JBL Reaches Modern Day Milestone

[Guest The Shadow Behind You]

I think he was saying there's no way a 44 year old pasty white backlund with a crazy old man gimmick would draw well even if it went longer then 3 days.

[Guest MikeSC]

I think he was saying there's no way a 44 year old pasty white backlund with a crazy old man gimmick would draw well even if it went longer then 3 days.

Hard to say, though. Backlund could have been a heat magnet with his crazy old man gimmick.

-=Mike

[Art Sandusky 0]

Oh man, I'd so plow Ashleigh Banfield.

[Enigma 0]

It's not Diesel's fault.

 

It was the booking team.

 

Diesel was crazy over as he broke away from Shawn and turned face.  They decided to try the "big dominating champion" run.  Was it successful?

 

I'd say "partly"...obviously he wasn't drawing huge, but was anyone then?

 

Tag team/midcard HBK HEEL as world champ?  Not ready.

Bret as World Champ?  Just DID that.  Obviously they decided to change things up.

Backlund drawing?  Uh...no.

Taker as champ then?  C'mon, Taker was a poor champion even when business was booming.

 

I understand your point.  Diesel's reign wasn't great.  But don't blame him like he was booking the title into his hands...now THAT would kill a company if Nash ever had the book and decided to put himself over the big stars...

UTSU, how can anybody say that Backlund as champ didn't draw, since he held the belt for, what, 3 days?

-=Mike

On the same token, I don't know how anyone could defend putting the belt on Diesel for being crazy over after turning on Shawn, because he won the belt only 3 days after he turned face.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

I think he was saying there's no way a 44 year old pasty white backlund with a crazy old man gimmick would draw well even if it went longer then 3 days.

Hard to say, though. Backlund could have been a heat magnet with his crazy old man gimmick.

-=Mike

He was getting tons of heat during his match with Bret Hart at Survivor Series 94. I thought he could've been a hell of a champion... then the Kliq stepped in.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

God did these people even WATCH WWF in 94?

 

Or do they just look at the title histories and assume people weren't over b/c they won the title days after an "official" face turn...

 

Diesel was a MONSTER in 94. Had great match with Ramon at SSlam where he was over huge. Dominated 94 Rumble, over huge. People actually were pissed when he won only by DQ at KOTR Vs. Bret. He single handedly eliminated some 4 wrestlers at Survivor Series. And they popped even harder for him finally not tolerated Shawn's bullshit superkicks hitting him in the face.

 

It'd be like Batista winning the World Title this MONDAY on Raw if he found out HHH was the limo driver at No Way Out somehow...

 

Batista is still a heel. Right now.

 

But we know what's going to happen.

[Promoter 0]

The wwe dropped the ball with Diesel by making him "corporate" and trying to use him like Hulk Hogan. The roster wasn't that great either. JBL's reign has a major problem with it in that he probably isn't seen as the #1 champion of wrestling, while Diesel could have in 1995 with Hogan's stale run as champ in wcw.

[humongous2002 0]

2 reasons why JBL will not ever get over as a WWE champion:

a) The Summerslam 2004 wave.

b) The No Way Out RVD chants.

[Enigma 0]

That completely random RVD chant was awesome.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

To be fair, JBL was working against Taker and Show.

 

Either HHH or JBL will retain at Mania.

 

Which one, I'm on the fence.

 

But if Batista wins and JBL retains, I'll be extremely happy.

[SuperJerk 0]

That completely random RVD chant was awesome.

Indeed.

[Fro 0]

I think he was saying there's no way a 44 year old pasty white backlund with a crazy old man gimmick would draw well even if it went longer then 3 days.

Hard to say, though. Backlund could have been a heat magnet with his crazy old man gimmick.

-=Mike

"Old" Backlund was quite a bit younger than Flair, Hogan, and Terry Funk's various reigns with the belt.

[cabbageboy 0]

I didn't see the PPV last night but what was up with this RVD chant I am hearing about? You're telling me the crowd literally just started chanting "RVD" during the main event for no particular reason?

 

ARE YOU LISTENING, VINCE?????

 

I personally never gave two shits about Nash during his entire WWF run in the 90s. He never had any personality beyond that of "big mean dude" to me. I was shocked he even GOT a title shot at Bret at KOTR, much less won by a DQ.

 

That said, his 95 run was a fiasco mainly due to who he was wrestling. Did he wrestle Shawn in a lengthy post WM feud? No. Bret, continuing that semi feud? No. UT? Nah. Even a vengeful Backlund, disgusted at losing the title after 3 days? Nope. Diesel fucked around with Sid (which I saw in person, dreadful match), fucking Mabel at SS, Bam Bam Bigelow after he jobbed to Lawrence Taylor, a heel turned British Bulldog who had never mained before (I remember REALLY hating them turning Bulldog heel..hell most people liked him better than Diesel anyway).

 

I don't think that the WWF ever had any legit confidence in Nash as champion. Aside from Shawn at WM (which didn't matter since Shawn turned face immediately afterwards) they never really put him over anyone credible. The disturbing aspect of this JBL thing is that they've actually jobbed people to him! Nearly everyone on SMDN aside from John Cena has jobbed to this clown, who still isn't over as a serious champion and never will be. I said it about 5 months ago, that it's a bad idea to job your roster out to a guy that has no shot at being taken seriously. It doesn't build that guy's heat, it just kills everyone else's.

[Damaramu 0]

JBL would beat Diesel's reign if he held the title until June 22nd, 2005. That would be 359 days.

 

For the record, I went to the trouble of calculating all the World Title reigns:

 

Triple H

-- December 15th, 2002 to September 21st, 2003 = 280 Days

Is that when he first got the belt? I remember that.....ugh....isn't that also where he should've jobbed it to Booker at WM but ended up not jobbing until way into the summer against Goldberg?

I've been out of wrestling for so long that my memory is fuzzy and the last few years are a blur.

[alfdogg 0]

b) The No Way Out RVD chants.

There was an RVD chant during the ME?

 

But I thought he couldn't connect with the fans???

[cabbageboy 0]

I remember when RVD first got to the WWF and was mega over the crowd used to bust out into "RVD" chants during random matches, like a Test match against whoever. Heh.

 

Regardless of how badly SMDN has used RVD since he was traded there, he was always an entertaining contributor. Take him off SMDN for a while and the list of people I actually would tune in to see shrinks considerably.

 

They really, really need to push him when he gets back from injury, provided he can do anything in the ring.

[SuperJerk 0]

Batista is still a heel. Right now.

Batista hasn't been a heel for some time. Given the fact he's only been westling heels lately and even ridiculed Evolution's antics during the J.R. Day segment.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

To be fair, JBL was working against Taker and Show.

 

Either HHH or JBL will retain at Mania.

 

Which one, I'm on the fence.

 

But if Batista wins and JBL retains, I'll be extremely happy.

Batista has to win. He's a monster and if he loses at Mania he will lose that mystique and never be able to get it back.

 

Cena doesn't. He could just as easily win it in a rematch at Judgement Day or Great American Bash. Actually in many ways it might be preferable, because winning in the undercard at Wrestlemania will mean less than if he wins it in the main event of a show, especially if Batista wins in the main event. He also hasn't had that much time to build a good feud with JBL yet. I think it is better to really screw Cena over here when he has the title won, and JBL gets away somehow and keep the blowoff til later. This is the one big feud on Smackdown, and nobody will care about any rematch as soon as Cena wins the belt. There is more money to be made here by pushing it back.

 

Part of the problem with Diesel's reign is that there were three far more popular wrestlers (Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart & Razor Ramon) stuck below him in the midcard. Bret & Shawn could have easily carried the company better at that point, and so could Hall if he was sober enough. He also had matches with both Shawn & Bret at the biggest two shows of the year in face/face matches, when the fans wanted the challengers to win. Forget Mabel, the reign was dead long before then. JBL's only real challengers were Eddy Guerrero (had his shot and couldn't handle the pressure), John Cena (not ready yet), Undertaker (pretty much a part-timer) & Kurt Angle (injured). RVD & Booker were nowhere near that level anymore. The only guy who I think might have had a shot to work was Rey Misterio, and there is no chance in hell that was ever going to happen. For much of the year JBL was carrying the show on his back. He isn't nearly as bad a champion as Diesel.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The problem is they can't keep booking JBL as a fluke champion for much longer, because they've already devalued the belt too much as it is, and I don't see them beating Cena clean either.

 

And at least Diesel won some title matches cleanly.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Diesel was a face. They win cleanly.

 

JBL is a heel. They cheat.

[Damaramu 0]

Diesel was a face. They win cleanly.

 

JBL is a heel. They cheat.

So? A heel needs to win cleanly every once in a while or else they look like a weakling.

Now they don't need to win convincingly ALL the time like HHH but they do need some clean victories.

[Enigma 0]

He's right. That's why historically, Chris Jericho was one of the weakest WWE Champions ever. I can't recall a match he ever won clean. He had to cheat to beat Maven. Back when Maven wrestled in track-pants.

 

And then, less than 7 days after losing the belt, he beat Matt Hardy clean on Smackdown. I really think they had it out for him.

[Promoter 0]

Yeah, people really saw HBK/Bret/Razor as the real champions in 1995. Again, in kayfabe land Bret Hart was screwed at Survivor Series and never got a rematch. Diesel gets the title shot out of nowhere(sounds familiar?). HBK was becoming very popular was well. Vince was just too stuck on creating another Monster champion like Hulk Hogan(you know how people say he was in the right place at the right time and that's why he was a success? why couldn't Diesel take off the same way with his super push then?).

 

As for Cena not winning at Mania 21, I think the wwe will only solidify Batista more as the top face. He already got his tail thrown out the Rumble by Batista. Faces are suppose to WIN at the big show unless they plan on turning Cena heel and JBL face(which Meltz did say Vince thinks is a good idea). Wasn't this the worry of some people last year with Benoit not winning when it MATTERS? JBL's last title squeak victory is bad as it is. Maybe Vince was right here and wanted Cena/JBL for SummerSlam. They will jeopardize Cena in any case because of the set up for Mania(imo he shouldn't even be going for the title).