Is a new system needed to develop more talent?

[Guest Loss]

As you know, WWE has had a shortage of new stars over the last five years, which one could partially attribute to everyone who gets over having their legs cut out from under them, but the truth is that the system just isn't producing the amount of talent it should be. It's amazing to me that WWE has ONE training facility in OVW. They've talked about opening one more, but really, there should be training facilities all over the US.

 

I do worry about wrestling's future in the US, if only because there are few guys today that made their name by starting out in territories and going to Japan and Mexico before coming to WWE and working their way to the top. I see the quality of work slipping because the guys will only have the know-how to work whatever the WWE style is, and I can't see the current system producing another Chris Benoit.

 

On the flip side, you could argue that WWE is in the business of creating Hogans and Rocks, not Benoits, and you'd have a point, but they've even done a bad job there. In the past 20 years, we've had three huge stars to usher in new eras -- Hogan, Austin and Rock. There have been other names to get established along the way that do well when business is good and poor when business is bad, but those are the three that have truly changed the face of wrestling.

 

My suggestion? I'm of the mindset they should have 10-12 training facilities scattered all over the US. Set up small territories in those areas, run them on the cheap and let the guys hone their skills. Too many guys are brought up too soon and given huge pushes before they're ready for them, and they end up falling back down the card. Here are the cities I'd suggest:

 

Los Angeles

Tampa

Atlanta

Detroit

Minneapolis

St. Louis

Charlotte/Greensboro

Houston/Dallas/Ft Worth

Philadelphia

Memphis

Portland

Calgary

 

That's 12 cities they have to develop talent, which makes getting noticed by the company tougher, which means the motivation to work harder will be there, because there are no guarantees you'll be called up. Cycle the talent in from city-to-city so they can learn under as many different trainers as possible and to keep them from getting stale in one area, and if it takes 5-10 years for someone to be called up, I don't see how that's a problem.

 

If WWE is really serious about developing a relationship with NOAH, that's wonderful news. Send the guys over there to hone their talent and give them experience working in a different setting. Allow them to adjust to a grueling schedule. The idea is that the performers who get called up are as seasoned and experienced as they can be while still being young and healthy.

 

If WWE continues under their current model, they will eventually run out of new talent, and the talent the system does manage to produce will be incredibly limited.

 

When I say talent, I not only mean wrestlers, but I also mean announcers, referees and even writers. Hiring writers fresh out of high school or college who are wrestling fans and want to learn about the product would produce huge dividends, sending them to all the territories, making them study wrestling history and teaching them to respect the talent. If you have someone booking in one of your towns and all of the sudden, their house shows start booming, that's a good sign that he should be called up to the big stage as well.

 

That doesn't even get into the profit the territories would eventually run if they occasionally sent a top guy from WWE there for a well-hyped title defense. There are too many advantages, and it's possible to do it and keep overhead relatively low. This is the sort of thing WWE should probably be investing in more so than WWE Films.

[razazteca 0]

I'm surprised they don't put one in Kansas City since that is where they get all of their new announcers.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

Didn't they get THE COACH from Missouri?

[EricMM 0]

I think they're only looking for one thing tho: big tall wrestlers, over like 275 lbs, ripped.

 

There just *aren't* that many people that look like that. Not enough to build twelve feds.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

I'm not sure how you could say that OVW isn't getting results when in the last two years or so they have churned out Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Randy Orton, Rob Conway, Doug Basham, Danny Basham, Shelton Benjamin, Charlie Haas, Nick Dinsmore, Lance Cade (who's better than we've seen this far), Rene Dupree, Rico, Matt Morgan and Batista just to name a few. That's one of the most impressive classes I have ever seen and the future of WWE will surely have come through OVW.

 

I thought the HWA was doing an awesome job as well while it was around. The main problem isn't OVW in my opinion, they are doing everything they can, it's WWE calling guys up who Cornette knows are far from being ready.

 

Regardless of their level of training, some guys like Heidenreich and Snitksy just don't seem to have the capacity (mental or coordination) of being that good in the ring and I don't think two more years in developmental is going to change that. Sid spent his career in the main events and surrounded by the Horsemen and he never improved. Some guys just aren't cut out to be good wrestler.

 

10-12 developmental systems is not even close to ever being realistic. I think we would be lucky to see 3 with a focus on really good training, but I think it will eventually settle at 2. It's simply way too expensive to have any more for that, especially with WWE's requirement that each territory have television facilities to produce a weekly television show. The expense of a dozen territories would be immense, the quality would be watered down as the true talent (Cornette, Les Thatcher) would be spread too thin.

 

I don't think it's developmental's fault that a lot of these guys aren't going to become the next Chris Benoit. The landscape of wrestling has kind of prevented that. These young guys don't have world class opponents to work with, they have their fellow trainees to work with and don't work in Japan, Mexico or in workrate happy places like Stampede anymore. The closest thing is the ROH/JAPW guys who tour Japan, but for whatever reason WWE isn't high on them.

 

Quality of opponents to work with and learn from is THE most important thing when a wrestler is developing in my opinion. Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton and Batista all came in rough around the edges, but when they started working on the road with some world class opponents they pulled their game up bigtime. John Cena on the other hand hasn't had a quality opponent since last years Wrestlemania and net fans expect him to improve wrestling on the road every night with lugs like Rene Dupree, Kenzo and Jesus. Wrestling Hugh Morris in OVW doesn't make on Ricky Steamboat.

 

I think WWE's best bet is to keep on recruiting amateur standouts and a few shootfighters, because they pretty much always seem to excell in the ring. Angle, Lesnar, Benjamin, Haas, Dan Severn, Ken Shamrock etc. They all already have the work ethic and the drive to be the best, and all of them have come right out of the gates better than half of the wrestlers in the WWE.

 

It's funny though, I bet WWE could fund a developmental territory for an entire year with the amount of money they spend mindlessly destroying vehicles on Raw and Smackdown each week.

[Toxxic 0]

I'm not sure how you could say that OVW isn't getting results when in the last two years or so they have churned out Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Randy Orton, Rob Conway, Doug Basham, Danny Basham, Shelton Benjamin, Charlie Haas, Nick Dinsmore, Lance Cade (who's better than we've seen this far), Rene Dupree, Rico, Matt Morgan and Batista just to name a few. That's one of the most impressive classes I have ever seen and the future of WWE will surely have come through OVW.

Of those people you can honestly say that Lesnar, Cena and Batista have been runaway successes. Lesnar was BIG (as in main-event talent, not just size), and very talented for all his possible attitude problems. Cena's workrate is poor, but he gets the massive pops anyway. How long it'll last we don't know, but right now he's like a second Hogan, getting over on repetitive promos and signature spots and not much else. Batista is limited in the ring but was cheered even when he was meant to be booed, and his charisma is undeniable.

 

Randy Orton and Shelton Benjamin are so-so successful. Shelton looks great in the ring and always seems 'into' it, but his mic work isn't the best. He hasn't been helped by his injuries either. Orton was pushed HARD and has been reasonably successful, but never got the sort of response that Batista has been even after he won the World Title.

 

Dinsmore is a joke gimmick, and that'll only have so much legs on it. He does it well but sooner or later it's going to fade, and then he'll have been Eugene too long to be anything else.

 

Conway, the Bashams, Haas, Cade, Dupree, Rico (who isn't even in the WWE anymore, let's not forget) and Morgan - erm, what? Conway is trapped in gimmick jobber tag hell (and let's not pretend La Res would be anything other than jobbers if there wasn't such a dearth of teams), the Bashams have had their moments but are in a similar position of no-one caring even though they're the tag champs, Haas has been trapped with bad partners since Benjamin left and has NO charisma, unlike his former partner. Cade is beyond bad, Dupree is like a less successful heel Cena (a few spots is all he is - he lives off it well, but even the French Tickler can't last), Rico WAS FIRED and Matt Morgan was clearly unready. I don't care if these guys were better in OVW; I can easily believe they were, the point is that they've been misused, badly booked or have just flopped since. And these are the WWE's OWN GUYS. If they pushed them badly before, why will they change their push now? Orton, Batista, Cena - they were pushed (fairly) strong from the start, and are reaping the rewards now. Dupree and Morgan are the only guys I can see making any progress up the card, and I'm not sure about them.

[Guest Loss]

I'm not sure how you could say that OVW isn't getting results when in the last two years or so they have churned out Brock Lesnar,

Who currently has a lawsuit against the company.

 

John Cena

 

Who doesn't know how to work.

 

Randy Orton

 

Who has never figured out how to get heat.

 

Rob Conway

 

Who hasn't been used in anything important.

 

Doug Basham, Danny Basham

 

Who aren't over.

 

Shelton Benjamin

 

Who is a midcarder without direction.

 

Charlie Haas

 

Who's not being used.

 

Nick Dinsmore

 

Who has already run his course

 

Lance Cade (who's better than we've seen this far)

 

Are you sure about that?

 

Rene Dupree

 

Who can't work and has an attitude problem

 

Rico

 

Who was ready to quit the business until AJPW hired him

 

Matt Morgan

 

Who seemed to be Just Another Big Guy when he was on Smackdown

 

and Batista

 

Who admittedly will probably be a success for a while

 

just to name a few

 

Are they trying to produce guys who can work or guys who can talk? Because I haven't seen OVW do either, with Brock being the only one who's a good-great worker, as far as I've seen and only Cena being anything impressive on the mic.

 

That's one of the most impressive classes I have ever seen and the future of WWE will surely have come through OVW.

 

I think Stu Hart produced better workers. I think the old territory system produced more effective headliners. I don't think it's fair to blame OVW for the problem, but rather that they're relying on one territory to produce all of their future talent, and that's simply not enough.

 

I thought the HWA was doing an awesome job as well while it was around.

 

I'm ready for the system to produce an Austin, a Rock, a Hogan -- heck, even a Bret, a Shawn, an Undertaker, a Flair, a Foley, a Benoit. That hasn't really happened at all.

 

The main problem isn't OVW in my opinion, they are doing everything they can, it's WWE calling guys up who Cornette knows are far from being ready.

 

Agreed. There's too much of a rush to bring guys in.

 

Regardless of their level of training, some guys like Heidenreich and Snitksy just don't seem to have the capacity (mental or coordination) of being that good in the ring and I don't think two more years in developmental is going to change that. Sid spent his career in the main events and surrounded by the Horsemen and he never improved. Some guys just aren't cut out to be good wrestler.

 

And they probably shouldn't be. I would agree with you there, but that's a different argument.

 

10-12 developmental systems is not even close to ever being realistic.

 

The market would support it. Every city I named has supported wrestling in a big way in the past. They would support a good product now.

 

I think we would be lucky to see 3 with a focus on really good training, but I think it will eventually settle at 2. It's simply way too expensive to have any more for that, especially with WWE's requirement that each territory have television facilities to produce a weekly television show.

 

I don't think it would be a loss leader. I can't see how it would be any more expensive than pouring money into projects like WWE Films, a record label, a restaurant, a casino, a bodybuilding federation and a football league, all of which have failed or probably will fail.

 

The expense of a dozen territories would be immense, the quality would be watered down as the true talent (Cornette, Les Thatcher) would be spread too thin.

 

I don't see HHH, HBK, Benoit, Jericho, Flair, Regal or Angle being around in five years. I'm sure there are many wrestlers who'd love to be doing something (Ricky Morton and Bobby Eaton are the first to come to mind) that are sitting at home or just working the occasional indy show. I wouldn't move Cornette at all, actually, but I'd let Storm run the Canadian center, have Benoit help out in the Atlanta center and put the others wherever they'd like to go. I see HHH and HBK ending up in the front office, realistically, which might free up some of the road agents like Finlay and Steamboat to work wherever. If Steamboat ran a territory and training facility in Charlotte, he wouldn't even have to travel. Give Heyman a small one in Philadelphia. Yes, make your own jokes here.

 

 

I don't think it's developmental's fault that a lot of these guys aren't going to become the next Chris Benoit. The landscape of wrestling has kind of prevented that. These young guys don't have world class opponents to work with, they have their fellow trainees to work with and don't work in Japan, Mexico or in workrate happy places like Stampede anymore. The closest thing is the ROH/JAPW guys who tour Japan, but for whatever reason WWE isn't high on them.

 

Probably because they're mostly small guys.

 

Quality of opponents to work with and learn from is THE most important thing when a wrestler is developing in my opinion. Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton and Batista all came in rough around the edges, but when they started working on the road with some world class opponents they pulled their game up bigtime. John Cena on the other hand hasn't had a quality opponent since last years Wrestlemania and net fans expect him to improve wrestling on the road every night with lugs like Rene Dupree, Kenzo and Jesus. Wrestling Hugh Morris in OVW doesn't make on Ricky Steamboat.

 

I think WWE's best bet is to keep on recruiting amateur standouts and a few shootfighters, because they pretty much always seem to excell in the ring. Angle, Lesnar, Benjamin, Haas, Dan Severn, Ken Shamrock etc. They all already have the work ethic and the drive to be the best, and all of them have come right out of the gates better than half of the wrestlers in the WWE.

 

Agreed.

 

It's funny though, I bet WWE could fund a developmental territory for an entire year with the amount of money they spend mindlessly destroying vehicles on Raw and Smackdown each week.

 

I think it would be money well spent to start taping RAW. They'd save tons of money, no one would care that it was taped and they could fund a territory for a long time off of that.

 

I can't see it costing a fortune to rent out an old building and buy a few TVs and VCRs, along with a few wrestling rings. It would require some shifting in the business model, but honestly, the future of wrestling in 5-10 years is very scary.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I don't think it's the lack of available talent. It's the fact that WWE often doesn't do much with a lot of these guys after they get past OVW. Yeah, they are pushing Batista and Cena hard, but who else? It's not that there is a big lack of bodies in WWE, it's a lack of people getting a good, focused, push.

[Guest Fook_Theta]

If WWE is really serious...

Problem is anyone can logically look at things and see they're not serious. Even during the Monday Night Wars there were things they could have done and didn't. Only WCW brought in a large amount of workers that could work a variety of matches. Vince worked with ECW, and.. Well I don't think much of anyone else. Sure old US contacts, but I don't remember them reaching out to japan.

 

Sadly it looks like until someone really challenges Vince, he won't change. Even then he probably won't change drasticly, but just bring in 'just enough' talent to win over.

 

Edit: For example, I was downloading some videos in the General forum of old match ups, and someone posted a fairly technically-shitty match between Rocky Maivia in NOD where I think it was when he stole Stone Cold's belt. Anyway, Austin drove the truck down, beat on the NOD, and got in a fairly quick win to reclaim his belt. That belt? The intercontinental championship. That is how you build a solid program.

[Guest M. Harry Smilac]

I'm not sure how you could say that OVW isn't getting results when in the last two years or so they have churned out Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Randy Orton, Rob Conway, Doug Basham, Danny Basham, Shelton Benjamin, Charlie Haas, Nick Dinsmore, Lance Cade (who's better than we've seen this far), Rene Dupree, Rico, Matt Morgan and Batista just to name a few. That's one of the most impressive classes I have ever seen and the future of WWE will surely have come through OVW.

 

Quality of opponents to work with and learn from is THE most important thing when a wrestler is developing in my opinion. Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton and Batista all came in rough around the edges, but when they started working on the road with some world class opponents they pulled their game up bigtime. John Cena on the other hand hasn't had a quality opponent since last years Wrestlemania and net fans expect him to improve wrestling on the road every night with lugs like Rene Dupree, Kenzo and Jesus. Wrestling Hugh Morris in OVW doesn't make on Ricky Steamboat.

Note the bold.

 

In the first paragraph you say Rene Dupree is part of this elite graduating class and a few paragraph's later you blame Cena's sub-par workrate on Dupree as an opponent?????

 

 

 

How many ppl actually are wrestlers that approached OVW on their own?

I always see guys getting picked up from other indys and then sent there or ppl like Lesnar/Angle so it's not like OVW are producing great talent they just aren't properly preparing them and as always WWE hasn't a clue what to do with them even if they are.

 

And really when you think about how most ppl are picked up from other indy feds and such why should they invest money to create more places to prepare ppl?

Their's already more then enough indys to become seasoned in everything they won't learn in OVW and WWE doesn't have to spend a dime.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

I pretty much agree with everything you said Loss, and I think the WWE is more to blame than the developmental territories for what happened to a lot of the rookies that were called up.

 

Brock Lesnar: Ohio Valley trained Brock Lesnar from square one and helped turn him into a guy who came further in less time than anyone since Kurt Angle. The reason he is suing WWE is because they made the mistake of a pushing a smalltown kid who grew up on a farm and didn't even like professional wrestling until WWE recruited him into the top spot in the company without even bothering to see if he could actually handle the travel first. He tried, he even bought a plane in order to try to make it work for him, but he just wasn't cut out for it and that's pretty much WWE's fault for investing too much, too soon into him.

 

John Cena: John Cena is carrying Smackdown in a lot of marks eyes, pretty much the top merchandise seller in the company and the WWE's best chance at a breakout mainstream star by far, so to say that he has been anything less than a resounding success is smarky. His ringwork in UPW was really good I thought, and the few times he's fought quality opponents (Kurt Angle is the only one I can even remember) He's held his own. I have total confidence that he'll come around eventually, especially if he goes to Raw.

 

Randy Orton: Randy Orton can't get heat, but he's only been in the wrestling business for like five years and they are writing his character like a pussier version of the Z-man lately, which I'm pretty sure isn't the best way to go. He's gotten heat before as his short career has already had a few ups and downs, but I think

 

Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas are both WAY ahead of the curve when it comes to wrestling, and can talk alright sometimes (West Texas Rednecks parody comes to mind), but I'll give you that OVW could have done a better job with them on the mic. That's one thing that the HWA really excelled at, as they had regular promo classes as well as wrestling training and Batista has been particularly vocal about the lack of promo training in OVW.

 

The Bashams are Rob Conway are both INCREDIBLE on the mic and carried OVW to one of the most entertaining years I can remember any promotion having in recent memory, but WWE has turned them into a French sympathizer and a couple of S&M freaks in velvet pants. OVW turned out three of the most solid prospects WWE could ever ask for, and WWE cut them off at the knees with stupid gimmicks.

 

Rene Dupree: WWE called him up way too soon, and whatever attitude problem he allegedly has probably has a little to do with the fact that he's only like 21 years old and is probably a little immature. Another guy who had all of the tools, but was called up a year and a half too soon and saddled with a stupid gimmick.

 

Rico: Again, solid worker, decent talked who OVW did a lot for and was killed with a bad gimmick. He was ready to quit the business because he spent the twilight of his life in some small town training for the major leagues of wrestling, was given two stupid gimmicks that killed his career and fired.

 

Matt Morgan, again, is being done wonders with by OVW but WWE called him up when Meltzer was saying "In two years this guy will be can't miss, he's just that good", and he did ok but luckily WWE was smart enough to realize that he needed more time.

 

I think that if you don't even think that Lesnar, Cena and Orton are good products of the system, you are expecting too much from guys who are essentially still rookies in most cases. There is a big difference between working in front of 100 people in Louisville and 8,000 live at Raw. The reason the next Austin or Bret Hart or Hulk Hogan aren't coming out of OVW in my opinion is the fact that no amount of time in a controlled environment learning the "WWE style" can replace the years and years of experience the three wrestlers named above had in Calgary and Texas and Japan and the AWA and USWA etc. These guys had to learn to get over ANYWHERE if they wanted to get booked, and the kind of intangibles that they learned making crowds of all different cultures and languages respond to them just can't be taught in a barn in Louisville. Sadly, I think the death of the territorial system is going to really hurt the quality of wrestling in America until WWE starts taking a serious look at some good wrestlers like Samoa Joe and the American Dragon who have the size and the experience working all over the world to give WWE the things that the developmental system can't teach.

 

On top of this, I think WWE needs to dramatically change their philosophy when it comes to how the wrestlers are taught. The system is taking guys who had unique styles (Nova, Shannon Moore, even John Cena), stripping them of what made WWE take notice of them in the first place and turning them into generic wrestlers with a fraction of the moveset and far less distinguishable styles. They also need to stop having guys work a gimmick in OVW for two years, and then notice how good they are getting with it and bring them in with a completely different one and expect them to nail it. One bad gimmick can KILL a good wrestlers career as is the case with Rico, Simon Dean, Euguene and some others, so if WWE wants to protect it's future it needs to seriously tone down on this and think well ahead of time at what role they want the wrestler to play in the company when he's brought in so he can hone it for a year or so rather than working on an angle or character that's going to be flushed as soon as he's called up.

 

The entire system is a mess, but I don't think any developmental system can ever produce a Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels or Ric Flair. It takes years of experience to get the little things down and I don't think that can be done in a controlled environment.

[Guest Loss]

You do make a lot of great points and I agree with much of what you said. I just hope that there always will be world-traveled wrestlers who know how to present themselves as larger than life in the business, because I fear what will happen when there's no longer a way to groom them for that sort of thing. I think in some ways, we're already dangerously close to that happening.

[Fro 0]

You do make a lot of great points and I agree with much of what you said. I just hope that there always will be world-traveled wrestlers who know how to present themselves as larger than life in the business, because I fear what will happen when there's no longer a way to groom them for that sort of thing. I think in some ways, we're already dangerously close to that happening.

The problem is the hosses get called up too early, and the guys that can work get cut off at the knees. And guys who have no business being in WWE (Grenier, Heidenreich, etc get called up). Snitsky was only in OVW for a couple months. Morgan is pretty decent now and cuts fantastic promos.

 

Remember, Cena and Orton were super-vanilla babyfaces, and Batista was D-Von Dudley's flunkie a couple years ago. They've screwed up majorly with a lot of OVW guys. I've talked about Conway and the Bashams and how good their OVW stuff was.

 

Rico was seriously AS GOOD AS JERICHO on the mic in OVW and he never got beyond being a manager in WWE.

 

OVW is stocked full of guys who are too small for Vince to push as main eventers, but are over and would be good in Tag Teams. Instead, we get Chris Masters as a single who's going to majorly flop, instead of Albright/Masters who would be infinitely more interesting than La Resistance as tag champs. We get Mordecai and Tomko as singles who are terrible, instead of a tag team that makes them something of value.

 

They could probably use another system that would be a bigger promotion than OVW.

 

The real problem is lack of competition at this point. If a couple guys would leave WWE and go to TNA and vice-versa (and both companies were at similar levels), we wouldn't have this problem.

 

It's *extremely* rare to find a guy who can have the combination of wrestling ability, looks, charisma, political skills, and experience who can survive a couple years of being lost in the wilderness in WWE to become a main eventer.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Couple quick points:

 

1) You mention Rico's career was killed due to the gimmicks - Rico was probably as over as he ever was prior to being fired. At his age, he was never going to be given a big push, but he was able to make the gimmicks work, and get over in spite of them.

 

2) You mention HWA a couple times - IIRC, the only guys to make it out of HWA and onto the WWE roster are Charlie Haas and the WCW buy-outs, so I wouldn't exactly call HWA a breeding ground for WWE talent. They probably refined some of the guys, but they really didn't take anyone from scratch -> WWE ready.

[Dandy 0]

Didn't they get THE COACH from Missouri?

You are aware that Kansas City is in the stat of Missouri, right? The post above talked about the new announcers being from Kansas City.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Actually, Kansas City bleeds over into Kansas, so it would depend on what part of the city he was from.

[Dandy 0]

True, I just thought it was pretty funny.

[Sly 0]

Actually, Kansas City bleeds over into Kansas, so it would depend on what part of the city he was from.

Same as St. Louis bleeds over into Illinois... or East St. Louis, actually... which is better left un-associated with the nicer area on the Missouri side.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

2) You mention HWA a couple times - IIRC, the only guys to make it out of HWA and onto the WWE roster are Charlie Haas and the WCW buy-outs, so I wouldn't exactly call HWA a breeding ground for WWE talent.  They probably refined some of the guys, but they really didn't take anyone from scratch -> WWE ready.

HWA initially got a lot of the guys from the WCW buyout but they also started the training for guys like Charlie Haas, Rico (when he was working as "The Cobra"), Three Minute Warning, Lance Cade and Ron Waterman who I was a pretty big fan of. He wasn't great by any means, but he had an MMA background and had a lot better look and presence than most of the hosses WWE held on to. It's also where Jaime Knoble developed his "Redneck Messiah" act that he still uses. When WWE decided to scale down it's development and ditch HWA, most of the talent relocated to OVW. I think HWA did a lot better with Rico and Lance Cade than OVW ever did, and Mike Sanders and Les Thatcher booked some of the best television of the time in my opinion. You're right though, it wasn't nearly the factory for WWE that OVW turned out to be.

 

Les Thatcher really is a genius. He and Cornette can take a fraction of the talent and money that larger promotions posses and turn it into something way more entertaining simply by not making things too complicated and booking old school angles that don't involve dead bodies or generic foreigner gimmicks.

[Zack Malibu 0]

I completely echo the previous sentiment that OVW is perfect, but isn't used to it's fullest capability. Hell, some wrestlers make more on their contracts than OVW gets in a year, which is not a good sign for where you want tomorrow's stars to come from.

 

Not to mention Cornette himself will tell you they don't listen to him when he speaks. If that's the case, what's the point?

[EricMM 0]

I think it's telling that wrestlers aren't using the gimmicks OR movesets from OVW to WWE.

 

Why force someone to change drastically when you're hoping for them to make a big impact? Or at least change them a season BEFORE they get called up so that they get used to their mannerisms.

 

Quickly changed wrestlers are always (or almost always) weak in their new roles. See: Maven w/ his heelish dismissal of the fans when he poses. It's not natural, he's not used to it, even now.

[razazteca 0]

Fixing the development system would be nice but what happens when the talent ascend to WWE only to find out that the only thing "the office" cares about is the Main Event. La Resistence has gotten stale as tag team champions, Shelton is'nt doing anything special on tv other than fighting random wrestlers with no direction, and Simon Dean looks like a glorified manager gimmck do nothing in the ring.

 

Why is it that the new guys only get one of three gimmicks to work with 1)Anti-American 2)Gay 3)Mentally challenged.

[Zack Malibu 0]

Don't give them ideas, Raz. Now we'll get the Mentally Challenged Gay Anti-American. He'll be put over Jericho in no time.

[razazteca 0]

Hey, I thought that Heindreich was the Mentally Challenged Gay Anti-American!

 

1)weird accent 2)loves poetry 3) casket phobia

[EricMM 0]

I think it's because right now they don't *have* a Rock or SCSA to depend on. They feel like, as a company, they need that. Maybe if their uppercard was secure they'd focus on the midcard, but I really think that's foolish.

 

Wrestling is a show, not a two man act.

 

But I feel like they're just following Reaganomics, hoping the people on top's heat will trickle down to the midcard, somehow. Meanwhile, I feel like supporting the middle card will strengthen the entire fed. Um.

 

*Goes back to CE*

[Guest Fook_Theta]

middle card pimpage.

I'm convinced if they had to start booking a solid three hour show things would turn around within six months. That would hopefully be enough of a challenge that they'd start telling them "Just go out there and don't get hurt", and hopefully things would gel after a few months.

 

Ofcourse the first few months could look like pure shit.

[Toxxic 0]

I think the WWE is more to blame than the developmental territories for what happened to a lot of the rookies that were called up.

So do you concede that the wrestlers who were big money in OVW have, by and large, been failures in the WWE? Whether it's the wrestler's fault or not is by-the-by for the moment. Perhaps what we should be asking is not if we need a new developmental system, but whether we need a new approach to debuting talent.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

It's also where Jaime Knoble developed his "Redneck Messiah" act that he still uses.

Oh, I know. I got a ~6 hour tape of a bunch of his HWA stuff (along w/ a handful of WCW stuff, as well as both Knoble/London matches and Rey/Knoble from Velocity).

[Guest Trivia247]

WWE has some historical roots in the Mid Atlantic and DC area. perhaps they resettle there with a company or absorb a local fed and build it up.