I definately could see that as a reason to keep him.

 

PRIDE had Shamrock and Frye at one point and they still didn't come to America. It won't happen; they are doing well in Japan so why would they change now?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think I'm in the majority when I say that Ortiz's matches against Belfort and Liddell were both better than Couture's matches with those respective fighters.

Belfort/Ortiz was better than Couture/Belfort I? ARE YOU HIGH?!

 

Liddell vs. Ortiz was one boring-ass round and then a quick knockout. A great knockout, but that was the entire match. Couture/Liddell had some neat stand up and some awesome takedowns, and the story of Coutures comeback and Liddells inability to adapt was fantastic. That one fight made the division for the next 2 years.

[AboveAverage484 0]

I think I'm in the majority when I say that Ortiz's matches against Belfort and Liddell were both better than Couture's matches with those respective fighters.

Belfort/Ortiz was better than Couture/Belfort I? ARE YOU HIGH?!

 

Liddell vs. Ortiz was one boring-ass round and then a quick knockout. A great knockout, but that was the entire match. Couture/Liddell had some neat stand up and some awesome takedowns, and the story of Coutures comeback and Liddells inability to adapt was fantastic. That one fight made the division for the next 2 years.

I thought you were talking about their third match, their first match is fucking ancient history; and now that I think about it Randy/Chuck is just a little bit better than Tito/Chuck. Just a little.

[Quit Calling My Mama 0]

This was actually my first ever UFC PPV. I've heard tons about it in the past and know most of the guys by name but after finally seeing their shit....

 

 

Awesome.

 

I really enjoyed the show and will be ordering any future shows.

 

Sorry to steer a tad off topic but can anyone give me some good reccomendations for past shows/matches to get a better feel for the product?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

UFC 43, UFC 44, and UFC 49 are pretty easy to get on DVD, if you live in the right areas, and are all awesome. They also help add some perspective to UFC 51. If you can find UFC 40, get it too.

[Styles 0]

UFC 43, UFC 44, and UFC 49 are pretty easy to get on DVD, if you live in the right areas, and are all awesome.  They also help add some perspective to UFC 51.  If you can find UFC 40, get it too.

Am I correct that the national distribution only started with UFC 43? (Ironically the first MMA show I took a chance on and ordered). Because I've seen older UFC's like 40 on the web, but since they're not nationally distributed in stores, they'e like 35 or 40 bucks instead of 20...

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, you're right. But there's a place up here called Starstruck Entertainment which carries some good MMA stuff that aren't normally found on retail shelves, so it's possible for stores to carry them, you just have to find the right one.

[Guest Deft]

"Hey Juiceboy! Get the needle out of your ass."

 

The one line from Tito that I did laugh at.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

My favorite line from Ortiz was when he told Shamrock:

 

"Because I am Rick James, and you are my bitch."

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

"Hey Juiceboy! Get the needle out of your ass."

 

The one line from Tito that I did laugh at.

When was this?

 

There were a lot of stuff that had nothing to do with fighting that I liked, for instance, when Couture cheered on Evan or when Chuck called Tito a fucking pussy.

[Styles 0]

"Hey Juiceboy! Get the needle out of your ass."

 

The one line from Tito that I did laugh at.

When was this?

 

There were a lot of stuff that had nothing to do with fighting that I liked, for instance, when Couture cheered on Evan or when Chuck called Tito a fucking pussy.

He says it off mic, but the camera picks it up, its during their back and forth exchange.

My favorite part was when he seemingly went nuts and just left the Octagon and started running up the bleachers and no one had any idea what the hell was going on.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

What's with the cocaine/Chuck line? I don't get it. Unless you just wanted to throw Snowman somewhere in there.

 

Did anyone notice Mark Coleman in Baroni's corner? He was also in the audience at one point and they didn't point to him, like acknowledge him, probably because he's in PRIDE. I think the UFC HW division has devolved so much to the point that a guy from the old guard would wreck most people in it, or rather whoever the UFC decides to be in it, since it's like they have a revolving door with their divisions. Really, I think he'd kill Sylvia.

[Styles 0]

What's with the cocaine/Chuck line? I don't get it. Unless you just wanted to throw Snowman somewhere in there.

He just seemed a little tipsy. Like the exxagerated mannerisms while he was watching the fight and the way he jumped into the cage all pissed at his mention.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

What's with the cocaine/Chuck line? I don't get it. Unless you just wanted to throw Snowman somewhere in there.

 

Chuck is livin the lifestyle now.

 

... he's just new to it.